Drag Radials

[Brutus]

BF Goodrich has added 18 inch sizes to its line of drag radials.

Read morehttp://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/bfgapp/news/press_release/05282003A.jsp

[martyo]

BF Goodrich has added 18 inch sizes to its line of drad radials.

Read morehttp://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/bfgapp/news/press_release/05282003A.jsp

Ummmmm, that press release is like from a year and a half ago......

:sleepy:

[BillyGman]

Brutus, look at the link below. It's a PDF file, so you'll need to download the free version of Acrobat reader 6.0 if you don't already have it in your PC. The link will show you a size & spec chart of those tires you're refering to. You'll see that all of them have a tire height of only 25, and 26". That's why I didn't choose them. They're too short and will look lousy on a Marauder since they will not fill up the wheel wells. The Nitto drag radials are P305/45/18's and since they have a higher profile, they have a height or "outside diameter" of over 28". So they will look much better on a Marauder. my guess is, that the only way that the BFG drag radials would look good is if you lower your car 2". Remember, even the stock factory radials on the Marauder are over 28" tall. So you'll want a replacement tire that has a height between 28" and 29" whether it's a drag radial or not. The P305/45 Nitto N555R is the perfect height for our Marauders.



http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/assets/pdf/gforce_ta_drag_radial.pdf

[SergntMac]

Drag radials are drag radials, period. Unfortunately, many tire manfacturers have confused this definition with their own version of an "extreme" driving/street performance tire line, and consumers are often likewise confused.

BFG has had a "drag radial" in 18" on the market for a while. Zacks uses the 275/35/18 (20 PSI) on 9.5" rims for racing, and he recently turned his best of 11.85 with a 1.6x 60' time, no juice. Outstanding performance from a drag radial, and from the MM. BTW, this tire/rim/PSI results in a contact patch almost 14" wide(X2) to the track. I haven't seen better in tread performance, or, track performance.

I strongly disagree that anyone should drive anywhere on the street with drag radials in place. DRs come with a paltry 5, maybe 6/32 tread depth, which is very close to 3/32 definition of "legally bald" in most states, and an aggressive tread pattern that maximizes forward traction, but likewise reduces lateral adhesion and water management under severe braking. This is great tread depth for drag racing, or, autocrossing with DRs mounted at all four corners. However, they are not designed or intended for general street use, as the shallow tread depth contributes to hydroplaning in the rain, which is further magnafied by the weight of our MMs.

IMHO, concern for "filling the wheel well" for appearances sake, seems a non-concern here. Likewise any concern of disrupting Traction Control and ABS compatability. These tires are racing tires, Traction Control should be shut off, and though you will see an ABS MIL while the tires are mounted on the car, it's just a warning that resets when the ignition switch is recycled once the correct tires are in place.

Just my .02C

[BillyGman]

I think that if hear one more person talk about drag radials on the street being terrible in the rain, I'm gonna PUKE!!! Where does that misconception come from anyway? I'm sure your intentions are well MAC. So I mean no disrespect here. But there are a number of us running the Nitto drag radials on the street, and we haven't had any problems in the rain at all. I know that I haven't, nor has Lidio. And he drove all the way to Florida and back w/the Nitto Drag radials while it was raining most of the time on his way back to his homestate.


I drive my car every single day on the highway to work and back, and I've had the Nitto drag radials on for the past 6 months now, and have driven countless number of times in the rain w/out any problems at all even at 80+ MPH. No matter what tires I have on, I always take it easy around corners and in heavy traffic situations in the rain. I never make it a habit of driving crazy around turns on the street anyway, even when it's dry out simpy because most turns on the street are blind becausen of trees, houses, and parked cars in the way, and you have no idea what's on the other side of that turn until you get there.

The one thing I do agree w/you on is that yes, DR's are DR's. I have no loyalty to any one brand. Like I've previously stated, the only reason I've went w/the Nitto DR's is because I haven't lowered the suspension on my Marauder like you have and I believe that Zack has too. So for me to go w/a tire that has a 25" or even a 26" height wouldn't be to my liking since it would be a full 2"-3" shorter in height than the factory stock tires are, and that would look like garbage IMO. Perhaps the drag radials are bad in the rain IF you let them get down to having no tread at all. I'm sure that would be unsafe in the rain, yes. But I for one have no intentions of doing that. I'm sure that any drag radials will not last very long on the street, but the way that most of us drive our Marauders on the street, the factory stock radials on the back aren't lasting very long either. I have 6,500 miles on my Nitto DR's so far, and they're just fine in the rain. You have to take it easy in the rain no matter what tire you have on the back. If you don't, then that's a gamble either way. But I haven't had to take it any easier, nor any slower in the rain w/the Nitto DR's than I've had to w/the factory stock radials that came w/the car.

