What do you think is the limit on a stock S/C MM 4.6 32V motor

[maraudernkc]

What do you beleive to be the limit of HP that a stock super charged MM with the 4.6 32V motor can handle running 91 octane gas? Not the transmission. Assuming that the car is tuned properly and you are an aggresive driver but do not run the sh$$ out of her everyday.

91 to 93 octane pump gas

Rear Wheel Horsepower

Sorry!

[stevengerard]

don't know but wiling to test it! :banana2:

[SergntMac]

I AM testing it...

[Mike Poore]

What do you beleive to be the limit of HP that a stock super charged MM with the 4.6 32V motor can handle? Not the transmission. Assuming that the car is tuned properly and you are an aggresive driver but do not run the sh$$ out of her everyday.
Rear wheels, or crankshaft?:confused:

[Fourth Horseman]

Rear wheels, or crankshaft?:confused:

I'm guessing he means crank horsepower.

[FordNut]

Rear wheels, or crankshaft?:confused:
Either way, I don't believe the scale we have to vote on goes high enough right now. We've seen some with over 450 RWHP already. I'll say 500 is a good stopping point.

[BruteForce]

...you are an aggresive driver but do not run the sh$$ out of her everyday.

I believe this is what you call a Mutually Exclusive argument in probability theory. Highly unlikely for both to be true. :lol:

[FiveO]

Lidio is pushing 500 to the wheels with his nitrous shots.

No sign of slowing down.

I'm running 426rwhp.....and am shooting for 450.

On an ongoing regular basis...I'd say its somewhere between 450-500.

[Shankin]

The big variable here is on what gas. It would probably live a long healthy life at 500 if you use race gas when you beat on it.

[MarauderMark]

If your running 450rwhp are'nt you suppose to add 20%to that figure and that is what your hp is @ the crank.am i correct?
so at that thought lidio is pushing 600hp under the hood alone and with his car so far so good:burnout: .

[FiveO]

Yup....I was assuming the poll was to the rear wheels.

[glassman99]

I will volunteer to test any vehicle over 450hp. :banana2:

[FordNut]

If your running 450rwhp are'nt you suppose to add 20%to that figure and that is what your hp is @ the crank.am i correct?
so at that thought lidio is pushing 600hp under the hood alone and with his car so far so good:burnout: .
There's some disagreement on the formula. The stocker loses about 20%, which is 60 hp, due to drivetrain loss. So when you up the power, is it still 20% loss or is it the same 60 hp? I always used to think it was 20% but now I feel otherwise.

I now believe than nothing has been changed to add friction or increase losses to the drivetrain, so you should just add 60 hp back to the rwhp numbers. This is the logic I have read in Corky Bell's books and it makes sense to me.

[SergntMac]

The big variable here is on what gas. It would probably live a long healthy life at 500 if you use race gas when you beat on it.
And therein lies the rub, eh? Many of us would love to exploit the MMs horsepower potential on a bone stock block, but what about the lure of the open road? Unless you carry your own special mix along with you, you may get stuck drinking what's available. I've been stuck between 91 octane and pushing her to the next pump, so, I have to settle for a "less than maximum" tune, or, leave her home...Not.

IMHO...Detonation is like tooth decay, every "ping" chips away at it. Chip, chip, chip...Until teeny-tiny chips become chunks, and when it chunks, things chunking off jam. Valves get stuck open, pistons ram into open valves, rods are not flexible, and...Well, y'all get the picture, it's "can someone call me a cab?" time.

If you want an MM you can drive anywhere, anytime, and do anything with,
you going to have to compromise on the dial-in stuff. Besides, two identically built MMs will deliver different power, and different reliability.

BTW, I kinda presumed the poll was about RWHP, it's rare we speak of that published BHP, yes?

[MI2QWK4U]

I am approaching 470 RWHP on a STOCK motor and Trilogy Eaton Supercharger with the smallest pully Lidio uses on it, and since it is tuned safely, I am not too worried about it. The only think I might add over the winter is the Kooks headers, which should put me right at 500 at the rear wheels. I have seen and heard of people running their Mach 1s and other 4.6s up to 550+ RWPH with no failures. People need to get used to the idea that tuning is what kills a motor in 99% of failures Hopefully I will get to see what it runs this week if I get to the track, I havent run it since the smaller pully went on, and it feels real good. If the weather holds out and the car hooks, we expect high 11s. With the Kooks, and maybe a 50 shot I can catch up to Lidio!

