View Full Version : Potential new Marauder owner? (many questions...)
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 08:56 PM
Hello all,
I'm a newly registered member of this board as of about 4 minutes ago. I don't have a Marauder of any generation, but have recently focused on this new model as a potential replacement for my current commuter. I have spent the entire past weekend combing through this entire site and its pictures/articles/links as well as anything else I could find on the 'net.
First, a quick intro: As one could probably deduce from my user name, I am a Trans Am fanatic and currently own three. Along with this menage à trois I also own a loaded 1998 Civic EX (the Canadian non-VTEC 4-door) . I am a B.Eng with a specialization in Electrical Engineering, married with a 15 month old son who is the light in my life, and have been into cars since the age of 2 (I kid you all not!).
Right... the reason for me being here: I am very seriously interested in replacing my Civic with the Marauder. OK... when y'all have stopped laughing :D, I'll tell you why. My Civic is rather boring (although super dependable and very economical and practical) and with thoughts of having more kids, I'm interested in something sturdy and solid (ie. full frame, beefy construction) that isn't an SUV, in order to survive the urban jungle that is our rush hour commutes.
And to be honest, I love the look and attitude of the Marauder, and I'd rather pay the fuel bills for a classy machine like this than for an SUV. :cool4:
My purpose for being here: even though I tried as hard as I could to get as much info through the 'search' function, I still have a few questions that I hope you all can help me with.
1) I've seen references to a 300A and 300B model. A local dealer has a Marauder 300A with TC, clock, trunk organizer, no heated seats, can't recall if it had the CD changer (I think it did, not sure). This doesn't jive with a description I found in another post. What exactly are 300A and 300B models?
2) What kind of mileage can one expect from this car when driving in a Grand Marquis sort-of-way? Stupid question, perhaps, but fuel is expensive up here and this car would be intended as a commuter... mostly highway miles, but nonetheless I am curious what real-world numbers one can get (I don't really trust the EPA numbers... I get 33mpg on the highway with my WS6!).
3) Crash-worthiness... tough one, since I hope none of you have had this misfortune. But with my family to worry about, it's an important point.:depress: With most SUVs way over 4500 lbs, my lightweight Civic just isn't going to cut it should one of the psycho soccer moms in my suburb blow a red light when mini-vanning Junior to school a few minutes late. Weight isn't everything, though, and I'm wondering how the Marauder fares in this regard.
4) I hear complaints of tranny hunting from some Marauder owners. Is this an isolated problem or a characteristic of factory tuning?
5) build-quality: I know... it's a domestic car. I have lived my entire life around domestic cars, and know what I *should* expect. I'd be leaving behind a dirt-reliable Civic that has cost me $0.00 in the years I've owned it (yes, $0.00) in exchange for a little more 'soul'. I've read a few mishaps on the forums, but is this something that is improving or is it a status-quo with the Canadian plant?
6) low-end performance: I've read complaints ranging as bad as comparing it to a V6 Sable to being satisfactory for a big car. I've yet to test drive the Marauder but have recently spent a week with a new Town Car and the engine did have the darnedest trouble spinning that one rear wheel. What's the real deal?
7) Speaking of low-end performance, is this something that can be addressed by a 'chip'? I've seen dyno charts of before/after comparisons, but these are WOT results... do these upgrades actually result in a noticeable improvement at part-throttle and low-throttle driving? Cruising? Any tradeoffs or disadvantages? How about a mileage hit with these 'chips'?
8) I read a few posts about some unintended acceleration... has this been completely dealt with? Do I still have to worry about this happening?
9) corrosion-resistance: let's face it, every time I look at my Civic, I get the urge to give it a good lick and break out the Tequila, there's that much salt in use around here during the winter. My family has had brief stints with Ford products over the years and these turned out to be rather unsatisfactory experiences due to premature corrosion (and tranny woes). What's the real deal? I drove past a mid 90's Grand Marquis this evening with perforated front fenders.... isolated mishap?
10) weight distribution: I've owned several Civics of model years from 1984-1998 and all were well balanced, which is great for winter driving. I've also driven a 1985 Parisienne through many winters and found it too was well balanced. How does the Marauder fare in this area?
If anyone can provide me with their insights on these questions, I'd really appreciate it. I'm planning on approaching the dealer for a test drive and a serious talk sometime this week, and would appreciate any info that I could use to put him on the spot. All the info I can get from you guys will serve to help me to make a decision on what to do regarding this $$$ purchase.
Thanks.
LincMercLover
01-26-2003, 09:25 PM
Hmm... I'll give this a shot:
1) I think your 300A is within "jive." It's probably a transition car. This clock stuff is new to all of us, and heated seats are an OPTION. Look at the fuel door I guess...
2) GM style, around 21MPG, maybe a little more after break in. MM style, well... I won't tell you, as it may detur you from buying... :D
3) Government 5 Star, side air bags. And actually pretty tough. Had a Explorer back into me (for no apparent reason, stupid b****!) when she was 3 days old. I about cried! Came home, and to my avail, after a 45 minute inspection of the fron end, nothing. Guess that liscense plate bracket's good for something! But, in your scenario, I think you'd live. :up:
4) Not sure what you mean... The reverse issue is a linkage adjustment, which the dealer can do. Not everyone has had this problem though.
5) I think the quality is pretty good. I look at my buddies 2000 SS (15,000miles), and it's falling apart! My mother has a GM of the same year (18,000miles), and still looks like new, and she never does any kind of dash treatment. I think these cars can stand up pretty good.
6) For what she is, it's impressive. From what I hear, a chip does wonders. Remember though, wheel spin is not desirable for the professional racer, but she does get second gear scratches and can break loose when hitting passing gear (Trust me, I've done it! :D).
7) From what I hear, the gains are across the board.
8) Some do it, some don't. I believe the issue is resolved. Fourth had his cable de-rail, which was probably more an error in cable length than it needing to be shielded, because I've heard nothing of another MM doing this. The other guy had a bad fuel regulator I believe? Rare instance, but it happens... That's why there's a warrenty.
