Winter Driving

[Kramer]

How does the MM perform in the snow?

I realize it is real wheel drive but I was hoping it might be ok except in heavy snow.

If not, any recommendations on tire choices for bad weather?

[ADE 1000]

How does the MM perform in the snow?



On the stock tires, not very good. I got through last winter on the stock tires, it did not snow much but I had to be extremely careful when it did.

This year I am not going to risk it, and I am going with 16" 2004 Grand Marquis steel wheels and covers with Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow tires in 215/65-16 front and 225/70-16 rear sizes. The Tirerack has Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 and Firestone Winterforce tires in 16" combinations that fit the Marauder as well.

There are 17" and 18" options that I examined in depth, but getting the diameters to jive with my 300B was not worth the effort. Unless you have big brakes, using 16" wheels of some kind are the most straight forward and cost effective option.

[ultravorx]

I have the toyo garit H/T winter tires (225/65/16 with PI rims) that are great!!! I also put a big rubber maid container in the trunk filled with sand. The car handles great, and never got stuck in the snow. It will only fishtale on command ;) Last year i was on the highway during "blizzard like" conditions and was passing out even 4x4 vehicles with no problem!!
Frank

[Hack Goby]

I plan on driving my car all winter with stock tires with the 4:10 gear.I am a little nervous about this.

[QWK SVT]

I plan on driving my car all winter with stock tires with the 4:10 gear.I am a little nervous about this.
My stock MM can be a handful in wet weather! I wouldn't even think of going through the winter without winter tires (at least not up here).

[2003DOHC]

I plan on driving my car all winter with stock tires with the 4:10 gear.I am a little nervous about this.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7931648239

Winter tires for sale.

[bigjon]

i would HIGHLY recommend putting 3-70lb sand tubes in your trunk. this may save your life. this helps a great deal with traction, at all speeds.

[BillyGman]

Forget about driving a Marauder in the snow w/the factory stock tires. You won't get very far in more than 4" of snow. But a good set of snow tires on all four corners will make a world of difference. It did for me last winter.

[tbore007]

kind of like driving on iceskates, i made it through last winter(stock tires in 4 plus inches) and i will again!

[CRUZTAKER]

With good snow tires the MM is awesome in even the heaviest snow. Both front and rear will be replaced to achieve maximum traction. I did it on a 300A w/o traction control and actually beat every suv off the line in 4-6 inches of snow.

I, on the otherhand, DO NOT weigh the cars trunk down. It wasn't needed IMO and in particular on a MM with an air ride suspension. The air ride is VERY expensive to replace down the road, and the weighing down of the rear only leads to premature air ride failure.

I am not guessing here, my father always over weighed the rear of his town car. I also saw the $1700 bill on a 4-year old car to replace the air ride.

[rayjay]

Another MM owner here in our county had to have his car flat bedded to a tire/wheel dealer when he couldn't make it home on the stock tires in heavy snow last winter in his 03 300A. With the tirerack winter package I expect to be ok. I put a set of the CVPI acorn center caps on the wheels. Looks like a unmarked PD unit now.

[jstevens]

I will run stock tires with my 4.10's.

And will sometimes shut off the t/c for fun times.

[snowbird]

I plan on driving my car all winter with stock tires with the 4:10 gear.I am a little nervous about this.
You shouldn't. Mt-Clemens is on the Pacific side of Costa Rica. Right ?

[427435]

With good snow tires the MM is awesome in even the heaviest snow. Both front and rear will be replaced to achieve maximum traction. I did it on a 300A w/o traction control and actually beat every suv off the line in 4-6 inches of snow.

I, on the otherhand, DO NOT weigh the cars trunk down. It wasn't needed IMO and in particular on a MM with an air ride suspension. The air ride is VERY expensive to replace down the road, and the weighing down of the rear only leads to premature air ride failure.

I am not guessing here, my father always over weighed the rear of his town car. I also saw the $1700 bill on a 4-year old car to replace the air ride.

Over-weighting the rear may not be good for the air bags, but weight, within reason, shouldn't lead to a pre-mature air bag failure. The '93 Grand Marquis, in my signature, has air suspension. It was used to tow a 3500 lb boat (with the trunk well loaded) until the Explorer showed up. It also always carried 300 lb of water softener salt (in bags of course) during the winter. Haven't had to replace any bags yet.

The bags do fail, but I don't think 200 -300 lbs will greatly change the rate of failure.

[dwasson]

Mine performs parking tests in the garage all winter. It does those well.

[BK_GrandMarquis]

I, on the otherhand, DO NOT weigh the cars trunk down. It wasn't needed IMO and in particular on a MM with an air ride suspension. The air ride is VERY expensive to replace down the road, and the weighing down of the rear only leads to premature air ride failure.

I am not guessing here, my father always over weighed the rear of his town car. I also saw the $1700 bill on a 4-year old car to replace the air ride.
These guy are supposed to make a very good replacement for the stock air bags. I've read about it on the CVN.net site. The guys that have installed them say it was simple and of good quality. I guess if your talking about a shop doing the work, I can see how the labor can add to the price.

[Badger]

Just watch for different spring rates when replacing your air springs.
My 98HPP was used for hauling all sorts of stuff. It has 99k with no repairs or malfunctions of the air suspension system.
I used the 98 last year through the snow storm here in DC with the stock RS-As. Car handles very predictably and usually did not have any problem except one dead stop at the bottom of the hill. Mind you it does not have a Limited Slip...just an open diff with traction control. I expect the MM to perform equally if not better with the limited slip.

[MSR7878]

I drove my 300A (sans traction control) all winter last year in CT, including and early January road trip to western south dakota with a return stop in Omaha (where I'm from) with over 1100 consecutive miles of highway snow driving then I was greeted to over 30" of snow on the ground in NE when I got there, at least 4" still on the road. All with OEM tires. IMHO If you can drive in the snow, you can drive in the snow, just be soft with the right foot!
-Mike

P.S. I did however get stuck on an iced over roadway one morning

[Kramer]

I have an 04 Marauder.

I don't really have room to store a set of tires for the Winter.