[MI2QWK4U]

And therein lies the rub, eh? Many of us would love to exploit the MMs horsepower potential on a bone stock block, but what about the lure of the open road? Unless you carry your own special mix along with you, you may get stuck drinking what's available. I've been stuck between 91 octane and pushing her to the next pump, so, I have to settle for a "less than maximum" tune, or, leave her home...Not.

IMHO...Detonation is like tooth decay, every "ping" chips away at it. Chip, chip, chip...Until teeny-tiny chips become chunks, and when it chunks, things chunking off jam. Valves get stuck open, pistons ram into open valves, rods are not flexible, and...Well, y'all get the picture, it's "can someone call me a cab?" time.

If you want an MM you can drive anywhere, anytime, and do anything with,
you going to have to compromise on the dial-in stuff. Besides, two identically built MMs will deliver different power, and different reliability.

BTW, I kinda presumed the poll was about RWHP, it's rare we speak of that published BHP, yes?


This is a good point...good fuel. Detonation in a supercharged 4.6 is a death sentance in most cases. A good tuner will find that point where it might happen based on the fuel you are using, and toning it back a tad from there. For everyday driving my chip has a 93-94 octane which yields me about 435-440 RWHP. I also have a program for the strip, which is slightly different from a street tune, and plays with shift points, torque converter lockup and other things that are Lidios personal touches that he gets paid to share with folks. My race gas program nets me between 465-470 RWHP! This program is based on using premium sunoco 100 unleaded race gas, which is refined a couple of steps more than pump gas. It is more consistant and pure and allows the tuner more latitude with programming for power and be less concerned about bad gas. But with the programable chips nowadays, I have yet another program that is based on the scenario of getting a tank of really bad gas, or 89 octane mislabled as 94 octane. It adjusts timing to remove any hint of detonation and allows you to drive your car safely on the lower octane gas, and still yields my eaton supercharged Marauder 390-395 RWHP! Different parts of the contry may not have access to good quality high octane fuel, the tuning allows you to compensate for that.

This is why a multi program chip is SO MUCH better than a handheld tuner thing. My car has the three programs listed above, PLUS a valet mode, and soon to be developed program for 110 octane race gas that should give the car 30-45 more RWHP. So what sarge says is true, it would be nice, and some of us have it. It allows you to drive your supercharged marauder on whatever is available with ease and peace of mind. I reach down, and turn the switch to whatever program I want, that fast and that easy. Any Questions, let me know.

[FordNut]

This is a good point...good fuel. Detonation in a supercharged 4.6 is a death sentance in most cases. A good tuner will find that point where it might happen based on the fuel you are using, and toning it back a tad from there. For everyday driving my chip has a 93-94 octane which yields me about 435-440 RWHP. I also have a program for the strip, which is slightly different from a street tune, and plays with shift points, torque converter lockup and other things that are Lidios personal touches that he gets paid to share with folks. My race gas program nets me between 465-470 RWHP! This program is based on using premium sunoco 100 unleaded race gas, which is refined a couple of steps more than pump gas. It is more consistant and pure and allows the tuner more latitude with programming for power and be less concerned about bad gas. But with the programable chips nowadays, I have yet another program that is based on the scenario of getting a tank of really bad gas, or 89 octane mislabled as 94 octane. It adjusts timing to remove any hint of detonation and allows you to drive your car safely on the lower octane gas, and still yields my eaton supercharged Marauder 390-395 RWHP! Different parts of the contry may not have access to good quality high octane fuel, the tuning allows you to compensate for that.

This is why a multi program chip is SO MUCH better than a handheld tuner thing. My car has the three programs listed above, PLUS a valet mode, and soon to be developed program for 110 octane race gas that should give the car 30-45 more RWHP. So what sarge says is true, it would be nice, and some of us have it. It allows you to drive your supercharged marauder on whatever is available with ease and peace of mind. I reach down, and turn the switch to whatever program I want, that fast and that easy. Any Questions, let me know.
Agreed, fuel is a good point. Even though I'm still n/a, I have a chip with 2 programs. Race gas, 100 octane Sunoco was used for that tune, and premium pump gas, 93 octane Amoco was used for the tune. I do believe what Mac says is important, so soon I will have another program for 87 octane fuel just in case somebody (like maybe my wife) drives the car and puts in the wrong gas.