9) If ya take care of it, it'll be fine. Undercoating is pretty much usless for these cars, as there's not anything vital under there that can rust (Although, mine had some sort of run off the dripped on the very back of my tips, like where it welds up, that looks like undercoating. Maybe they do some sort of under coating at the factory now?!?!). Tranny, I kind of doubt there'll be any problems. This is a tried and tested new design. Just ask the Mark VIII guy who have their built up.
10) I believe it's something around 60/40, maybe closer to 55/45. The all aluminum block helps A LOT!
RF Overlord
01-26-2003, 09:29 PM
Many questions...you weren't foolin'...
OK, here's what I got (short answers):
1. No one knows the difference between 300A and 300B...it seems that every one off the line is different, with a different mix of missing parts...
(he said, only semi-sarcastically)
2. If you get 33 mpg with a WS6 (!), you're going to be disappointed...you might get 22 with the MM...(maybe a little more if you "GM" it) ...unless we're talking imperial gallons? I don't know the conversion...
3. The CV/GM is one of the highest-rated for crash-worthiness...actual numbers are available on-line, I'm sure...I don't know them offhand...
4. Trans is programmed to enter OD w/lockup as quickly as possible (CAFE)...with only light throttle, it unlocks, with a little more, it downshifts...makes it seem like it's hunting... Dennis's chip fixes this completely.
5. I have no build quality issues with mine, other than the ubiquitous sub-woofer issue...easily solved at dealer...
6. It's not a stump-puller at the low end...the 4.10 gears will fix this
7. Dennis's chip will improve part-throttle response, no penalty that I'm aware of...improves shift-points and quality, too
8. I think only one of us has had unintended acceleration, and his was fixed by the dealer...doesn't seem to be a design flaw or major issue...
9. Corrosion resistance...can't help you, other than to say we use a fair amount of salt out here, and my '94 T-bird has held up quite well, thank you
10. 55/45 F/R
LincMercLover
01-26-2003, 09:39 PM
I don't really trust the EPA numbers... I get 33mpg on the highway with my WS6!
:uzi: Damn those GM's and their 6 speed manuals with 2 OD's!
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 09:47 PM
Thanks, guys...
I know it was a whopper of an opening post, but you gotta imagine what I'm going through here, sifting through TONS of posts about the different issues and characteristics... it's a tough decision to make.
The 300A/300B thing had me worried because I want to make sure I get the car I need/want. Similarly, I just came across a post by someone who was glad they did not get TC... it's stuff like this that has me wondering if I will lose out on something if I don't equip the car properly.
The 'fuel door' comment has me completely baffled... I read a post about this maybe becoming an option, is this what you mean?
The 33 mpg in my WS6 is US gallons... basically just keeping it at 65-70 mph without cruise-control and just steady-pedalling it. Even the A/C was left on. I understand I won't get near this with the MM, but I'd be happy with 25mpg.
Honestly. That's what I can squeeze off with my GTA (best of 27 mpg) on totally 100% long-distance highway driving. I have no problem with getting lower than that if I, um, *enjoy* myself a bit.
:D
Fantastic news about the crash-worthiness... thanks guys! This will make a good selling point for the missus...
Looks like the chip is the proper way to tackle the tranny shift issues. I am a firm (!) believer in firm shifts, as a way to minimize wear on the clutches and bands. Speaking of which, I'm glad to hear the improvements are across the band. I won't be using this car for drag racing (ahem... in case the wife is reading this) so super-traction is only important to me as far as keeping control of the car. I don't mind losing said control with my permission. ;)
One more thing... how *tight* is the interior? How long can I expect rattle-free interior components, especially in cold weather? My Civic *finally* produced one interior rattle earlier this week, when temps dropped to -15F (-40F with windchill). Next day, it was warmer and the rattle was gone again. :D
Thanks again for all the good info. The only thing worrying me now is the 'content' thing (300A/300B/fuel filler door/clock/etc.).
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 09:53 PM
Oh, forgot one more thing to ask:
Looking at pictures and at the MM that was sitting in the snow at the dealership today, I spotted two small white round things on the bottom of the seatbacks in the rear seating area. What are these? They look like small white bulleyes from a distance.
Consequently, would it be safe to assume the car has 3 child-seat anchors or just 2? I think I spotted 3. (again... another selling point for the missus...)
Lastly, is there ANYTHING one can do to create some sort of pass-through to the luggage area? My Civic has a fold-down rear seat back (60/40) but I'm sure the type of frame construction of the MM precludes this type of arrangement. However, I've read posts about removing the seatbacks to access the subwoofer, and I'm wondering if something can be done to create a pass-through?
Thanks again.
LincMercLover
01-26-2003, 09:54 PM
One bad thing about newer cars, they're put together with "push-on" everything, so with time, rattles will probably appear. My Dad's 98 F-150 has only managed to show one rattle in the dash after 113,000 miles. Nothing that poping the panel and reinforcing it won't fix.
WolfeBros
01-26-2003, 09:56 PM
There are still a ton of 300A's around in most parts.
I personally would take the remote fuel door and standalone clock and full sized spare over the T/C but that is just me.
As for tightness.....the car I test drove had a rattle in the dash and one in the rear package shelf. My car seems to be ok so far.....
I think LML had a rattle in the B pillar. Drive it before you sign for it is my best advice. Jump in the waters fine......you'll love the car.
LincMercLover
01-26-2003, 09:57 PM
Once again...
1) I think you're talking about the safety seat locator stickers. However, they are not stickers, they're like the iron on thing on the visors. DO NOT try to peal them off!
2) 3
3) Not unless you want to cut the body structure out.
WolfeBros
01-26-2003, 10:01 PM
Seat pass thru ??? You can put your Civic in this trunk !! :D
Actually..... I don't think so, on adding a pass thru that is.
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by LincMercLover
3) Not unless you want to cut the body structure out.
LOL! That's what I figured, but I figured I'd ask. Right now there isn't any car out there catching my eye that offers me this. Nonetheless, I grew up with large cars not having cargo pass-throughs, and I'll just have to resort to creative cargo loading should I have to transport something long.
Thanks.
