Replacing your MM engine

[John F. Russo]

Suppose your MM engine was not usable anymore and you had to replace it.

What engine would you replace it with?

______________________________ _____________________
2003 Dark Blue Pearl 300B (Canadian) w/Light Flint (reversed
traction control, mini spare, trunked 6 disc CD changer,
clock-in-the-radio, heated front seats/mirrors, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02; converted new then used 2/28/03
-26,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph, one tank of gas
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford); godshead valve stem caps
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing; RainX
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03 (first drove it)
-Vortech supercharger (3 to 7 psig boost)
-377 RWTQ
-4.10 gears
-14 in. BaerClaw front brakes, two piston, slotted rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3
-Ford Racing Stud and Girdle
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y; rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-Dead pedal
-FordChip
-3/4 of a coil from each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ___________________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel (gone)

[Marauder2005]

A Mercury Marauder Engine...

[Tallboy]

A Mercury Marauder Engine...
what he said.

[fastblackmerc]

What he & he said.....

:awe:

[duhtroll]

1973 Pinto.

-A

[SergntMac]

Ditto
Ditto
Ditto
what?

Maybe beef up the internals just a bit...

[MAD-3R]

5.4 SuperCharged out of a lightning or Harley Davidson.

[Haggis]

A "Hemi". :loco:

[Marauder8]

Lightning S/C

[Hack Goby]

`48 LaSalle :trophy1:

[martyo]

Suppose your MM engine was not usable anymore and you had to replace it.

What engine would you replace it with?

Been there, am doing that. Here is what I would go with:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3wmxh/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/img_1366.jpg.w560h420.jpg


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3wmxh/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/IMG_1471.jpg

[valkyrie]

Suppose your MM engine was not usable anymore and you had to replace it.

What engine would you replace it with?

______________________________ _____________________
2003 Dark Blue Pearl 300B (Canadian) w/Light Flint (reversed
traction control, mini spare, trunked 6 disc CD changer,
clock-in-the-radio, heated front seats/mirrors, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02; converted new then used 2/28/03
-26,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph, one tank of gas
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford); godshead valve stem caps
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing; RainX
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03 (first drove it)
-Vortech supercharger (3 to 7 psig boost)
-377 RWTQ
-4.10 gears
-14 in. BaerClaw front brakes, two piston, slotted rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3
-Ford Racing Stud and Girdle
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y; rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-Dead pedal
-FordChip
-3/4 of a coil from each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ___________________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel (gone)


Honda 1502cc Flat 6. :cheer:

[Ross]

Marty, is that the S****t P******t?

[martyo]

Marty, is that the S****t P******t?

Yep! Although those pictures are a bit outdated. I should have some update pictures over the next week.

[merc406]

[QUOTE=John F. Russo]Suppose your MM engine was not usable anymore and you had to replace it.

What engine would you replace it with?

______________________________ _____________________




John be different and dump one of these in it http://www.rotomag.com/ and never stop at the gas station again. (bring your own cord) :lol:

[jakdad]

Suppose your MM engine was not usable anymore and you had to replace it.

What engine would you replace it with?

______________________________ _____________________
2003 Dark Blue Pearl 300B (Canadian) w/Light Flint (reversed
traction control, mini spare, trunked 6 disc CD changer,
clock-in-the-radio, heated front seats/mirrors, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02; converted new then used 2/28/03
-26,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph, one tank of gas
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford); godshead valve stem caps
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing; RainX
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03 (first drove it)
-Vortech supercharger (3 to 7 psig boost)
-377 RWTQ
-4.10 gears
-14 in. BaerClaw front brakes, two piston, slotted rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3
-Ford Racing Stud and Girdle
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y; rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-Dead pedal
-FordChip
-3/4 of a coil from each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ___________________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel (gone) I'll bite John. What's your take on it?

[Smokie]

Ok, if dreaming is allowed, Ford's 427 cubic inch, high riser, dual four barrels, side oiler.

Is the only engine that could challenge, the one, the only, the real deal: 426 Hemi.....did I say HEMI. ?????

[Fourth Horseman]

A 5.0 cammer might be fun.

[Cobra25]

Ok, if dreaming is allowed, Ford's 427 cubic inch, high riser, dual four barrels, side oiler.

Is the only engine that could challenge, the one, the only, the real deal: 426 Hemi.....did I say HEMI. ????? Smokie 426 Hemi ? Can you still get them? I like the way you think.

[jakdad]

Ok, if dreaming is allowed, Ford's 427 cubic inch, high riser, dual four barrels, side oiler.

Is the only engine that could challenge, the one, the only, the real deal: 426 Hemi.....did I say HEMI. ????? Yep 427 HR or tunnel port. The Hemis were competitive with the 427 medium riser and high riser but NASCAR immediately outlawed the tunnel port because nothing could run with it. So Ford took it to the drag strips and the rest is history!
Hey, How far would the High Riser stick out through the hood?????????????

