Marauder 400HP

[Silver03MM]

Not to sound picky or anything I love my MM but I think it should have been made with 400 hp. The reason I feel this way is because of SUV's they roll like crazy no one drags them and Porsche still manages to make one with 450 hp. Yes, it is a Porsche but so what why can't a Marauder that probably weights more, have 400 hp? It really is upsetting. I mean maybe because I love muscle cars and I also believe in "more power". Make the car a few grand more it would still be worth it.

[Tallboy]

problem solved with one phone call to trilogy motorsports.

[Joe Walsh]

Not to sound picky or anything I love my MM but I think it should have been made with 400 hp. The reason I feel this way is because of SUV's they roll like crazy no one drags them and Porsche still manages to make one with 450 hp. Yes, it is a Porsche but so what why can't a Marauder that probably weights more, have 400 hp? It really is upsetting. I mean maybe because I love muscle cars and I also believe in "more power". Make the car a few grand more it would still be worth it.

There is a 400 HP MM....just order the Trilogy (THRILL-O-GEE!) Option! ;)

Darn 'tallboy' you are quick on that keypad!!

[CRUZTAKER]

You are correct....400 hp, even at the crank* would have been much ore suitable.

I haven't quite achieved that yet N/A, but I'm close*, and I like it....ALOT!

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

problem solved with one phone call to trilogy motorsports.
:up: :banana2: :burn:

[RoyLPita]

What Tallboy said. Trilogy and nothing else.

[04MEMA]

Yep, It should have come from the factory with the Cobra motor, and an optional 6 speed manual. No rebates, everybody pays sticker price, car stays in production for many years and comes much closer or surpasses sales expectations.

But the reality is the car is a bargain with all the discounts, and is quite awesome from the factory. And as it has been said, get the Trilogy, and all your thirst for monster power will be quenched in one mod. That is of course if you don't develop a minor ticking sound before you take delivery of your Trilogy s/c and then spend weeks trying to figure out what that stupid sound is. And you continue to seek the answer after 3 dealers tell you there's nothing wrong, but they don't know what's making that ticking sound and you can't install your blower until this friggin issue is resolved! :mad2: I'm not bitter though,really....

Jeff :burnout:

[BillyGman]

You'll easily have 450 HP at the crankshaft w/the Trilogy Supercharger kit. It's 400 HP at the wheels that many guys are acheiving with it. BTW, Jeff, I've heard people who've owned late 90's Cobras claim that they had the ticking noise in their 4.6L engine Cobra cars, and drove them up to 100K miles w/out any problems. I've also had the ticking sound for atleast 18K miles on my Marauder, and it's fine despite how hard I drive it. And I've had the S/Cer in now for the last 8,000 miles. More thsn one mechanic has told me that it's the fuel injectors that make the ticking noise. I dunno. I cannot confirm that. All I can say is that it's a common occurence, and the majority of people that I've communicated with who've had that occurence w/the Ford 4.6L engine have claimed that they drove the car as is, and never had an engine problem despite that ticking noise.

[Patrick]

S/C!!!!!!!!!!!! :high5: :high5:

[ADE 1000]

Not to sound picky or anything I love my MM but I think it should have been made with 400 hp. The reason I feel this way is because of SUV's they roll like crazy no one drags them and Porsche still manages to make one with 450 hp. Yes, it is a Porsche but so what why can't a Marauder that probably weights more, have 400 hp? It really is upsetting. I mean maybe because I love muscle cars and I also believe in "more power". Make the car a few grand more it would still be worth it.

The Porsche SUV you are referring to, the Cayenne Turbo, costs about $90K and weighs over 5000lbs. Probably not a good comparison, but you do have a point. The Marauder should have come with a factory supercharger no doubt. I would have preferred a supercharged 2v 4.6L over the current motor.

However, as others have said there are plenty of great aftermarket options anyone can take advantage of using the money we saved due to the sizable discounts on the MM.

[sailsmen]

The Porshe you are talking about costs $90,000!