I was looking at some of the new hybrid composite chains that can be snapped onto the tires.

Anyone seen or heard about these?

[rayjay]

I have an 04 Marauder.

I don't really have room to store a set of tires for the Winter.

I was looking at some of the new hybrid composite chains that can be snapped onto the tires.

Anyone seen or heard about these?
If you live where it rarely snows and its just for short term/emergency use, chains would be fine. Have not heard of hybrid chains, but sounds like a good idea.

[mdmarauder]

I agree I drove all last year my 300A with the stock tires without too much of a problem. I expect my 04 to be better with the trac-control this year. I'm not a fan of snow tires.

[BillyGman]

I agree I drove all last year my 300A with the stock tires without too much of a problem. I expect my 04 to be better with the trac-control this year. I'm not a fan of snow tires.
Then you must not have had to drive in any snowstorms wich yielded 6" or more of snow, or you must not have very many hills where you live. Because my Marauder was terrible in the snow last winter until I got four snow tires. I dreaded even to have to come to a stop on a flat road at a traffic light because once the light turned green, it would take me so long to get the car going that the light would already be red again by the time I did. Which would have all the other cars behind me laying on their horns.

[MSR7878]

Billygman - did you drive your MM as modded in your signiture in the snow?

[John F. Russo]

I run my car everyday except when there is more than one inch of snow on the ground. Even then I drive super defensively and I keep four sets (two per wheel) of slip-on strap chains (two braids of chain/strap).

Last year I only used my chains twice. It takes me 15 minutes to put on the four straps.

My time is short here on earth. I don't intend to shortchange riding the car of my life four months of the year.

______________________________ _____________________
2003 Dark Blue Pearl 300B (Canadian) w/Light Flint (reversed
traction control, mini spare, trunked 6 disc CD changer,
clock-in-the-radio, heated front seats/mirrors, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02; converted new then used 2/28/03
-26,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph, one tank of gas
-Stock transmission upgraded with Performance Automatic
"Super Streeter" transmission version
-Wheel locks (Ford); godshead valve stem caps
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing; RainX; front Autobhanded
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03 (first drove it)
-Vortech supercharger (5 to 7 psig boost)
-377 RWTQ
-Metco control arms
-4.10 gears
-14 in. BaerClaw front brakes, two piston, slotted rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3
-Ford Racing Stud and Girdle
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y; rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-Dead pedal
-FordChip
-3/4 of a coil from each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ___________________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel (gone)

[BillyGman]

Billygman - did you drive your MM as modded in your signiture in the snow?Not exactly. last winter I had everything in my Marauder that I do now w/the one exception being the Supercharger. So I can see that having the 4.56 gears along w/the 3,000 RPM stall speed of the torque converter might have made it a bit more challenging for me to start off from a stand still in the snow w/out having snow tires, but since the car wouldn't make it up even very moderate hills, then I don't see where the gears nor the increased stall speed would've effected that in any negative way. But just for clarification, let me repeat by adding that once I had the true snow tires mounted on all four corners, the car went excellent in the snow, and even made it up some hills that some wrong wheel drive cars couldn't negotiate.

[Heavy351]

I drove my completely stock 300A all last winter here in Pittsburgh (lots of hills) without too much trouble. I did not put any weight in the trunk this time.

Had been driving my '88 P71 with 295/50r15's on the back year round for the last 8 years here including daily trips up and down Mt. Washington. In that car I had 2 sets of iron cylinder heads in the trunk.

I can count on one hand the days that were so bad I couldn't drive.

Because I am now driving my son everywhere, I invested in snowtires and rims this year.

If you are used to driving rear wheel drive cars in the snow you will be fine.

[BillyGman]

I can count on one hand the days that were so bad I couldn't drive.Well then wouldn't you have been able to drive on those days IF you had legit snow tires???

Because I am now driving my son everywhere, I invested in snowtires and rims this year.Doesn't this statement contradict your following statement below???

If you are used to driving rear wheel drive cars in the snow you will be fine.LOL...sometimes I think some guys are in denial as to how lousy their cars are in the snow w/out snowtires. :P Let me clarify something by stating that w/out the snowtires on my Marauder during the first snowstorm, I was able to get to every destination that I had to. However it was a pain in the behind, and there was one time when I had to take an alternate route since there were too many cars in front of me going up a hill to allow me to get a good running start. Which prevented me from getting up the hill. So that's why I bought the snow tires. So I wouldn't need to concern myself w/such things. And having four snowtires on the car enabled me to stop faster in the snow also, since most of the braking is done by the front brakes.

[Heavy351]

Let me clarify something..

The days that I couldn't drive wouldn't really have been any easier with the snow tires, chains, or 4 wheel drive. It was merely difference between possible and very dangerous. If I had cared about those few days that much I probably would be driving a SUV and suffering through the other 360 days of the year with a vehicle I did not like.

Denial? oh I think I am quite aware of the limitations of this automobile and others similar to it in deep snow. As is anyone else who was diving in my area before FWD and SUVs.

Kramer's original post seems to acknowledge that there are other choices in transportation other than the MM for this situation.

I don't see a contradiction in my choice to purchase snow tires when the decision was about convenience and peace of mind, not necessity.

Some of us have to live with the terrible compromise of a big, powerful, comfortable automobile almost 12 months of the year. Sigh... we all have our crosses to bear...

[Kramer]

and then there was this one time at band camp...

The alternative I was thinking about was something call Go-Claws..

They can be attached to both back tires in 3 minutes in the snow, and without having to move the car.

My only objection to these is that in the DC area it either covered or clear.

Meaning that I might need the claws to get out of my court...but not to drive the main roads...

If the main roads are not passable...I aint going into work.

The claws cannot be left on the tires or driven over 30...so in my case I would have to take them off almost immediately...

Still I may get a pair just in case. I have no place to store tires so, a winter set is not really practical....maybe I'll be a cheapo car at auction for the winter...

[BillyGman]

Let me clarify something..