[maraudernkc]

Yes, add 20% for at the crank figures




If your running 450rwhp are'nt you suppose to add 20%to that figure and that is what your hp is @ the crank.am i correct?
so at that thought lidio is pushing 600hp under the hood alone and with his car so far so good:burnout: .

[maraudernkc]

I agree with you fordnut




There's some disagreement on the formula. The stocker loses about 20%, which is 60 hp, due to drivetrain loss. So when you up the power, is it still 20% loss or is it the same 60 hp? I always used to think it was 20% but now I feel otherwise.

I now believe than nothing has been changed to add friction or increase losses to the drivetrain, so you should just add 60 hp back to the rwhp numbers. This is the logic I have read in Corky Bell's books and it makes sense to me.

[GordonB]

One of our members who sells the "Panther Interceptor" badges has an electronic Methanol hookup that uses the Washer Fluid tank as his "Methanol" (i.e. 50/50 mix) supply to guard against detonation.

The other item that can help the detonation problem is the New for '04 Dual Knock Sensors along with new programming.

Installed together with good (read that 100 Octane) gas and 10 pounds of boost on the SC (for my money, read that Trilogy and Lidio) should yield close to 460 at the REAR Wheels, IMHO. This presupposes that you have done everything else to allow the motor to Breathe Right (In and Out).

If you start playing with Cams & Heads, etc, then you could add more HP & TQ.

GordonB

[jakdad]

What do you beleive to be the limit of HP that a stock super charged MM with the 4.6 32V motor can handle running 91 octane gas? Not the transmission. Assuming that the car is tuned properly and you are an aggresive driver but do not run the sh$$ out of her everyday.

91 to 93 octane pump gas

Rear Wheel Horsepower

Sorry! My take is that 460 is about all you want on a daily driver that is raced on a regular basis. These bottom ends arn't designed to handle a lot of HP on a regular basis. Can they be tuned to 600+ HP? Yes and the engine will not jump out of the car but you're skating on thin ice.
We have found that 500 HP is the limit on the stock bottom end in the Lightnings. They can be tuned to 700+ HP but you will be engine shopping very soon.

[NAVCHAP]

Recommend not to exceed 450rwhp on a car that is driven or raced regularly. PM me for details. Too much info to post here.

[Dr Caleb]

I would say 2000 hp.

For 1/4 mile only. ;)

[SergntMac]

The other item that can help the detonation problem is the New for '04 Dual Knock Sensors along with new programming. GordonB
Sorry, Gordon, but your suggestion is not a "thumbs up" mod. Zack and I both followed this plan, and it's not a smooth upgrade. While the '04 EEC offers greater timing features and "elbow room," adding the second knock cop actually doubles detonation detection AND enforcement, which results in more loss of power in WOT. Moreover, the differences between '03 and '04 programs are so widespread, you could spend months (as I have) working out the bugs. You're not just adding an alarm system, you're mucking with everything EEC controlled, including tranny and fuel systems. Some controls are not compatabile at all, not to mention the confusion at the dealership when another EEC dependent system (in my case PATS and air bags) act up.

It was an exploration that looked very interesting on the engineer's notebook, but after the fact, if I could undo this mod, I would.

[BillyGman]

Sorry, Gordon, but your suggestion is not a "thumbs up" mod. Zack and I both followed this plan, and it's not a smooth upgrade. While the '04 EEC offers greater timing features and "elbow room," adding the second knock cop actually doubles detonation detection AND enforcement, which results in more loss of power in WOT. Moreover, the differences between '03 and '04 programs are so widespread, you could spend months (as I have) working out the bugs. You're not just adding an alarm system, you're mucking with everything EEC controlled, including tranny and fuel systems. Some controls are not compatabile at all, not to mention the confusion at the dealership when another EEC dependent system (in my case PATS and air bags) act up.

It was an exploration that looked very interesting on the engineer's notebook, but after the fact, if I could undo this mod, I would.Great info MAC. I appreciate your honesty on that topic. That is exactly the type of info that helps all of us out. Thanks for being candid about your folly. After all, the advancement of the modification process of our cars is more important than pride. U-DA-Man!!! :up:

Dave, I appreciate your post as well. Good info there about the triple position chip. I'll have to consider that mod.

