Making Oil....Part II

[Marauderjack]

OK.....I don't understand!!

I checked the oil today and it appears to be a quart OVER FULL!! :dunno: I went to "Wally World" and got a spare quart and let some out to get it DOWN TO FULL!! The extra quart was to top it up if I over shot it but as fate would have it I stopped just at the FULL hole in the stick!! ;)

I poured what I took out in a marked jug and it is slightly over a quart....What gives?? :censor: I made absolutely sure it was at FULL when I changed it....actually it was about 1/8" above FULL but after 3K miles it is A QUART OVER FULL??? :dunno:

Ideas anyone?? BTW, it does not smell of gas so I don't believe dilution is the culprit!! Also, I am at the exact same spot in the driveway everytime I check/change it?? :cool4:

I'm at a loss!!

Marauderjack :dunno:

[Fourth Horseman]

I don't know, but if you don't cut production soon OPEC is going to be very cross with you. :)

[sdupuis]

OK.....I don't understand!!

I checked the oil today and it appears to be a quart OVER FULL!! :dunno: I went to "Wally World" and got a spare quart and let some out to get it DOWN TO FULL!! The extra quart was to top it up if I over shot it but as fate would have it I stopped just at the FULL hole in the stick!! ;)

I poured what I took out in a marked jug and it is slightly over a quart....What gives?? :censor: I made absolutely sure it was at FULL when I changed it....actually it was about 1/8" above FULL but after 3K miles it is A QUART OVER FULL??? :dunno:

Ideas anyone?? BTW, it does not smell of gas so I don't believe dilution is the culprit!! Also, I am at the exact same spot in the driveway everytime I check/change it?? :cool4:

I'm at a loss!!

Marauderjack :dunno:
Got me. It seems that all my Fords thru the years, haven't changed the oil in the Marauder yet (14 days and 563 miles old), are not very accurate in regards to how much oil goes in the sump. I, like you, always change and check the oil at the same spot in my driveway, yet sometimes I need to add 1/2 qt, sometimes it's 1/4 and yet often it's 3/4 qts more than the "advertised" amount. Same procedure everytime?!?!?!?!? Beats me! Hopefully, someone will chime in with a rational explanation.

Steve

[SilverStreak]

My '04 shows full with 5 and 1/2 quarts and a FL820S Motorcraft filter. Of course the dipstick reads 1/2" higher on one side than the other.:dunno:




OK.....I don't understand!!

I checked the oil today and it appears to be a quart OVER FULL!! :dunno: I went to "Wally World" and got a spare quart and let some out to get it DOWN TO FULL!! The extra quart was to top it up if I over shot it but as fate would have it I stopped just at the FULL hole in the stick!! ;)

I poured what I took out in a marked jug and it is slightly over a quart....What gives?? :censor: I made absolutely sure it was at FULL when I changed it....actually it was about 1/8" above FULL but after 3K miles it is A QUART OVER FULL??? :dunno:

Ideas anyone?? BTW, it does not smell of gas so I don't believe dilution is the culprit!! Also, I am at the exact same spot in the driveway everytime I check/change it?? :cool4:

I'm at a loss!!

Marauderjack :dunno:

[Marauderjack]

I know.....If we could figure out WHY maybe we could force it to make enough to suppy others with oil!! :burnout: :burnout:

Imagine if all of us made 5 quarts a month.....We could become INDEPENDENT!! :woohoo: :woohoo:

Come on...Let's figure this thing out!! :sunshine:

Marauderjack :banana2:

[RF Overlord]

Damn, jack, you come up with some good ones...

There are only a few ways (that I know of) for a motor to make oil:

1. Fuel dilution...running way rich, but you say you don't smell any fuel, and I believe you'd notice your power down, or black smoke from the tailpipes, etc, if this were the case.

2. Coolant dilution...if you're not losing coolant and the oil isn't a sort of milky brown, then that's probably not it.

3. Overfilling...but you do your own changes and it sounds like you've been careful about the levels. Are you sure no one else has used the car and "topped off" the oil after checking it incorrectly?

IMHO, you should get your oil analysed pronto to see if there's anything unpleasant going on. Check out Blackstone Labs (www.blackstone-labs.com)...they'll send you a free sample collection kit and detailed instructions. It's only $20 (plus $1.52 postage) for peace of mind. I sent my last sample to them on a Monday, and the results were in my inbox on Friday morning. I highly recommend them.

*NOTE* Edited to correct link URL...

[cyclone03]

OIL TEMP.?

