Drilled/Slotted rotors on ebay - thoughts??

[Directedby]

Saw these on ebay. They look good and the price is right ($165 for all four plus $45 to ship). And the seller has sold hundreds of rotors to many happy customers.

Does anyone think these are the same rotors sold on NAPA?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7929329888&category=33564

[FiveO]

No...no...no.

I read, in a previous thread here on MM.net....that these were not a good choice.

Do a search for Rotors...and see what comes up.

Todd at TCE (the brake guy) made a few comments about them....and he is a brake guru from my understanding.

Just my observations....and my memory!

[MERCMAN]

this person was a member her and was banned for hijacking several threads and vendor violations. I don't think anyone from here purchased these rotors. "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is"

[maraudernkc]

That's a heck of a price if they work. The guy does have excellent feedback




Saw these on ebay. They look good and the price is right ($165 for all four plus $45 to ship). And the seller has sold hundreds of rotors to many happy customers.

Does anyone think these are the same rotors sold on NAPA?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7929329888&category=33564

[jgc61sr2002]

Paul - That is a very good price. I have seen them several times on Ebay and I think they were a no sale. Sometimes more is less. They may be a low quality imported rotor.

[toncan]

I purchased a set and they are everything he says they are. I am very impressed.

[jgc61sr2002]

I purchased a set and they are everything he says they are. I am very impressed.

That's good to hear. Thanks.

[TechHeavy]

Saw these on ebay. They look good and the price is right ($165 for all four plus $45 to ship). And the seller has sold hundreds of rotors to many happy customers.

Does anyone think these are the same rotors sold on NAPA?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7929329888&category=33564
I just purchased these rotors which will be delivered Tuesday of this week. I'll post again after I test them out.

[SergntMac]

I just purchased these rotors which will be delivered Tuesday of this week. I'll post again after I test them out.
Why? Were your OEM rotors worn or damaged? Are these rotors better, and if so, how? What brake pads and calipers will you use with them?

I know that's a lot of questions, so, thanks in advance.

[FiveO]

I remember when the gent that posted this info was banned...his tactics were not good.

It would be interesting to see a long term evaluation of his product(s).

[Patrick]

I remember when the gent that posted this info was banned...his tactics were not good.

It would be interesting to see a long term evaluation of his product(s).

The advice I give myself............ You pay for what you get!!!!

[MarauderMark]

Well it seems to me that if you were going to sell your car and wanted it to have the Bling Bling look then put them on and don't say anything to anyone(not that i say this is ok but people do things like this).but to but them for your personal enjoyement they may only last you for a month or so.There is a thread about the vendor and those rotors do a search before you buy..and the last time they were on ebay it was for $185.00 shipped

[martyo]

This is just my opinion, but if I was looking to save money, I wouldn't start by cutting corners on the brakes that reel in a 4,500 pound car.

[TechHeavy]

This is just my opinion, but if I was looking to save money, I wouldn't start by cutting corners on the brakes that reel in a 4,500 pound car.
Guys, any high-performance rotors add additional stopping power. These may be lower-priced if they're made in Taiwan, but I researched them, (as I do everything before I buy it.... drove my ex-wife crazy). They are aluminum, (lighter than stock) zinc-coated, cross-drilled and slotted. They are supposed to increase stopping distance, (not to mention remaining cooler due to greater heat dissipation) by about 20%. I have a friend at work who installed some on his Yukon since his heavy chrome rims were making it hard for him to slow down quickly. He swears by them claiming they made a huge difference.

When my Trilogy is installed I just want to know I'll be able to stop as well as possible.
The drawback is that cross-drilled and slotted rotors chew up brake pads at an alarming rate. Therefore, only semi-metallic pads are recommended with these rotors, (or any high-performance rotors for that matter). For good measure, I went the extra step and ordered Hawk Compound High-Performance pads.

Like I said before, I'll post again after I install them and give my honest opinion of the results.

[MERCMAN]

This is just my opinion, but if I was looking to save money, I wouldn't start by cutting corners on the brakes that reel in a 4,500 pound car.


A legal mind always can always be counted on for a logical opinion!!

Right there with you Marty

[Directedby]

Guys, any high-performance rotors add additional stopping power. These may be lower-priced if they're made in Taiwan, but I researched them, (as I do everything before I buy it.... drove my ex-wife crazy). They are aluminum, (lighter than stock) zinc-coated, cross-drilled and slotted. They are supposed to increase stopping distance, (not to mention remaining cooler due to greater heat dissipation) by about 20%. I have a friend at work who installed some on his Yukon since his heavy chrome rims were making it hard for him to slow down quickly. He swears by them claiming they made a huge difference.