:lol: :lol:

[NAVCHAP]

If I couldn't have MartyO's motor, I would do the V-10 conversion. I saw it a couple of weeks ago at "Jerry Tune" in San Diego, really impressive. -kjs-

[martyo]

If I couldn't have MartyO's motor, I would do the V-10 conversion. I saw it a couple of weeks ago at "Jerry Tune" in San Diego, really impressive. -kjs-

Padre: Where are the pics of that????

[Smokie]

Smokie 426 Hemi ? Can you still get them? I like the way you think.Yes, you can buy a 500 cubic inch hemi crate engine, it is purely a racing engine, with 3000 cfm S/C on nitro it develops over 8000 hp.

[Tallboy]

:hijack: if you replace your engine with a non-marauder engine, is it still a "marauder"?

[martyo]

:hijack: if you replace your engine with a non-marauder engine, is it still a "marauder"?


IMHO: Yes.

[woaface]

Sorry to all...before that S***** P****** picture was taken, I dropped a can of black out all over the engine. Marty kind of liked it though.

[woaface]

THAT high:)




Yep 427 HR or tunnel port. The Hemis were competitive with the 427 medium riser and high riser but NASCAR immediately outlawed the tunnel port because nothing could run with it. So Ford took it to the drag strips and the rest is history!
Hey, How far would the High Riser stick out through the hood?????????????

:lol: :lol:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Suppose your MM engine was not usable anymore and you had to replace it.

What engine would you replace it with ?
V-10 S/C :drive::burn:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

:hijack: if you replace your engine with a non-marauder engine, is it still a "marauder"?
Not an original Marauder! :nono:

[Patrick]

Not an original Marauder! :nono:


:2thumbs: :2thumbs:

[studio460]

Would love the buy a new '04 CV and have one of those V-10s put in it (I LIKE bench seats and column shifters!!!). But if I were to put a new engine in my Marauder, wouldn't everyone agree on a Cobra engine?

[jakdad]

Honestly, I would rather go with the 03 or 04 Navigator engine and trans + other compatible parts. Lots of natural bolt on potential.

[Patrick]

THAT high:)


:high5: :2thumbs:

[John F. Russo]

The reason for my question is that when I start pressing the limit of my engine, it may go on me. So I don't want to waste any time making my decision since I use my car daily. I want a plan of action ready to go.

From my knowledge, a 5.4 liter will not fit in the MM. But the Cobra 4.6 liter with the cast iron girdle will raise my upper limit of the maximum horsepower to the 550- 600 hp range.

Would it make sense to stroke the engine to 5.0 liters since I have it out of the car anyway?

I now get 18 mpg highway and city combined. I really don't want to go below 14 mpg. Is this achievable?

[SergntMac]

The reason for my question is that when I start pressing the limit of my engine, it may go on me. So I don't want to waste any time making my decision since I use my car daily. I want a plan of action ready to go. Would it make sense to stroke the engine to 5.0 liters since I have it out of the car anyway? I now get 18 mpg highway and city combined. I really don't want to go below 14 mpg. Is this achievable?
I see your point of view, John, but I feel you're painting a negative picture of the MM engine that is not supported by the evidence at hand. Yes, some here have lost their engines, but for a variety of reasosns, some of which are not clear on the cause. That's one index to monitor. The other index, is the growing numbers of supercharged MM engines that have not failed, please count them too, you own one.

Yes, supercharging and driving hard will reduce the expected longevity of the base engine, but why wait for it to suffer. Take a vacation, and take your MM to one of the many professional engine builders available for a little "bottom end" reinforcement. The parts and labor are not expensive when compared to installing and tuning a "crate engine" which could fail on first carnk anyway. Unlikely, but possible.

All you need to do is fortify the crank, rods and pistons, oil system, and drop some compression. Retune, and you're done. Once fortified, there's a new world of power available from your Vortech based supercharger, and you keep your original engine...IMHO.

[merc406]

The reason for my question is that when I start pressing the limit of my engine, it may go on me. So I don't want to waste any time making my decision since I use my car daily. I want a plan of action ready to go.

From my knowledge, a 5.4 liter will not fit in the MM. But the Cobra 4.6 liter with the cast iron girdle will raise my upper limit of the maximum horsepower to the 550- 600 hp range.

Would it make sense to stroke the engine to 5.0 liters since I have it out of the car anyway?

I now get 18 mpg highway and city combined. I really don't want to go below 14 mpg. Is this achievable?




This isn't your only car is it? If not and can lay it up for modification, do as much as your wallet can handle......Sounds like it's the only way your gonna be happy on the; "Highway to Hell".... :wave:

[jakdad]

Right John, Easiest swap would be another 4.6 engine. You could opt for a Cobra engine or go for a "built engine" as many of the Lightning owners have. The built engine will have the forged crank, forged rods such as Manley or Eagle and whatever pistons your builder recommends. The built engine is the most expensive and will require transmission upgrades. The faster and stronger you go, the more expensive. I suggest you meet with one of the Marauder engine builders and discuss your future needs. Good luck. Oh, and if you are willing to spend the money, almost any power plant will "fit" any car.:cool: :cool:

[jakdad]

The reason for my question is that when I start pressing the limit of my engine, it may go on me. So I don't want to waste any time making my decision since I use my car daily. I want a plan of action ready to go.