Drag radials ARE intended to be used on the street as well as on the track. That's what they're made for. If that wasn't the case, then what would be the point of having a "drag radial" tire on the track in the first place? If they weren't for street use also, then you might as well go w/slicks on the track, since they grip better than DR's do anyway. DR's are simply an intermediate tire that is more versatle than slicks or standard radials are. They grip better than the standard radials do both on the street and at the track, but ofcourse not as good at the track as slicks do. But they also have better handling charactersitics around turns than any slick would have, since they are a "radial" tire.

[mmmmmmarauder]

I was looking for the widest and tallest tires for my Marauder
(drag radial or otherwise)...

How do I get on touch with Lidio for wheel widening (email or phone #)?

I would like to not have to change the tires and wheels for
winter driving and have concerns about ride quality, tread noise,
and traction under wet or icy conditions...


Whatz the bottom line please?


p

[BillyGman]

Winter driving? Forget about ANY drag radial tires for winter driving. But for that matter you can forget about the factory stock radials or any standard radial tire for driving a Marauder in the snow even if it's an "all season" radial. There's no question about it. Whether your Marauder has traction control or not, you're not going to get very far in the snow unless you get four good snow tires. And I don't mean all-season radials either. There are a number of snow tire threads on here. i suggest that you check them out.

[mmmmmmarauder]

drive with care...and anticipate stops and curves


all season radials are OK for any non-four-wheel-drive application

I have been driving for 20 years in Chicago with huge rear wheel drive cars
and never got stuck or slid anywhere except in a parking space...


So...if I got the wheels widened their absolute MAX...is there a tall and wide all season tire I can use instead of a drag radial...?


Are the treads noisy?
Is the ride compromised?


Peter

[Brutus]

I didnt realize that BF Goodrich offered them in 18". My bad. Billy I understand what you mean about the aspect ratio but it is a matter of personal preference. I know some here have put the 235's on all four corners. Even though it wouldn't fill the wheelwell it would give a lower overall gear ratio. It also gives those an option for the DR's that dont want to flip for the widened wheels.

[BillyGman]

drive with care...and anticipate stops and curves


all season radials are OK for any non-four-wheel-drive application

I have been driving for 20 years in Chicago with huge rear wheel drive cars
and never got stuck or slid anywhere except in a parking space...



Peter
I drove in five major snow storms last winter w/my 2003 marauder. The first one I had the stock radials on, and the following 4 storms I had legit snow tires on. No comparisant. but since this is all off-topic for this thread anyway, I'll leave it at that other than to say, if you don't have legit snow tires on your Marauder this winter, good luck when it comes to hills. you're gonna need it.

[BillyGman]

Billy I understand what you mean about the aspect ratio but it is a matter of personal preference. I know some here have put the 235's on all four corners. Even though it wouldn't fill the wheelwell it would give a lower overall gear ratio. the "ratio" you say? I wasn't talking about that at all. Go back and read my post. I think that you should pay attention to the specified tire heights of any tire in question which has nothing to do w/the width. That's why I provided you w/that link. it gives you the height specs of the tires you were talking about.

[Brutus]

the "ratio" you say? I wasn't talking about that at all. Go back and read my post. I think that you should pay attention to the specified tire heights of any tire in question which has nothing to do w/the width. That's why I provided you w/that link. it gives you the height specs of the tires you were talking about.
Huh?? The height of the tire is determined by the aspect ratio. The aspect ratio is the height of the tire in realation to the width. A 245/55-18 tire is taller than a 245/50-18 per say, where the 50 and 55 are the aspect ratios. It simply means that the tire sidewall is 55% as tall as the width.

[BillyGman]

You would be better off looking at the exact tire height specified by the manufacture since it's more specific. The tires you're refering to are up to a full 3" shorter than the factory stock tires. If you have a stock suspension height on your Marauder, and you don't think that having a tire height of 3" less than the stock tire height is going to look bad, than good luck. Let me know how they look when you get them on. Ratios can get confusing when you're comapring tire sizes since you're not only comparing one set of numbers, but two sets. You don't need to do all of that if you simply look at the tire height spec on the charts that tirerack provides. Which BTW is precisely why the tire manufactures provide the tire height spec in the first place (aka the "diameter" spec). If you want to replace a stock 28" tall tire w/a 25" one, then go ahead friend. I'll pass since my Marauder still has the stock suspension height.