When my Trilogy is installed I just want to know I'll be able to stop as well as possible.
The drawback is that cross-drilled and slotted rotors chew up brake pads at an alarming rate. Therefore, only semi-metallic pads are recommended with these rotors, (or any high-performance rotors for that matter). For good measure, I went the extra step and ordered Hawk Compound High-Performance pads.

Like I said before, I'll post again after I install them and give my honest opinion of the results.

I am looking forward to see how they work out.

His feedback from other rotor purchasers is very very good - although I am sure he was an ******* for being booted here.

I have also heard good things about the rotors on NAPA and they are $185.00. I know 'you get what you pay for' but these rotors seem to be better than the OEM's.

My OEM rotors suck. Since the day I bought the car, the squeek and wear uneven - that is why I want to replace them with aftermarket rotors.

Mac - I would use these rotors with semi-metallic pads on stock calipers. I don't care about the bling factor, just don't want squeeky brakes and would like to have better stopping power over stock.

[TechHeavy]

I would use these rotors with semi-metallic pads on stock calipers. I don't care about the bling factor, just don't want squeeky brakes and would like to have better stopping power over stock.
I'm going to paint my stock calipers black while I have them torn apart. Most auto parts stores have High-temperature spray paint for just this purpose. All the "bling" I need! My buddy did that to his Yukon and it looks great.

[RF Overlord]

I agree 100% with Marty...

Even though we all can't have our own personal Hellboy, DO NOT frig around when it comes to the brakes on ANY car. $165 for 4 is just WAY too cheap for these to be a quality product. Good, high-quality, hard-wearing, long-lasting rotors simply cannot be made for that price. The stock Raybestos rotors for my old T-bird were $62 each 5 years ago, and that was with my mechanic's discount at my favourite jobber. I can't see how a quality rotor that is also cross-drilled and slotted can sell for even less...

I'd be VERY leery of letting my family's lives depend on these things...keep a VERY close eye on them, especially after a couple of panic stops.

Oh, yeah...for those who think just because someone on e-Bay has positive feedback makes them legit, remember this: the guy who sells those fake "chips" that are really 69-cent resistors has TONS of positive feedback... :rolleyes:

[TechHeavy]

I agree 100% with Marty...


I'd be VERY leery of letting my family's lives depend on these things...keep a VERY close eye on them, especially after a couple of panic stops. I agree with you completely RF. Believe me, I plan to test them extensively. In the meantime my family will be shuttled around in my winter pick-up truck. I promise I won't take any chances.

They'll be arriving tomorrow.... you guys stay tuned..

[toncan]

I have had mine for a couple of months now and very pleased with the better stopping power they add. :) Not to mention they still look great.

[Warpath]

Guys, any high-performance rotors add additional stopping power. These may be lower-priced if they're made in Taiwan, but I researched them, (as I do everything before I buy it.... drove my ex-wife crazy). They are aluminum, (lighter than stock) zinc-coated, cross-drilled and slotted...

Where does it state they are aluminum? Aluminum rotors sounds scary. I bet they don't wear for poop. I wouldn't be surprised if the pads out last the rotors. Aluminum, for the most part, is weaker than steel. Therefore, they need to be thicker to get the same strength as steel. Also, zinc coating on the rotors is pointless if they are aluminum. I suspect the center hat (colored in one picture) is aluminum and the rest is steel. That hybrid rotor (Al + steel) is common.

Just because it is labeled "high performance" doesn't mean it will work.

Also, IMO, that guy put way too many !'s in his ad. It makes me suspicious. Its like someone who comes to your door and is overly excited about the product they're pimping. It makes me wonder what they're hiding.

[SergntMac]

I have had mine for a couple of months now and very pleased with the better stopping power they add. :) Not to mention they still look great.
Got any pics?

[TechHeavy]

Where does it state they are aluminum? ...zinc coating on the rotors is pointless if they are aluminum.
Just because it is labeled "high performance" doesn't mean it will work.
Hi Warpath,

I think you may be right about them not being aluminum... I thought I read that somewhere, but can't find it now. However, I took them out of the box this morning, (just for a visual inspection... haven't installed yet) and they sure feel like steel... heavy.

By the way, here is a better ebay link from another "power rotor" vendor who has better information about the advantages and disadvantages of these rotors:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7930018855&category=33564

[Directedby]

Hi Warpath,

I think you may be right about them not being aluminum... I thought I read that somewhere, but can't find it now. However, I took them out of the box this morning, (just for a visual inspection... haven't installed yet) and they sure feel like steel... heavy.

By the way, here is a better ebay link from another "power rotor" vendor who has better information about the advantages and disadvantages of these rotors:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7930018855&category=33564

Tech -

Are these 'power rotors' the same one's you bought from the other vendor?

[toncan]

I will take some pics and try to post them. I'm not the best with downloading pics and things.