[GordonB]

SergntMac & others,
Guess I stand corrected for suggesting the Dual Knock sensors retrofitted on an '03 car.
My Methanol/water injection suggestion still stands as a way to reduce/protect against engine knock, though.
The other comment I must make here is that the '04 oputs out more power UNmodified than does an '03 -- I have the dyno nbrs that show it. And BTW, my '03 Blue had about 6000 miles on it when we dynoed it at Indy and '04 Red only had about 2500 miles on it when I dynoed it in Sept at Kauffman Motorsports.

GordonB

[BillyGman]

Gordon, your comments are duely noted I'm sure. However, about the water injection, the one drawback to that I believe is that if someone gets a more aggressive tune which relies on water injection to avoid detonation, then driving w/such a tune in a street vehicle can be dangerous to the engine since it requires constant care to prevent the water/methonol supply from running out. because obviously in that case, once your small water tank runs out, your engine will begin to ping, and that would be bad.

[FordNut]

Gordon, your comments are duely noted I'm sure. However, about the water injection, the one drawback to that I believe is that if someone gets a more aggressive tune which relies on water injection to avoid detonation, then driving w/such a tune in a street vehicle can be dangerous to the engine since it requires constant care to prevent the water/methonol supply from running out. because obviously in that case, once your small water tank runs out, your engine will begin to ping, and that would be bad.I'm working on one of these systems myself. There are output signals available that will signal low water level/pressure/flow which can be used to automatically switch a dual program chip to the less agressive tune, eliminating the worries.

[SergntMac]

Thanks for being candid about your folly. After all, the advancement of the modification process of our cars is more important than pride.
Folly? Pride? Is this what you think of me?

It was taken on as a serious project, with expectations that it would benefit us all. My pride has nothing to do with, Billy, when it's important 411 to my fellow owners. The project was successful in developing more power, Zack is proving that now. At at under 500 bucks, bang for the buck is okay, however, the PITA factor not revealed until we were well past the point of no return, quickly turned this mod into a "don't bother" mod, IMHO.

If I try something and it doesn't work, so what. I tried the Mickey Tompson ET Streets on my MM at the track, and also found that to be displeasing, but they seem to work well when there is less power to the ground, so be it. I didn't pick a bad tire, just not the best tire for my application. At least other here will have my experience to debate before they forge ahead. Keeping something a secret because I might be embarassed over my...folly, well, that's not me. It's not a matter of pride, it's more like what owners do to help each other, isn't it?

Whoa...Maybe I got my head up my azz afterall?

[BillyGman]

. At least other here will have my experience to debate before they forge ahead. Keeping something a secret because I might be embarassed over my...folly, well, that's not me. It's not a matter of pride, it's more like what owners do to help each other, isn't it?

Exactly MAC. That was precisely my point. Perhaps "folly" was the wrong word for me to use. I think it's more a matter of trial & error. But I stand by my use of the word "pride". Because that's simply human nature, and is NOT just a word that I was using to describe you alone. If any of us choose to perform any modifications to our cars, and one or more of those mods doesn't turn out as well as we had hoped, or they didn't produce the kind of results that would justify our recommending to others to do the same, we're then faced w/the decision to be honest about that, or to save face and pretend like our modification decision netted the best results. I for one refuse to do the latter. If I do something to my car, and I don't like something about the results, or I cannot recommend that others do the same, then I'm perfectly open about that. But not all high performance car owners are like that. Some of them just won't give in to pride and admit to others that something they did hasn't netted the results that they had hoped for. But you've been honest and straight forward about the pros and cons about this mod in question. And that's what I meant by my previous set of comments. That's all MAC. I was being sincere. No need to get defensive on me guy. Because I was commending you, not condenming you. ;)

[BillyGman]

I'm working on one of these systems myself. There are output signals available that will signal low water level/pressure/flow which can be used to automatically switch a dual program chip to the less agressive tune, eliminating the worries.That would be the only way to go if somebody chooses the water injection IMO.

[maraudernkc]

I think some things that kill our MM motor when you S/C is the following:

10:1 Compression Rations
Cast Crank
Not the good Cobra rods
Aluminum Block

These are all not S/C user friendly. I am going to heep the boost down on my own ride and make sure she is a tad bit rich.