FordNut
01-26-2003, 10:03 PM
More comments:
1. As far as I can tell, the early ones are 300A and are available only in black, have fullsize spare, remote fuel door release, clock built into dash separate from radio and optional trunk-mounted cd changer and trunk organizer. Heated seats, traction control, or sunroof are not available. The 300B should have standard traction control, optional sunroof and heated seats in addition to the 300A options, and additional colors but a space-saver type spare. The late-breaking news appears to be that the remote fuel door release is gone as well as the clock, which is now integrated with the radio. There may be some 300B's that still have the clock and fuel door release due to overlap during production.
2. I've gotten as low as 17 on the highway, having fun. I have gotten over 21 on the highway, cruising at 85. I usually average 18-19, combined highway and city.
3. Very safe.
4. Most tranny issues are with the "feel" when it shifts. It's apparently one way Ford has improved fuel economy to meet regulations. The chip makes it shift like a normal transmission (Or so I've heard, I haven't bought the chip yet).
5. Quality issues are generally minor details. Maintenance seems like a bit more expensive than I'm used to. Everybody recommends synthetic or synthetic blend on 3000 mile change schedule. I've always used Castrol dino oil on 5000 mile schedule.
6. Off the line it's a little disappointing, but once it's moving it'll accelerate like a bat out of he**. I've noticed that it's getting better now that I've got 1500 miles on it. I'll get 4.10's and a chip anyway.
7. My understanding is it's across-the-board.
8. Isolated incidents.
9. Tranny should hold up well, I believe it's the same one used in the CVPI, Lightning, and F250. Rust is an unknown, as this is the first year for some sheetmetal changes at the fenderwells, etc. Hopefully they're sealed up pretty well.
10. No numbers, but it handles great. Doesn't feel like a 4200 lb car, that's for sure.
Get one and enjoy it!
RF Overlord
01-26-2003, 10:05 PM
TripleTA:
From what I've heard, the MM is not as common in the Canada as it is here, so you may not have the luxury of many to choose from at the dealers...
1. Remote fuel door...big fu*#ing deal..you have to go around to the door to put the nozzle in, just flip it open. It's not like you can just pull up to the pump, push the button, and the car fuels itself...although I hear that's a reality in Japan...and if someone really wants to siphon your tank, the remote door won't stop them...
2. TC...I didn't like it in my T-bird (didn't have a choice) and I'm just as glad I don't have it in the MM...the Traction-Lok does very nicely.
3. Clock...who cares if it's stand-alone, or in the radio...with the key on, it works either way. (or at least it's supposed to)
4. Heated seats...that might be nice if it's -15°...
Please don't take offence at any of the above...my point is that it's a GREAT car, both to look at and to drive...don't sweat the small stuff, if you can find one with any/all of the above goodies, beauty...but don't let that stop you.
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by WolfeBros
Seat pass thru ??? You can put your Civic in this trunk !! :D
ROFLMAO! I have fond memories of the cavernous trunk in the '85 Parisienne (wait a minute... that makes it sound like I've been the target of a mob hit!). The '03 Town Car I spent a week with earlier this month had a fairly big trunk, and I'm wondering if it's the same format/shape as the MM (and GM, and CV, etc.). To the Civic's credit, it does have a fairly big trunk, for the size of vehicle.
WolfeBros
01-26-2003, 10:14 PM
BTW.....welcome to the board. IMHO the MM will make you a very nice, safe family car........that you can have a ball with.
The wife doesnt have to know how fast it is and how much you can still do to improve it even more. ;)
RF Overlord
01-26-2003, 10:15 PM
^^^what he said^^^
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by RF Overlord
2. TC...I didn't like it in my T-bird (didn't have a choice) and I'm just as glad I don't have it in the MM...the Traction-Lok does very nicely.
...
3. Clock...who cares if it's stand-alone, or in the radio...with the key on, it works either way. (or at least it's supposed to)
The TC on my WS6 works in conjunction with the 4-channel ABS system. In my opinion, it works pretty well in street situations (detrimental in drag-strip scenarios though) and has really helped me out in 'high-pucker-factor' situations. Considering the snowy situations we encounter in our winters, I was hoping TC would come in handy, combined with really good snow tires. I don't have the option of getting a 4th 'summer-only' car.
With the clock, I do appreciate having the station frequency visible at all times. Does the omission of a stand-alone clock mean I have to hit a 'recall' button to see the frequency? Or is it a separate item on the display? Also, if these cars are being equipped with different radios, are the 'new' ones as good as the old? Better?
By the way, no offense taken on the comments. I'm sweating the small stuff because it's going to mean replacing the sensible economical car of the family with something that I'll be really into, and as I'm already stretching the envelope as far as "number of impractical cars" in the household with 3 Trans Ams that take a lot of my attention, I need to make sure I tweak this decision as best as possible, so as to optimize the experience. You guys have been a tremendous help this evening, tying together all I've been reading and wondering about for days.
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by WolfeBros
BTW.....welcome to the board. IMHO the MM will make you a very nice, safe family car........that you can have a ball with.
The wife doesnt have to know how fast it is and how much you can still do to improve it even more. ;)
Thanks for the welcome, you guys have really helped me gather some good info on the car. No joke, all other car purchases have been a breeze compared to what I'm considering here... I'm essentially foregoing a solid dependable hasn't-cost-me-a-penny econo machine for something I have no experience with. If it turns out to be a bad move (or I find myself short-changed option-wise or content-wise), I'll be the one to blame and I suspect I'll lose credibility with the wife. She already knows my logic is tainted by my fascination with the MM.
(I did make a mention of the car's exhaust and power yesterday... she said I had been gaining points on the safety and comfort issues but lost it all when I brought up the exhaust/power thing. :rolleyes: )
Next step: gotta go scare up a test-drive this week.
Thanks for putting up with all my newbie questions...
RF Overlord
01-26-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by TripleTransAm
I don't have the option of getting a 4th 'summer-only' car.