I only check mine when cold before driving.
I'm lieing,I change it,add 6qrts,then 3000 mile later I drain it then start over.
Thats a lie too,I going 4000 miles this time, 2800miles where all highway.

[hbarrett]

I recently had my oil changed (1st time) by a Ford dealer. They informed me that the change actually required 7 quarts with filter change. The manual claims the change with filter change to be 6 quarts. Did they add too much oil to my crankcase? The service manager claimed that the manuals are generic, and that the aluminum block 4.6L takes an extra quart. He claimsedthat this is true with the Aviator as well.
I checked the oil today and it appears to be a quart OVER FULL!! :dunno: I went to "Wally World" and got a spare quart and let some out to get it DOWN TO FULL!! The extra quart was to top it up if I over shot it but as fate would have it I stopped just at the FULL hole in the stick!! ;)

I poured what I took out in a marked jug and it is slightly over a quart....What gives?? :censor: I made absolutely sure it was at FULL when I changed it....actually it was about 1/8" above FULL but after 3K miles it is A QUART OVER FULL??? :dunno:

Ideas anyone?? BTW, it does not smell of gas so I don't believe dilution is the culprit!! Also, I am at the exact same spot in the driveway everytime I check/change it?? :cool4:

I'm at a loss!!

Marauderjack :dunno:[/QUOTE]

[Marauderjack]

RF...

The oil is clean and clear......just a little dark!! I may send a sample for analysis to see if I'm missing something??

I originally thought the sump got way smaller in volume as it got over full but an inch over FULL represents right at a quart!! :grad:

There are only two other people that have driven my car....Dennis Reinhart and one of his employees...Lonnie!!?? That was several oil changes back!! :cowboy:

I'm stumped!! :bop:

Marauderjack :rasta:

[Racerx88]

.........Also, I am at the exact same spot in the driveway everytime I check/change it?? Marauderjack

It won't matter if you're in the same spot everytime, but you MUST be at a level spot each time. If the car is not level from side to side and front to back, you'll never get an accurate reading.

Other things that could affect the reading are the temperature of the oil, how long it's been sitting since the engine was shut off and how much time has it had to drain back into the pan. Also make sure the dipstick is fully seated each time.

[RF Overlord]

Did they add too much oil to my crankcase? The service manager claimed that the manuals are generic, and that the aluminum block 4.6L takes an extra quart.

Yes, they did. I don't know of anyone on the board who puts 7 quarts of oil in their MM. Mine takes just slightly under 6 when I change it; after it's run a few times, it takes the last ¼ of a quart, then it stays right on the Full mark for 5,000 miles...unless that service manager thinks the dipsticks in our engines are indexed wrong, too... :turkey:

[Bradley G]

i think racerx88 hit it, even hot it seems to take several minutes for the oil to give a correct reading on the stick.

[rumble]

If indeed your oil level is actually going up the only possible explanation is fuel dilution. That is assuming your coolant level is not going down.
A quick "down and dirty" check for fuel contamination is to take a cigarette
lighter and hold the flame on the oily end of the removed dipstick. If it burns
fairly readily then you definitely have gasoline in your oil. If it doesn't burn
then an oil analyses as mentioned earlier is the only way to go. Fuel dilution
is a engine killer.

[Marauderjack]

Come on guys...Give me a little credit here!! :blah:

I have had dozens of cars many boats and have changed my own oil and built engines for 43+ years and I have tried it all......hot, cold, level, unlevel and the damn thing is still way OVER FULL!! :soap:

This has never happened in any vehicle I have had......That's why I thought I'd run it by y'all!!

3200 miles ago it checked at 1/8" above the full hole in the stick and now it is a full inch or more above.......Don't make sense?? :dunno:

Does Mobil I "swell up" with use?? My Cobra replica uses some oil and that is to be expected.......about a quart in 1500 miles......not bad for a 408W stroker and probably good for how it is driven?? :cool4:

I'm not worried about the MM!! It has never missed a beat and runs great....It just seems to be making oil and I don't particularly like it to be that far over full!!?? :dunno:

Marauderjack ;)

[deerejoe]

Come on guys...Give me a little credit here!! :blah:

I have had dozens of cars many boats and have changed my own oil and built engines for 43+ years and I have tried it all......hot, cold, level, unlevel and the damn thing is still way OVER FULL!! :soap:

This has never happened in any vehicle I have had......That's why I thought I'd run it by y'all!!