The days that I couldn't drive wouldn't really have been any easier with the snow tires, chains, or 4 wheel drive.Hmmm.......maybe we should ask guys who plow driveways and parking lots w/their 4 wheel drive trucks if there's a difference between 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive, or a difference between snowtires and the "all-season" ones. I bet you many of them would say there's a difference.;) It was merely difference between possible and very dangerous.Yes, that was more or less my original point, only i didn't use those specific words. So I guess to a certain extent you agree w/me then. If I had cared about those few days that much I probably would be driving a SUV and suffering through the other 360 days of the year with a vehicle I did not like. And I don't blame you. However, most threads like these are started by people who have to drive their Marauder year round. otherwise, why even consider chains or snowtires? HELLO......

Denial? oh I think I am quite aware of the limitations of this automobile and others similar to it in deep snow. As is anyone else who was diving in my area before FWD and SUVs.Well then I guess despite your comment in your previous post which suggested that people will be "fine" w/out snowtires IF they're used to driving a RWD car, you obviously understand why many people would choose to buy snowtires for their Marauders.

Kramer's original post seems to acknowledge that there are other choices in transportation other than the MM for this situation.Well that's a given. there's always other choices. even if it boils down to taking mass transit. However "other choices" aren't always convenient nor desireable.

I don't see a contradiction in my choice to purchase snow tires when the decision was about convenience and peace of mind, not necessity.Which again is pretty much the way that I look at it, so there's no argumant there. I guess I just view the choice to buy snowtires for the Marauder a higher priority than you do since I don't have a truck like you do.

Some of us have to live with the terrible compromise of a big, powerful, comfortable automobile almost 12 months of the year. Sigh... we all have our crosses to bear...LOL....yeah, but if owning my Marauder the way it is, and having to drive it all year round was the only cross I had to bear, then I'd consider myself very fortunate. Especially since it will get me almost anywhere in the winter time w/snowtires on all four corners. :D

[stevengerard]

Believe me I know there can be a difference, when I had my SHO and had autocross tires on it, I had a rough time in winter even with front wheel drive. I also don't doubt that the MM isn't "easy" to drive in snow but hopefully with TC and past experience it shouldn't be that hard. Come on folks, look at the average age of the people on this list - how many of us have driven a RWD Big Block car in the snow - I know I have, slow, fast, forwards, backwards and manytimes sideways. Its just not that difficult to me, lots of fun and occasionally very scarey.

SuperCharged Doughnuts!

[BillyGman]

. Come on folks, look at the average age of the people on this list - how many of us have driven a RWD Big Block car in the snow - I know I have, slow, fast, forwards, backwards and manytimes sideways. Its just not that difficult to me, lots of fun and occasionally very scarey."Lots of fun" it is at about 10:00pm or 12:00 midnight on a weekday or in rural areas, but not in late afternoon or early evening traffic in the city or the suburbs.

SuperCharged Doughnuts!Yeah, I can get into that with or w/out snowtires!!! :D

[CRUZTAKER]

The main question is "is the Marauder good in the snow"? YES.

The footnote to the answer is: The OEM BFG's are not good in snow. They just plain are not, with the god's gift of traction control or without. Their snow rating is marginal. Most M+S ALL-SEASON tires rate marginal to poor. The Michelins on my Lincoln, as expensive as they were, are marginal. The Michelins on my VIC are lousy. Sure, I can trudge along slipping and sliding, losing front grip on corners, and sliding through intersections....but why put the extra stress in my and the wifes life?

There will always be some folks that feel the OEM all-season tires are fine in snow, but the majority of us who know what it's like to drive in some serious heavy snow, know that the answer is not to stay at home, hell, I'd have to stay home for two months if that was the case, the answer is snow tires.

If you want the true feeling of security throughout a REAL winter season, get snow tires.

[rayjay]

The tread compound and design of the OEM BFGs are no good for winter driving. Not to mention they are just too wide. Might as well have skis on the front. Last week they started mentioning the "S" word here on the weather forecasts. Glad I put them on. We received about 6" between yesterday and today. And so its starts again. If it would just go away the day after New Years, I would be much happier... :D

[CRUZTAKER]

We received about 6" between yesterday and today. And so its starts again. If it would just go away the day after New Years, I would be much happier... :D
Wow....snow already. Just cold around here. 37 today and windy.
I put the snows on the Lincoln and the Vic yesterday, as I will not be able to do any physical activities after Friday for a bunch of weeks.

Bring it on....we're ready.

BTW: Nice post. Some of know the know.:D

[Mikey's Girl]

Hey :cowboy:'s

I am a chick and I have driven the Marauder in the 6+ inches of snow - uphill from a stop, on factory tires, in Nebraska (where snow removal isn't a high priority to them) - and guess what not a horn beeped at me...know why I didn't get stuck...and I did it more than once.....My husband's Marauder is a 300A (for thiose who don't know - that means without Traction Control)

I would offer you free driving lessons, but since I'm busy, I can give you my daddy's phone # - he taught me how to do that when I was 16....:shot:

I agree with my husband if you can drive in the snow you can drive in the snow.....some are more talented I guess :baaa:

[BillyGman]

Hey :cowboy:'s

I am a chick and I have driven the Marauder in the 6+ inches of snow - uphill from a stop, on factory tires, in Nebraska (where snow removal isn't a high priority to them) - and guess what not a horn beeped at me...know why I didn't get stuck...and I did it more than once.....My husband's Marauder is a 300A (for thiose who don't know - that means without Traction Control)

I would offer you free driving lessons, but since I'm busy, I can give you my daddy's phone # - he taught me how to do that when I was 16....:shot:

I agree with my husband if you can drive in the snow you can drive in the snow.....some are more talented I guess :baaa:talk is cheap........I suppose you can pull start a Toro lawnmower better than any guy can, and can axe down a tree faster, and wear a necktie better too.........:duel: :rofl:

[Mikey's Girl]

Guess so since you do PLENTY of it....just give me a call when you feel the right storm comes around and you would like a demonstration :gunfire: ...anytime

[BillyGman]

The main question is "is the Marauder good in the snow"? YES.

The footnote to the answer is: The OEM BFG's are not good in snow. They just plain are not, with the god's gift of traction control or without. Their snow rating is marginal. Most M+S ALL-SEASON tires rate marginal to poor. The Michelins on my Lincoln, as expensive as they were, are marginal. The Michelins on my VIC are lousy. Sure, I can trudge along slipping and sliding, losing front grip on corners, and sliding through intersections....but why put the extra stress in my and the wifes life?

There will always be some folks that feel the OEM all-season tires are fine in snow, but the majority of us who know what it's like to drive in some serious heavy snow, know that the answer is not to stay at home, hell, I'd have to stay home for two months if that was the case, the answer is snow tires.

If you want the true feeling of security throughout a REAL winter season, get snow tires.very well put Barry.

[Heavy351]

Ok, you win I will never ever ever say I can drive my marauder in the snow.

I must be crazy to think that someone could actually navigate a marauder through anything resembling frozen water.

I guess it must be just me, just about half the people I meet think I am some kind of moron for voting the way I did, must be related somehow.

Seems only ONE person here is truly qualified to navigate a Marauder in the snow, it must be true! he says it is so. I bow before thee all knowing snow guy authority :bows:

Please forgive us and all of our ignorance.

[BillyGman]

Guess so since you do PLENTY of it....just give me a call when you feel the right storm comes around and you would like a demonstration :gunfire: ...anytimeSince we both live in the same homestate, give me a call when it snows in December and I'll challange you to a hill climb, and IF you agree, we will both be there w/our Marauders, and I'll have snowtires on mine without studs, and you will have the stock factory radials on yours. K? I know exactly what hill we will use for this. If you make it up the hill like I will, then I'll buy you a set of new back tires of your choice, and if you don't, and I do (which I did last year) then you buy me two new back tires of my choice. Otherwise, talk is cheap girly girl. I've sent you a PM w/my # if you dare....the hill is Horton Hill road in Naugatuck.If by any chance neither one of us makes it all the way up the Hill, then the one who makes it up the furthest wins.And you can even get a running start if you want. You suggested I give you a call, but I don't see a phone #. You have mine via PM. Like I said, talk is cheap.........but who's talk is the cheapest? Remember, you're the one who started this challenge by bragging about your so called driving abilities. I'm merely the one who has called you on your bluff. And I don't bluff. ;)

[Mikey's Girl]

Well dear I have only one problem with that, I will take your challange minus the tire bet, only for bragging rights...as long as there is snow on the road, and tissue for you to cry in when we are done...I will not give you my phone # cause I don't want to hear anymore hot air from you until I have to - I have your # so I will call you ....does that satisify you? and your needs?

P.S. I don't bluff either , so please remember the use of traction control would be considered cheating....... :duel: :razz:

And by the way I didn't ask you for anyone else's "quote" I am simply saying How tired I am of hearing you go on about EVERYTHING.....I think "talk is cheap" is the smallest reply I have ever see you post......congrats!!!!!!

And nope never said I could do any of those other big man things as well as you can BillyG"Man" - but I bet I can do a lot of things better that any woman will ever want to do to you :rofl:

and thanks Heavy351...looks like I'm not the only one tired of the :blah: Cheers!! :beer:

[rayjay]

Somebody please get pictures of the above. :argue:

[Bluerauder]

Hey :cowboy:'s

I am a chick and I have driven the Marauder in the 6+ inches of snow - uphill from a stop, on factory tires, in Nebraska "...snip..." I agree with my husband if you can drive in the snow you can drive in the snow.....some are more talented I guess :baaa:
Welcome (back) to the MM.Net, Mikey's Girl !! :welcome: I spent 3 nights in Omaha in Jan 1975 enroute to CO for skiing ... Nebraska does get some serious snows & white outs ....36" that night. Offutt closed as was Epley. Getting out was NOT easy.

I agree that you have to be comfortable driving in the snow ... unfortunately, there are far too many folks that ought to be banned from the roads when the first flake appears. :D Good luck on your hill challenge .... I think you get the prize (maybe a George Forman grill) for the most heated debate in 3 posts or less. :argue:

[CRUZTAKER]

She's funny....:P

[TechHeavy]

Welcome (back) to the MM.Net, Mikey's Girl !! :welcome: I spent 3 nights in Omaha in Jan 1975 enroute to CO for skiing ... Nebraska does get some serious snows & white outs ....36" that night. Offutt closed as was Epley. Getting out was NOT easy.

I agree that you have to be comfortable driving in the snow ... unfortunately, there are far too many folks that ought to be banned from the roads when the first flake appears. :D Good luck on your hill challenge .... I think you get the prize (maybe a George Forman grill) for the most heated debate in 3 posts or less. :argue:
Is Mikey's Girl supercharged? I'm placing bets here in West MI and need proper info for the odds. Go BillyGman! :)

[BillyGman]

[QUOTE=Mikey's Girl]Well dear I have only one problem with that, I will take your challange minus the tire bet, only for bragging rights...as long as there is snow on the road, and tissue for you to cry in when we are doneTranslation: you're backpedaling on your over confidence about your Marauder in snow w/out the snowtires, so you are afraid of losing $$ because of your quick keyboard bragging. Nope, if you don't have the confidence in what you originally stated, then forget it ...I will not give you my phone # cause I don't want to hear anymore hot air from you until I have to Don't flatter yourself pro snow driver, I don't look forward to talking to you since I'm likely going to have to hear your bragging over the phone. Which ofcourse will all come to an end IF you ever do call me and take this challenge. - I have your # so I will call you ....does that satisify you? and your needs? I have no needs in this thread. You're the one who began your "I can drive better than you can, and I'm a chick" attitude. So you start talking junk and then you want to turn it around like you're the innocent party. I don't care if you call me or not, but if you don't then don't expect to go unchallenged again in the future once you start talking junk about how much better you can drive than somebody else can. Your husband was mature enough to admit that he DID get stuck w/his Marauder once. Perhaps you didn't know that. That's funny because I never got stuck w/mine. But that's fine w/me, because wait till you see this hill I'm talking about. Just bring your $$$.

P.S. I don't bluff either , so please remember the use of traction control would be considered cheating....... My car doesn't have traction control, and I wouldn't want it. That's why I bought a 300A.