I have raced one at the track a dozen times and beat him 9 or 10 of that dozen. :D

[mrjones]

[QUOTE=Silver03MM]Not to sound picky or anything I love my MM but I think it should have been made with 400 hp. QUOTE]

More is always better, but I'm not unhappy with the way my stock MM runs up top with the 300hp. It's down low where the problem is. I think the new 3 valve 5.4 truck engine would've made a good match for the Marauder. Still 300hp, but much more torque, AND much lower in the rpm range. Plus, it's got to be a less expensive engine just due to less complexity and economy of scale. Many more 5.4 truck engines made than 4v 4.6's.

[RoyLPita]

[QUOTE=Silver03MM]Not to sound picky or anything I love my MM but I think it should have been made with 400 hp. QUOTE]

More is always better, but I'm not unhappy with the way my stock MM runs up top with the 300hp. It's down low where the problem is. I think the new 3 valve 5.4 truck engine would've made a good match for the Marauder. Still 300hp, but much more torque, AND much lower in the rpm range. Plus, it's got to be a less expensive engine just due to less complexity and economy of scale. Many more 5.4 truck engines made than 4v 4.6's.


And the 5.4 truck engine runs on regular fuel.

[wesman]

Riddle me this. When is the last time you guys bought a car with 28.5 inch tall tires on the back? That is absolutely massive. If it came with 26 inch tall tires it would be much more of a rubber burner, from the factory. When I put on 24.6 inch tall tires for autoX it spins the tires at will.

[JohnE]

Well, this is America and you have choices. Ford offered what they thought they could make money on, which is all they care about. Fortunately people have stepped up and offered improvement options. Immediately Kenny Brown, then Reinhart, then Trilogy and others have kits to fix your need for power.

There are even twin turbo Marauders out on the street. The Kenne Bell Cobra kit could be made to work and others which support far more than 400 RWHP.


One of the original Marauder concepts was a 4.6 SOHC non-intercooled roots.


If there is a demand, someone will step up and offer a product. Ford did make money on the Marauder, but could have been much more successful.


John

[QWK SVT]

Riddle me this. When is the last time you guys bought a car with 28.5 inch tall tires on the back? That is absolutely massive. If it came with 26 inch tall tires it would be much more of a rubber burner, from the factory. When I put on 24.6 inch tall tires for autoX it spins the tires at will.
295-45-18 is the stock tire size for the Lightning (which, BTW, is why Nitto made the tires so many MM's are strapping). I can't think of any CAR that uses such a tall tire...

In shortening the tire, you've also changed the effective rear gear to something around 4.65, since you have 4.10's - Sticky tires, or not, I'd guess you wouldn't have too much trouble turning them over! :burnout:

[BillyGman]

There are even twin turbo Marauders out on the street.Oh really? This is news to me. The only one that I've heard about blew the engine shortly after the Turbos were installed. The Kenne Bell Cobra kit could be made to work Sure, it "can" be made to work, but not w/out a lot of extra work which will include fabrication and design required by the installer.


One of the original Marauder concepts was a 4.6 SOHC non-intercooled roots.True, but outdated, and obsolete.


.............................. ..

[rayjay]

Riddle me this. When is the last time you guys bought a car with 28.5 inch tall tires on the back? That is absolutely massive. If it came with 26 inch tall tires it would be much more of a rubber burner, from the factory. When I put on 24.6 inch tall tires for autoX it spins the tires at will.
wesman is right. I'm going to have to do a lot of 2nd gear starts with the snows on this winter. It doesn't take much throttle to break them loose.