[SergntMac]

By the way, here is a better ebay link from another "power rotor" vendor who has better information about the advantages and disadvantages of these rotors:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7930018855&category=33564
As I recall it, the vendor now former here got bounced for his advertising adventures, not product quality.

As DirectedBy will tell you, "the pitch" is everything.

[duhtroll]

I notice the price has gone up from $165 to $277 on that latest link.

-A

[MM03MOK]

Are these rotors identical? Different sellers, different sale.

[HotrodMerc]

Martyo's point of not skimping on brake quality is well taken here. And when one is consistently using brakes hard in a short period of time, as in road racing, it is definitely important to visually monitor the condition of the rotors, as well as tightness of lugs, have fresh fluid in your lines, etc. However, in my experience it is possible to pay more than necessary for a product, whether good quality or not. This might be due to overkill, i.e., intentional or unintentional inappropriate match of product to need/use for various reasons, or through oversight or just inadequate knowledge of both what is needed and what is available. In brake related safety of the family bus it seems that what is probably the first real concern is ability to do a good "panic stop" if needed, and 2., non-fading brakes in a mountain descent, etc. I'm no mechanical engineer, but to my understanding the more likely important factor here is not who made your rotors and where, but the size of the rotor along with the size (no. of pistons) and design of caliper, type of pad, overall design and balance of brake system in relation to the wt. and use of vehicle. Testing of unknown quality rotors, esp. on a track situation, is really a good idea, but IMHO, if that is done and the rotors stop well, do not show hairline cracks, and even appear to be of decent quality steel, then it is the above factors that are of more importance in grabbing power for single emergency stops with family aboard or down hill durability. I'd be interested in knowing the outcome of the durability of these rotors in question, even tho' i won't buy any because my wife throws a fit if i even think about buying stuff off of e-Bay.
Any discount rotors i get will have to be from the parts store, which i've found to last as well on the road course as a pair of "dimpled" and zinc washed (cosmetic items) rotors for my 5.0 that i paid $300/pair for. They cracked just like ones from Autozone, O'Reilly's or the OEM ones did. When your going around a 1.5 mi, 11 turn track in a 3,400 lb car that makes 375 lb's of torque at 2K rpm, with single piston calipers and only 11" rotors, it doesn't seem to matter where the rotors came from, unless maybe they were carbon fiber. I would buy adequate rotors for cheap if i could, and put the money in pads, calipers, adjustable proportioning valve (unless it interfers w/ antilock), etc. HRM

[Directedby]

I notice the price has gone up from $165 to $277 on that latest link.

-A

Different vendors, different auction and I think different rotors.

[Warpath]

...I'm no mechanical engineer, but to my understanding the more likely important factor here is not who made your rotors and where, but the size of the rotor along with the size (no. of pistons) and design of caliper, type of pad, overall design and balance of brake system in relation to the wt. and use of vehicle....

I happen to be a mechanical engineer - not that it matters in this case. You are correct to some degree that it design is most important and it doesn't matter who or where they are made. However, even if you have the best design ever, it is meaningless if you can't make the part to design intent. It could be made in China, Mexico, US, the moon, ..., but if the quality sucks because the manufacturer doesn't care or if the design is not manufacturable, then the product still sucks. Examples of a design not being manufacturable are tolerances too tight, labor too intesive and the price becoming outrageous, can't form the part to the shape desired, etc. These type of problems can occur anyplace.

[TechHeavy]

Ok, before you guys all nail me for liking the "bling bling" effect, (the freshly painted black calipers look awesome too) I WILL be testing these just as soon as I finish installing. In between other odd jobs while on vacation this week, (including raking leaves... I hate trees) :( I have managed to put on the rear rotors and new high performance pads. I'm just giving an update to those of you who may be interested in these rotors and are following this thread for my results.

The backs are on, and they look good. I'm going to try to have the fronts on by tonight and do some heavy testing tomorrow. However, from the manner that I received the product, to the product packaging, and the fantastic look of the rotors themselves, I can find nothing at this point to make me suspicious of a lame product where corners may have been cut. But then again, that's just the appearance. The bottom line is to stop faster and stay cooler.
I'll post again tomorrow after testing, and I'll post pictures too. You guys have got to see how cool this looks.
Tech

[SergntMac]

Stay cooler? Yes. Stop faster? Ummm...Let's get physical and see? Here's a scenario to debate, forgive me for generalizing and rounding out numbers, it's just an example.

The Marauder is 4500 pounds of automobile, and in bone stock trim, capable of reaching 50 MPH in one city block. Call this a 1:1 ratio. After a few mods and some tuning, it can reach 50 MPH in one half of that city block, or, if you prefer to hold to a measured distance, it can reach 100 MPH in one city block. Call this a 2:1 ratio.