I am simply saying How tired I am of hearing you go on about EVERYTHING.....I think "talk is cheap" is the smallest reply I have ever see you post......congrats!!!!!! Okay MOM, but nobody ever told you that you have to read my posts or anyone else's either. But yet apparently by your own admission you still do. So then why complain? And apparently you haven't contributed anything better to this board this year yourself since that bragging post of yours about how much better you can drive was your first post this year according to your profile. BTW, your comments didn't really merit much more of a reply than that"Talk is cheap" one.

And nope never said I could do any of those other big man things as well as you can BillyG"Man" - but I bet I can do a lot of things better that any woman will ever want to do to you Please, I don't want to hear anymore about your fantasies, okay?. ...........but I'll accept your call in December concerning you putting your $$ where your keyboard is. Just make sure your husband is also there to be your witness, and I'll have my own witness as well. So three requirements here....your car, your witness, and your $$$$ cuz I could use some more Nitto drag radials on the back. :baaa:

[427435]

Gee all this excitiment :banana: !!!! Now that the election is over, this board needs something else to argue over. I almost (remember, I said almost) can't wait for it to snow here in Minnesota!

I am someone who actually has driven a real big block, rear drive car in the snow-------the '67 vette (with all 427 ci and 435 hp) was my primary driver from 1967 to 1972 and I never got stuck with it. And that was in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

So, although winter tires would certainly be better, I am going to try the stock tires (and 300 lbs of ballast in the trunk).

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow :) :) :) :) .

[BillyGman]

Gee all this excitiment :banana: !!!! Now that the election is over, this board needs something else to argue over. I almost (remember, I said almost) can't wait for it to snow here in Minnesota!

I am someone who actually has driven a real big block, rear drive car in the snow-------the '67 vette (with all 427 ci and 435 hp) was my primary driver from 1967 to 1972 and I never got stuck with it. And that was in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

So, although winter tires would certainly be better, I am going to try the stock tires (and 300 lbs of ballast in the trunk).

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow :) :) :) :) .Wow!! You drove an old Vette in the snow? Now I know that was challenging. I drove my 73 Vette in the snow once, and I didn't get stuck, but it was no picnic either. My Camaro wasn't very good in the snow either, although I remember driving it with standard tires.I didn't get stuck w/that car either, but it just was a real hassle to get around in deep snow w/it. I also drove my 85 Mazda RX-7 through the blizzard of 96 that we had over here, and I was amazed at how much better in the snow that car was than my Vette and my Camaro were. But it was also better than the Marauder in the snow when it didn't have snowtires.

[MSR7878]

My money is on Mikey's Girl (i'm Mikey afterall) And to answer someone's question, no she is not supercharged.

Just Because she won't bet $$$ doesn't mean she's backpedalling, She is willing to drive up that hill, on OEM tires in MY 2003 MM 300A, and I know she will make it. Betting $$$ is bullyish, betting on bragging rights is gentlemanly, (or gentlewomanly).

If someone won't show up just because there is no money in it, that is like conceding, isn't it?


P.S. not only can she drive, she's Gorgeous too!! (I Love You Honey!) :coolman:

[Mikey's Girl]

BillyG"Man" wrote....
you're backpedaling on your over confidence about your Marauder in snow w/out the snowtires, so you are afraid of losing $$ because of your quick keyboard bragging. Nope, if you don't have the confidence in what you originally stated, then forget it ...

So what you're saying is if everything isn't exactly on your terms than you just won't do it???? Just what I expected from a old peice of meat as yourself....your scared.... :cry: :baby:

So before the tires even hit the snow I claim VICTORY over this over inflated windbag :cheer:

I suspect this isn't the last I heard from this "boy", but let's face it HE backed down.... :flamer:

P.S. Thanks Bluerauder & Cruztaker :wave:

[Mikey's Girl]

Ahhh that's why I married that man Thanks MSR7878:lovies2:

[Bluerauder]

If someone won't show up just because there is no money in it, that is like conceding, isn't it? :coolman:
Does this mean the hill challenge is off?? :confused: I was envisioning a recreation of the famous original Pike's Peak Hill Climb with Parnelli Jones giving tips to the competitors. :D

[Go Mifuni]

How does the MM perform in the snow?

I realize it is real wheel drive but I was hoping it might be ok except in heavy snow.

If not, any recommendations on tire choices for bad weather?

:hide: :wflag: I'm almost afraid to post a reply to this thread for fear of being dragged into the brewhaha.
On a more serious note: Last winter I put on the black steel wheels with P215/65/R16's on the front and P225/70/R16's on the rear. Coupled with the Rubbermaid tote containing three 60# bags of sand in the trunk. I had NO Issues. None. Zero. Zip. Nadda.
My MM was better in the snow than my wife's X5!
My wife had concerns about me driving a right wheel drive car in the snow. My response was "Hey, Cops catch bad guys in these things. Surely it can handle the commute to and from work. Plus, I grew up driving these things and have had many "Controlled Slide Recovery Training Sessions" in empty, snowwy parking lots."
You all know what I'm talking about. :D
Two of the things I do to get me through the New England winter driving "adventure" is starting off in second gear, and if you feel yourself sliding down a hill, pop it into neutral.
That and a nice single malt when you get home. :beer:
OK, I'm clear. You may resume the :tantrum:

[BillyGman]

So what you're saying is if everything isn't exactly on your terms than you just won't do it???? Just what I expected from a old peice of meat as yourself....your scared.... :cry: :baby: Yeah, that's some real advanced psychology you're using there. Why don't you just say something about my mother while you're at it? The hill climb was my idea to give you an opportunity to prove your driving superiority theory since you were the one bragging in this thread,not me. So yes, it would have to be on my terms since I was the one who came up w/the idea. And you obviously are the one scared since you've resorted to name calling to cover-up. You're all about provocation like most people who brag.