That's a good point, dude...but, and I'm not saying this to steer you away from the car, a rear wheel drive muscle sedan is not exactly ideal for winter driving in the Great White North...nor even here on the Cape of Cod...TC may indeed be beneficial in your situation, so any of the 300B cars should have it, you just might not get the fuel door, and the clock, etc...oh yeah, I almost forgot...they come with a donut spare now, too...
WolfeBros
01-26-2003, 10:34 PM
TripleTrans.......repeat after me to wifey.......
Big......safe.........4 doors......family car........huge trunk........
decent mileage........safe........big .........family.......did I mention 4 doors?.......safe........famil y......trunk.....and oh BTW Dear......I think you can get heated seats !!!!!
that should do it.......NOOOOOOOO dont mention.....fast ......exhaust.......18" tires......or 302 HP...:banana2:
RF Overlord
01-26-2003, 10:40 PM
"...lost it all when I brought up the exhaust/power thing..."
Dunno, man; if your wife puts up with you owning THREE TAs, you may be SOL on this one...though it would STILL be a better choice than buying a Stupid Useless Vehicle... :D
Good luck...(and I mean that sincerely)
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by RF Overlord
That's a good point, dude...but, and I'm not saying this to steer you away from the car, a rear wheel drive muscle sedan is not exactly ideal for winter driving in the Great White North...
Precisely why I really gotta think this through and make sure I'm making this decision fully informed of all factors. I appreciate your honesty.
Let me put it this way... my dad is going to look at me with the same look he gave me when I said I bought a third Trans Am. :rolleyes: And I *KNOW* that it will be a decision made more by emotion than common sense. Right now, the Civic is still on warranty and will probably fetch some good coin in the condition it's in. Problem is: it's so damned boring, and for child-daycare reasons I drive a minimum of 80 miles a day... I *NEED* some excitement. And if our family expands on schedule, I'll need the side-impact safety and solidity.
(never thought you'd hear THAT from a potential MM owner?)
Side issue: I have no brand loyalty (I just like Trans Ams, that's all... a lot) but I gotta hand it to Ford for making wine out of water in select markets. First the ponycar continues to sell well in a 'dead' market (with heritage details to boot!) and now they've cornered the big engined muscle sedan market as well (ie. no more ImpalaSS worth speaking of, etc.).
WolfeBros
01-26-2003, 10:43 PM
Well RF......we gave him our best advice.
Now its up to him. :lol:
TripleTransAm
01-26-2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by WolfeBros
Well RF......we gave him our best advice.
Now its up to him. :lol:
LOL! And as I mentioned before, it is much appreciated. I will continue to comb the forum for info on these cars, so I can approach the dealer as if I was his worst nightmare. :rock:
It worked for me when I bought my WS6... got it for $4000 below sticker, turns out the dealer didn't realize the car was already sold out before they built the first one. He still didn't catch on when the order finally went through (they added 300 extra cars, of which 10 were for Canada... I was #8 of these extra cars).
Sheesh... you know, by checking out the Ford of Canada web site, you'd think it was just a matter of checking off 2 lousy options (heated seats and organizer) and voila, a new MM. Now it's 'filler door' this, and 'clock' that and 'spare' this... LOL!
RF Overlord
01-26-2003, 10:50 PM
Yah, Wolfe; he's on his own, now...
TripleTA:
"For Those About to Rock, We Salute You"
"May the Force be with you..."
RCSignals
01-26-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by TripleTransAm
1) I've seen references to a 300A and 300B model. A local dealer has a Marauder 300A with TC,
That would be correct for a Canadian 300A, since they weren't introduced in Canada until TC was available
Crash-worthiness...
the Marauder has a quadruple five star crash rating, which means five star for front and rear passengers when belted in properly.
5) build-quality:
I think you'll find the build quality is quite good.
6) low-end performance: I've read complaints ranging as bad as comparing it to a V6 Sable to being satisfactory for a big car. I've yet to test drive the Marauder but have recently spent a week with a new Town Car and the engine did have the darnedest trouble spinning that one rear wheel. What's the real deal?
Uh yeah, that Sable thing LOL
the Marauder has trac-loc, so no single wheel spinning
9)corrosion-resistance: let's face it, every time I look at my Civic, I get the urge to give it a good lick and break out the Tequila, there's that much salt in use around here during the winter. My family has had brief stints with Ford products over the years and these turned out to be rather unsatisfactory experiences due to [b]premature corrosion (and tranny woes). What's the real deal? I drove past a mid 90's Grand Marquis this evening with perforated front fenders.... isolated mishap?
That corrosion is a Montreal curse, but you know that. Ford has a good corrosion warranty
10)weight distribution: I've owned several Civics of model years from 1984-1998 and all were well balanced, which is great for winter driving. I've also driven a 1985 Parisienne through many winters and found it too was well balanced. How does the Marauder fare in this area?
stated as 55/45. closer to 50/50 than many cars
Scott
01-27-2003, 02:05 AM
hey buddy..............all in all........buy it.............
thats what my wife said..........and I have been tickled pink
honest
martyo
01-27-2003, 03:19 AM
RF:
Stupid Useless Vehicle?? That's easy for some guys who has say, a couple of rabbits or something. But when ya gotta take two 105 lb dogs to the boat.....
Macon Marauder
01-27-2003, 06:29 AM
3TA: My advice is to go for it if you can find one optioned the way you want/need.
At first my wife was like, "Well, I think you're crazy, but whatever makes you happy."
But lately I've noticed that she keeps coming up with reasons for driving the Marauder herself. Hmmmm...
SergntMac
01-27-2003, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by WolfeBros
TripleTrans.......repeat after me to wifey.......
Big......safe.........4 doors......family car........huge trunk........
decent mileage........safe........big .........family.......did I mention 4 doors?.......safe........famil y......trunk.....and oh BTW Dear......I think you can get heated seats !!!!!
Wolfe...you stole my line, bud, now I got nuttin ta say at all...Jeeze....