From my knowledge, a 5.4 liter will not fit in the MM. But the Cobra 4.6 liter with the cast iron girdle will raise my upper limit of the maximum horsepower to the 550- 600 hp range.

Would it make sense to stroke the engine to 5.0 liters since I have it out of the car anyway?

I now get 18 mpg highway and city combined. I really don't want to go below 14 mpg. Is this achievable?Right John, Easiest swap would be another 4.6 engine. You could opt for a Cobra engine or go for a "built engine" as many of the Lightning owners have. The built engine will have the forged crank, forged rods such as Manley or Eagle and whatever pistons your builder recommends. The built engine is the most expensive and will require transmission upgrades. The faster and stronger you go, the more expensive. I suggest you meet with one of the Marauder engine builders and discuss your future needs. Good luck. Oh, and if you are willing to spend the money, almost any power plant will "fit" any car.:cool: :cool:

[John F. Russo]

This isn't your only car is it? If not and can lay it up for modification, do as much as your wallet can handle......Sounds like it's the only way your gonna be happy on the; "Highway to Hell".... :wave:


It's a company car. I could rent a car if I had to.

BTW, I only want those that vote my way to vote!

[merc406]

[QUOTE=John F. Russo]It's a company car. I could rent a car if I had to.





BTW, I only want those that vote my way to vote![/QUOTE


The Marauder's a Company car?; your company?


Yeah right :lol: on the vote

[martyo]

Lot's of great ideas here. Some of them fantasies, and some of them realizable.

Let me say this: Doing a motor swap/power upgrade the right way is not a simple feat. It requires a lot of planning, engineering and custom fabrication. Unfortunately, we are not Mustang owners, so we don't have the plethora of parts that they do. My wallet and I sure wish that we did.

How do I know this? Because many of the parts that we have required for our motor swap/build-up have been custom fabricated over the past several months. For example, we had an intercooler manufactured for our car that simply fits like a glove. A real thing of beauty. Now, bear in mind, that none of the "major" players could deliver this piece to us and we had to find someone capable of doing the design and fabrication. That wasn't easy, but we did it. Just wait 'til you see what it looks like.

The intercooler is only one example. Now, go find someone to do the cold air intake tubing in a manner that works and looks good and is functional ..... The list for custom parts that needs to be made in an upgrade like this is endless.

So, the bottom line is either stick with one of the tried and true build ups like a Trilogy, Reinhart or Kenny Brown car, or plan on some serious work ahead of you, or just keep on dreamin'.....

[jakdad]

Lot's of great ideas here. Some of them fantasies, and some of them realizable.

Let me say this: Doing a motor swap/power upgrade the right way is not a simple feat. It requires a lot of planning, engineering and custom fabrication. Unfortunately, we are not Mustang owners, so we don't have the plethora of parts that they do. My wallet and I sure wish that we did.

How do I know this? Because many of the parts that we have required for our motor swap/build-up have been custom fabricated over the past several months. For example, we had an intercooler manufactured for our car that simply fits like a glove. A real thing of beauty. Now, bear in mind, that none of the "major" players could deliver this piece to us and we had to find someone capable of doing the design and fabrication. That wasn't easy, but we did it. Just wait 'til you see what it looks like.

The intercooler is only one example. Now, go find someone to do the cold air intake tubing in a manner that works and looks good and is functional ..... The list for custom parts that needs to be made in an upgrade like this is endless.

So, the bottom line is either stick with one of the tried and true build ups like a Trilogy, Reinhart or Kenny Brown car, or plan on some serious work ahead of you, or just keep on dreamin'..... You're right! The guys that have done the Lightning/Hot Rod swap said they would have been better off to have gone out and bought a Lightning to start with just to have all the pieces together, not to mention, less costly.

[Mike Poore]

5.4 SuperCharged out of a lightning or Harley Davidson.
I'm with Phil on this one. This platform needs more displacement. If there was an SC'd version of the 460 I'd choose it, but that SC'd Lightning motor's in the Ford Racing sales book, and you can order one right now.
:burn:

[jakdad]

I'm with Phil on this one. This platform needs more displacement. If there was an SC'd version of the 460 I'd choose it, but that SC'd Lightning motor's in the Ford Racing sales book, and you can order one right now.
:burn: You also need the Lightning transmission, computer, wire harnesses, etc,etc etc etc........................

[martyo]

You also need the Lightning transmission, computer, wire harnesses, etc,etc etc etc........................

At least someone is catching on....