3200 miles ago it checked at 1/8" above the full hole in the stick and now it is a full inch or more above.......Don't make sense?? :dunno:

Marauderjack ;)



Just an idea...check the sleeve the dipstick goes into...if the sleeve is loose at the base the dipstick could raise it and lower it each time you pull/insert the dipstick.

[GordonB]

Hi all,
Just my 2 cents worth.
Be sure to allow 20 to 30 mins. time for oil drainback before doing any oil checking. Some manuals say this some don't. I haven't heard anyone talk about the time allowance for drainback.

GordonB

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Thermal Expansion. Oil is indeed subject to thermal expansion and this is what is causing your apparent high reading.

Here is my suggestion to prove or disprove this theory. Park the car (hot) in the garage (or any flat surface) in the evening. Allow 5-10 mins for the oil to drain down to the sump, and check it. Check it again 12 or so hours later when it is dead cold. The cold reading will be slightly lower.

Don

[Marauderjack]

Hey Don.....

I agree with what you are saying and there should be a slight difference after cool down. I checked it HOT and it was 1" above full...Let it cool down 2-3 hours so I wouldn't burn my hands letting some out and it was still 1" over full?? Oh Yes....The dipstick is face up all the time. :depress:

I'm gonna drive it another 1K miles and check it again....Also get a sample analyzed.....See what may be in it?? :nono:

Marauderjack :cool:

[RF Overlord]

I'm gonna drive it another 1K miles and check it again....Also get a sample analyzed.....See what may be in it??

jack:

Sounds like you are definitely trying to cover all bases here...the only other comment I can add is to perhaps check your oil-changing procedure. If I added all 5 quarts to my '94 T-bird, it would read right on full immediately after an oil change, but after the car had been through a couple of driving cycles, it would be over-full, though not by as much as yours. So I took to adding 4½ quarts up front, then checking it again the following weekend and topping off if necessary...dunno if this will help, it's just the only other thing I can think of...

Except this...you ARE only adding 6 quarts, not 7, right?...

BTW, good decision on the analysis. Even if (hopefully) nothing is unusual, now you'll have a baseline if you decide to do any further analyses down the road...

[Mike Poore]

I know.....If we could figure out WHY maybe we could force it to make enough to suppy others with oil!! :burnout: :burnout:

Imagine if all of us made 5 quarts a month.....We could become INDEPENDENT!! :woohoo: :woohoo:

Come on...Let's figure this thing out!! :sunshine:

Marauderjack :banana2:
Ok, try this one out. Do these cars have oil/transmission coolers? If so, do they share a common cooler and or plumbing? Is there any way transmission fluid could be crossing over and contaminating the oil through a leak in the plumbing? Since the transmission operates at higher pressures the leak would only be going one way. I know it sounds crazy, but check the trans fluid level and see if it's down a quart or so. I can't believe you don't know how to check the oil level properly.

[Marauderjack]

RF & Mike....

Thanks for your input!! Last change I put 5 quarts in and started the engine to fill the filter. I let it sit about 20 minutes and the stick was at the low mark so I added 1/2 quart and let it sit......Over an hour or so I "Snuk Up" on the full mark and after sitting over night it read 1/8" over the full mark. :soap:

After driving to Charlotte and back it was up a little more but not much....Later it was up 1/4" then after 3K miles at about 1" over full!! Yesterday I dropped slightly more than a quart out....as measured in a Mobil I 5 quart plastic jug....and it is a hair under the hole in the stick at the "Full" point. :cool4:

As far as gas dilution.....I don't really think so since we have a pretty efficient PCV system and if that much gas was getting by the rings my mileage should suffer....Right now I'm getting 22-23 MPG on the highway and 19-20 MPG average town & country?? :dunno:

Stumped!! :censor:

Marauderjack :cool4:

[Mike Poore]

RF & Mike....

Thanks for your input!! Last change I put 5 quarts in and started the engine to fill the filter. I let it sit about 20 minutes and the stick was at the low mark so I added 1/2 quart and let it sit......Over an hour or so I "Snuk Up" on the full mark and after sitting over night it read 1/8" over the full mark. :soap:

After driving to Charlotte and back it was up a little more but not much....Later it was up 1/4" then after 3K miles at about 1" over full!! Yesterday I dropped slightly more than a quart out....as measured in a Mobil I 5 quart plastic jug....and it is a hair under the hole in the stick at the "Full" point. :cool4:

As far as gas dilution.....I don't really think so since we have a pretty efficient PCV system and if that much gas was getting by the rings my mileage should suffer....Right now I'm getting 22-23 MPG on the highway and 19-20 MPG average town & country?? :dunno:

Stumped!! :censor:

Marauderjack :cool4:
Hey, Jack, when I said I couldn’t believe you don't know how to check the oil, I meant, that cause should be ruled out, since it's hard to account for that much oil. Hopefully you didn't take it the wrong way. I agree with you that there's another fluid being added from some source. Surely, if it's water you're gonna know right away, especially if it's that much, and it's doubtful that it's gas unless you just can't smell. I'm interested in comments from the other guys about my trans fluid theory. Please be gentle, guys because it's, most likely, stupid as hell.