Paul T. Casey
01-27-2003, 07:03 AM
mileage, I got 27 on the highway (2 tanks from TN to RI). I've also got aroud 15mpg "hot-rodding" around town.
low end perf. get the rpm's up and it's not bad, remember you're not buying a cobra or a viper
balance don't know numbers but it behaves rather nicely, stays real flat and sticky on curves. took flat ramp (no banking) at 60-70 mph saturday night with 3 add'l large men on board and it was like on rails.
if you got the dough, it's a great ride
LincMercLover
01-27-2003, 08:45 AM
Sarge,
Well, he probably still needs some assistance in color choice... :D
TripleTransAm
01-27-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by LincMercLover
Well, he probably still needs some assistance in color choice... :D
Hardy har har... :rolleyes:
I was initially intrigued by the availability of the blue, but after seeing one of the photos on this site, I can't say it moves me as much as the black.
The interesting part about all this is that my three Trans Ams are all black... so I'd be essentially getting a 4th black car. *sigh*
Interior color: definitely the darkest (Charcoal?).
Beadhead
01-27-2003, 05:28 PM
TTA: I'm coming out of one of the BEST cars ever made for handling snow/ice conditions: a '93 Celica Turbo 4wd. No, the MM is not as adept at handling the white stuff, but I have no trepidations about taking it out in any but the worst winter conditions. Just me 2CW.
SaxGuy
01-27-2003, 05:53 PM
I too was a Trans Am fanatic until I got into an accident in it. It was great car, but it wasn’t a tank, and it different offer me good protection. I had been using it as a daily driver in Chicago which also has its bouts of snow, but it handled pretty well with the Traction Control. (Just not meant for a winter daily driver) As for the rusting problem, I'm not sure because I’ve never driven a Ford. I know that State troopers who were driving 97 Crown Victoria’s were complaining about sever rusting and ultimately stopped using them. I do not know if this will happen on the Marauder, but I think that there are some materials that can be used to help stop corrosion. As for the Marauder, it’s a very personal choice and a car that does not appeal to all. After taking a test drive in one, I found it to be a great car but I wanted Traction control. Now I'm hearing that there is no stand-a-lone clock?!?!?!?!?!:flamer: I wish I could get the traction control, and the clock. Either way, It's a good car and offers wonderful performance; especially for the size! Either way, good luck with the decision, and welcome!!!!!
TripleTransAm
01-27-2003, 07:59 PM
Called the dealer with the Marauder in stock... I schmoozed with the guy for a short while. Thanks to all the info I got studying the forums here, I was able to impress the guy somewhat with my research.
The Marauder on his lot has about 100 km on it (about 60 miles). I unintentionally made a reference to the car as being a 'demo' and he corrected me quickly, saying it was NEW, and all those miles on it were test drives. Semantics, I know... but 60 miles of test driving a car like this makes it a 'demo' in my book. *shrug*
Anyway, I've got a test drive booked for 6pm Wednesday night. It should be getting fairly dark by then, so I'll have a good idea of the instrumentation lighting. I'll be bringing the missus with me... sounds like she's fairly sold on the car, even though she hasn't really looked at it much (she's really into the Town Car looks-wise).
There was one point of contention during the phone conversation with the dealer droid. He couldn't find ANY reference to heated seats in his ordering literature. Meanwhile, Ford of Canada website shows this option in the 'build it yourself' area. I'll be calling Ford of Canada tomorrow to get the lowdown.
Marauderman
01-27-2003, 08:26 PM
Am so impressed with everyone's comments so much,,I ,,I ,just want to buy another one-------where's, that lotto ticket....ummm,, lets see those numbers again.... :beer: :banana:
jgc61sr2002
01-27-2003, 09:00 PM
Heated seats are available I have them in a 300B and as for the clock it is to the right side of the radio face plate with the station you have tuned to on the left, both visable at all times. John :up:
the fat bastid
01-27-2003, 09:09 PM
i'd like to see some shots of the console for the clock differences...if someone can post a side by side that would be great...time to check out my booklet agian.
also, here in jersey we cant pump our own gas, our arms are too feeble. but there is a law saying its unlawful. Anyways, its more handy to have the auto-lever. any one have any more info on this?
(so in a way our cars do fill themselves so eat it!)
SaxGuy
01-27-2003, 09:18 PM
I too would like to see a side by side comparison. Is there any empty space where the clock should be mounted? I swear, you can’t have your cake and eat it too!
cyclone03
01-27-2003, 09:32 PM
TTA,
4 black cars,and you live in snow country?
You got it bad man!
RCSignals
01-27-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by TripleTransAm
There was one point of contention during the phone conversation with the dealer droid. He couldn't find ANY reference to heated seats in his ordering literature. Meanwhile, Ford of Canada website shows this option in the 'build it yourself' area. I'll be calling Ford of Canada tomorrow to get the lowdown.
Here is the Marauder Order Guide for Canada
https://web.msslib2.dealerconnection.c om/RightSite/getcontent/myfile.pdf?DMW_OBJECTID=09000c 5880336e93
TripleTransAm
01-28-2003, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Paul T. Casey
I've also got aroud 15mpg "hot-rodding" around town.
Hmmm.... 15mpg while 'hot rodding' would most definitely be up my alley, mileage-wise. Last time I tooled around in a big RWD tank with a V8, I'd get MUCH worse than 15mpg when 'hot rodding'. Very acceptable in my book.
In fact, it was all the reminscing about that old boat of mine that got me thinking of getting back to my big-car/RWD roots. I still miss my old Pontiac, but one day I'll find a solid example and perform a sentimental restoration.
Here's to my old girl, wherever she may currently be...
http://www.tripletransam.com/pari.html
TripleTransAm
01-28-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by cyclone03
4 black cars,and you live in snow country?
You got it bad man!
I am a sad sad sad pathetic human being...
I swore never to own another black car after spending a few years doing car shows every weekend with my GTA in the mid-to-late 90's. Keep in mind it was my daily driver (non-rainy-days, though). Come to think of it, it still is... but I've since moved on from my car show mania.
http://www.tripletransam.com/gta/gta_14_1a.jpg
Then I ordered the WS6 in ... black. Okay, two black cars.
http://www.tripletransam.com/ws6/ws6_b.JPG
Then I spotted the '78 and got a killer deal on it (all original, currently undergoing gradual freshening-up):
http://www.tripletransam.com/78ta/78_drvway_1.jpg
So, that's my stash:
http://www.tripletransam.com/2002/Dscf5375w3.jpg
So, now comes the question: what do you guys think of your paint jobs, from the factory? With the current winter muck, it will be hard to seriously evaluate the quality of the test-driver's paint tomorrow night... are you guys totally satisfied with the paint quality?
TripleTransAm
01-28-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by RCSignals
Here is the Marauder Order Guide for Canada
https://web.msslib2.dealerconnection.c om/RightSite/getcontent/myfile.pdf?DMW_OBJECTID=09000c 5880336e93
Fantastic, RC. Merci beaucoup ("Thanks a lot" in french).
I'm going to call Ford of Canada tomorrow (didn't have time today) and see if anything has changed recently.
jgc61sr2002
01-28-2003, 07:07 PM
The paint quality on my 2003 MM is superior to the paint on my 2000GM (black) which had foriegn matter in the paint,(only one spot) athough I left it alone. It is my opinion no one can paint like the factory. The dealer offered to fix it but probably whould have messed it up. (didn't give him the chance) John
Beadhead
01-28-2003, 07:52 PM
FYI: since you're in Montreal, you should know that all of the first run of Canadian market MM's came standard with: traction control, separate clock (below radio), remote fuel door release and trunk mounted CD changer. The only option was a removable trunk organizer (highly recommended). If this is the model which appeals to you, I'm sure your dealer can stoll locate one for you.
P.S.: price I paid in early Dec. was $44,600 Can. (incl. trunk organizer & delivery).
TripleTransAm
01-28-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Beadhead
FYI: since you're in Montreal, you should know that all of the first run of Canadian market MM's came standard with: traction control, separate clock (below radio), remote fuel door release and trunk mounted CD changer. The only option was a removable trunk organizer (highly recommended). If this is the model which appeals to you, I'm sure your dealer can stoll locate one for you.
P.S.: price I paid in early Dec. was $44,600 Can. (incl. trunk organizer & delivery).
Hot dog, that explains the car I'll be test-driving tomorrow. Truth is, my wife and I are both pretty set on heated seats since we imagine leather seats must be pretty damned cold in the winter (my WS6 is a summer-only vehicle). The car we're looking at tomorrow has the organizer as well, equipped identically to yours.
So you recommend the organizer??? Hmm, I never really considered it... what's your reason for recommending it?
Listed price is $48xxx Can. and to be honest, I was hoping to be able to cut a deal similar to yours. I wonder if similar rebates are still in effect (the dealer droid indicated a willingness to negotiate).
Mark McQuaide
01-29-2003, 07:35 AM
My paint is quite nice. No complaints. But I don't think you can eval paint at night, especially if the car isn't clean. I had the advantage of buying off the showroom floor, which was great. If you could start your test drive with a freshly washed car, inside the service area, you could check it out before driving.
Beadhead
01-29-2003, 09:36 PM
Yeah, heated seats would be a big plus. The wife's Subie has dual range bun warmers and they're great in our climate. The trunk organizer is terrific -- adjustable dividers to keep your stuff from sliding around. It has hinged and removable lids, which makes it possible to get groceries home while still in their bags. If you need the extra luggage space, its easily removed. Too bad we can't get the factory rebates our U.S. buddies get, but at least the dealer s/b willing to dicker. Good luck, its a terrific ride!
TripleTransAm
01-29-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Beadhead
Too bad we can't get the factory rebates our U.S. buddies get, but at least the dealer s/b willing to dicker. Good luck, its a terrific ride!
Yes, I found this out in person this evening. The dealer droid was a bit tough to deal with, it was impossible to stay on topic. I'm a fairly direct person and had to tell him right up front that I had done some research on the car and pretty much knew all there was to know about the car so we could focus on the number-crunching... otherwise I'm sure I'd still be there 6 hours later due to all the diversions in topics of conversation. *sigh* I don't think I've ever gotten to know so many intimate details of a dealer salesman's life ever!
Nonetheless, the preliminary number he threw at me was $46300 CAN for pretty much a carbon copy of your car. 5.9% financing for 60 months, however the monthly numbers looked fishy. We even talked leasing and I have to admit I was a bit confused... at a lower lease rate and only a few thousand more to amortize over the 36 month period, the monthly numbers came out to over 50% higher than what I leased my WS6 for!!! I'm going to double-check with another dealership tomorrow, just to make sure this guy wasn't out in left field.
Worst part of it all, supposedly some 70 year old guy came into the dealership this morning and put a $1000 deposit on the car, pending his wife's approval (he's upgrading from a '94 GM). So... no test drive. :mad:
I did make the sales droid fire up the car in the showroom, though. The engine sounded nice but a little quieter than I was expecting. I'm assuming things are much louder once the engine is above 1500 RPM... I was once told the 4.6l shares firing order with the LS1 in my WS6 and this explains why both engines are fairly quiet at idle. Nothing a pair of well-placed cutouts won't fix.
I also found out the dealership *supposedly* paid $44158 CAN for the car. I don't know if this is the actual dealer cost or if it's a matter of 'creative accounting'.
mrs marauder
01-30-2003, 09:33 PM
My MM is a 300B, date code 11/04/02 has TC, standalone clock, fuel door release and full size spare.......:D
WolfeBros
01-30-2003, 09:41 PM
Well done Mrs Marauder. :up:
Marauderman
01-31-2003, 04:20 PM
TripleTransAm-
Being located in the southern USA, will explain my thought process on this but why can't you go across into the USA and buy MM cheaper and return and get it registered there where you live in Canada?
Beadhead
01-31-2003, 05:10 PM
Registering a U.S. car in Canada involves approval of Transport Canada, a department of our federal government. The car would have to be converted to daytime running lights, odometer in km, and possible other mods to obtain approval. The mods and the surrency exchange would probably cost more than you'd save in rebates. Great thought though!!!
RF Overlord
01-31-2003, 05:24 PM
Bead:
If your "federal government" is as efficient and easy to deal with as ours, then you should have no problem. Just go in and explain it to them...they'll understand...