[Mike Poore]

You also need the Lightning transmission, computer, wire harnesses, etc,etc etc etc........................
Yep, all that stuff, and throw in a drive shaft to boot. But it's my impression the thrust of this fantasy was to pick a replacement engine that was going to offer potential, not simply find a quick and easy replacement. I remain standing with Phil, and still would consider the Lightning motor as a place to, at least, start looking.:high5:

[BALKISSOON]

Ford Motorsports have two good choices.
A 4.6 racing version rated at 430HP
and a 347 CI rated at 450 HP, with a carburator

[martyo]

Ford Motorsports have two good choices.
A 4.6 racing version rated at 430HP
and a 347 CI rated at 450 HP, with a carburator

Can you ship me the wiring harness for that 347 CI?

[MSR7878]

IMHO
when my engine dies, and it will (120 mile rt commute daily, 58k miles and climbing) I am sending $18k and my MM to VT engines and letting them have their way with it, from the bore & stroke to the S/C

I will have more displacement but keep the correct #'s on my block
I already have a savings account set up for this I see it hapening in 2006 or '07

[jakdad]

IMHO
when my engine dies, and it will (120 mile rt commute daily, 58k miles and climbing) I am sending $18k and my MM to VT engines and letting them have their way with it, from the bore & stroke to the S/C

I will have more displacement but keep the correct #'s on my block
I already have a savings account set up for this I see it hapening in 2006 or '07 Sounds like a wise choice.

[Mike Poore]

Can you ship me the wiring harness for that 347 CI?There's the rub, Marty, and it's why, although tempting, to avoid the temptation to look at FE motors as a choice. You seem to be saying, though, there's major issues with trying to swap in a Lightning motor/trans combo. At first blush, it doesn't seem to be such a big deal. From the looks of the crate motor in your garage, I'm betting it's not your first trip around the block.;)

[martyo]

There's the rub, Marty, and it's why, although tempting, to avoid the temptation to look at FE motors as a choice. You seem to be saying, though, there's major issues with trying to swap in a Lightning motor/trans combo. At first blush, it doesn't seem to be such a big deal. From the looks of the crate motor in your garage, I'm betting it's not your first trip around the block.;)

One thing I have learned over the last several months is that if it seems like it'll fit easy, it won't....

I have a boat load of respect for the guys like Dennis R. and Paul who have done the rad motor replacements. I know how difiifcult these projects are.

By the way Dennis, where have you been hiding the Cobra Marauder???

[BALKISSOON]

Can you ship me the wiring harness for that 347 CI?

I know I would never replace a f.i. motor with a carburator.
I saw this motor on Speed Channel, on a show called Overhaulin and they dropped it in a 66 Mustang. It was the debeut of the motor. It look good but I wouldn't put this in a MM.
I really wish they had make a small V10 MM, that would be my choice.

[LightningVic]

a lightning motor isnt as hard as you think believe it or not. I was looking into it for my 2v (which is even easier for me since its just 2v to 2v) but i decided to create my own supercharger kit instead. 5.4 lightning motor. Sell the lightning blower on ebay, and buy a cobra supercharger, which is basically identical, but doesnt put the inlet on top of the already heinously huge supercharger. Relocate battery to trunk (not a huge deal, I already did it cost me less than 100). Now you can use any standard or aftermarket 03 cobra air intake, and the filter should end up where your battery was. Now comes the neat part about modular motors. Remove your motor from the car. Switch the oil pan/pickup tube over to the 5.4. Bolt your flexplate onto the back of the 5.4, I believe they are both 8 bolt flywheels. This will allow it to bolt up to your stock converter and transmission (although if you dog the car after the swap, you will break your tranny, so beefing up the tranny is recommended).
Now the lightning motor is physically ready to drop in. Your stock harness can be modified quite easily to run the lightning motor. Poke around www.cobrapoweredgt.com and simply reverse engineer your harness from 4v to 2v ready. I believe it is a simple matter of injector harness splicing, and a few wires will need to be lengthened and spliced. The Maf sensor will have to be lengthened and relocated to the pass side since the air inlet is over there now. Next you have to bolt up your exhaust. Exhaust I am trying to develop 2v Long tube headers, so those would really make power on this swap, but otherwise a set of ADTR shorty 2v headers with their X-pipe package, and possibly custom exhaust will set you up on the exhaust side. This takes care of physical fitment, exhaust fitment, vauge wiring (its not hard all the connections are there to support it, some of them just need to be modified to 2v connectors). Next just have any tuner insert a lightning program into your ECU by however you wish, SCT, diablosport, they can all do it. The final piece of the puzzle is going to be hood clearance. There isnt any, however you are doing alot better than if you had used the stock lightning blower. cut a hole in the hood, buy a fiberglass or steel scoop which will fit over the blower and conceal it and that is of a style you like, and then take it to a body shop. A cheap glass scoop molded and with the whole hood painted, I was quoted 350 bucks. I may be doing a swap like this, although not in the near future, as I have committed myself to other projects. However, if my other projects give me some $$$ I will gladly perform this, and then offer the parts as a kit. P.S. another route you could go is just buy a 5.4 used shortblock, have it built, and then buy whipple industries new 5.4 whipple 2v intercooled kit. Anyway this swap would give you almost 500 ft lbs of torque and almost 400 hp in stock form. Certainly more than most would need, and if you do need more, well its a lightning, just add more boost ;)

[LightningVic]

oh and i almost forgot, you have to convert your cooling system over, but thats not hard, every panther besides the marauder has a 2v cooling system, so just pirate 2v parts. It is pretty straight forward.