I am approaching 470 RWHP on a STOCK motor and Trilogy Eaton Supercharger with the smallest pully Lidio uses on it, and since it is tuned safely, I am not too worried about it. The only think I might add over the winter is the Kooks headers, which should put me right at 500 at the rear wheels. I have seen and heard of people running their Mach 1s and other 4.6s up to 550+ RWPH with no failures. People need to get used to the idea that tuning is what kills a motor in 99% of failures Hopefully I will get to see what it runs this week if I get to the track, I havent run it since the smaller pully went on, and it feels real good. If the weather holds out and the car hooks, we expect high 11s. With the Kooks, and maybe a 50 shot I can catch up to Lidio!

[BillyGman]

I think some things that kill our MM motor when you S/C is the following:

10:1 Compression Rations
Cast Crank
Not the good Cobra rods
Aluminum Block

These are all not S/C user friendly. I am going to heep the boost down on my own ride and make sure she is a tad bit rich. The air/fuel ratio on a S/Ced engine is important to the longevity of the engine, but the ignition timing is even MORE important.

[SergntMac]

I think some things that kill our MM motor when you S/C is the following:
10:1 Compression Ratio
Cast Crank
Not the good Cobra rods
Aluminum Block

I'll agree with half of what you mention. The pistons and rods are not desireable for racing, supercharging, or, long term hard use, IMHO, and mostly due to our compression, and lack of proper fit. IMHO too, cast crank and block are more than adequate, they just need to be "tuned up" so to speak.

Pistons are the weakest link in your list, and once they start to break up, it's a chain reaction that reveals weaknesses in the rods. Once a piston gets left of center, the rod takes a beating and following that, the crank suffers. Sucking a valve will cause a likewise chain reaction. I've seen zero crank/block failures without a blown piston or a dropped valve leading the parade. Crank and block are collateral damage, not the cause of a blown engine. In fact, the '03/'04 Cobra blocks are the same as our MM blocks, aluminum, and any Cobra block/crank will break just as fast as our MM stuff, given the right conditions.

The real culprit here is not what's durable, but money. A serious engine build for severe duty, needs only to lower the compression a tad if supercharged, add quality forged pistons and rods with likewise accessories (wrist pins, rings, blahblahblah...). A clean up bore on the block, and balance the cast crank and rotating assembly. This is engine building, starting from scratch and doing it once. Follow a blueprint.

The problem here, is that once Joey Racer blows his OEM engine, he's more likely to just run out and buy a Cobra short block, because that's cheaper than doing a custom build of the bottom end. This is engine replacement, and it doesn't leave Joey Racer in any better shape because the short block he bought isn't any better tuned than the one he broke. The replacement block is just as likely to be out of balance and not up to snuff as the OEM block, but because it's "stronger," it puts up with Joey's abuse until he either rebuilds again, or, dumps the car. I'm surrounded by 2V and 4V Mustangs, and the younger "know it all" crowd, and they all do the same thing. Lots of broken crap for sale around here.

If you want to do things better, buy a Cobra short block, it's got the stronger internals installed.

But, if you want to do things right, take your MM engine down and build it following a plan that fits your needs. It will cost you a few more dollars, but you'll do it once, and get what you want.

BTW, a serious build by a reputable race shop isn't that expensive. 2.5K should cover all the good parts, 4K if you want them to build the balanced short block right, and 5.5K if you just want to drop your MM at the door. This should deliver a MM engine that can handle up to 15 pounds of boost and deliver 500 RWHP. Of course, it's way easy to spend more...

[MAD-3R]

I'll agree with half of what you mention. The pistons and rods are not desireable for racing, supercharging, or, long term hard use, IMHO, and mostly due to our compression, and lack of proper fit. IMHO too, cast crank and block are more than adequate, they just need to be "tuned up" so to speak.

Pistons are the weakest link in your list, and once they start to break up, it's a chain reaction that reveals weaknesses in the rods. Once a piston gets left of center, the rod takes a beating and following that, the crank suffers. Sucking a valve will cause a likewise chain reaction. I've seen zero crank/block failures without a blown piston or a dropped valve leading the parade. Crank and block are collateral damage, not the cause of a blown engine. In fact, the '03/'04 Cobra blocks are the same as our MM blocks, aluminum, and any Cobra block/crank will break just as fast as our MM stuff, given the right conditions.