[NAVCHAP]

The Vortech kit Dennis installed on my MM is way over 400rwhp even on a weight bearing dyno, it breaks traction with ease, and goes to the speed limit on any road before you know you're there. Having driven a Trilogy car at Indy I know it will give you more power than you need as well. Good luck, and remember, once you start doing upgrades, it never stops. Even after all the mods on my MM, I'm still looking at more! -kjs-

[BillyGman]

The Vortech kit Dennis installed on my MM is way over 400rwhp even on a weight bearing dyno, it breaks traction with ease, and goes to the speed limit on any road before you know you're there. Having driven a Trilogy car at Indy I know it will give you more power than you need as well. Good luck, and remember, once you start doing upgrades, it never stops. Even after all the mods on my MM, I'm still looking at more! -kjs-
Not me. I'm not looking for anymore modifications on my Marauder. I'm quite satisfied, and have been since back in April when I installed the Trilogy S/Cer kit. :) Running two consecutive 12.2 quartermile times in 70 degree whether w/a 4,200 LB car is good enough for me. Why wouldn't it be? I'm in Dodge Viper territory w/a car that weighs close to 1,000 LBS more than a Viper does.

[NAVCHAP]

BG: I'm never totally satisfied, glad you are. I'm looking at more handling parts and several other things, that's why I had so much fun with this car. PM me for details, so I don't derail the thread. -kjs-

[maraudernkc]

Call Trilogy and have get ready to shell out $6000.00.




Not to sound picky or anything I love my MM but I think it should have been made with 400 hp. The reason I feel this way is because of SUV's they roll like crazy no one drags them and Porsche still manages to make one with 450 hp. Yes, it is a Porsche but so what why can't a Marauder that probably weights more, have 400 hp? It really is upsetting. I mean maybe because I love muscle cars and I also believe in "more power". Make the car a few grand more it would still be worth it.

[maraudernkc]

Did they figure out what the ticking sound was?




Yep, It should have come from the factory with the Cobra motor, and an optional 6 speed manual. No rebates, everybody pays sticker price, car stays in production for many years and comes much closer or surpasses sales expectations.

But the reality is the car is a bargain with all the discounts, and is quite awesome from the factory. And as it has been said, get the Trilogy, and all your thirst for monster power will be quenched in one mod. That is of course if you don't develop a minor ticking sound before you take delivery of your Trilogy s/c and then spend weeks trying to figure out what that stupid sound is. And you continue to seek the answer after 3 dealers tell you there's nothing wrong, but they don't know what's making that ticking sound and you can't install your blower until this friggin issue is resolved! :mad2: I'm not bitter though,really....

Jeff :burnout:

[04MEMA]

Did they figure out what the ticking sound was?
No. They heard the sound, checked for codes and Technical Service bulletins, called the hotline and found no answers. Since this sound only occurs with part throttle around 3500 rpm under load there's no way to listen under the hood while it's happening without a chassis dyno. One dealer said they had another MM on their lot that exhibited the same sound. The literature I received back from the dealer said everything was normal. I'm still not convinced of this. Meanwhile my Trilogy S/C kit is sitting in the garage, screaming at me to install it. So I continue to seek the answer. I'll put a detailed post up when and if this gets concluded. I don't think this is the same ticking sound that others have, I haven't seen a description that fits mine. Search for "engine noise" to find my previously posted description of this issue.

Jeff

[BillyGman]

Jeff, how many miles are there on your Marauder, and how many miles were on it when you began to notice this noise?

[04MEMA]

Jeff, how many miles are there on your Marauder, and how many miles were on it when you began to notice this noise?

Thanks for the interest. The car had about 2,000 when the noise appeared, now it has about 3,500.

We've discussed this previously - here's the link: :hijack:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13205&highlight=engine+noise


Thanks,
Jeff

[BillyGman]

I apologize Jeff. I forgot all about that thread. I wish I had something concrete to tell you as to what you should do, or what exactly that sound is, but I really don't. If you had mechanics fron two different dealers as well as Lidio check this out, and none of them can figure it out, then I'm at a loss of words when it comes to a possible solution. In that other thread I had stated that by your description it sounded like the engine was pinging. but if all of the people you had listen to it didn't mention that it was pinging, then I doubt thst it can be.