[merc406]

All this about a different motor is kinda dumb. This motor is nice, lightweight and with a supercharger on it is powerfull enough to do , what 11.5 at the strip, for a 4500# car that's amazing, take the motor it to have it bulletproofed if you must but, it's a nice package already, Hell, I am thinking of pullin the 406 and getting one.

[LightningVic]

it is a nice motor.............in a mustang. I love the MM, and I will have one 1 day, but at 4300 lbs, it needs torque, not 6k shift points. Displacement can get that done. With a lightning motor, you would probably only be spinning it to 5200 or 5300 rpms at the most, but with the torque curve of the L motor who needs 6k? There are many 03 cobras putting down spectacular horsepower and torque numbers, however modified lightnings put down more torque, and give a better torque band. I am not saying you are wrong, in fact I agree with you it is definately a motor you can keep, but added displacement would certainly change the feel of the car. In the marauders I drove and have ridden in, I always thought it was sort of a strange sensation being in a car that big and having that kind of top end power. Of course I am a former impala owner, so I sort of associate big with grunt.

[merc406]

I could get use to the 18-22 mpg real fast! is what i'm about and the less weight and carbs to boot :lol: :rasta:

[BillyGman]

it is a nice motor.............in a mustang. I love the MM, and I will have one 1 day, but at 4300 lbs, it needs torque, not 6k shift points. Displacement can get that done. With a lightning motor, you would probably only be spinning it to 5200 or 5300 rpms at the most, but with the torque curve of the L motor who needs 6k? There are many 03 cobras putting down spectacular horsepower and torque numbers, however modified lightnings put down more torque, and give a better torque band. .
I am in total agreement with you, and I own a S/Ced Marauder!! Yes, I LUV my Marauder the way it is, but if I had my way, ford would've put a 5.4L S/Ced engine in this car!!!! It would've given more power, and in a wider RPM range. A very good point you've made. Look at what they chose for the 2005 Ford GT. Can you say "gobs of torque"????

[LightningVic]

gas mileage would also improve with this setup. With 4.10 gears, and an L motor, keeping your foot out of it most of the time, you could easily see 20 +mpgs. It would take alot less effort to get the car going, and cruising as well. When I had 3.27 gears in my car I couldnt see over 17 and that was babying it. Now with 4.10s in the city, and keeping it at a normal speed on the highway i can see 18 and 19 on a good day. With more low end grunt, I could break 20 im sure.

[BillyGman]

I don't see how gas mileage can even enter this conversation since we're talking about high performance upgrades. The gas mileage argument is what the ricers all resort to since they have nothing else to fall back on!!! But okay, I know we're probably talking about a car that will be a daily driver, so for what it's worth, when I had 4.10 gears in my Marauder, I only got 15 MPG around town, and that was BEFORE it was S/Ced.

[LightningVic]

gas could be as high as 3 dollars a gallon within the next 3 years. Gas always enters.

[merc406]

I don't see how gas mileage can even enter this conversation since we're talking about high performance upgrades. The gas mileage argument is what the ricers all resort to since they have nothing else to fall back on!!! But okay, I know we're probably talking about a car that will be a daily driver, so for what it's worth, when I had 4.10 gears in my Marauder, I only got 15 MPG around town, and that was BEFORE it was S/Ced.




To have gas mileage and performance is where it's at, the 406 get's 8-10mpg, so yep, I'm lookin. :burnout:

[BillyGman]

To have gas mileage and performance is where it's at, the 406 get's 8-10mpg, so yep, I'm lookin. :burnout:yeah, I hear ya..... but I know how it is to be getting that kind of gas mileage, since I was getting 10.5 MPG w/my 73 Vette, and it was killing my bank account when I drove that thing on a daily basis. But that's because my Vette wasn't fuel injected, and carbureted engines are pigs when it comes to gas mileage. And I think that 15 MPG is a far cry from 10 MPG. Especially when you consider how much money most of us have to pay for insurance!! If I can handle $900 a year for insurance just for one car, then I should be able to handle 15 MPG.

[Captain Steve]

gas mileage would also improve with this setup. With 4.10 gears, and an L motor, keeping your foot out of it most of the time, you could easily see 20 +mpgs. It would take alot less effort to get the car going, and cruising as well. When I had 3.27 gears in my car I couldnt see over 17 and that was babying it. Now with 4.10s in the city, and keeping it at a normal speed on the highway i can see 18 and 19 on a good day. With more low end grunt, I could break 20 im sure.
The only reason that gas mileage would improve with the 4:10s is efficiency in the shift points. Meaning that the car isn't needlessly downshifting (and thus revving much higher) while accelerating.