The real culprit here is not what's durable, but money. A serious engine build for severe duty, needs only to lower the compression a tad if supercharged, add quality forged pistons and rods with likewise accessories (wrist pins, rings, blahblahblah...). A clean up bore on the block, and balance the cast crank and rotating assembly. This is engine building, starting from scratch and doing it once. Follow a blueprint.

The problem here, is that once Joey Racer blows his OEM engine, he's more likely to just run out and buy a Cobra short block, because that's cheaper than doing a custom build of the bottom end. This is engine replacement, and it doesn't leave Joey Racer in any better shape because the short block he bought isn't any better tuned than the one he broke. The replacement block is just as likely to be out of balance and not up to snuff as the OEM block, but because it's "stronger," it puts up with Joey's abuse until he either rebuilds again, or, dumps the car. I'm surrounded by 2V and 4V Mustangs, and the younger "know it all" crowd, and they all do the same thing. Lots of broken crap for sale around here.

If you want to do things better, buy a Cobra short block, it's got the stronger internals installed.

But, if you want to do things right, take your MM engine down and build it following a plan that fits your needs. It will cost you a few more dollars, but you'll do it once, and get what you want.

BTW, a serious build by a reputable race shop isn't that expensive. 2.5K should cover all the good parts, 4K if you want them to build the balanced short block right, and 5.5K if you just want to drop your MM at the door. This should deliver a MM engine that can handle up to 15 pounds of boost and deliver 500 RWHP. Of course, it's way easy to spend more...
:wave: :whistle:

[MI2QWK4U]

I think some things that kill our MM motor when you S/C is the following:

10:1 Compression Rations
Cast Crank
Not the good Cobra rods
Aluminum Block

These are all not S/C user friendly. I am going to heep the boost down on my own ride and make sure she is a tad bit rich.


I dont know if I agree with the whole "not S/C user friendly" thing. While we beat to death the shortcomings of our pistons, rods, etc, you need to remember that there have been NO engine failures on any Trilogy equipped cars, cant speak for vortechs cause I neither care for the setup and dont waste any time keeping up with the plight of the Vortech equipped Marauders. As you know from other posts, there are almost 60 Trilogy cars out there being beat on a daily basis, thats twice the number of any other S/C setup. I know a few Trilogy's are running almost 14 lbs of boost with no problems, maybe a vortech owner can chime up and we can see what the boost levels are on a vortech Marauder. So I dont buy that you have to only run 9 lbs of boost in this motor, thats bullsh*it. I think that people that know this aluminum block has been upgraded in strength and durability know its better than the older aluminum 4.6 blocks, and can safely handle 15-16 lbs of boost with a good tune and GOOD 100 Octane gas.
I think that some people here don't actually know the first thing about our block, have never seen one blown up from irresponsible tuning, or just plain making too much horsepower. Untill you tear down one of our motors and understand its strengths, and weaknesses from a first hand viewpoint, it might be a good idea to hold back on saying what is what, and what is too much for whatever.
To say that our blocks cant handle more than 8-9 lbs of boost is irresponsible and just not right, or break out the Manual that indicates that is the truth.

[maraudernkc]

SergntMac, how many mile do you have on your MM with the S/C and what boost and octane do you run?

I have had a few engine builders tell me that anything over 420RWHP is pushing the limits of our motors. What are your thoughts?



I AM testing it...

[maraudernkc]

How many miles are on it?




Lidio is pushing 500 to the wheels with his nitrous shots.

No sign of slowing down.

I'm running 426rwhp.....and am shooting for 450.

On an ongoing regular basis...I'd say its somewhere between 450-500.

[SergntMac]

SergntMac, how many mile do you have on your MM with the S/C and what boost and octane do you run? I have had a few engine builders tell me that anything over 420RWHP is pushing the limits of our motors. What are your thoughts?
I agree with your builder's opinion, there is a "safe" power ceiling, and I'm respecting that limit.

450 RWHP is my personal limit, considering my tuning and octane pump gas stability. Once I did achieve 455 RWHP on the dyno, I had second thoughts about it all until I could learn more, and I have. I posted those thoughts ^ there, the Intech 4V has it's limits, and I'm learning about reasonable alternatives.

