MM Winter driving

[Eric91Z]

OK, I am currently researching for a "new" vehicle to replace my 12 year old Honda Accord with 263,000 miles on it for a daily driver. I want something with more room and 4 doors to fit the family in, I would like something with a V8 and rear wheel drive, preferably with traction control, and of course good looks.

In today's market, for me, that narrows it down to a MM or CV LX Sport. Now, I think I could live with the LX Sport as it is a little cheaper than the MM used, but I would always want more in the horsepower field - I am sure.

My biggest concern comes down to winter driving and just plain old using the MM for a daily driver and putting that many miles on it. I know cars are meant to be driven and that is what I would do. But how about some input on the MM in the winter? Iowa can get it's share of snow and ice and I commute about 80-90 miles per day (400+ per week) and that concerns me some with a MM/CV in the winter, although I have spent 95% of my driving time driving rear wheel drive cars year round.

Just curious on input for driving the MM in the winter. I would, of course, go with a winter wheel/tire package from Tire Rack or Discount Tire Direct with dedicated snow tires (plus, save the MM factory wheels). So how do they do? And with the air ride rear springs, how do they handle added weight in the back (ie: sand bags)? Or is it even needed with the TC and dedicated winter tires (Blizzak or similiar)?

Any and all input would be appreciated. Also, to those of you that do currently own or have owned the MM, I am envious and hope some day to join your ranks.

[rayjay]

I bought my MM with full intent of it being a daily driver year round. I have driven CVs with traction control for years in the winter at work and have been able to get around ok. In our county we receive 200+ inches of snow per winter along with the below zero temps and ice. I purchased a winter tire/wheel package from the TireRack. $472 delivered. I went with Firestones WinterForce tires as they have an aggressive tread design for snow. I work nights and the plows are off the road 1/2 hour before I leave for work. I have no interest in performance driving in the winter, it ain't gona happen where I live. Snow can start as early as 02 October and end in May. We received 3" of snow on 20 May 2003, I remember it well because I was stuck out in it for a detail...

[QWK SVT]

Is there any chance of getting 15" wheels on this car? I have a set of blizzaks (approx. same height), off my old Cougar, with less than 2500 miles. It'd be really nice if i could slap them on, come winter time. I have a feeling I'm gonna have to sell them, though...

[Logan]

Ack! We're already talking about winter again?

[Joe Walsh]

Is there any chance of getting 15" wheels on this car? I have a set of blizzaks (approx. same height), off my old Cougar, with less than 2500 miles. It'd be really nice if i could slap them on, come winter time. I have a feeling I'm gonna have to sell them, though...

I doubt that the 15" rims would clear the brake calipers....but there is only one way to tell for sure.

[TripleTransAm]

Hey Eric,
Small world. I remember your name from the F-body mailing list(s). I don't see the Z in your sig, do you still have it?

Given the choice between the two, the answer is hands-down the Marauder. It really does inject a megawatt or two of excitement into the Panther line. For the price difference, I think you'd be regretting the choice of the LX Sport, especially given your performance background.

About winter driving... I'll know for sure in a few months. We get our share of snow up here but it's usually cleared fairly quick (especially easy for me considering the highway driving that I do). I have traction control on my car, so the choice of tires is more restrictive... I have to maintain the front/rear size ratio in order for the TC system not to freak out and think I'm spinning. So that limits the choice of tires somewhat.

[Eric91Z]

Thanks for the replies, all. This is making it easier and easier to want to get the Marauder over the CV. Besides, if I went with the CV, I would wanting to do an AED supercharger, exhaust, gears, etc anyway. I would be better off from a performance stand point to start with the Marauder. Besides, that is another reason I want to get rid of my Accord - lack of power and to expensive to try and make fast.

Steve, I no longer have any F-Bodies. In the year after getting married, I sold my F-Body, sold my Triumph motorcycle, got rid of my 4x4 truck, and decided to try and get back in the IT field after being out of it for 6 years. Just trying to work my way back up the ladder and start making some money again to get my toys back and have some fun.

I was also looking at the new Chrysler 300C and Dodge Magnum RT with the Hemi, but the lack of performance upgrades, lack of reliability track record, and slight concern with Dodge/Chrysler build quility had me concerned. I really need something that will be reliable with the proper maintenance. So here I am back looking at the Ford/Mercury offerings and I really like the Marauder.

[cyclone03]

Ack! We're already talking about winter again?

Don't worry 'bout it Logan.Austin gets about 2 days a year with Ice,they just closed down the city,it's great.

[Fourth Horseman]

We don't get very bad winters here in Utah, so maybe my attitude would be different if I lived somewhere else. However, I've been through two winters with my '03 now (no traction control) and had absolutely no problems. Do I have to be careful? Sure. But I'd be careful if I had a 4x4, too. Last winter we only had one really bad day, where I ventured into work before the snow plows had a chance to catch up. On my way I passed all manner of vehicles that had slid off the road, front-wheel and four-wheel drive vehicles included. The Marauder and I just kept it nice and easy and made it there and back with no issues.