Beadhead
01-31-2003, 05:29 PM
LOL: they're VERY understanding and EXTREMELY helpful -- been round this curve before!
04MEMA
01-31-2003, 05:34 PM
Hi - just read all the posts, and I've got to admit, I'm dying to hear what you think of the test drive! I've test driven two of them and both times had a big happy smile across my face. The car may not be everything, but it's FUN. Haven't bought one yet, I'm gambling that rebates will get even better, and I want a factory sunroof and TC. Also I'm a bit torn between other cars I could get for around the same or less money that outperform the MM and wouldn't need any upgrade$ (chip, gears). Anyhow, get out there and test drive, I'm anxious to hear your and your wife's impression!!
P.S. What a great bunch of members - you're all so helpful and knowledgable - could that be passion I detect? ;) - Gotta Luv It!!
Marauderman
01-31-2003, 06:25 PM
Whoa here!!!! Got two things to say here--
1. RF --- your comment was :lol: ---couldn't stop :lol: !! --Sorry a person's address hinders their ability to save money... right about getting gov't--involved..but maybe the answer is this.....down in the South when this happens--we just register the car next door(state) with an address( valid from friend house/ other help) and by pass that BS so...maybe you could do same---they don't penalize "visiting" cars do they?
Marauderman
01-31-2003, 06:32 PM
Whoops --2nd item fell off somewhere---okay # 2
* jspnlap states".... torn between other cars I could get for around the same or less money that outpreform MM and wouldn't need any upgrades..."
HELLO ALL- Compared size to size--I DON'T THINK SO!!! Yeah--Maybe some much less weighted car with alot of horse--BUT equal to others similuar cars--NO!!!
Do I hear an AMEN!!!
04MEMA
01-31-2003, 07:34 PM
Not to argue with you, but to clarify my statement - I didn't stipulate size to size or new-only cars. A used 5 series BMW is almost as big on the inside, is much more sophisticated, can be had with a 6 speed manual, and you can pick one up for around $30k. That goes the same for used 7 series', Lexus GS 400's, LS 400's, Infiniti Q45's, all cars that have already taken the big depreciation hit of the first few years. They all were much more expensive when new and being high end cars had less expenses spared in their construction. Certainly they are EXPENSIVE to repair (which is one of my main problems with them) and they don't have the hot rod image (which is the other objection) that I love about the MM.
If I were to sacrifice my like for a big car, the WRX STI will be around $30k and is certain to be an absolute riot. The GTO is likely to be awesome, but only two doors is a drag - they should be bringing the commodore too.
Also a more humdrum car like the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP can run low 15's, and with rebate cash and GM card money I could get one totally loaded with heads up display, moonroof etc., out the door for $24k versus A plan on the marauder out the door for around $30k. There's an awful lot of choices out there for us enthusiasts.
A Pontiac Bonneville SSEi can run with an MM and can be had for around $30k. It is about the same size as an MM but isn't as heavy, but that's why it doesn't need as much power to be quicker.
The reason I keep coming back to liking the Marauder is the fact that it's big and practical, yet alot of fun with a true hot rod feeling that comes from it being basically a souped up Grand Marquis.
Anyway thanks for the input - :D
TripleTransAm
01-31-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by jspnlap
I'm dying to hear what you think of the test drive!
...
I'm anxious to hear your and your wife's impression!!
If you're referring to my test drive, no problem... I'll post my thoughts, especially since I've had 24 hours to digest it all.
My wife first went with the sales droid for about 10 minutes or so, just through the neighboring streets. The droid himself was fairly nice, quiet and not the slimy sales type at all... a nice change from the overly friendly type from the night before. Only problem was his apparent unwillingness to deal, whereas my hyper-droid from the night before seemed fairly open at first contact (although there was no test drive possible due to the car being on hold for someone).
When handing off the kid to my wife before my own segment of the test session, I managed to ask what the first impression was. My wife is Swedish, and is able to show restraint of astronomical proportions... she said it was 'nice'. Okay... lots o' emotion there! :P
My turn: the dealer drove the first 2-3 minutes or so, and we switched drivers in a parking lot nearby. The roads were slick and snowy, so high powered launches were out of the question. However, I did note that the traction control is one of the smoothest I've ever witnessed. First impression is that it's as effective as the one on my WS6, but oh-so-much-smoother and refined.
The exhaust note was nice, but too quiet for my tastes. It's probably very nice at WOT, but I won't be spending much time there. I had to 'enhance' the sound on my WS6 through creative exhaust modding (ie. extra unmuffled pipe on my single-outlet 1998 WS6 exhaust) so I feel I could get the same result with a cutout or two on the MM, since the exhaust notes sound so similar. (I think it has to do with the firing order of the engines being supposedly the same, but I'm not sure about that).
Anyway, I managed to get this out of my WS6, hopefully I can get a similar sound from the MM:
http://www.tripletransam.com/ws6-old/exh2.wav
Okay, back to the test drive: the suspension was firm but FAR from bone jarring or excessively stiff. Any magazine tester that claims this is a harsh suspension needs corrective surgery of some sort. My GTA is harsh... my '78 is fairly rough riding... my WS6 is tight and controlled... the MM falls somewhere very close to the WS6. Heck, sometimes I think my '98 Civic 4 door rides harsher than the MM (not in a good way, though). To the MM's credit, I kept getting flashbacks of my dear old '85 Parisienne with the top ride/handling suspension... I LOVED the way that old car handled (I think the caster and camber were messed up from the factory, to my benefit though) and the MM reminded me a lot of that controlled big car ride.
Steering felt good... I'm kind of a fan of the recirculating ball type of steering (at least the General Motors kind) and generally hate rack/pinion (my WS6 has this) but the MM had a good steering precision. I always knew where that big hunk of metal was pointing.
I couldn't believe how good the traction was even with those Big-Ass (tm) tires. I think this means the car is well balanced... again, I had GREAT experiences with my Parisienne in the snow, even with winter tires only on the rear. This car made me feel safe and totally in control.