When you increase acceleration and gross MPH over a specific measured distance, you must add a manner/method to decrease that acceleration by that same ratio, and in that same distance. The whoa must match the go, K? If you increase your go by 25 percent, you must increase your whoa by a likewise 25 percent. That said, how do these particular rotors improve the whoa? They don't...Because they can't.

They are the same size as the OEM rotors, and use the same OEM dual piston fronts and single piston rear calipers, right? Now, I understand what drilled and slotted rotors offer in terms of bling, and I agree that you can add some performance pads that will feel real nice underfoot. But, I do not understanding how these rotors improve gross brake power without adding any brake contact surface. Factually, once drilled and slotted, they offer less brake surface than that of the same size OEM rotor. Anyone want to calculate that?

I'm not dissin or pizzin on anyone here for the choice they have made, or, the degree of bling they desire, this is all good stuff, yes. But, when the 411 drifts towards "improved stopping power," it's a fact that you do not get any more braking power without increasing contact real estate, period, and this, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly why the vendor got bounced. Advertising.

Paul, and Tech Heavy, go for it, keep us posted? Any others out here driving on these rotors, your 411 is welcome too, but let's not lose sight of the basics?

[TechHeavy]

Stay cooler? Yes. Stop faster? Ummm... But, I do not understanding how these rotors improve gross brake power without adding any brake contact surface. Factually, once drilled and slotted, they offer less brake surface than that of the same size OEM rotor.
Hey Mac,

The drilled and slotted rotors stop the vehicle faster overall because they "dig into" the pads at a greater rate than the smooth surface of stock rotors. This has been proven allready by professionals... Why else do racers use these rotors on their race cars??
Think of it this way... (I hope this is a good analogy). Imagine if you were to slide 2 small weights in a race down a piece of wood to see which would reach the bottom first. The catch is each weight has a different bottom surface that it glides on and which touches the wood. One has a very smooth surface, (stock) and the other has a rough surface that grips the wood. The weight with the smoother surface, (all other things being equal) will finish first right?
The greater friction caused by the rotors against the brake pads, (cause a great deal more wear on the pads, but) stop the vehicle faster.

This is my understanding... someone please correct me if I'm wrong...
Tech

[TechHeavy]

When you increase acceleration and gross MPH over a specific measured distance, you must add a manner/method to decrease that acceleration by that same ratio, and in that same distance. The whoa must match the go, K? If you increase your go by 25 percent, you must increase your whoa by a likewise 25 percent.
Mac, I can see you had your Physics in High School, (probably college) but the flaw in your scenario is only this: If the stopping power is k, then the stopping power of the performance rotor is k squared. Twice the friction, (twice the wear, but we're all supercharged Marauder drivers who cares about the cost of replacing brake pads right?? lol). I'm being sarcastic, but I hope I'm making a point. If these rotors yield the results they claim, then they are a great buy.

Tech

[SergntMac]

Mac, I can see you had your Physics in High School, (probably college) but the flaw in your scenario is only this: If the stopping power is k, then the stopping power of the performance rotor is k squared. Tech
I wasn't being a wiseazz with you, Tech, keep in mind that we've been through this topic before you joined us and because of misinformation, a vendor moved along. IMHO, it may be the same vendor in this e-bay auction. Clearly, it's buyer-beware.

Nonetheless, I would like to hear more about "K", Tech, and why you say this is so? Squaring gross brake efficiency without adding more contact surface confuses me. I really do not believe you can square the "K" factor, with a rotor of the same dimension, and less contact area due to slots and cross drilling, but I am here to learn too. So, yes, let's listen for more qualified thoughts, unless of course, you were joking about that too?

[TechHeavy]

I really do not believe you can square the "K" factor, with a rotor of the same dimension, and less contact area due to slots and cross drilling, but I am here to learn too....
Hey Mac,

Wow, what a day... I'm almost done with my experiment.

To answer your question... think of it this way, (again I'm trying with the analogy...)...

If you were to draw a saw with jagged edges across a board, would it not meet with more resistance than a saw with no teeth, (smooth)?

How is this logic escaping me, (or you)... I don't understand the confusion.

[toncan]

Lets see if I can figure this picture thing out.

[toncan]

Lets see if I can figure this picture thing out.
I also installed Lomandi Kevlarmetallic pads at the same time. I have noticed an increase in brake dust.

[TechHeavy]

Hey Toncan! Great job!

Looks great! Just like mine, (except for the black calipers).

How do they feel?

Tech

[toncan]

I like the way they stop.I don't drive like I'm at Datona raceway like some folks. But they stop very smooth.IMHO a very expensive mod made affordable.

[jgc61sr2002]

I like the way they stop.I don't drive like I'm at Datona raceway like some folks. But they stop very smooth.IMHO a very expensive mod made affordable.


Thanks for the report. Sounds like a good deal.