Switching from a 4.6L engine to a 5.4L engine wouldn't be more efficient. You'd have gobs and gobs for power though. Switching from a 4.6L to a 3.0L engine would be more fuel efficient, but the acceleration would suck.

Probably the most fuel efficient combo on our cars would be a 40hp, 0.5L engine with a magic 10 gear transmission. It'd sip gas man.. really.

[John F. Russo]

Honestly, I would rather go with the 03 or 04 Navigator engine and trans + other compatible parts. Lots of natural bolt on potential.


I need some help here.

What engine size? Why did you make that selection?

[BillyGman]

The Navigator has a 5.4L engine. To my knowledge the block and crank are decent, but it ends there, and the crank snout broke while testing it in the new 2005 Ford GT, and therefore had to be altered and beefed-up to handle the GT's 550 HP and 500 FT/LBS of Torque. BTW, Ford also beefed-up the aluminum block w/extra wall thichness and webbing for the GT.

[John F. Russo]

The Navigator has a 5.4L engine. To my knowledge the block and crank are decent, but it ends there, and the crank snout broke while testing it in the new 2005 Ford GT, and therefore had to be altered and beefed-up to handle the GT's 550 HP and 500 FT/LBS of Torque. BTW, Ford also beefed-up the aluminum block w/extra wall thichness and webbing for the GT.


I thought the 5.4 liter engine would not fit in our car otherwise it would have been offered in our car originally.

[jakdad]

I like the 'Gator engine because of the four valve heads. The 05 engines will have the 3 valve heads. I haven't seen major problems with the 5.4 crank. I prefer the forged steel crank like the Lightnings use and these engines are being built to 800+ H.P. without crank failure. I threw that out as an option in the event you might consider a swap. From a practical stand point, I think you should follow your own idea about a built or stroker 4.6. That way it simplifies many things such as accessories bolting up and belt alignment. That would also be more cost effective rather than using a 5.4 or V-10 etc. A trans up grade would be in order. Good luck and I admire the advance preparation for the inevitable. We all need new mechanicals or rebuilds at some point. Better to be prepared.

[John F. Russo]

I like the 'Gator engine because of the four valve heads. The 05 engines will have the 3 valve heads. I haven't seen major problems with the 5.4 crank. I prefer the forged steel crank like the Lightnings use and these engines are being built to 800+ H.P. without crank failure. I threw that out as an option in the event you might consider a swap. From a practical stand point, I think you should follow your own idea about a built or stroker 4.6. That way it simplifies many things such as accessories bolting up and belt alignment. That would also be more cost effective rather than using a 5.4 or V-10 etc. A trans up grade would be in order. Good luck and I admire the advance preparation for the inevitable. We all need new mechanicals or rebuilds at some point. Better to be prepared.


I had my transmission replaced at about 8600 miles with the following:

Rebuilding Parts Purchased from Performance Automatic
Performance Automatic rebuild “soft” kit (not a complete rebuild; only those parts that required it except for the valve body.)
1. Valve body: p/n PA45301L ($280) (shifts more like a police interceptor, not a dragster)
2. Kit #1 (plastic coated package with clutches): Alto kit 49754A/49754AHP, powerpack AOD-E, GROBHP 91+; 8- friction clutches [orange brown on each side], 8- black steel with teeth,
1- twice the thickness of the black steel ($ )
3. Kit #2 (plastic coated package with clutches; no p/n on package): 1-band with lining stamped with Kevlar, 4- large diameter clutches, 8-rings black with teeth with a diameter slightly larger
than the Alto kit ($ ? )


Would you say that this is adequate for up to 600hp?
I was told that it was by Bill at Performance Automatic from New Jersey.

[bhenderson]

I would replace it with one of those new FRPP 5.0L 32 Valve crate motors (400+hp)


Suppose your MM engine was not usable anymore and you had to replace it.

What engine would you replace it with?

______________________________ _____________________
2003 Dark Blue Pearl 300B (Canadian) w/Light Flint (reversed
traction control, mini spare, trunked 6 disc CD changer,
clock-in-the-radio, heated front seats/mirrors, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02; converted new then used 2/28/03
-26,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph, one tank of gas
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford); godshead valve stem caps
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing; RainX
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03 (first drove it)
-Vortech supercharger (3 to 7 psig boost)
-377 RWTQ
-4.10 gears
-14 in. BaerClaw front brakes, two piston, slotted rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3
-Ford Racing Stud and Girdle
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y; rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-Dead pedal
-FordChip
-3/4 of a coil from each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ___________________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel (gone)

[John F. Russo]

I would replace it with one of those new FRPP 5.0L 32 Valve crate motors (400+hp)


I can get the first two letters in "FRPP" as "Ford Racing..". What do the last two letters stand for?

Is it supercharged?

