DOHC Turbo Kit

[Rider90]

http://racerwalsh.zoovy.com/product/RWA0304COBRA
Discuss! :cool4:

[Dennis Reinhart]

This is my friend Eddy at Racer Walsh here in Jacksonville maybe I can tweak this for a Marauder, oh god then we would have 4 options, LOL :beer:

[cyclone03]

You guys that bashed on Pro Turbo Kits take note,this is thier Cobra Kit.

I told you they make some power.
It's all in the tune up.


BTW Dennis if you start doing the tune up on these for our cars that would be great. With stock bottom ends sneaking up on the power and boost is the only way to go,and you know how to do it with out blowing everything to h#77.

[Motorhead350]

would that really work because I thought cobra parts didn't fit. Also how streetable is thie really? Doesn't sound like it could be a daily driver anymore.

[valkyrie]

would that really work because I thought cobra parts didn't fit. Also how streetable is thie really? Doesn't sound like it could be a daily driver anymore.

From what I have read turbo is preferred over Supercharging.

[cyclone03]

No the Mustang/Cobra kit will not fit the Marauder directly.
The biggest problem with the Marauder install is that big Crossmember.
Note in the discription in the above link the Cobra kit includes a new crossmember.
The Cobra kit will not fit a Marauder.

[SergntMac]

From what I have read turbo is preferred over Supercharging.
Read where? Here? Really...Well, about 1/3 of our membership (those posting anyway) are supercharged. That's phenominal representaion, and mostly due to the several high quality choices we have for the Marauder.

But, out in the free world, among enthuiasts at large, you may be right. IMHO, turbocharging is more efficient and less problematic to maintain, but it has something to do with the style of racing/driving too. Turbos work great when you can shift gears in the twisties and stay in your power over a long term drive, like a Pike's Peak challenge, or, a road course. But, looking at less popular drag racing, supercharging seems more common with racers at the "weekend warrior" level...IMHO.

Poll anyone?

[Shankin]

There is no doubt that turbos dont rule when it comes to making power but there is no room in a MM for all of it to fit neatly. A really good buddy of mine has a cobra with a PTK set up on his car and there is not even a slight possibility it would go on a MM. His kit came with a new subframe just for clearance. It made 640 through a non locking converter and ran 9.80s at 140mph at 3500lbs.

[Stephen Soulsby]

I have to ask though, if you already have a supercharge Cobra, why go to all the expense to change it to a turbo? More efficient, yes (but I can't forsee much difference in fuel economy). Seems silly to pay $7,000 and then have turbo lag and a noisey turbo.

[BillyGman]

Read where? Here? Really...Well, about 1/3 of our membership (those posting anyway) are supercharged. That's phenominal representaion, and mostly due to the several high quality choices we have for the Marauder.

looking at less popular drag racing, supercharging seems more common with racers at the "weekend warrior" level...IMHO.

I agree w/MAC on this. Talk is cheap. If there's a Turbo Marauder to be had, that's streetable, and dependable, then let's see it. I haven't seen nor heard of one yet. Have I missed something? Mustangs are different, so what's being done w/them is irrelavent.

[Rider90]

Seems silly to pay $7,000 and then have turbo lag and a noisey turbo.

From my experience with turbocharged cars and trucks, that silly $7,000 is worth it if you have the money. To each his own, I though, would prefer a turbo charger over a supercharger if such a kit came by as neatly fit and trimmed as the current supercharger kits.

[Brutus]

Not enough room under the hood????

[HwyCruiser]

Sorry if this is a repost, but:

http://racerwalsh.zoovy.com/product/0304MARAUDER

[hdwrench]

wonders if anyone on here has actually installed that kit.. havent heard anything about it

[Joe Walsh]

Not enough room under the hood????

OMG!!!!! :awe: :eek:

Talk about TURBO LAG.....compressing 20+ feet of piping....

You would need to 'call down to the boiler room' for more steam, then pull out a cigarette and smoke it while you wait for boost!!!!

Punch it on Monday........................ .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. ............Boost on Tuesday

[David Morton]

Punch it on Monday... ...Boost on TuesdayHeh, I agree. But it's not that the volume of the pipes are delaying the gasses it's that the long pipes cause the gasses to cool off too much and that means less volume of gas, delaying spool-up time.