[SergntMac]

If you were to draw a saw with jagged edges across a board, would it not meet with more resistance than a saw with no teeth, (smooth)? How is this logic escaping me, (or you)... I don't understand the confusion.
I agree, yes it "wood" (LOL), and I got your first metaphore on friction too, Tech, I didn't need a second. However, this tell me that we are on two different trains of thought here.

When you posted "If the stopping power is k, then the stopping power of the performance rotor is k squared," I thought you were applying a genuine mathmatical equasion, where "squared" is much more powerful a multiplication than "twice," your next word in that quote. Apparently, the simplcity of your generalization escaped me, so, let's leave it there.

Toncan, thanks for the pics, they tell me a lot.

Tech, if "twice the braking power" means you believe you are doubling your braking power with these rotors, it's not possible. With enhanced pads such as Lomandi Kevlarmetallic (which are dust heavy, Toncan) or likewise pad efficiency (Hawk 40 or 50 rated), you will feel a lot of improvement in brake control and pedal response, but not "twice" the brake efficiency, no where near it.

Coefficient of friction does not "double" without doubling mass of contact, i.e. larger rotors, more pad in contact with that larger rotor, and larger, or, more piston(s) pushing the pads against the rotor. CEF is something I get from investigating 30some years of fatal car crashes and staring at skid marks, and I apologize for the confusion that caused us here.

I suggest y'all consider adding stainless steel brakes lines from ToddTCE, they too add greatly improved pedal response, and much more precise heel and toe control, without the "pump-up" common in stop-and-go traffic. Again more control over the braking function, but not more brake power. Add some Wilwood 570 (DOT3) fluid as well, it's all very comfortable underfoot, and both are inexpensive upgrades with a lot of bang (and bling) for the buck.

FYI...My KB/BearClaw brake kit is a 14" rotor with PBR dual piston calipers and using Delco performance pads from the Z06 Corvette. Mine are slotted and zinc washed, front and rear, OEM rotors and Bendix metalics on the rear, ToddTCE SS lines all around, and Wilwood 570 fluid. Skid pad numbers gleaned from independent testing...70 MPH to zero in 171 feet, no ABS intervention, no fade from multiple stops, expect 12-15K from the pads. In fact, I believe the spec would be better if tested today, that test was two years ago. Nonetheless, 171 feet from 70 MPH is on the record, I'll live with it. Now, here is something to shoot for, Tech, or, compare to? Take this bet?

Beat my 171 feet in an honest test, and I'll drive to your front door, and treat you and your family to the steak dinner of your choosing. If your OEM braking has doubled from these rotors, I should be hearing how you like your steak...

[Warpath]

The cross drill and slotting of rotors were added to create a place for the gasses created from the asbestos pads to escape. These gasses would get trapped between the pad and rotor and make the pad float over the rotor and, therefore, reduce brake force. Most new, if not all, brake pads do not produce these gasses anymore (as I have read). Therefore, these slots and holes are no longer needed. They may decrease rotor temp. For the most part, IMO, manufacturers are creating needs for these holes and slots so they can charge extra. Don't get me wrong. I love the look and I would certainly buy them over plain rotors. But, for looks only.

Now, as for the cheese grater explanation, I'm forced to give my opinion again. I think that is a crappy design feature. First off, the pads don't flow into the holes/slots as they pass by. Therefore, something has to stick out to create more friction. I don't see how they could manufacture anything like that with any consistency. Plus, I'm sure this feature will be worn off or knocked off quickly. So, I don't believe that the holes/slots create more friction.

The only way to know whether these rotors decrease stopping distance is to do a series of 60 - 0 mph stops (at least 10) with both rotors using the same type of pad. A new pad would have to be used for each rotor to remove the effects of wear on the pad. Then calculate mean and standard deviation to determine which appears better. You should actually do a Weibul analysis. But, don't ask me how.

Lastly, as for friction calculations, the theoretical frictional force is:

f = uN
where
f - friction force
u - (actually the greek letter mu) coefficient of friction
N - Normal load (perpendicular) to the frictional force.

Area has nothing to do with frictional force theoretically. You may ask why don't drag cars run skinnies on back? Well, I never got a good explanation other than the coefficient of friction changes which seems silly to me. But, I think it has to do with imperfections (uneven or inconsistent) in the surfaces which is why a larger area creates more friction.

[SergntMac]

The cross drill and slotting of rotors were added to create a place for the gasses created from the asbestos pads to escape. These gasses would get trapped between the pad and rotor and make the pad float over the rotor and, therefore, reduce brake force. Most new, if not all, brake pads do not produce these gasses anymore (as I have read). Therefore, these slots and holes are no longer needed. They may decrease rotor temp. For the most part, IMO, manufacturers are creating needs for these holes and slots so they can charge extra. Don't get me wrong. I love the look and I would certainly buy them over plain rotors. But, for looks only.

