Is the Marauder equipped with CDR's?

[MI2QWK4U]

CDR...Crash Data Recorder. Does anyone know for a fact if the Marauder is equipped with this type of data recorder. Would be nice to know what might be used against you in a court of law. Read the following article....

ARTICLE ON CDR'S (http://www.clickondetroit.com/print/3786478/detail.html?)

[Patrick]

That would be new to me!!!!

[jgc61sr2002]

I thought it was. :(

[David Morton]

As far as I know from my training at General Motors, ALL air-bag equipped cars have had, from the beginning, a sort of crash data recorder. It records the inputs from the sensors and actions taken by the driver like hitting the brakes, related to the event of an air bag deploying, and if it doesn't deploy, no record will be made.

That's my recollection.

[bigslim]

CDR...Crash Data Recorder. Does anyone know for a fact if the Marauder is equipped with this type of data recorder. Would be nice to know what might be used against you in a court of law. Read the following article....

ARTICLE ON CDR'S (http://www.clickondetroit.com/print/3786478/detail.html?)
I just saw that story on the local news about this. They said all Fords and GMs are equiped with this.

[Patrick]

I guess tomorrow I will go digging under the seats!!!! :dunno:

[merc406]

According to the story, their should be a mention of it in the owners manual.

[Bigdogjim]

According to the story, their should be a mention of it in the owners manual.

hey want to take bets as to how many don't read the book?

:lol: :lol:

[Lowell]

All Crown Vic and Grand marquis, 01 and up, are equipped according to www.harristechnical.com/downloads.pdf.

[Mike Poore]

All Crown Vic and Grand marquis, 01 and up, are equipped according to www.harristechnical.com/downloads.pdf. (http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads.pdf.)
I can see it now; after taking my MM for annual mandatory PA state inspection, there's a summons stating that on Sept. 25, 2004 at 3:15PM, that car was going XXX miles per hour. Seem unlikely? Don't bet on it. So, how do we unhook the &$%#@ thing? :mad:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

hey want to take bets as to how many don't read the book?

:lol: :lol:
First thing I did when I took delivery of the car was read the manual cover to cover. :coffee: Why wouldn't ya ? You want to know everything about your new ride, don't you? I saw no mention of a CDR and I just checked the index also and found nothing.:dunno:

[Mike Poore]

You want to know everything about your new ride, don't you? :dunno:
Everything I know about my MM, I learned on this site. The owner's manual is tedious beyond words. I did get it out when turning OFF the auto door locks, and programming the pushbuttons for the door thingey. I thought the warning about not backing over your children was especially helpful.:rolleyes:

[RF Overlord]

This is from pages 6 and 7 of a .pdf copy of the owner's manual that was sent to the Bunny Lady some time ago...I don't know where it came from, but I believe it's either a 2nd printing for the 300B or it's the Canadian version, as it's slightly different than the hard copy that came with my 300A...(it has more info in it)...

Data Recording
Computers in your vehicle are capable of recording detailed data
potentially including but not limited to information such as:
- the use of restraint systems including seat belts by the driver and
passengers,
- information about the performance of various systems and modules in
the vehicle, and
- information related to engine, throttle, steering, brake or other system
status.

Any of this information could potentially including information regarding
how the driver operates the vehicle potentially including but not limited
to information regarding vehicle speed, brake or accelerator application
or steering input. This information may be stored during regular
operation or in a crash or near crash event.
This stored information may be read out and used by:
- Ford Motor Company.
- service and repair facilities.
- law enforcement or government agencies.
- others who may assert a right or obtain your consent to know such
information.