[jakdad]

I had my transmission replaced at about 8600 miles with the following:

Rebuilding Parts Purchased from Performance Automatic
Performance Automatic rebuild “soft” kit (not a complete rebuild; only those parts that required it except for the valve body.)
1. Valve body: p/n PA45301L ($280) (shifts more like a police interceptor, not a dragster)
2. Kit #1 (plastic coated package with clutches): Alto kit 49754A/49754AHP, powerpack AOD-E, GROBHP 91+; 8- friction clutches [orange brown on each side], 8- black steel with teeth,
1- twice the thickness of the black steel ($ )
3. Kit #2 (plastic coated package with clutches; no p/n on package): 1-band with lining stamped with Kevlar, 4- large diameter clutches, 8-rings black with teeth with a diameter slightly larger
than the Alto kit ($ ? )


Would you say that this is adequate for up to 600hp?
I was told that it was by Bill at Performance Automatic from New Jersey. I would certainly try it if I were you. What's the worst that can happen? If somthing in the trans fails, let those guys pull it down and repair it. If you are confident with Performance Automatic, stay with them. He obviously has an upgraded rebuild for more serious performance needs and could install that kit. I really think you should disregard what I suggested about the 'Gator engine, or Lightning, or crate motors because of all the hassle involved with the electronics etc. Just to build mounts and physically bolt an engine/trans into a vehicle barely scratches the surface of what you will have to do to make it a turn key job. Keep us informed of your decision.

[bhenderson]

FRPP=Ford Racing Performance Parts

It's not supercharged, but has the cubic inches Ford should had in the beginning.

The Ford Racing catalogue has several 4.6 32v Cammers from long blocks to full crate. Trouble is they are expensive.


I can get the first two letters in "FRPP" as "Ford Racing..". What do the last two letters stand for?

Is it supercharged?

[John F. Russo]

FRPP=Ford Racing Performance Parts

It's not supercharged, but has the cubic inches Ford should had in the beginning.

The Ford Racing catalogue has several 4.6 32v Cammers from long blocks to full crate. Trouble is they are expensive.


Can it be supercharged to make 550 to 600 hp?

What is the estimated cost?

[Dr Caleb]

Can it be supercharged to make 550 to 600 hp?

What is the estimated cost?

Just off the top of my head, from the FRPP cat., there are a couple crate motors in there with the GT heads, 5.4L engine at least, if not exceeding 600hp. The only price I remember ws the Cobra crate motor with S/C, for about $12,000 - but very limited supply.

From the cat:

4.6L crate motors:
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularreplacement.asp

Mustang (note 5.0L for $14,995.00)
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularcobra.asp

Small Blocks
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/302smallblock.asp

GT40 - 351
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 6683

[bhenderson]

I'm sure it can be supercharged, but I don't know the power figures. It's a stroked 4.6. The 5.0L Cammer I am talking about is close to $15k. I was out at the GoodGuys event at TMS last weekend and talked to the Ford Racing guys.


Can it be supercharged to make 550 to 600 hp?

What is the estimated cost?

[bhenderson]

I just looked it up. Go to www.modularpower.com (http://www.modularpower.com) and click on "Articles". There is a story about Ford introducing at SEMA new Cammer motors with various inductions including a blown version. The neat thing about these engines is they come complete with accessories including the A/C compressor. This is the way I will go when it's time to replace my 4.6. I will check the Ford Racing cat. and send you the part number.


Can it be supercharged to make 550 to 600 hp?

What is the estimated cost?

[martyo]

I just looked it up. Go to www.modularpower.com (http://www.modularpower.com) and click on "Articles". There is a story about Ford introducing at SEMA new Cammer motors with various inductions including a blown version. The neat thing about these engines is they come complete with accessories including the A/C compressor. This is the way I will go when it's time to replace my 4.6. I will check the Ford Racing cat. and send you the part number.

What side is the induction on?

[bhenderson]

Passenger side. There should be a way change that.


What side is the induction on?

[martyo]

Passenger side. There should be a way change that.

There should be a way to do a lot of things, and usually there is. It's all about time and money.

[John F. Russo]

FRPP=Ford Racing Performance Parts

It's not supercharged, but has the cubic inches Ford should had in the beginning.

The Ford Racing catalogue has several 4.6 32v Cammers from long blocks to full crate. Trouble is they are expensive.

Can it be supercharged to achieve my goal of 550-600 hp?

[bhenderson]

Ford showed three versions of the "Cammer" at SEMA; carburated, EFI and supercharged. Looks like you could get your 600hp with the supercharged. Again, the one obstacle I see is the TB is on the passenger side vs driver side. The 5.0L shown in the catalogue is EFI.
Can it be supercharged to achieve my goal of 550-600 hp?

[John F. Russo]

Ford showed three versions of the "Cammer" at SEMA; carburated, EFI and supercharged. Looks like you could get your 600hp with the supercharged. Again, the one obstacle I see is the TB is on the passenger side vs driver side. The 5.0L shown in the catalogue is EFI.


I just checked modular power magazine and this is what I think you're talking about.