Asbestos pads...A fact of our brake history that has been couched in the sleep half of my memory, thus it was forgotten as an element here. Thank you.

Area has nothing to do with frictional force theoretically. You may ask why don't drag cars run skinnies on back? Well, I never got a good explanation other than the coefficient of friction changes which seems silly to me. But, I think it has to do with imperfections (uneven or inconsistent) in the surfaces which is why a larger area creates more friction.
This confuses many a jury too, which is why it remains one of the more common (therefore practical, and easy) defense "plays" in play today. Believe me, I'm really tired of being summoned to court on this junk, so, y'all buy what you want, eh? Just keep your posts accurate and truthful on behalf of the rest of us here, K?

[TechHeavy]

When you posted "If the stopping power is k, then the stopping power of the performance rotor is k squared," I thought you were applying a genuine mathmatical equasion, where "squared" is much more powerful a multiplication than "twice," your next word in that quote. Apparently, the simplcity of your generalization escaped me, so, let's leave it there.[/QUOTE]
I'm way ahead of ya Mac... there are 2 pads per rotor, 2 squared is 4 which is double.

Thanks for the tip on the brake lines. I can see you're well informed on this subject. I will try to beat your 171 feet stop from 70mph, (I love steak!...) :)

For me, bottom line, if I even stop a little faster, then this was a great deal. I wouldn't spend twelve hundred dollars for a complete, (4 wheel) Baer system for street application, but $165?? I went for it.

BTW, I didn't get it done yet... missing a tool I needed, (I hate it when that happens!) but should in the morning after trip to Sears.

Tech

[Warpath]

...Just keep your posts accurate and truthful on behalf of the rest of us here, K?

Are you saying I am incorrect? I am not. I can post the equation out of my text book once I find it.

[SergntMac]

Are you saying I am incorrect? I am not. I can post the equation out of my text book once I find it.
Nope...Not what I said, not at all. In fact, I sent you an e-mail regarding your post expressing my thanks and compliments.

Where you got this from, I don't know. But, I'd like to step away from this topic, the misunderstandings bore me. E-me if you wish, Sergntmac@aol.com Include a phone number, we'll talk.

[Warpath]

I got your email, thanks. That's why I was confused. Your statement came after you quoted me. So, I wasn't sure if it was directed toward me. We're cool though. No worries & no further discussion needed.

[TechHeavy]

Hi guys,

I finally got the pics ready of my new slotted and cross-drilled rotors. For added effect I painted the calipers and caliper brackets with high-temp high-gloss black paint. I'm still waiting for a dry day to test the new brakes, but for now, here's what they look like. Let me know what you think! :)

Tech

[SergntMac]

Niiiiice...

[TechHeavy]

Niiiiice...
Thanks! :)

[toncan]

They look like mine.(great)

[TechHeavy]

They look like mine.(great)
Hey toncan! These seem to be working great for me, how about you? I haven't had a nice dry day yet, (in what seems a couple weeks!) to seriously test the setup. Have you done a 70mph distance stop test yet?
BTW, your rotors look awesome. :)

[toncan]

I really can't tell if the 70mph is better.I am not a huge fan of anti-lock brakes to begin with. When I hit the brakes I want to STOP, not slow down.They may be great in the snow,but in Georgia we don't get a lot of white stuff.For me, its more bling bling.

[jspradii]

A legal mind always can always be counted on for a logical opinion!!

Right there with you Marty
Indeed, gentlemen. You still generally get what you pay for.

[toncan]

Looking at your list of mods, I hope you got what you paid for.

[MarauderMark]

Hi guys,

I finally got the pics ready of my new slotted and cross-drilled rotors. For added effect I painted the calipers and caliper brackets with high-temp high-gloss black paint. I'm still waiting for a dry day to test the new brakes, but for now, here's what they look like. Let me know what you think! :)

Tech

Are these rotors the napa ones or the ebay ones? either way they do look great my concern would will they last ?i inquired about the ones on ebay and was told not to purchase them but if they last and perform with you i may be inclined to reconcider.let me know..

[jspradii]

Looking at your list of mods, I hope you got what you paid for.Yes, as a matter of fact, I did.

[toncan]

I am green with envy. :D

[TechHeavy]

Are these rotors the napa ones or the ebay ones? either way they do look great my concern would will they last ?i inquired about the ones on ebay and was told not to purchase them but if they last and perform with you i may be inclined to reconcider.let me know..
They are the ebay ones, (paid $165 for set of 4). Well, you may be waiting a long time to see if they last. I won't be driving the Rice Cooker during the winter... (beater pick-up truck gets winter duty in Michigan). But, I'll be happy to let you know if I encounter any problems or mishaps with the new rotors. I should be able to test this set-up like I want to this weekend, (if it doesn't rain again!). I want to see how close I can get to SergeantMac's 70-0 in 171ft record.