[Marauderjack]

OK....

I changed the oil today and so far I have added 5 quarts and 20 ounces. I'm going to let it sit and see exactly where the oil is on the stick...after 15 minutes it is just above above half way between "Full" and "ADD".

I think I'll leave it there for now and see what it does in about 1000 miles!! :drive:

Stay Tuned....

Marauderjack :beer:

[Mike Poore]

OK....

I changed the oil today and so far I have added 5 quarts and 20 ounces. I'm going to let it sit and see exactly where the oil is on the stick...after 15 minutes it is just above above half way between "Full" and "ADD".

I think I'll leave it there for now and see what it does in about 1000 miles!! :drive:

Stay Tuned....

Marauderjack :beer:Did you send a sample of the stuff you drained to the testing guys ?

[BillyGman]

My guess is coolant in the oil due to head gasket failure. Perhaps if you have a small amount of coolant in the oil, it will not look milky on the dipstick. But you probably would see a trail of white smoke coming out of your tailpipes when you hit the go pedal if there's coolant in the oil. Especially when it's cold.

But here's another twist to this Marauder oil confusion. The oil level on my dipstick was down one quart, so I was a bit concerned. I decided to change the oil and filter, and the thing took the entire 6 quarts, and it was still down one quart!! I've yet to figure this one out, and I really don't know whether to keep 6 quarts in there, or add a 7th. So I've been splitting the difference by keeping 6.5 quarts in there to keep the level only a half quart low on the dipstick. I don't know what else to do since two different dealers told me that the oil capacity is infact 6 quarts!!!

I thought it might have been due to the dipstick tube working it's way out of the block, because I had a wrestling match w/it to get it back in during the Kooks headers installation. But I was quite surprised when I crawled under there, and saw that the dipstick tube flange was seated firmly in the block, and it hadn't moved. I'm not intending to hijack this thread, but I thought this is actually somehow related. I'm beginning to wonder if there could be something falling into the oil pan that could displace enough oil to change the level by one quart as indicated on the dipstick. But I have no idea as to what that would be. I'm hoping that sharing my dilemma might help to get to the bottom of this Marauder mystery oil thing. :dunno:

[SergntMac]

Any chance some of us got dipsticks for the 2V engine? Would that make any difference?

[BillyGman]

Any chance some of us got dipsticks for the 2V engine? Would that make any difference?I suppose it would if the tube itself was a different length. Or perhaps if the oil pans on the Marauders are of a different capacity than on the CV's, and they're therefore a 1/2" deeper, then I guess they would require a different dipstick, yes. And in that case, then perhaps having a dipstick for a CV when they're not interchangeable w/that of Marauders, would cause a wrong reading. Very interesting MAC.

I suppose that can be an explaination for my dilemma, although not one for MarauderJack's dilemma.

[SergntMac]

Did a little investigating today, just to see what I would find.

My dipstick is part @ 3W3Z-6750-AZ, a two piece dipstick.

Condition 1: Engine cold, parked overnight. Check oil, it appears over full by one and one-half times that of the checkerboard area on the stick.

Condition 2: Start engine and let idle for 5 minutes. Check oil with engine running. It's empty? No oil on dipstick at all.

Condition 3: Shut engine off, let sit for 5 minutes. Check oil, it's right on the full mark.

Checked with S/M and wrench at my dealer, oil should be checked on a warm engine with a few minutes for it to drain down after shut off.

Hope this helps...

[Marauderjack]

After 500+ miles the oil is at about the same point as when I changed it....after 5 minutes drainback....warm. After sitting over night it is right at the "FULL" mark. :blah: I added 5 quarts and an additional 20 ounces to get here.

I'm gonna leave it this way and see how it looks in a few weeks??

BTW, There is no coolant in the oil since it is clean and clear!! I have a sample of the old stuff being looked at by a lab....stay tuned!! :dunno:

Marauderjack :coolman: