Heating woes

[Murader03]

Help! :help: The weather is turning cooler here and it's time to use the heat. However, I have a slight problem. As most remember last February the car overheated, and the engine was replaced under warranty two months later. I also had the cooling mod from Dennis installed this summer while in Florida. Now the problem: After warm-up, the temp gauge reads normal temp. When the car is at idle, the heater puts out cold air, as though the A/C were on, doesn't matter what function is selected, Vent,Floor,def, etc. I can get warm air, not "HOT" air, but raising the rpm to about 2K, and then I can pump warm air through the system. I can set the temp control at 90 and it is still only warm air. It takes about a 10 minute run to get the cabin warm, not hot! Has anyone else with the cooling mod had any problems with temp. from heater? Any ideas was to why I can't get heated air at idle, etc? I don't remember having any temp problems after the overheat or engine change.....

TIA :help:

[BillyGman]

Check your coolant level. It sounds to me like it's low. That would cause the symptoms you've mentioned.

[Murader03]

Check your coolant level. It sounds to me like it's low. That would cause the symptoms you've mentioned.


Billy: Thanks, but I've already done that! It's in the correct range in the tank.

[Haggis]

Bob I will try the heat this weekend and let you know my findings.

[martyo]

I had this problem before my beast underwent major surgery and never did figure out what was causing it. Then I decided not to worry it too much because I wasn't really driving the car in the winter anyway.

Let us know how you make out. You have piqued my curiosity.

[David Morton]

It's possible the cooling mod might be actually diverting coolant flow away from the heater. Try restricting flow through the new mods hoses by putting a Vise-Grip (R) locking pliers on the hoses and see if that doesn't cure your problem. If it does, then the mod is causing the coolant flow problem.

[Bradley G]

My thinking is the electronic climate control module is not working properly.Or like BillyGman said if it's low on coolant or if thier is an air pocket in the system(heater core) restricting flow of coolant.Did you check the coolant level in the radiator not the overflow resevior?

[danbike]

Be sure you follow the instructions for bleeding air from the coolant lines. May be trapped air.

[GordonB]

Bob,
1. Trapped air would do it for sure.
2. Might be worth a call to Dennis as well.
3. If you have MOD-friendly dealer, you might ask them to check it. The HVAC control modlue that is.

GordonB

[rayjay]

Just a thought, I did the thermostat mod on my ZX3 and found when it got cold I had next to no heat. I pulled the lower temp thermostat out and my heat came back. Needless to say I never put the lower temp thermostat back in. Need the heat here about 6 months out of the year.

[SergntMac]

It's possible the cooling mod might be actually diverting coolant flow away from the heater. Try restricting flow through the new mods hoses by putting a Vise-Grip (R) locking pliers on the hoses and see if that doesn't cure your problem. If it does, then the mod is causing the coolant flow problem.
Ummm...IMHO, if you tie off any of the coolant lines anywhere, you'll block circulation for sure, and engine temps will rise in reaction. I don't think this test will identify a cause, but it will produce a misleading symptom.

The DR cooling mod does not divert coolant away the cooling system, it expands the flow path to improve coolant flow through the heads. If it was deficient in any way, or, connected incorrectly, overheating would have occurred a long time ago. Likewise an air bubble in the system, either would demand immediate attention.

Heat is produced on demand and relevant to outside tempertures. If the EEC believes outside air is 50 degrees and you want 60 in the cabin, it's will call for that change. If it's really 20 degrees outside and the EEC doesn't know that, it will not produce additional heat. Test your sensor for accuracy by 1) comparing the heater control head's reading against the actual outside temps. Or, 2) unplug the air temp sensor to see what changes.

If this doesn't create any change in cabin temps, you're investigation should turn to vacum and electrical connections under the dash, or related to the duct work....IMHO.

[BillyGman]

If by any chance you've only noticed this occurence since installing the cooling modification, then I'd say that you should give Dennis Reinhart a call to ask him about it.

[Marc]

I had a similar problem last winter and I think it was something like the thermostat wasn't opening up. I can't exactly recall the exact dagnosis. It was very easily replaced under warranty.

[jgc61sr2002]

I would suspect the thermostat, but the temp gauge rules that out. Could be a malfunctioin of the heater door that directs the hot air into the cabin.

[roadpig58]

sounds like a blend door actuator and/ or blend door itself roadpig

[valleyman]

I've had the cooling mod in for several thousand miles now. No affect on the heater (or AC) whatsoever.

[BUCKWHEAT]

My car has the head cooling kit. I found the heater blows cold when I stop in traffic. As I speed up, the heat begins to flow. My guess is the lower thermostat and the head cooling kit are so efficient that the water pump at idle doesn't move enough to keep the temp up in the heater core. Also possible that the hoses are hooked up wrong. Does anyone have the diagram for hoses with cooling kit for an non s/c car?

[Murader03]

Thanks to all who responded. :) What a site! Now a little more background. After my thermostat stuck "closed" last winter, it was replaced under warranty. No heat problems. Engine was replaced in April for problems related to the thermostat. Again, I don't recall any heat problem at that time. Cooling mod done in June, again, heater was not used. However, the system was bled for air when Dennis installed the mod. The termostat as ar as I know is the stock thermostat which the dealer installed back in 2/04. I guess it could be stuck "open" and flowing all the time instead of allowing the water temp to get to normal, although the gauge shows mid range which it always has, both before and after all the work. Bekieve me, the gauge worked whenn the overheat happened! The comment of cold/cool air at idle is right on the mark. The temp will increase as the rpm increases. Again, the temp from the vents is "NOT" hot air like I can get from my wife's heating system. After a few minutes, you can't keep your hand in front of the vent, unlike on my MM. I can hold my hand in front of the vent during a 10 mile run down the interstate, and never have to remove it because it got hot. The air temp coming from the vents just doesn't get that hot.