Because if you had a chip, and the engine was pinging w/the chip plugged in, then I'd suggest that you remove the chip to see if the pionging goes away, or even use a tank full of 100 octane race gas to see if it goes away. And if it did, then I'd conclude that the ignition timing was incorrect. But if the noise didn't sound like pinging to Lidio, then I'm sure that it isn't pinging.

[04MEMA]

Yeah, aprreciate the feedback. At this point all Lidio has done is drive the car. He did not perform a formal diagnosis. I've been trying to get back over to his shop to have him listen to it on the dyno. The issue seems to be developing. I'm beginning to hear the rattling/ticking sound around 3,000 RPM now. Funny, but Lidio mentioned he heard it down around 3,000 RPM weeks ago, before I noticed it there. More affirmation of his abilities I suppose. But I was glad that many people have confirmed my assertion that this is not spark knock. So I'm either going to get the Merc to Lidio as soon as convenient or try to put some more miles on it to see if it gets worse and perhaps easier to diagnose. Either way, I continue to day dream frequently about how awsome the s/c will be. I've re-read some of the recent installation threads in the Trilogy forum about a dozen times! I can't wait! :burnout:


Jeff

[BillyGman]

Jeff, the following might be water under the bridge until you get the car on the dyno at Lidio's place, but for what it's worth, here's my best attempt to help you:


First let me say that every time you describe this noise as a being a "rattle", I can't help but to think it's detonation (ie. "spark knock", "pinging", "knocking" etc..) because the best way that I can describe knocking myself would be to say that it sounds like something rattling, or like a bag of marbles being poured on top of the pistons. Which is likely due to the pistons rocking violently in their bores (NOT good!!). I've been in vehicles before that exibited the rattling sound of detonation under load at part throttle only, and only in the midrange of the RPM scale like you've described. However, it's always engines that had many miles on them, so I cannot tell you that it IS infact knocking. Especially w/out even hearing it for myself on your car.

But I've just picked up the January issue of "GM HighTech Performance" magazine (yes, it's about General Motors cars) and on page #34 of that issue, there's a technical article about the Chevy Generation IV small block engine (more specifically, it's the 400 HP "LS2" engine that the 2005 Vette is equipped with). So what does a Chevy engine have to do w/your problem? Well, the reason I bring this up is due to the fact of what this article states on page #36. The following is a direct quote of what is written on that page directly underneath a picture of that engine's flat top piston and connecting rod......

"The pistons are connected to cast rods via full-floating wrist pins. This was done to reduce the piston slap often heard in LS1 engines. Though not proven to be detrimental to the engine, the slap noise nonetheless caused customer complaints."

And here's another quote taken from page #35 of that same article....

"The LS2's pistons also have full-floating wrist pins that help reduce the piston slap noise that's common to Gen III [General Motors] engines. Interestingly some customers, particularly truck owners, have complained about piston slap, but there's no real evidence to indicate it causes premature engine wear---we know of a couple GEN III-powered GMC pickups at the GM proving Ground, outside Detroit, that each have more than 400,000 miles on their original Vortec engines."

So my point is that even though what you've described is very uncommon among Marauder engines to my knowledge, if the Camaro SS and Corvette owners as well as GM truck owners have had complaints of piston slap noise from their LS1 engines in their cars (which is the engine that this new "LS2" engine in the new Vette has replaced), and that the elimination of that noise required Chevy to use floating wrist pins, then perhaps it's possible that some other engines that have pressed-in wrist pins will have piston slap. And since most engines in factory production cars do NOT have floating wrist pins, then I doubt that the Marauder engine does. However, you might want to check into that. But if this noise that you're hearing isn't knocking, then perhaps it's piston slap, and if so, maybe it's also harmless as was determined for the Chevy LS1 engines, as well as other GM Gen III engines like the Vortec engines in GMC trucks that exibit the piston slap noise.