[Brutus]

You would be better off looking at the exact tire height specified by the manufacture since it's more specific. The tires you're refering to are up to a full 3" shorter than the factory stock tires. If you have a stock suspension height on your Marauder, and you don't think that having a tire height of 3" less than the stock tire height is going to look bad, than good luck. Let me know how they look when you get them on. Ratios can get confusing when you're comapring tire sizes since you're not only comparing one set of numbers, but two sets. You don't need to do all of that if you simply look at the tire height spec on the charts that tirerack provides. Which BTW is precisely why the tire manufactures provide the tire height spec in the first place (aka the "diameter" spec). If you want to replace a stock 28" tall tire w/a 25" one, then go ahead friend. I'll pass since my Marauder still has the stock suspension height.
Your right Billy, If I want to do it I will. And the confusion here seems to be my use of the wording "aspect ratio" in my reply instead of tire height. And also, thanks for the tip on on the manufacturers posting the the specs on their websites. Im on my way to the bookstore to pick up Adobe acrobat for Dummies.

[BillyGman]

Your right Billy, If I want to do it I will. And the confusion here seems to be my use of the wording "aspect ratio" in my reply instead of tire height. And also, thanks for the tip on on the manufacturers posting the the specs on their websites. Im on my way to the bookstore to pick up Adobe acrobat for Dummies.You can download the Acrobat reader from their website for free Brutus. And the chart I'm speaking of from Tirerack lists the tire heights specifically in inches for every single tire. It's really a great source of info, and one that some other online tire places do NOT provide.

[SergntMac]

I think that if hear one more person talk about drag radials on the street being terrible in the rain, I'm gonna PUKE!!! Where does that misconception come from anyway? I'm sure your intentions are well MAC. So I mean no disrespect here. But there are a number of us running the Nitto drag radials on the street, and we haven't had any problems in the rain at all. I know that I haven't, nor has Lidio. And he drove all the way to Florida and back w/the Nitto Drag radials while it was raining most of the time on his way back to his homestate.
No disrespect taken, Billy, but let's agree that we have our own opinions.

Performance tire manfacturers have cautions, and they are not silent on them. This shortcut will take you to TireDirect's competition tire homepage, where the "misconceptions" you mention are explained by each manfacturer, in their own words. Please take the time to read them?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/comp.jsp

There are a number of offerings to sort out, but they share a common theme of caution against using these tires in high moisture, rain, or wet environments. Only one tire listed here is specifically designed for use in the rain, the Hoosier RadialWet. Here's the popular choices that fit our MMs.

Pirelli... http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=PZero+Corsa
BFG... http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+T%2FA+Drag+Radial
Dunlop... http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=SP+Super+Sport+Race

Drag radials ARE intended to be used on the street as well as on the track.
To agree with you, Billy, I have to consider that some sacrifices in compound and tread design may be at play, and I believe that if I'm buying a tire for racing, it should be all the racing tire I can get.

I believe Zack's recent 11.85 ET on his BFGs is a good example of maximum drag radial performance, I don't believe he would have done that well on a Nitto...IMHO. Moreover, even Zack and I disagree on this, and I bought Pirelli. But, clearly not all drag radials are suitable for the street.

[merc406]

We used to run cheater slicks on the street, but we also had white knuckles when it rained, slicks even tho I know their are people that run them on the street have to have their thoughts when driving in inclement weather, on their rear ends. I'd rather not have those thoughts or worries if something were to happen. Any accident with them on your ride at the time, may not bode well with your insurance company. JMO :burnout:

[merc]

Brutus, have you done something to your cars that requires additional traction? or are you planning on supercharging your car in the near future. I have been reading and watching lots of racing in the last year. Tires are a sticky subject. It seems to me that the best overall buy for the dollar is the stock O.E.M tires for most purposes. Sure you can purchase better, as Mac has pointed out, but what are you looking for. Straight-line drag performance done right requires dedicated solutions. What I found to be interesting is that the O.E.M BFG with over 25,000 miles on them work great for drag racing. They will not pass inspection but stick to the ground when properly warmed up. I made the mistake of replacing the old tires and now I have major traction problems, go figure. When I was running my raggedy old BFG’s I could get sub 14 second runs all day long with 2.0 sixty foot times. There is a rubber compound difference between the Stock tire and drag radials, but given your current HP and tire wear this solution maybe something to consider.