These guys at Pro Turbo Kits (http://66.70.20.245/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=78) have a single turbo for the Marauder for $5700. It comes fully massaged with all the extras to get 371HP and 471TQ at 7psi. They have no dyno chart but I suspect that it's mostly high end torque because they don't say a word about lag.

It's not unlike the famous Buick Grand National, a dog off the line but after it spools up, watch out! The GN didn't make much boost either as I recall (I used to work for Buick) but in some respects I don't consider that to be all that bad. Eating up street tires and getting sideways at traffic lights isn't my cup of tea. But catching up to the guy with M/T slicks that gave me the holeshot at the track only to see me right next to him at the finish line on street tires is! I might wind up getting this one or Dennis new Pro Charger.

Somebody said turbos are noisey but so are superchargers. I like the whistle of the turbo better and it should be less noticeable inside the car (because of the higher frequency) if sensible sound isolation strategy is followed like firewall and hood padding and having good air intake piping that gets the noise aimed out in front of the car. I've been thinking about using those four slots at the bottom of the bumper cover anyways. I'm kinda leaning towards the turbo for this reason as well, but Dennis might suprise me yet.

Gale Banks Dual Turbo Kits (http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-products.cfm) has solved the problem of turbo lag with a well engineered system for small-block Chevys. By using cast iron manifolds with the turbos bolted right on top, he uses the exhaust gasses when they are at their hottest, most expanded state. Also, using two smaller turbos and a "shuttle" valve to vent the excess pressure waiting at the throttle body, his design ensures the turbos are always "spooled-up". The result is instant throttle response! The second the throttle plates open up, you have boost, and lot's of it, no waiting. Read his pdf at the link I've given.

As far as streetability goes, Formula One cars have been using well-engineered turbocharger systems for years and not just at Indy, but in the Gran Prix, and that's the ultimate in "streetability" if you ask me. As far as using a manual tranny goes, I specialized in automatics for seven years before I retired and I know you can get instant manual downshifts if you don't mind harshness (re: BANG!) by drilling out all of those orifices that slow down the fluid flow through the valve body to the clutches.

If I were going to go all out, crazy for speed at any cost, I'd go with a dual turbo set-up like Gales. I hope I don't, but a ten second Marauder... :hmmm:

I reserve the right to change my mind ten seconds after this posts. :D

[valkyrie]

I agree w/MAC on this. Talk is cheap. If there's a Turbo Marauder to be had, that's streetable, and dependable, then let's see it. I haven't seen nor heard of one yet. Have I missed something? Mustangs are different, so what's being done w/them is irrelavent.

I didn't say for a particular car. I was speaking generally that Turbo was better than Supercharging.

And who is to say that if a turbocharging kit was available before the superchargers for the Marauders then everyone would still be Supercharging.

You can't say that! It easy now, since it wasn't available and everyone loves their S/C.

[CRUZTAKER]

For those, and it's very few of us, that enter FFW competitions is bracket classes. Turbos are no longer allowed in all but true street.:banned:

Boring....:rolleyes:

We watched a 9 second twin turbo mustang compete with US because he was no longer allowed in any of the other bracket classes. Needless to say he won the 8-9 and the 9-10 second class.

Turbos just don't seem right for such a heavy car. I'll stick with the blower.

[cyclone03]

For those, and it's very few of us, that enter FFW competitions is bracket classes. Turbos are no longer allowed in all but true street.:banned:

Boring....:rolleyes:

We watched a 9 second twin turbo mustang compete with US because he was no longer allowed in any of the other bracket classes. Needless to say he won the 8-9 and the 9-10 second class.

Turbos just don't seem right for such a heavy car. I'll stick with the blower.

The main reason they got banned was $$,ie;no major turbo sponsers ($$).
Years ago a west coast Drag racer built and competed with a T/F Turbo car,as soon as the car made it to the 1/4 finals,the next race it was banned!

Just because we don't have a major sponser of this site selling,marketing,creating,and racing a Turbo Marauder doesn't meen a belt driven compressor is better.

Barry the ban has been in works for about 5 years in FFW with smaller inlets being required every year.Then when the turbos continued to win,the turbos had to become smaller,then smaller inlets again,and so on including adding race wieght to the cars tell they just outright banned 'em all.

Being the Pro Turbo guys are so close to me,and I know them,if they could do something about the under cross member exhaust routing I think I'd have one.