Right now, I'm "detuned" to 440 RWHP/399 RWTQ. I use Citgo 93 octane pump gas, and I'm pushing 9.5 pounds of boost. I'm not going to answer the mileage question, I don't think it's relevant. But, it's safe to say that if there isn't any ice on the ground, I don't leave her home.

Your "mileage" question inspires thought, and I don't see how gross mileage enters into it. My KB #1x is the first ever Marauder/Intech 4V anywhere to be supercharged. It logged over 16, 000 miles in hard testing before retirement 2 Nov. 2002. Since then, it's traveled all over the country, and hosted hundreds of guest drivers, all feeling different about how to drive the car, and what it's limits may be. Moreover, I've got dyno reports on record across the country, not just stuff done at one buddy's shop.

My #1x has been used, heavy and hard, more often that not. Adding up my test dynos, tuning dynos and real time 1/4 mile track events, this car has well over 300 12 second bursts of hard driving under it's belt, not to mention my own "on ramp" stuff, and my own cross-country style of driving. So, I don't think gross mileage has much to do with predicting durability, once you consider how any of those miles may get collected. I should follow the areospace and marine industries and track hours.

The "centrifugal vs. roots" voice has been heard here, and it's claiming that X number of roots based Marauders are out on the blacktop, and without complaint. Yeah, okay, ummm...likewise the centrifugals. Add up the Reinhart kits and KB builds, and there are more centrifugals out there chewing up pavement than roots, and not one blown engine. Yet...By either of them.

In fact, the few episodes of serious problems with the Intech 4V that have led to a full engine replacement that we have read about here over the past two years, NONE of them were supercharged by anyone. None...Zero, zip, nada, K? Therefore, I find this statistic amusingly irrelevant to the point at large.

And, that point is, that the base engine we build on is what we are questioning here and I agree that 450 RWHP is the safe limit for maximum longevity when power is added by supercharging. Moreover, I must consider that the two supercharger styles represented here may be measuring boost in quite different ways. (Please, no more "I should be" stats, either you got it, or not.) That said, the longevity we (supercharged MMs) may expect to see over N/A MMs, is cut in half. All we need is the time to see it all play out, and with hope that when a failure does occur, the owner plays fair with us in full disclosure.

[jspradii]

Simple. Over 500 rwhp on a stcok motor/trans combo is FAILURE. Period. Car's not built for stronger.

[jakdad]

I am approaching 470 RWHP on a STOCK motor and Trilogy Eaton Supercharger with the smallest pully Lidio uses on it, and since it is tuned safely, I am not too worried about it. The only think I might add over the winter is the Kooks headers, which should put me right at 500 at the rear wheels. I have seen and heard of people running their Mach 1s and other 4.6s up to 550+ RWPH with no failures. You must remember that the Mach I is 700 pounds+ lighter than the MM. This helps the longevity of any machine when you are not pulling an additional 700 pounds of dead weight. I would think that if you wanted to race a non SC 4.6, the Mach I would be the weapon of choice because of the weight difference. Since our cars are equipped with the Mach I engines, I just dont see the any reason to pack the extra pounds on a race vehicle.

[MI2QWK4U]

You must remember that the Mach I is 700 pounds+ lighter than the MM. This helps the longevity of any machine when you are not pulling an additional 700 pounds of dead weight. I would think that if you wanted to race a non SC 4.6, the Mach I would be the weapon of choice because of the weight difference. Since our cars are equipped with the Mach I engines, I just dont see the any reason to pack the extra pounds on a race vehicle.


Thats a very good point, and exactly what I'm doing. My 04 Mach 1 runs low 13's all day long in stock condition except 4:10 gears and a chip, which isnt bad for an automatic Mach 1. Dynoed at 275 at the wheels and is the perfect choice for the kenne belle supercharger. Still, the Marauder is safe on a good tune up to 500 at the wheels, that means just that...a good safe tune.

[jakdad]

Thats a very good point, and exactly what I'm doing. My 04 Mach 1 runs low 13's all day long in stock condition except 4:10 gears and a chip, which isnt bad for an automatic Mach 1. Dynoed at 275 at the wheels and is the perfect choice for the kenne belle supercharger. Still, the Marauder is safe on a good tune up to 500 at the wheels, that means just that...a good safe tune. Congrats on the Mach I. Great car. I wish Ford would keep that package in the Mustang line up.
:( :( :(