Just my .02 cents

The O.E.M tires do have there limitions, that's why Barry has changed tires and others are still looking.

[ADE 1000]

I think that if hear one more person talk about drag radials on the street being terrible in the rain, I'm gonna PUKE!!! Where does that misconception come from anyway?


Drag radials are terrible in the rain (try not to puke. ;) ) I don't think thats a misconception. If a drag radial were good in the rain, whoever designed it did not try hard enough to make it a good drag radial.

I have 315/30-18 BFG G-Force drag radials for my Corvette, and they are downright treacherous in the rain. I know people who have spun out with these at fairly low speeds when getting caught in the rain. I have heard similiar horror stories about the BFG Comp TA drag radials and ET streets.

I have heard a lot of opposing views on the Nitto drag radials. Some say they are fine in the rain, some say they are scary in the rain. In any case, this situation would be the exception to the rule for drag radials. No wonder they don't hook as hard as the BFGs.

[BillyGman]

This is what the P305/45/18'' Nitto DRAG RADIALS did for me at the track:


60' times- 2 consecutive 1.6 seconds

330' time- 4.9 seconds

0-60 MPH on the street- 4.25 seconds.

And after about 6,000 miles of daily driving they work just as good in the rain on my MARAUDER as the factory stock radials did. So PULEEEEZE don't talk about how bad the Nitto drag radials are in the rain unless ofcourse you've tried them on a Marauder. I don't care what Mustang guys & Vette guys say about Nitto drag radials in the rain since their cars don't hook-up well anyway. My Vette was terrible in the rain even with standard radial tires. So as far as I'm concerned your point about Vettes w/DR's is inapplicable. On Marauders they do just fine as long as they still have tread on them. Mine are good after 6K. Perhaps they won't be after 12K, I dunno, but I'm not expecting drag radials to last for 12K miles anyway. That would be unrealistic for a soft rubber compound tire like DR's. And now I have to go :puke:

[ADE 1000]

This is what the P305/45/18'' Nitto DRAG RADIALS did for me at the track:


60' times- 2 consecutive 1.6 seconds

330' time- 4.9 seconds

0-60 MPH on the street- 4.25 seconds.

And after about 6,000 miles of daily driving they work just as good in the rain on my MARAUDER as the factory stock radials did. So PULEEEEZE don't talk about how bad the Nitto drag radials are in the rain unless ofcourse you've tried them on a Marauder. I don't care what Mustang guys & Vette guys say about Nitto drag radials in the rain since their cars don't hook-up well anyway. My Vette was terrible in the rain even with standard radial tires. So as far as I'm concerned your point about Vettes w/DR's is inapplicable. On Marauders they do just fine as long as they still have tread on them. Mine are good after 6K. Perhaps they won't be after 12K, I dunno, but I'm not expecting drag radials to last for 12K miles anyway. That would be unrealistic for a soft rubber compound tire like DR's. And now I have to go :puke:

Impressive times. :bows:

You are missing my point, I didn't say that Nittos were bad in the rain. You said drag radials being bad in the rain was a "misconception." I still totally disagree, but at this point we are just arguing semantics.

I am not sure what vettes you had, but current vettes are not bad in the rain at all. I don't drive mine in the rain, but the few times that I have gotten caught I have been impressed with how well it stuck. Mind you, this was with Eagle F-1 SuperCar tires that carry a warning in the owners manual not to drive in the rain with them.

[BillyGman]

My previous response was intended for both you and MAC, but the Vette that I had for 6 years, which I sold earlier this year was a 73 w/a 350 engine putting 307 HP to the rear wheels. I'm sure that your Z06 must fly similarly to my Marauder.

[SergntMac]

My previous response was intended for both you and MAC, but the Vette that I had for 6 years, which I sold earlier this year was a 73 w/a 350 engine putting 307 HP to the rear wheels. I'm sure that your Z06 must fly similarly to my Marauder.
You don't need to prove anything to me, Billy, I'll stick with the manfacturer's recommendations and I'm not a vette fan.

BTW, nice times too, congrats. That 1.6 60' time rivals what Zack and Lidio both have accomplished, but you could be losing some power at the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts? Maybe you should give the BFGs a try, you could break into the 11's yourself. With a 12.2x, maybe you just need a bit more bite down the track?