[TechHeavy]

Hi guys.

I've learned a lot about braking the past couple weeks. What I'd like to say up front, (and what others were trying to explain to me... mainly SergntMac and WarPath) is that these "power rotors" WILL NOT increase your braking performance alone. Let me specify: Stock size rotors and pads, everything else stock.

I tested my brakes shortly after buying the car, then just this week with the new rotors/pads. Guess what? I was surprised to find that my stopping distance was actually a bit more than stock! ?? What was the culprit? New pads breaking in perhaps? Less surface on the rotor to make contact with the pads? I don't know, I'm not an expert. But I can tell you this, don't buy into the claim that these "power-rotors" will decrease braking distance, (unless maybe under very heavy braking duty where heat could possibly be a factor since the power-rotors are drilled and slotted for heat dispersion) by simply replacing the rotors and pads alone, (when used with typical, everyday street applications).

Am I on the right track Mac?

So now I have rotors that look flashy, but take a wee bit longer to stop than the stock rotors. I promised my honest opinion, so there it is.

For an informative post about better braking please see SergntMac's post above in this thread.

[SergntMac]

I salute you Tech, you're a true gentleman to return here with an update.

[TechHeavy]

I salute you Tech, you're a true gentleman to return here with an update.
Thanks Mac.

[Firedab]

Just to keep us posted, please test them again in lets say a month or so, once the pads have been broken in and the weather is nice! Like you said, it may be the fact that they are new. I would hope for at least a very similar breaking distance, not for it to get worst!
Thanks...

[Warpath]

Thanks for the update. The surface finish/roughness of the new rotors may be smoother and, therefore, be less effective. It will be hard to compare them to your OE rotors since you have some miles on them. I second the request for a follow up test.

[TechHeavy]

Thanks for the update. The surface finish/roughness of the new rotors may be smoother and, therefore, be less effective. It will be hard to compare them to your OE rotors since you have some miles on them. I second the request for a follow up test.
Ok Joe, will do. I'll do 'er again this weekend.

[TechHeavy]

This is my last post on the subject of these rotors this year since I've put my car away for the winter. I really wanted to test them a second time but weather and weekends tending children cancelled that....
However, as a summation to this entire thread, (although I didn't start it...) I'd like to state that I DO NOT recommend these rotors.
Ok, let me explain this.... I don't know exactly what is causing the soft, "spongyness" of my brakes. I don't know if it's the rotors, (out of spec, or whatever) or the semi-metallic pads I installed, but I can tell you that the combination of BOTH are not stopping as well as the stock brakes.

Guys, even Lidio of Alternative Auto Performance, (Home of the Trilogy S/C!)... (and I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him...) said that, "Yeah, they felt a little soft until they warmed up...." Well, to me the brakes feel soft all the time.... And let me tell ya, I think Lidio has driven more, (different) Marauders than any of us, (since he test drives all of his installs). That should tell you something is not quite right with "my" set-up. Not that anything is wrong with another similar brake set-up, mind you, but mine is not right.
So, in the interests of my brother MM owners out there I have to say that I do not recommend this rotor or rotor/pad combo. Although it pulls straight and even, it doesn't stop as fast and at this point I don't know why. I will be testing this further in the Spring when I will experiment with the stock rotors with new pads, and new rotors with stock pads... ect....

Just wanted you all to know my thoughts and results.... I think I may want a brake system like SeargentMacs.... 70-0 in 171ft! Wow! :D

[BruteForce]

With all the dough you've plowed into yer GO factor, you should consider similar attention to some performance WHOA factor. Take a serious look at the BAER Claw system. Thats what Mac has and his testimonial was a deciding factor in my purchase of the same setup. Either that or the Wilwoods from Todd at TCE or the KVRs from Dennis. All good quality proven systems. Ya gets what ya pays for, my friend.

[TechHeavy]

With all the dough you've plowed into yer GO factor, you should consider similar attention to some performance WHOA factor. Take a serious look at the BAER Claw system. Thats what Mac has and his testimonial was a deciding factor in my purchase of the same setup. Either that or the Wilwoods from Todd at TCE or the KVRs from Dennis. All good quality proven systems. Ya gets what ya pays for, my friend.
I'm taking notes... thanks BruteForce. :)

[Todd TCE]

A little late to the party.....

No. The zoomy rotors on ebay (and elsewhere) will NOT change your stopping distance. So long as the rotor is of the same diameter the torque equation will not change at all.

Slots, holes, dimple, combos....the best that they will do is help with pad wiping. Not that this is a bad thing, just not going to transform your car into a road racing machine.