In my opinion it comes down more to the driver than the vehicle.

My two cents, for what they're worth.

[Bigdogjim]

I know a very valid question was asked.

I just need to remind everyone now and again it not you per se but, the OTHER guy you need to worry about.

Just keep that in mind:)

As a "professional driver" for 20 years + I would rather drive in snow than rain:mad:

Most people show no respect in the rain as opposed to snow :twocents:

My Marauder is NOT my every day ride! I have a Ford F-150 to beat up:)

[BillyGman]

You can get a new Marauder now forless than some of the CV's out there as lomg as you find a dealer w/atleast a few of them on their lot. There's a lot of people buying the Marauders for $26k now and there's even a couple of people who have bought them for a mere $24K (new). So I don't see any reason for you to choose the CV over the Marauder now.


As far as winter driving, I drive mine in the snow w/four 16" Michelin Arctic Alpine snow tires, and the car goes as good in the snow as wrong-wheel drive cars do. Infact, I went up a snow covered hill last winter and right around a front wheel drive car that was stuck. Those tires make a major differnce even before the roads are plowed (atleast in up to 12" of snow). I drove up every hill I can find just to put them to the teat, and they came out shining.

[Eric91Z]

Billy,

Have you driven the MM in the snow with the Trilogy SC on there? Just wondering if it made slippage any harder to deal with.

Yes, I know bad weather driving can be driving with about anything if you are careful, use your head, and know your vehicle. This winter will be my first winter out of the last 4 without 4 wheel drive. I think I kind of got spoiled. Did I think the 4 wheel drive helped on ice, no. But I know that a 4800 pound 4x4 full size truck with 33" ProComp X-Terrians will go through a foot or 2 of snow without any problems. I guess I just think back to what that truck was like in 2 wheel drive and it would go no where.

Then I think about the 6 F-Bodies (3 2nd Gens, 2 3rd Gens, and 1 4th Gen) that I drove in Iowa and Colorado winters and only got stuck one time and that was backing in to an unplowed parking lot and stopping movement. Shoot, my 4th Gen with regualr M&S tires when through a 16 inches in 4 hours snow storm in Colorado without a problem. Plus, rear wheel driver can be a little funner in the snow. I guess I just get a little concerned with my daily commute to work, especially since I am on the road each morning by 5:45am. Oh well, just being paranoid. My current schedule could very well change by the time I get a replacement car any way.

OK, enough rambling. I do appreciate everyone's input so far. It makes me feel better that the MM is what I want to get, that it can be driven in the winter successfully, and it is OK for a daily driver and to put miles on it. Besides, I am so anal about my cars, usually the only way you can tell the miles is by looking at the odometer. My current Accord is a perfect example. Except for a worn floor mat, 4 door dings, and some rock chips on the front, the car almost looks like it just came off the lot. Hope the MM will hold up that well.

[Mike Poore]

Welcome Eric. I went looking for a Crown Vic Sport and ended up with the Marauder, because of the discounts ~ 10K. That made it a better deal than the CV, not to mention all the extra stuff which makes it a hell of a bargain. There's lots of them at various dealers, but if you want one, you'd better get cracking, as this is the last year of production. The 04's have traction control.

[Eric91Z]

Thanks for the input. I would love to buy new right now and that prices are good right from the dealer, but I have yet to find a dealer within a 100 mile radius here in central Iowa that has a black MM. There is one near by with a silver one, but I want back.

Besides, my current plan is to get through this winter and having another kid with my current car, then find me a cherry, unmolested, unmodded black '04 MM to call my own. I will buy used. And then I will go from there to make her mine. Because of this list, I am already starting a list of mods for the car:

1) Trilogy Motorsports SC and tuning
2) Upgraded tires for the factory wheels along with winter wheels/tires
3) Tinted windows (will probably go 5% like usualy for me)
4) Alarm and remote start
5) Upgraded brakes front and rear
6) Suspension upgrades (still researching this one)
7) Lastly, probably some stereo upgrades at some point.

I think that would make for a nice daily driven MM. Again, just dreaming and planning for now and hoping I will find what I want when the time is right. And I am in no hurry, just doing the research ahead of time like usual. I will take my time to find the right car, from the right buyer, with documented history and go from there.

[Bluerauder]

My biggest concern comes down to winter driving and just plain old using the MM for a daily driver and putting that many miles on it. I know cars are meant to be driven and that is what I would do. But how about some input on the MM in the winter? '...snip..." Just curious on input for driving the MM in the winter.
Eric,
I am in Northern Virginia and we do get our share of snow beginning in mid-to-late November. Last year I had no real problems in the snow. I used the OEM tires all winter; but they were almost new. The main roads here get cleared pretty quickly so most of the time, the hassle was only on residential side streets. :2thumbs:

That said, I would rate the Marauder as only OK (read "fair" in the snow). To be honest, my '94 Thunderbird handled the snow better and was probably rated as good. With the MM, it is pretty easy to lose traction on the rear on packed snow and definitely on ice. You gotta be comfortable driving in snow with the Marauder. :drive: My best snow car was a FWD '89 Buick Regal. It was great in the snow; but basically sucked wind on every other count including having a door drop off in the driveway!!!! :shake:

I agree with BigDog about the rain and snow thing with the exception of SUV drivers who think that 4 wheel drive on ice and snow make them invincible -- until it comes time to stop...... :banghead:

[CRUZTAKER]

I'll tell you straight up....