From the www.modularpower.com website:
"FORD RACING FR100 PANEL
TRUCK SPECIFICATIONS
UNDER THE HOOD
• Ford Racing Supercharged 5.0-liter
"Cammer" crate engine
o Ford Racing 4V Modular V-8 wiring
harness kit
o Eaton Gen IV Roots-type supercharger
ESTIMATED PERFORMANCE
• Horsepower: 600HP
• Torque 500 ft.-lbs"


Is it safe to say that I would be better off getting the entire engine ready to be installed instead of trying to build my own (when my engine goes dead)?

[John F. Russo]

Been there, am doing that. Here is what I would go with:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3wmxh/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/img_1366.jpg.w560h420.jpg


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3wmxh/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/IMG_1471.jpg

I'll show my ignorance. What is it?

[John F. Russo]

I'm sure it can be supercharged, but I don't know the power figures. It's a stroked 4.6. The 5.0L Cammer I am talking about is close to $15k. I was out at the GoodGuys event at TMS last weekend and talked to the Ford Racing guys.


This reply is a mistake. Sorry.

[John F. Russo]

Just off the top of my head, from the FRPP cat., there are a couple crate motors in there with the GT heads, 5.4L engine at least, if not exceeding 600hp. The only price I remember ws the Cobra crate motor with S/C, for about $12,000 - but very limited supply.

From the cat:

4.6L crate motors:
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularreplacement.asp

Mustang (note 5.0L for $14,995.00)
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularcobra.asp

Small Blocks
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/302smallblock.asp

GT40 - 351
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 6683

Thank you for the information.

I'm just getting ready for the possible engine breakage.

[martyo]

I'll show my ignorance. What is it?

4.6 Iron Block. It won't break.

[John F. Russo]

4.6 Iron Block. It won't break.


Will it achieve my goal of 550-600 hp and fit in my car?

[martyo]

It will fit for sure. I will give you power numbers in a few weeks.

[John F. Russo]

It will fit for sure. I will give you power numbers in a few weeks.


Is it the engine that Dr. Caleb is talking about on p. 6 of this thread in which he says, "Just off the top of my head, from the FRPP cat., there are a couple crate motors in there with the GT heads, 5.4L engine at least, if not exceeding 600hp. The only price I remember ws the Cobra crate motor with S/C, for about $12,000 - but very limited supply."?

[martyo]

Is it the engine that Dr. Caleb is talking about on p. 6 of this thread in which he says, "Just off the top of my head, from the FRPP cat., there are a couple crate motors in there with the GT heads, 5.4L engine at least, if not exceeding 600hp. The only price I remember ws the Cobra crate motor with S/C, for about $12,000 - but very limited supply."?

Nope. This one was hand built to my order. Specs to follow shortly after next Friday's gather in the ATL.

[chrish]

Nope. This one was hand built to my order. Specs to follow shortly after next Friday's gather in the ATL.
marty is there any body work on the project........please tell............? :help:



yes or no would be fine ....... :beatnik:

[martyo]

yes or no would be fine ....... :beatnik:

Not yet.....

[earlystroke]

All this about a different motor is kinda dumb. This motor is nice, lightweight and with a supercharger on it is powerfull enough to do , what 11.5 at the strip, for a 4500# car that's amazing, take the motor it to have it bulletproofed if you must but, it's a nice package already, Hell, I am thinking of pullin the 406 and getting one.

I agree.Even though I don't have my MM yet. As far as I know it's the same motor as was in my Mark VIII. I pounded that motor for 125K miles when I sold it now it has 160K plus and only the altenator has been replaced. I couldn't believe that an aluminum motor can take so much abuse. I'm not much of an aluminum guy. My Mark had exhaust, underdrive pullies, ram air with gutted resonators, a few other odds and ends that I can't remember. Anyway she was running high 13's low 14's with 3.08 gears. This motor always saw 6500 rpm daily. When I get my MM and when the motor goes I would replace it with the same thing. As far as I can tell the motors will last an awful long time and take ALOT of abuse, mine did and still is.:)

Matt

[maraudernkc]

I would put a MM engine with ported heads new rods Forged pitions(LOwer Compression) amd a Forged crank and yoy would have a really solid S/C motor.




Suppose your MM engine was not usable anymore and you had to replace it.

What engine would you replace it with?

______________________________ _____________________
2003 Dark Blue Pearl 300B (Canadian) w/Light Flint (reversed
traction control, mini spare, trunked 6 disc CD changer,
clock-in-the-radio, heated front seats/mirrors, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02; converted new then used 2/28/03
-26,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph, one tank of gas
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford); godshead valve stem caps
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing; RainX
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03 (first drove it)
-Vortech supercharger (3 to 7 psig boost)
-377 RWTQ
-4.10 gears
-14 in. BaerClaw front brakes, two piston, slotted rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3
-Ford Racing Stud and Girdle
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y; rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-Dead pedal
-FordChip
-3/4 of a coil from each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ___________________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel (gone)

[SergntMac]

I would put a MM engine with ported heads new rods Forged pitions(LOwer Compression) amd a Forged crank and yoy would have a really solid S/C motor.
Okay...I'll bite. What's wrong with the cast crank?