[BillyGman]

MAC, I think it's obvious that both Lidio's and Zack's cars (as well as your's) are no slouches. Because of the extreme gearing I have in the rear end of my Marauder, my car pulls the same 60' times as their cars do, and probably would stay with Zack's car up to the 330' mark. But because of their engines pushing a lot more boost pressure than mine, and therefore both also pushing 75 more HP to the wheels than my car is, they finish much stronger in the quartermile than my car because of the last 1/8th mile of the race.

That makes my car probably just as much fun on the street at a traffic light as I'm sure that their cars are, although not quite as impressive at the finish line of the 1/4 mile run as far as ET's and trap speeds. That's okay with me since I've decided to stay w/a more conservative boost pressure of merely 9.5 PSI. That doesn't neccessarily mean that anything that Zack or Lidio has done is wrong though. Just a matter of preference. The same goes w/my car as compared to Dave's car (aka "MI2QWIK4U").His car has yielded such a close ET to mine that the two are literally within hundeths of a second from eachother in the 1320 foot race. But by comparisant og his timeslip to mine, you'll find that while my car has a stronger start, and 330' time than his car does, his car comes on stronger in the last half of the 1320.

As far as the tires, I can honestly tell you that I've never had any traction problems at any of the tracks that I've been to since I've purchased my Marauder. I also believe that w/out further modifications, the only way that I'd be able to get my car into the 11's would be on a very cool day. Perhaps when it was in the 40 degree temperature range at the track. But that's fine w/me. I'm very satisfied having a dependable, and fully streetable DAILY driver that can accomplish 12.2 quartermile runs all day in 70 degree temperatures. What more can a guy who isn't a millionare and who only owns one car ask for out of a 4200 LB car?

[Wags]

Well, from my personal use of BFG DR's on my Chevelles over the years, they really suck in the rain. My Hoosier's are worse (but they are really slicks). I agree with Mac, in that I want the most out of a tire that it is intend for. That's why I run the slicks on the Chevelle when I go to the track. They hook up much better than any DR that I have used over the years. Granted, the Chevelle is a little lighter than the Marauder, and when I ran with the 502, I was also pushing around 590 hp. Just my opinion.

Wags

[BillyGman]

590 HP with a 68 chevelle big block....my favorite year of one of my favorite cars, and all with 590 HP!!!!! WAGS, you're killin' me!!!!!

[Wags]

BillyGman,

Yea, you don't see many '68 ones around, especially SS converts. The 502 isn't in there anymore. I sold it last year, along with the '55. The guy that bought the motor blew it up early in the summer. It was his 3rd motor in as many years (he has a problem thinking they can be revved up as much as a SB). I got a correct date-coded block (11/67, I have an early build), and built that for the car. It's only 400hp now, but still alot of fun to drive with the M21. This is my 4th Chevelle over the years, and I have to say my favourite one. Went to see a LS6 last year, but it was a bust. No build sheet, so no real proof of it being real. It had many non-correct items on it also. I put some pics of the '68 up on the site here last year. I think that they are still here. I also decided to go with the Trilogy SC for the Marauder. To me, it sounds like the way to go for what I want out of the car. Your setup sounds very close to what I'm planning to do, but with a little less gear. I drive 50+ mi./day on the highway, and want gears no more than the the ones that I have in there now. The roots style will give the low-end grunt that I want. Sorry for the ramble, but it's been awhile since I've been around!

Wags

[SergntMac]

Nice to hear from you again, Pete. Hope to see you soon.

[BillyGman]

WAGS, oh, believe me, I've looked at your Chevelle pics many times. I've always loved the classy small tail lights on that year as well as on the 66' Chevelle too. I wish that new cars would look more like that instead of having the big spaceship type looking tail light leneses that many of them have these days. I understand what you mean about the gears. The 4.56's are the uiltimate for the dragstrip on a Marauder, and the 4.10's are the best compromise for street and strip driving. Ofcourse w/the low-end grunt that the Trilogy kit gives the Marauder engine, you can stay w/the 3.55 gears as well as the stock stall speed too if you want to. But it's all about how much you want and what compromises you want to make. You can't have it all.


I think that if I ever raise the $$ for a big block Chevelle project, I'd go w/some Brodix, or Air Flow Research cylinder heads, 7/16" diameter chromemoly pushrods, tri-metal crankshaft bearings, Oliver forged connecting rods, J&E forged pistons, a forged Callies crankshaft, and a Merlin II monster block. I think that with that combination, I would have a big block that can be reved like a small block, and take the punishment, while at the same time have that big wide power band that no small block can deliver. the problem is, that my calculations bring all the parts and machining for such an engine to about $16K. So I guess this dream of mine might not happen for a long time (too rich for my blood right now).