[Mike Poore]

This stored information may be read out and used by:
- Ford Motor Company.
- service and repair facilities.
- law enforcement or government agencies.
- others who may assert a right or obtain your consent to know such
information.
1 - Ford Motor Company. (to void warrantee issues)
2 - service and repair facilities. (Ditto)
3 - law enforcement or government agencies. (Used to aid THEM in prosecutions)
4 - others (ambulance chasing attorneys and Insurance Companies)

My point here is; what possible benefit is this information to you, the consumer who's paying for this? Frankly, I'm not interested in supplying information to folks who WILL use the information against me. ie: Martha Stewert?:bricks:

[Scott Leininger]

As a cop, they do have. SOme can be downloaded with equipment departments can buy, but Fords box has to be sent in to ford to be read and they are very picky about reading the boxes, they have said it almost has to be a multipal fatal accident.

[jgc61sr2002]

As a cop, they do have. SOme can be downloaded with equipment departments can buy, but Fords box has to be sent in to ford to be read and they are very picky about reading the boxes, they have said it almost has to be a multipal fatal accident.


But the potential is there. Big brother is watching. That is :bs:

[SergntMac]

Like the article says, the CDR is there, and we have them in our MMs.

You can read the data with a Davis CarChip EX from the OBDII port.

http://www.davisnet.com/home_flash.asp

It's stored inside the restraint system brain box located under the passenger seat, and it cannot be erased. There is a limit to how much data it records, but at the present time, my CDR has all my "hard brake events" all the way back to 11/25/03.

When I read my CarChip files, a column named "accident log" is also present. It records the last 20 seconds of vehicle movement when a "hard brake" event is reported by sensors. My oldest file looks like this.

11/25/03 3:47 PM /Stop 1/Table/Elapsed Time/MPH
1 -0:00:19 30
2 -0:00:18 32
3 -0:00:17 33
4 -0:00:16 35
5 -0:00:15 35
6 -0:00:14 35
7 -0:00:13 36
8 -0:00:12 36
9 -0:00:11 37
10 -0:00:10 37
11 -0:00:09 34
12 -0:00:08 22
13 -0:00:07 17
14 -0:00:06 12
15 -0:00:05 10
16 -0:00:04 7
17 -0:00:03 6
18 -0:00:02 5
19 -0:00:01 1
20 0:00:00 0

My top speed was 37 miles per hour, and I suspect that I was in heavy traffic, and hit the brakes hard for some reason. However, if I had been on one of those "banzai" runs we seem to enjoy from time to time, the last 20 seconds of vehicle operation could be revealing.

9/10/04/4:29 PM /Stop 52/Table/Elapsed Time/MPH
1 -0:00:19 67
2 -0:00:18 80
3 -0:00:17 88
4 -0:00:16 98
5 -0:00:15 105
6 -0:00:14 114
7 -0:00:13 122
8 -0:00:12 114
9 -0:00:11 103
10 -0:00:10 93
11 -0:00:09 80
12 -0:00:08 71
13 -0:00:07 61
14 -0:00:06 52
15 -0:00:05 42
16 -0:00:04 34
17 -0:00:03 24
18 -0:00:02 13
19 -0:00:01 2
20 0:00:00 0

Looks bad eh? 122 miles an hour just before a hard brake event? Does going from 122 MPH to dead stop in 13 seconds mean panic stop? I dunno, but it's data taken from the CDR, and we know how this data can be twisted to mean almost anything to third parties. The article says it all.

BTW, this was a dyno pull related to my upper/lower intake mods, and I could prove that if necessary. Nonetheless, if someone, like maybe my insurance company, wanted to get a "profile" of how I drive before they insure me, this 411 could be misunderstood. Likewise for law enforcement, should I be involved in a serious crash. Both could make their cases on almost a year's worth of hard braking events.

I wouldn't put it past the insurance industry, or, law enforcement, to build a profile from this data. I have 65 hard brake events logged in just under a year. Just print them all out, and you get dates, times, tops speeds and so on. That's "profile" data, and it could come to this someday. Imagine an insurance company that won't insure you without a download every six months? Maybe the Traffic Court judge who puts you on probation for speeding, and requires you to report to the local PD for a download every 30 days. As long as I have reciepts and reports for all my "above the limit" fun, I'm cool with it. Besides, I don't think it can be disabled without tearing out the restraint system, and that's a federal crime. No thanks.