The MM in snow, real snow...with OEM BFG's....SUCKS!!

No matter what the occational poster may try to tell you, the BFG's have a terrible winter rating. There is absolutely nothing wrong, or bad with the car itself. It's the big ass tires.

My Marauder, and many other snowbirds Marauders are absolutely aggressive in the winter when set up with some 16" steelies and some bad ass WINTER ONLY tires.

I had a ball that first winter! I prefer studded Kelly wintermarks in the rear and Alpines in the front, but as long as they're snows....this car plows through the highest snow.

Buy the car, get the snows....and screw the winter!!!:sunshine:

[jstevens]

Last year I ran stock tires. Usually its only bad just before the plows and salt trucks. After that the roads are clear.

I like to turn off the traction control sometimes for some added fun.

[duhtroll]

Where are you located? We have a few Iowa Marauders. I am in Cedar Falls as is John (TooManyFords).

I have the 16" black steelies and Michelin Arctic Alpines for winter. With them on the car, it saves my coated wheels from the salt and the car is the best I have ever driven on the snow and ice. Really.

The snows are only rated to 89 MPH so no drag racing with them on.

Here's a thought I had. I thought about buying a beater for just those 21 days or so in the winter that it's bad enough that I wouldn't drive my MM, and I could just leave the original wheels and tires on and keep it garaged.

Beaters are cheap - find an old Impala SS. :gunfire: :neener:

-A

[BillyGman]

Eric, last year I drove my Marauder in four major snow storms, and it was flawless w/those snow tires I've mentioned. But you'll need to get them on all four corners, since having them on the fronts allows for real good braking ability also. But like Cruztaker said, w/out the snow tires (and I don't mean just lousy all-season radials) the factory stock tires are worthless in the snow.


With those snow tires you can get through one foot of unplowed snow, but not two feet. More than one foot of snow is strictly territory for trucks, or atleast four wheel drive cars. And that's mostly because of the ground clearence being greater w/trucks. Once the snow is high enough to bury your floorboards, then you're not going anywhere despite what snow tires you have on the car.

As far as the S/Cer, this coming winter will be the first one with that, but last year I did have the Stallion torque converter installed w/the 3,000 RPM stall speed, as well as the 4.56 gears in the rear and the headers, and none of that posed any problems for me in the snow. Even though the Trilogy S/Cer turned this car into an animal at full throttle, it has NOT effected the driveability at all since the S/Cer activation is dictated by throttle position,and using less than one third of the throttle will not activate the S/Cer boost pressure at all unless you were to change the stock throttle body like some Trilogy car owners have. But I haven't, and I don't anticipate any problems in the snow because of the S/Cer.

[michburt]

Everytime I start reading about "snow tires" and "snow amounts", it reconfirms why I moved to Florida from Michigan. Of course, Hurricanes not withstanding.:tongue: Three going on four.:alone: But, then again, who's counting.

Mike

[Eric91Z]

Again, thanks for the all input. It is greatly appreciated. If nothing else, I could always keep the FWD Accord around if need be. Then again, with the miles on it, I could probably sell it and have enough to cover winter tires/wheels with enough left over for a hamburger... :woohoo:

Seriously, though, that does get me thinking. Since the Accord is paid for, anything I got out of it would be cash in pocket and could cover some things like winter wheels/tires, tinted windows, alarm w/remote start, and maybe some exhaust work.

Duhtroll, I am located just north of Ames, Iowa. Would love a chance to get together sometime to check out a couple of Marauders. Especially since they seem to be so scarce around here. Although there is a used one for sale sitting in front of a credit union I pass every day on the way to and from work.

[tjg442]

16" steele rims all the way around ! "cooper" cts tires (check the tire grove depth) unreal.
215-70's front
235-70's rear
on my o4 dtr now. Put up with the stock setup last winter !!!!!!!!!!! Never again !!!!! Size difference is right in line with stock diameter for the ticker in our dash. With 5200 lbs, no need for sand bags, works perfect, already had numerous times to use this in bad weather already. Good luck, setup looks like s%@t, but it's still a "marauder" that goe's in snow.....

[justbob]

Holy crap old post!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rayjay]

I used to run Firestones with studds on the rear with no problems. I now run the Coopers, studded all the way around on my Aveo. Twice now I've passed 4x4s who were going too slow. For a small car its a real beast on snow :D