Guess I'll go check the thermostat while it's cold and see what it's doing!

Thanks again for all the input! :confused:

[rayjay]

I should have posted this with my other reply, When I put the 180 degree stat in my Focus, my temp gauge also read normal, but next to no heat. I think I'd be looking at the thermostat. Maybe DR put a 180 degree stat in when he did the upgrade. What did the dealership say?

[MarauderMark]

Bob,
1. Trapped air would do it for sure.
GordonB


This sounds like it would be but call the DR and see what he says..Let us know what happened..

[BillyGman]

I should have posted this with my other reply, When I put the 180 degree stat in my Focus, my temp gauge also read normal, but next to no heat. I think I'd be looking at the thermostat. Maybe DR put a 180 degree stat in when he did the upgrade. What did the dealership say?
I have that same 180 degree thermostat in my Marauder, and the heat has always been fine. That thermostat is only 8 degrees cooler than the factory one, so the temperature difference is miniscule and cannot be the cause of any heating problems, unless ofcourse the thermostat is defective and isn't opening properly. But that wouldn't be related to the heat range of it.

[SergntMac]

My car has the head cooling kit. I found the heater blows cold when I stop in traffic. As I speed up, the heat begins to flow. My guess is the lower thermostat and the head cooling kit are so efficient that the water pump at idle doesn't move enough to keep the temp up in the heater core. Also possible that the hoses are hooked up wrong. Does anyone have the diagram for hoses with cooling kit for an non s/c car?
Sorry...No diagram on hand. The head cooling kit is the same for all MMs, N/A, S/C, roots, centrifugal, twin turbo, 2005s, 300 ehs, whatever version of MM you have.

The head cooling kit does not intend to reduce overall engine temps, it only restores the cooling system circulation to rear of each head not used in our application of the 4V DOHC. I've done some testing on this last year, and in the long run yes, your engine will run cooler by about 5 degrees or so, but this mod serves only to balance overall temps and relieve hot spots that cause detonation.

If your MM gets cool at the stoplight, something else is wrong with it. I would begin by checking fluid level, hot and cold.

Afterthought...Do you have an electric water pump?

[ELKO1]

I have been having the same trouble with MM, i can start the car in the morning, and the defroster will not get hot at all, even with the car idling for upto 30 minutes. Car will also start to overheat while waiting to get onto the base (which is usually a fifteen minute wait). Needle goes all the way up, it's not until i get up to speed that it comes down from 'H' The only way i can get the defroster to work is by turning on the A/C to Max and place the fan setting to the lowest setting. The engine will start to heat up after about 10 miles of 65MPH driving, then turn on the defroster at 90. Sometimes this requires me to turn off and on the defroster a few times to get the heat to come on.

[Murader03]

ELK01, you've got other problems . I'd certainly get the thermostat checked out pronto. This should not be happening, period. That's what caused my original overheat. It "WILL" cause engine damage if not caught in time, and I would suspect at this time, since it did get to the "H" mark, there might be.

[ELKO1]

I'll take into Ford this week. I started it this afternoon and let it idle for about ten minutes and it was sitting on 'H' when i went out to check on it.

[jgc61sr2002]

I have been having the same trouble with MM, i can start the car in the morning, and the defroster will not get hot at all, even with the car idling for upto 30 minutes. Car will also start to overheat while waiting to get onto the base (which is usually a fifteen minute wait). Needle goes all the way up, it's not until i get up to speed that it comes down from 'H' The only way i can get the defroster to work is by turning on the A/C to Max and place the fan setting to the lowest setting. The engine will start to heat up after about 10 miles of 65MPH driving, then turn on the defroster at 90. Sometimes this requires me to turn off and on the defroster a few times to get the heat to come on.



Sounds like there could be air in the system. There is an air bleed valve on the horozontal water pipe(metal).

[SergntMac]

I have been having the same trouble with MM, i can start the car in the morning, and the defroster will not get hot at all, even with the car idling for upto 30 minutes. Car will also start to overheat while waiting to get onto the base (which is usually a fifteen minute wait). Needle goes all the way up, it's not until i get up to speed that it comes down from 'H' The only way i can get the defroster to work is by turning on the A/C to Max and place the fan setting to the lowest setting. The engine will start to heat up after about 10 miles of 65MPH driving, then turn on the defroster at 90. Sometimes this requires me to turn off and on the defroster a few times to get the heat to come on.
I don't need to ask what mods you have, or do not have, this is not normal behavior. Get your MM to a service center ASAP and explain to them what's happening in the words you have posted here.

You have more than just a nusiance air bubble in your cooling system, you're low on anti-freeze. The engine will reach normal operating temps within 7 minutes from a cold start, and if there isn't any coolant in the system, you're going to create a "run hot" situation. This could lead to serious damage, please get it checked out soon?

[ELKO1]

Took the Rauder to Ford, was a gallon and a half low on coolant. the car has only 11,000 miles on it. It doesn't leak either, something I should have caught myself. The car is fine now. Oh, i only have one mod....no mufflers.