Have you ever seen a Mustang POWER WHEELY in Secound gear? Car picks up the front like every good drag car,then sets the front wheels down and picks them up again about 80feet out.*****in'.

[cyclone03]

Heh, I agree. But it's not that the volume of the pipes are delaying the gasses it's that the long pipes cause the gasses to cool off too much and that means less volume of gas, delaying spool-up time.

These guys at Pro Turbo Kits (http://66.70.20.245/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=78) have a single turbo for the Marauder for $5700. It comes fully massaged with all the extras to get 371HP and 471TQ at 7psi. They have no dyno chart but I suspect that it's mostly high end torque because they don't say a word about lag.

It's not unlike the famous Buick Grand National, a dog off the line but after it spools up, watch out! The GN didn't make much boost either as I recall (I used to work for Buick) but in some respects I don't consider that to be all that bad. Eating up street tires and getting sideways at traffic lights isn't my cup of tea. But catching up to the guy with M/T slicks that gave me the holeshot at the track only to see me right next to him at the finish line on street tires is! I might wind up getting this one or Dennis new Pro Charger.

Somebody said turbos are noisey but so are superchargers. I like the whistle of the turbo better and it should be less noticeable inside the car (because of the higher frequency) if sensible sound isolation strategy is followed like firewall and hood padding and having good air intake piping that gets the noise aimed out in front of the car. I've been thinking about using those four slots at the bottom of the bumper cover anyways. I'm kinda leaning towards the turbo for this reason as well, but Dennis might suprise me yet.

Gale Banks Dual Turbo Kits (http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-products.cfm) has solved the problem of turbo lag with a well engineered system for small-block Chevys. By using cast iron manifolds with the turbos bolted right on top, he uses the exhaust gasses when they are at their hottest, most expanded state. Also, using two smaller turbos and a "shuttle" valve to vent the excess pressure waiting at the throttle body, his design ensures the turbos are always "spooled-up". The result is instant throttle response! The second the throttle plates open up, you have boost, and lot's of it, no waiting. Read his pdf at the link I've given.

As far as streetability goes, Formula One cars have been using well-engineered turbocharger systems for years and not just at Indy, but in the Gran Prix, and that's the ultimate in "streetability" if you ask me. As far as using a manual tranny goes, I specialized in automatics for seven years before I retired and I know you can get instant manual downshifts if you don't mind harshness (re: BANG!) by drilling out all of those orifices that slow down the fluid flow through the valve body to the clutches.

If I were going to go all out, crazy for speed at any cost, I'd go with a dual turbo set-up like Gales. I hope I don't, but a ten second Marauder... :hmmm:

I reserve the right to change my mind ten seconds after this posts. :D



Dave F1 Doesn't use Turbos anymore,about 10years I think.
Indy cars ditto.
CART still does but not for long I fear.

With all the fun just fitting one Turbo under the Marauder hood,two would be a treat.
The biggest problem is we want ALL the stock stuff inplace and working,A/C,Power Steering etc...That stuff eats up a lot of room.

[David Morton]

Dave F1 Doesn't use Turbos anymore,about 10years I think.
Indy cars ditto.
CART still does but not for long I fear. Damn. I'm getting old. Next thing, somebody's gonna tell me they're no longer using those neat Offenhauser engines that are one piece cylinder block 4 valve head 4 cylinders that are bolted together to a common crankcase. I hate change. :mad:

With all the fun just fitting one Turbo under the Marauder hood,two would be a treat.
The biggest problem is we want ALL the stock stuff inplace and working,A/C,Power Steering etc...That stuff eats up a lot of room.I had a lot fun looking that situation over one afternoon. I popped the hood, removed the intake hose assembly and just spent a few minutes figuring how two turbos and all the plumbing might fit. Right off the top of my head, it looks like it can be done with just a few modifications not unlike some of the ones the S/Charged guys have done. A new and insulated A/C high side line, put the battery in the trunk, relocate and plumb the ABS motor/valve assembly, etc. Only other thing is the possibility of those inner fender pants melting from the heat, but I suppose they can be replaced with some sheet metal pants that would also give more room for the installation.

I think it can be done. I just might call Gale Banks and see if they will help, or at least supply me with that shuttle valve that keeps the turbo spooled up. The biggest problems I see so far are the exhaust manifolding and upper intake manifold.