So how do you make the change to better brakes?? First 'better' is a relative term. Better in many cases is not really about shorter distance but rather repeated stops without fade, better modulation and weight reductions.

To make said zoomy rotors work better they often push you to buy the pad of the week as well. Sure, now you have torque change! And if you are coming from a crappy feeling, warped, soft etc pedal, what package wouldn't feel better?!

More pad bite = more torque. Take a stock pad Cf of maybe .38 and sub in some alternates at .43 and you get a nice change. More torque for the leg. Shorter distances? Maybe, maybe not.

Put on larger rotors = more torque. Go from 12" to 14" and you get more leverage. Increase in the torque value. More torque for the leg. Shorter distances? Maybe, maybe not.

Put on some bigger calipers = more torque. Sub in more piston area makes for more clamp load. Clamp load means more torque. More torque for LESS leg. Shorter distances? Maybe, maybe not.

So why not put ALL of it in on the car! Load it and ship it! Well, because they all have their down sides as well. Mondo pad generates more heat and dust, giant rotor adds more rotational mass but works well with the pad, Mondo caliper clamps harder but has softer pedal feel...when all combined the whole car may well stop much longer than stock given you shift nearly all the brake bias to the front thus over working the fronts!

So....how is a good brake system change engineered? When the larger rotor is paired with a smaller piston area caliper and combined with a modest pad for daily use you get the classic balance desired. Huh? Less is more? Proof stated the other day; did the wrap up on the 300C, customer states improved pedal feel, but notes the car stops 'flatter' then prior. Can't understand this I tell him it's due in part to the rear brakes working!

More front brake sound like the only answer. But in the long run you want a balance of front to rear as well as the real benefit; increased thermal capacity. Huh? Bigger rotors offer extended thermal mass. The first stop might be in fact longer than stock! But when done over and over they stay constant. The stockers tend to fade.

Lastly the tire becomes the limit of much of this. Running all season radials doesn't exploit the benefits of the BBK real well. While you can increase the torque at the rotor if you can't put it to the ground it's of little value. It may just mean that you can achieve lock up in less time with less effort. That doesn't mean shorter stopping distances.

[ModMech]

Saw these on ebay. They look good and the price is right ($165 for all four plus $45 to ship). And the seller has sold hundreds of rotors to many happy customers.

Does anyone think these are the same rotors sold on NAPA?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7929329888&category=33564

The job of the brake system is to absorb energy. At any given speed, a vehicle as a discreet amount of total energy, momentum (P) + kenetic (K), where P = Mass x Vel., and K = Mass x Vel^2.

That ability of a brake system to absorb energy during a stop is directly proportional to the MASS of the rotor (ability to resist fade), the Tq that can be applied (average clamping diameter of the rotor, and clamping force), and traction of the tire/road interface.

In most production cars you will drive, it is possible to greatly exceede the traction component with Tq causing a skid (in the absense of ABS). This leave only rotor mass as a determining factor in the system.

If you reduce rotor mass by grooves, holes (drilling), or in the manufacturing process, you will DECREASE the fade resistance, regardless of what the marketing department claims.

Drilled rotors definately look cool, but for a street car, they offer nealry zero performance benefits. In wet conditions, there is a slight benefit due to increased ability to shead water.

[TechHeavy]

A little late to the party.....

No. The zoomy rotors on ebay (and elsewhere) will NOT change your stopping distance. So long as the rotor is of the same diameter the torque equation will not change at all..... Slots, holes, dimple, combos....the best that they will do is help with pad wiping. Not that this is a bad thing, just not going to transform your car into a road racing machine.... That doesn't mean shorter stopping distances.
Wow! Todd, great post! Thanks for taking the time to post that. Incedibly informative... So many of the things you mentioned I've noticed with my brake set-up. I'll definitely be giving you a call come Spring-time for the necessary changes to optimize my braking for the "feel" I want. I, for sure, do not like the "feel" I have now, but I don't feel too bad 'cause the cheapo rotors from eBay were under $200 for the entire 4-piece set... and it was a fun, (although confusing) experiment. I guess I just needed to find out for myself how they worked. Well, they didn't. Hey, maybe I can re-sell them on eBay, (lol). They've never seen a drop of rain.

Thanks again Todd, you'll be hearing from me soon for my entire new set-up. :)

[TechHeavy]

....This leave only rotor mass as a determining factor in the system.

If you reduce rotor mass by grooves, holes (drilling), or in the manufacturing process, you will DECREASE the fade resistance, regardless of what the marketing department claims.

Drilled rotors definately look cool, but for a street car, they offer nealry zero performance benefits. In wet conditions, there is a slight benefit due to increased ability to shead water.
Ok ModMech, I've learned my lesson about rotor mass... point well taken.

Hey, I guess you don't want to buy these rotors then huh? LOL! :D

Thanks for the post.