So before the tires even hit the snow I claim VICTORY over this over inflated windbag :cheer:

I suspect this isn't the last I heard from this "boy", but let's face it HE backed down.... :flamer:

P.S. Thanks Bluerauder & Cruztaker :wave:
Again w/all the reverse psychology.... Save that for your kids. I have better things to do then to meet you who I don't even care to meet simply to show you that your car will get stuck again just like your husband got stuck w/it in the snow because of the lack of snowtires. I'm sure that you have better things to do also. But I will be there if you make it worth my while. Which is why I came up w/the idea to the hillclimb in the first place. You and your hubby go to the casino from time to time and gamble your $$ but now you decline to risk any of that same $$ on your driving skills that you were so quick to brag about and knock me and others suggesting that we don't know how to drive in the snow while you've never even met some of us.

If you aren't willing to put your $$ where your keyboard is, then I suggest you think twice about bragging about your so-called superiority in the future. You originally suggested that one of us give you a call for driving lessons or the like, but you didn't supply any one of us in the thread w/your telephone # like I've given my # to you. And then you have the nerve to claim that you don't bluff. :rolleyes: Judging by your track record here in this thread, I'm sure that if you couldn't make it up that hill, you would never admoit it to anyone here on the board anyway. You're all about bragging. If you were as confident as you try to appear to others as being, then you wouldn't need to brag so much and be so quick to attempt to knock others by resorting to name calling. I guess some people have an inferiority complex and the only thing that makes them feel better is to knock others by name calling.

[Heavy351]

Kramer, I hope you got something useful out of this thread, at this point it's off the rails and in the ditch....

My opinions stated earlier regarding driving in the snow are only that, opinions. Not too many facts being debated in this thread....

Also, like all opinions they are personal. That is why you cannot have my opinion anymore than I can have yours.

Of course you can "share" my opinion. or you can have one of your very own!

Why people feel the need to challenge and disprove a personal opinion with another personal opinion, I will never understand.

....cue the music ......

We can’t play this game anymore
But can we still be friends
Things just can’t go on like before
But can we still be friends
We had something to learn
Now it’s time for the wheel to turn
Grains of sand, one by one
Before you know it, all gone

Let’s admit we made a mistake
But can we still be friends
Heartbreak’s never easy to take
But can we still be friends
It’s a strange, sad affair
Sometimes seems like we just don’t care
Don’t waste time feeling hurt
We’ve been through hell together

Can we still get together sometime
You know life will still go on and on and on

We awoke from our dream
Things are not always what they seem
Memories linger on
It’s like a sweet, sad old song



:bigcry: :alone:

[427435]

Wow!! You drove an old Vette in the snow? Now I know that was challenging. I drove my 73 Vette in the snow once, and I didn't get stuck, but it was no picnic either. My Camaro wasn't very good in the snow either, although I remember driving it with standard tires.I didn't get stuck w/that car either, but it just was a real hassle to get around in deep snow w/it. I also drove my 85 Mazda RX-7 through the blizzard of 96 that we had over here, and I was amazed at how much better in the snow that car was than my Vette and my Camaro were. But it was also better than the Marauder in the snow when it didn't have snowtires.


You do need to remember that in those days, everyone had rear drive cars. There also really weren't any 4 x 4's (OK, maybe a few Jeeps, but they were used to plow lots, not commute in). The other rear drive cars had a lot higher percentage of their weight on their front tires then the Vette and few of them had posi. Combine that, with very careful use of the throttle, and I got along far better than the average car on the road. I did have snow tires but they weren't radials.

Golly, I'm getting old!!!!

[rayjay]

Reference the hill climb challenge, there are a few variables here that have been left out. One is type the of snow to be driven in, the second is the air temperature and a third could be the previous amount of salt/sand present on the road prior to the snowfall. All effect traction. Speaking from 33 yrs experience driving in snowbelt/hill country, both rear wheel and front wheel drive, snow tires and no snow tires, behind the wheel 8+ hrs a night over hill and dale on unplowed roads, ect, ect, ect... Snow tires are the way to go, PERIOD, if you have to drive where it snows often. Its also a safety issue. I'm quite sure I could drive my 04 MM without snows all winter if I did it only after the roads have been cleared. I don't have that luxury and the piece of mind that "winter only" tires bring was well worth the cost. Every year, everyone has to relearn how to drive once it starts snowing. The #1 cause of MVA's in the winter is: speed not reasonable or prudent for conditions. We've already had our 1st weather related fatal of the season here. I've compared the tread design on the MM BFG's to other "all season" tires in my garage. They absolutely are not designed to be driven in "real" snow. The traction bars on the shoulders are far too wide, they just are not designed for real winter driving. And thats my :twocents: , sorry for the rant. I just don't want to see anyone here get hurt.

[BillyGman]

Kramer, I hope you got something useful out of this thread, at this point it's off the rails and in the ditch....

My opinions stated earlier regarding driving in the snow are only that, opinions. Not too many facts being debated in this thread....

Also, like all opinions they are personal. That is why you cannot have my opinion anymore than I can have yours.

Of course you can "share" my opinion. or you can have one of your very own!

Why people feel the need to challenge and disprove a personal opinion with another personal opinion, I will never understand.

....cue the music ......

We can’t play this game anymore
But can we still be friends
Things just can’t go on like before
But can we still be friends
We had something to learn
Now it’s time for the wheel to turn
Grains of sand, one by one
Before you know it, all gone

Let’s admit we made a mistake
But can we still be friends
Heartbreak’s never easy to take
But can we still be friends
It’s a strange, sad affair
Sometimes seems like we just don’t care
Don’t waste time feeling hurt
We’ve been through hell together

Can we still get together sometime
You know life will still go on and on and on

We awoke from our dream
Things are not always what they seem
Memories linger on
It’s like a sweet, sad old song



:bigcry: :alone:Yes, I agree w/you, and you're correct. I also admit that I took part in the squabble between myself, and "Mikey's Girl" and I'm just going to let it go. It isn't worth it anyway. She seemed like she came out swinging in this thread, but I also admit that maybe I took her first post too seriously, and then when I reacted, things just escalated from there. So it's time to just let it go. Maybe her and I can bury the hatchet some day soon, and just laugh all of this off. And that way even if we did ever get an opportunity to check that hill out, it would be on friendly terms rather than on terms of some childish squabble over the internet. Thanks for your correction. :up:

[rayjay]

Hey billygman, I see you got some snow. Missed us completely :P , althougt its a hot 14 degrees outside.