I love the idea :D , making it happen is the problem. :(

[cyclone03]

Guess what Dave...
No Offy's either.Sorry.

[David Morton]

Guess what Dave...
No Offy's either.Sorry.I was afraid of that. Just don't tell me it's Honda. :(

[CRUZTAKER]

Thanks for the explaination Cyclone....I never knew the details, only what that fellow shared with us. :up:

[Mike Poore]

OMG!!!!! :awe: :eek:

Talk about TURBO LAG.....compressing 20+ feet of piping....

You would need to 'call down to the boiler room' for more steam, then pull out a cigarette and smoke it while you wait for boost!!!!

Punch it on Monday........................ .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. ............Boost on Tuesday

Never mind they put that sucker right under the gas tank. Talk about boost!:run:

[Mike Poore]

Turbos just don't seem right for such a heavy car. I'll stick with the blower.
Yeh, but isn't that what they use on heavy trucks? What about the Buick GNX? I've always thought Turbo's were less reliable than superchargers, not the other way 'round.;)

[David Morton]

Yeh, but isn't that what they use on heavy trucks? What about the Buick GNX? I've always thought Turbo's were less reliable than superchargers, not the other way 'round.;) :grad:

In the early days of Detroit manufacturers using turbos, the common oils were API grade SC or SD, not good enough for the high heat encountered inside the turbo housings after the car was shut down and the oil stopped flowing. The oil would cook onto the shaft, gum up and cause bearing failure. Most manufacturers recommended a cooling off period before shutdown and some aftermarket suppliers were selling oil accumulator kits for the express purpose of circulating cooler oil through that shaft bearing after shutdown. Those guys did alright.

By the time the venerable Buick Grand National was in production API grade SF and SG was common and now you can walk right into Wal-Mart and buy their house brand SL grade oil for 87c a quart, plenty good enough for turbos.

The stuff 'Doc' was using in the DeLorean with the "Mr. Fusion" fusion drive in "Back To The Future, II" was UNPI grade SY. :D

[Mike Poore]

:grad:

In the early days of Detroit manufacturers using turbos, the common oils were API grade SC or SD, not good enough for the high heat encountered inside the turbo housings after the car was shut down and the oil stopped flowing. The oil would cook onto the shaft, gum up and cause bearing failure. Most manufacturers recommended a cooling off period before shutdown and some aftermarket suppliers were selling oil accumulator kits for the express purpose of circulating cooler oil through that shaft bearing after shutdown. Those guys did alright.

By the time the venerable Buick Grand National was in production API grade SF and SG was common and now you can walk right into Wal-Mart and buy their house brand SL grade oil for 87c a quart, plenty good enough for turbos.

. :D
Thanks David; really, when you think about it, turbos run for hundreds of thousands of miles on the long haul trucks, and are very reliable. Something I'm wondering about though, is the the spool speed. Since those big trucks operate at very narrow RPM band vs wide range for a gasoline engine, is that an issue? :confused: .

[David Morton]

Thanks David; really, when you think about it, turbos run for hundreds of thousands of miles on the long haul trucks, and are very reliable. Something I'm wondering about though, is the the spool speed. Since those big trucks operate at very narrow RPM band vs wide range for a gasoline engine, is that an issue? :confused: .3000 RPMs on a 400 cu/in 6cyl diesel that started out with 19:1 compression could spool up just as much as any 350 w/9.5:1 compression doing 6000. The big diesels never had this problem like the cars did, even though spool speeds were just as high. The reasons were:

1)Lots of those truckers never shut those puppies down except to change the oil! And...

2)Probably the most significant, the reason those guys are religious about oil changes, they're diesels! Ever smell the oil from a diesel engine? Smells like diesel fuel, an oil. And a damn fine solvent it is too! It doesn't evaporate like gasoline does, leaving all that gum and varnish. Any run time and the oil will have significant enough quantities of diesel fuel in it from the blow-by to keep it clean as a whistle, except for the soot. One thing I can say about the times I've had the dubious privelege of working on a diesel engine (I hate the way that smell enters your bloodstream and lingers for days :( ) is that I've never witnessed anything like the baked-on layers of gunk that I've found inside gasoline engines inside a diesel. Matter of fact, they clean up just as easy as any well maintained automatic transmission. But don't wear a white lab coat like you might in a tranny shop! The micro-fine soot of a diesel stains everything not made of metal.