Comfort: honestly, the seats can't compare with those in my WS6 or GTA. But I sort of expected that. I did feel I sat a little high compared to what I've experienced in the past from big cars... maybe an inch drop in seat height would suit me fine, but I humbly acknowledge I'm not the target audience for this car. Bolster support would be nice, though. The heated seats are... well, they get pretty toasty! ;)
The sound system sounded a little muddy... as if there was a whallop of low bass and lots of crispy highs, but no mids. I had no chance to play with the settings, although the subwoofer sounded muffled and rattly... I assume the famous plate issue is at play here.
Content-wise, I would have liked to see a few more high-end creature comfort dealies. For this much over a Grand Marquis, I'd have liked a driver info center indicating miles per gallon, remaining until empty, oil life, etc. I'll settle for the overhead compass, I guess. This is why I regret the departure of such items as remote fuel door release and the standalone clock. Also, the area around the radio deserves a trim plate, honestly!
Oh yeah, the tranny was a little intrusive in the 2-3 upshifting, but I'm hearing this is cured by the magical 'chip'! ;)
So now the missus and I are playing with numbers and seeing whether we can afford it or not (I was honestly hoping for a Canadian equivalent of the US rebates, no such luck). In the meantime, my wife is now whole-heartedly admitting she LOVES the car and is now hoping we can work out something to get one delivered by late April or early May (maybe sooner if we find a viciously good deal!). This is good, as it would give me time to get:
1) a demonicly dark tint on all windows (illegal, but hey... what the heck)
2) a remote starter
before the summer.
Please, no flames, but to say this car is the second coming of Jesus H. Christ is a bit far-fetched. In my wildly-limited test drive, there was no one single thing that made me go 'WOW, I GOTTA have this MOFO!' but rather it was a solid-feeling tight package that was very confidence-inspiring. I love to drive, and I can see myself looking forward to the 2 hour drive to work in the morning just to be behind the wheel of this car. I can't put it all in words, but it does give me the feeling I'll be very happy with this car.
I have no brand loyalty... if General Morons built a car that offered me what I was looking for (as it did with the Trans Ams all these years, and yes I did put my money where my mouth is), I'd be pitting the MM and the other offerings against each other and I'd end up buying what I felt was best for me.
I have a feeling that even in this scenario, the MM would fare nicely. And since the MM is the only entry in that market segment... well then, I think I hear Jesus H. Christ knocking at the door.
In summary, a big thumbs-up to Mercury for having the balls to bring something like this to market, and I sincerely hope it addresses all publicized shortcomings in a timely fashion so that it can start producing some good sales numbers.
mdmarauder
02-01-2003, 11:28 AM
My first test-drive was not the same. I definately said "I gotta get this MOFO!"
martyo
02-01-2003, 11:42 AM
I was with mdmarauder. Can't wait for the dealer to deliver mine. I should have it by Tuesday (delays in having the moonroof done). Probably just as well 'cause the weather is not the greatest today.
TripleTransAm
02-02-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by mdmarauder
My first test-drive was not the same. I definately said "I gotta get this MOFO!"
LOL! I suppose it was because I had read so much about the car on this site and I've had so much time behind the wheel of various large Fords that I sort of knew what to expect. I was also focusing on non-performance-related feedback, since stop-and-go traffic will preclude spirited driving most of the time.
So, I really tried to keep cool during the test drive, and tried to sense whether the car would feel good to drive. As I mentioned, the feelings were very satisfactory, the only shortcoming being the exhaust was quieter than I was led to believe. By the way, by satisfactory, I mean exactly that... I was satisfied. I had expectations, and the car seems to satisfy them. It did fit me like a glove, as I've always had a soft spot for a good-handling big car since my days with the old '85 Parisienne.
Now, everytime I look at one on the 'net, I get all hot and bothered and say to myself "I gotta get this car!!!". That's a good sign. My wife and I (in other words, "I") are doing our (my) homework as far as financial planning and such, in order to target a purchase sometime around May (ie. delivery at that point).
SouLRioT
01-04-2005, 12:26 PM
I hope your able to get a MM in Canada.
HAHA........what you didnt think I missed the date of 02/02/03 did you?
MM03MOK
01-04-2005, 03:23 PM
you!! :rolleyes: you!! :shake: you!! :nono:
bobbyc
02-02-2005, 10:06 AM
Get one ASAP! I just bought one, an '03 with 2000 miles, sight unseen, held my breath until it showed up and was as nice as the dealer said it was. It has a remote fuel door (which I love, cleaner look) swithchable T/C, clock in dash (which I love, breaks up the panel compared to the '04) space saver spare (who cares). I'm getting 20.5 mpg driving it any way I feel, which is usually 80-85 mph and getting there as quickly as possible. My only complaint is the driver seat has a squeek which I'll try and get the dealer to replace. As for handling, it makes the Crown Vic Police pkg feel the way the CVP makes a stock CV feel. This car is so *****in' I'm thinking of getting another one, putting it in moth balls as back up for the one I've got!
2003_MM_FYRE49
02-02-2005, 12:32 PM
Get one ASAP! I just bought one, an '03 with 2000 miles, sight unseen, held my breath until it showed up and was as nice as the dealer said it was. It has a remote fuel door (which I love, cleaner look) swithchable T/C, clock in dash (which I love, breaks up the panel compared to the '04) space saver spare (who cares). I'm getting 20.5 mpg driving it any way I feel, which is usually 80-85 mph and getting there as quickly as possible. My only complaint is the driver seat has a squeek which I'll try and get the dealer to replace. As for handling, it makes the Crown Vic Police pkg feel the way the CVP makes a stock CV feel. This car is so *****in' I'm thinking of getting another one, putting it in moth balls as back up for the one I've got!
Bobby C,
It sounds like you got your hands on a pre-decontented 300B Marauder :banana2: . Consider yourself lucky as there were very few of them made. I was lucky enough to get one myself. Post your VIN number and build date in the Build Date & V.I.N. Sequence forum at the top of the Community Discussion Forum. P.S. you can find your build date at the bottom of your window sticker. Thanks,
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