[BillyGman]

Hey billygman, I see you got some snow. Missed us completely :P , althougt its a hot 14 degrees outside.Yeah Ray. Not only did we get some snow, but I had to drive home at midnight in it w/Drag radial tires on my Marauder!!! Not too fun. Especially driving down big hills. But since it was only a dusting it wasn't too bad as long as I went super slow. I'm just glad it was very late so there wasn't any traffic out on the road. But I'll have to get the Drag radials off the car soon.

[rayjay]

Yeah Ray. Not only did we get some snow, but I had to drive hime at midnight in it w/Drag radial tires on my Marauder!!! Not too fun. Especially driving down big hills. But since it was only a dusting it wasn't too bad as long as I went super slow. I'm just glad it was very late so there wasn't any traffic out on the road. But I'll have to get the Drag radials off the car soon.
Drag radials in snow, that must have been an interesting riding home! You gotta watch the weather. 1st mention of the "S" word and I had my snows on. If I wreck my MM, I'll never live it down at home. I've been torturing my wife non stop about her deer population control efforts. :argue:

[Haggis]

How does the MM perform in the snow?

I realize it is real wheel drive but I was hoping it might be ok except in heavy snow.

If not, any recommendations on tire choices for bad weather?


Kramer, living in the greater D.C. area myself and having to comute to Silver Spring, Md. (41miles one way) on a daily basis to go to work, I would never drive my Marauder in the snow no matter the tires on it. It is not my driving ability I question, it is the other idiots on the road I am scared of and I don't want to risk my Marauder. My suggestion would be to find an affordable vehicle to risk in bad weather.

To Mikey's Girl and BillyGMan I do have one request. If this challenge does take place please get it on video so everyone here will know, who was right and who was wrong. Then again does it really matter. :hmmm:




That and a nice single malt when you get home. :beer:

I like the way this man thinks. :drink: :up:

[Bluerauder]

It is not my driving ability I question, it is the other idiots on the road I am scared of and I don't want to risk my Marauder.
And that is the plain truth. Last winter, I had an SUV go sideways behind me while coming up to a stop sign. Fortunately, I was able to pull forward and through the intersection before my entire MM rear end was reworked. If you are planning to be out in the snow and slippery stuff .... keep your 360 degree sensors up and running. :D Danger can come from any direction... at any time regardless of how well you can handle your vehicle. ;)

[rayjay]

And that is the plain truth. Last winter, I had an SUV go sideways behind me while coming up to a stop sign. Fortunately, I was able to pull forward and through the intersection before my entire MM rear end was reworked. If you are planning to be out in the snow and slippery stuff .... keep your 360 degree sensors up and running. :D Danger can come from any direction... at any time regardless of how well you can handle your vehicle. ;)
Plain truth is driving lessons should be mandatory for anyone who buys a SUV. Its not car and doesn't handle like car. Better traction in 4WD does not equate to superior braking. Alas, many find out the hard way...

[MSR7878]

Friday night I got to drive in the first snow of the season, there wasn't lots of snow, but plenty of idiots, both kinds-the ones that drive 25mph on the highway and the ones who still drive 70mph. the MM drove fine, and predictably on brand new BFG's. (OEM) To the guy who started this thread: IMHO the MM on OEM tires isn't any better or worse than any comparably equipped car. Many of us started driving in big rear wheel drive cars and can, if we have to, drive them in snow (my first car was a 1976 Lincoln Continental with a 460) My MM is the best snow car I have owned (out of 9 cars: Mazda MX6, Merc Topaz, The Lincoln, and a Mitsu Mirage, etc.)

[Bradley G]

Warning !!! Your Results May Vary!!;)
Friday night I got to drive in the first snow of the season, there wasn't lots of snow, but plenty of idiots, both kinds-the ones that drive 25mph on the highway and the ones who still drive 70mph. the MM drove fine, and predictably on brand new BFG's. (OEM) To the guy who started this thread: IMHO the MM on OEM tires isn't any better or worse than any comparably equipped car. Many of us started driving in big rear wheel drive cars and can, if we have to, drive them in snow (my first car was a 1976 Lincoln Continental with a 460) My MM is the best snow car I have owned (out of 9 cars: Mazda MX6, Merc Topaz, The Lincoln, and a Mitsu Mirage, etc.)

[rayjay]

I think you'll find as the temperature goes down, the BFGs will have less adhesion. The compound just isn't right for areas that are cold with heavy snowfall.

[Mikey's Girl]

There goes my outside fun for the winter....oh well looks like I'll have to think up some new challanges with MSR7878 instead :thinker: ...I did marry a man ten years younger than me for a reason :censor:

[GarageMahal]

I think you'll find as the temperature goes down, the BFGs will have less adhesion. The compound just isn't right for areas that are cold with heavy snowfall.

That's my experience exactly... The first couple of months of snow were fine, but when the deep freeze hit in January my experience went down hill fast. I got some snow tires and the MM became the best winter handling car I have ever owned.

jta :twocents:

[BillyGman]

There goes my outside fun for the winter....oh well looks like I'll have to think up some new challanges with MSR7878 instead :thinker: ...I did marry a man ten years younger than me for a reason :censor:
You're still welcome to call me, but only IF it would really have to do with a competition that's a friendly one. The one that errupted between you and I wasn't really all that friendly, and was laced with a lot of harsh words. Words that I wouldn't consider good enough for starting any kind of friendship. Therefore, I didn't see any good that could come of it. And that's why I was sticking to the competition being based on $$ alone since I didn't see it as being genuinely friendly at all. Couple that with the fact that they usually take pretty good care of that hill when it snows, and therefore the snowstorm in question would have to take place late at night, and we would have to hit that hill before the plows took care of it the next morning to either prove my point or yours.