Of course, this is only half the story of my driving history, but it's the half they would dwell on, the moments before I hit the brakes hard.

F.Y.I.

[MERCMAN]

ok, what are our rights pertaining to this? Is there a subpoena required to retrieve this info? It would also seem to me that if something is recorded there has to be a way to erase it.

[bigslim]

I can see it now; after taking my MM for annual mandatory PA state inspection, there's a summons stating that on Sept. 25, 2004 at 3:15PM, that car was going XXX miles per hour. Seem unlikely? Don't bet on it. So, how do we unhook the &$%#@ thing? :mad:
It was said that it can't be disconnected. It is wired into your airbag system.

[SergntMac]

ok, what are our rights pertaining to this? Is there a subpoena required to retrieve this info? It would also seem to me that if something is recorded there has to be a way to erase it.
I don't know about erasing it, but it doesn't look possible right now. Moreover, I'm not a lawyer, but I've been working in the community for almost 30 years, and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last weekend. So...IMHO...

Your constitutional right to privacy is based on your "reasonable expections" for that. The best example is the "phone booth" test. Remember when phone booths had doors? Close that door and you are expressing your expectation of privacy, and expect no one to listen in. Leave it open, and you're not being reasonable about your expectation that someone won't listen to what they can hear. Today, with the advent of cell phone use everywhere, the refinement of "resonable expectation" is again, at risk.

Understanding that, your expectation for privacy over CDR data, is as reasonably secure as stuff you keep in your glove box or trunk area. With probable cause established and permission from the courts (warrant), your data can be had. It can be had by others too, who will most likely apply a "financial warrant" against you, by refusing repairs until you surrender the permission to read the CDR.

If your car is crashed or blown up and in the repair shop, your expectation of privacy is diminished, unless you otherwise specifically express that. It's the repair shop's expectation of privacy now, your car is in their care, and they make that decision. Likewise, if it's a warranty claim, your dealership is the custodian of the data, and can use it in their course of business with you, the manfacturer, insurance companies, and law enforcement. Unless you say no in advance, repair shops can pry. However, they cannot divulge to LE without probable cause for seizure established, or, cooperation of the repair shop within their custodial authority. In short, the cops can ask, and the repair shop can give it up, and that's not a search, or, a seizure, it's a surrender.

In the grand spectrum of things, this CDR data is new territory, and it's use is just beginning to test legal theory and practice. The opening story here shows how it can be used to discover the truth, but how it can be abused is just around the corner, and legal test cases take time. Like anything else, we develop the technology first, use it, then abuse it, before regulating it.

IMHO...Insurance companies could start the ball rollng simply by offering deep discounts to customers with good driving records, and on a voluntary basis. It won't be long, though, until a majority signs up, and the customers who refuse will pay higher premiums until the numbers are so small, it's "no download, no insurance," and none of this will be easy to regulate, because it's private business between you and the insurance "cops."

For law enforcement, the case law is there and the rules established, just change a few words in the petition. Show probable cause, get a court's approval, and it's seized, even when your car is parked in your own garage.

This is IMHO, so, I'll let the lawyers among us have at it, K?

[SouLRioT]

This info isnt new to the site, there have been many threads about this (most have been shut down). What I've read the information in it is the property of the manufacturer, not the vehicle owner. I think we need to get over it now, eyes and ears are everywhere now.

[merc406]

This info isnt new to the site, there have been many threads about this (most have been shut down). What I've read the information in it is the property of the manufacturer, not the vehicle owner. I think we need to get over it now, eyes and ears are everywhere now.



Property of the car company, that just don't seem right to me, just my observation. :bs: They should pay for transporting it around then.

[Patrick]

Property of the car company, that just don't seem right to me, just my observation. :bs: They should pay for transporting it around then.

This is strange............