So for us to go to such extremes just for a competion that wouldn't even be a friendly one at that, would be kind of unrealistic, and worth next to nothing. And I thought about that after all the mudslinging had taken place. I hope you can both relate to, and understand my explanation on this. If you can't, then I'm afraid there's nothing more that I can say or do about that. Peace.......

[SergntMac]

There goes my outside fun for the winter....oh well looks like I'll have to think up some new challanges with MSR7878 instead
You mean the hill climb is off? Oh, poo! I haven't laughed this hard here in a while. Thanks, and you go girl! Please come hang with us more often, I like your style.

My MM snow experience is stale, I only tried it a few times in the winter of '02. Once I got around the severe pitch of my driveway going out, I had to negotiate the city's speed bumps in my alley.

I pulled up to the speed bump and stopped against it, and then tried to drive over it. A fresh layer of snow less that two inches allowed me to get out and walk around my MM while it "cruised" at 3 MPH. Back in the garage she went, but not until I shoveled the entire drive and salted. There she stayed, until the streets were completely clear. The MM was N/A, with 4:10s back then.

I learned a few things...Front tires almost 9" wide are more plows than tires in anything over 2" of snow. Likewise wide tires in the rear need much deeper and wider tread, or they become snowballs when the packing is good. Without the traction in the rear to overcome the resistance in the front, you get stuck and it doesn't take snow a foot deep either.

"Snow tires in front" doesn't add up for me. Wider, deeper treads will still snowball when the packing is good, and you end up with plows again. However, if "snow tires in front" mean a skinnier tire, get the skinniest you can. Likewise the rear, it's not tire mass that steers or pushes, but tire tread and ability to cut through the resistance. It's a lot easier to slice bread with a knife than a hammer...

The BFG we get OEM are called "all season," and all that means to me is that they are capable and useful in 75-80% of the weather this car may be found in. The remaining 20-25% is all driver's skill. In 28 years of driving police cars in Chicago winters, I cannot recall getting stuck more than a dozen times. Buy stuck, I mean needing assistance to get going again, and most of these times, it was a matter of snow plowing up underneath the car and lifting it off what traction was available. Side streets in Chicago are the last to get cleared, and more often than not, the "rut" rate is the real problem, not the depth or good packing. BTW, the CPD does not install snow tires of any kind for winter, so much for conventional wisdom, eh?

The collision factor mentioned above is a factor for me too, but I understand some here don't have a choice. Best wishes to you, and if you're considering snow tires, skinny and tall should be one of your factors. The best solution I've seen was by our friend WAGS, police steelys and skinny, tall tires all around. If I HAD to use my MM, I'd check this out. It was the tire package from our first winter here, 2002.

[Mikey's Girl]

Thanks SergntMac...it was fun getting the BillyG"Boy" going......he likes to talk A LOT so I thought I would at least have some amusement for a while, glad we could give you a laugh at the same time...good luck to you this winter ...have fun, but safe fun!! :high5:

[CRUZTAKER]

Well....I had a dream last night. First night attempting to sleep without medication because my stomach just can't handle another percodan! I figured I would sleep normal again, you know, no silly dreams, no raking leaves all night long...etc. etc.

Anyway, I still had a dream.

The setting was at the base of a large hill. It had snowed considerably, and mobility appeared difficult. I had never been to this hill, so the surroundings were unfamiliar to me. As were the people. I have never met you MG (Mikey's girl), but I have spoken with, and seen pictures of Billy-G. Oddly enough, you, MG, were a stick figure! Baffling....but no disparage to you what so ever. Billy was this mid sized, heavy, muscular mad man with an evil look in his face and heavy New York accent. Again, odd.....:confused:

Anyway, we all proceded to tackle this hill. Apparently I came uninvited, but cheated and brought my studded tires. I tackled the hill first to show you two exactly how it was done.:P I went up fast and furious, rooster tails of snow were flung far and wide. Then MG started up the hill. Slowly she crept up the hill....5 feet....10 feet....15 feet....and then....spinning to a stop. No more progress. Billy is standing beside her car taunting and laughing. Dishing out the 'I told you so's' and what-nots. MG is yelling back something to the extent of 'Don't make me get out of this car and kick your ass'.

All the while, I am going up...then down...and up....and then back down this snowy hill. At one point I come to a dead stop in the middle of the hill, and holler back to the two of them, "watch this", as I start and stop midway on the hill. All the while MG and Billy hash it out at the base of the hill, oblivious to my handling of the situation at hand.

Unfortunately I woke up before Billy made his run, therefore I must concentrate hard tonight before I bed down, to make sure I attend 'round-II' of the Billy vs MG snowy hill facade!:D

[rayjay]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :poke: sure you are not still taking the percodan???

[Badger]

I had a dream that it snowed in the DC area, and that this Badger didn't have to go to work...on account that most of the DC workers are such poor snow drivers that they close the GVMT down.

My dream may still come true. At least one day per year! :D
This will be my wifeys first year driving my 98CV. I managed to get through a lot of snow with that beast and standard RS-A tires.

B for Badger

[Mikey's Girl]

:hmmm: Interesting dream ... :rofl: I do have to admit to loving parts of your dream :bop: Please tell me who wins of course besides you :bows: :nworthy:...and maybe you should lay off those perks.....I don't think I would want to have a middle aged, heavy, enraged man in my dreams...sounds scary :eek:

[Haggis]

I had a dream that it snowed in the DC area, and that this Badger didn't have to go to work...on account that most of the DC workers are such poor snow drivers that they close the GVMT down.

My dream may still come true. At least one day per year! :D
This will be my wifeys first year driving my 98CV. I managed to get through a lot of snow with that beast and standard RS-A tires.

B for Badger

Yea sure is nice ;) , unless of course your essential personnel, :bigcry: , then you have to go in no matter what. :mad2:

[BillyGman]

Thanks SergntMac...it was fun getting the BillyG"Boy" going......he likes to talk A LOT so I thought I would at least have some amusement for a while, glad we could give you a laugh at the same time...good luck to you this winter ...have fun, but safe fun!! :high5::blah: :blah: :whistle: :whistle: ..................

[CRUZTAKER]

No dream last night...must be a weekly show....:P

Tune in next week,...... for the rest of the story.