So in light of all this, I think what I would do is bring it to Lidio once more to get it on the dyno, mention to him this problem that the GMC truck Vortec engines have had w/piston slap due to having pressed-in wrist pins, and if Lidio cannot come up w/any definate diagnosis, I would just drive the car hard for a couple thousand more miles to see if something goes, or gets worse. If the noise gets a lot worse, then I'd go back to the dealer. But if it doesn't, I'd forget about it and slap that S/Cer on.

The only other thing I can think of to do which would be before the S/Cer installation is to have Lidio check the timing advance curve to make sure that it isn't wrong. Because if for some reason it's advancing too much, then that ofcourse will cause pinging. And in that case you can either point that out to the dealer,and demend that they correct it, or simply have Lidio burn a chip for your non-supercharged engine just so you can see if the noise goes away in order to rule out the possibility of knocking. Because if it did go away w/a change of the timing advance curve, then it obviously be pinging that's occuring. otherwise maybe it IS piston slap, and is harmless. Infact for all we know, if the noise isn't extremely loud, then maybe some of us otherMarauder owners who have Headers and louder mufflers also have the piston slap noise, but don't even hear it due to the louder exhaust note. I hope this information helps you in some way.

[04MEMA]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. It's funny that you brought up the GM piston slap. The mechanic who I described in my previous thread actually told me about how he owned an F body with piston slap. He didn't believe the dealer who told him it was normal until they took another f body off the lot for a ride and it made the same sound. However, this mechanic did not liken the MM's sound to piston slap, he just pointed out that it may be normal. With the GM situation there is a common noise and the cause is known. For me to have some peace of mind, I need to know the source of my MM's noise, then maybe I can install the s/c with confidence that it won't grenade. In any case, we're on the same page as to how to proceed from here. i just have to be patient, and not let the s/c have power over my will!

Thanks for your support! :)

Jeff

[Bradley G]

This piston slap issue was /is a common occurence W/ Jeeps in the straight 6 4.0 L not used anymore?except Wrangler ??. These engines were very dependebleand I've seen hunderds go 100,000+ the highest @275,000.This was the postmaster in Waukegan at the time.04MEMA I feel for you as I am dreaming /planning a S/C myself. your Patience is commendable I am not sure I could keep my :beatnik: .Keep us posted
Bradley G

[TripleTransAm]

For what it's worth, the piston slap on LS1s is predominantly an issue at idle or just above it, not at 3000-3500 RPM. I'd imagine a rocking piston at that speed might be more detrimental than what is claimed in that article. Also, most of the complaints on the aluminum engines centered on cold engines... once warmed up they became fairly quiet. I cannot comment on the iron truck engines.

Another possible source of noise on LS1s is valvetrain noise. The ratio for the rockers on the LS1s is something extreme like 1.73:1 compared to the 1.5:1 that was stock on all traditional previous small blocks and on the LT1, and consider that 1.65:1 was considered an upgrade on those. So a great deal of pressure is put on the pushrods, and when the engine is overrevved badly (like when mistakenly grabbing 1st instead of 3rd at WOT at redline), some pushrods can get slightly bent, resulting in a similar noise as piston slap. Also, the valve-springs are set up in accordance to the 1.73:1 ratio but are not able to properly handle an over-rev situation like what was described, sometimes causing a piston to smack a valve or two, also causing pushrod bending and in some limited cases valve face and/or stem damage. Likewise, a slap-like noise.

My own LS1 never exhibited any such noise until I just recently switched to a particular 0W30 oil that is reputed to have great wear characteristics. Now I get a slight clatter at idle until the engine just barely begins to warm up, whereas I never heard anything with the Mobil One 5W30 I used to use exclusively since brand new.

Jeff, I really hope you find a dealership willing to take your complaints seriously. It must be hard to keep getting turned away when you know something is not right (and I don't consider rattling at any engine RPM to be acceptable in a high-tech motor). Don't wait until the warranty runs out... in my case, I complained about a certain drivetrain noise on my WS6 early on but was told by several dealership 'mechanics' (word used loosely here) that it was normal for a RWD manual transmission F-body. Result: I'd have to shell out some $4k to get this corrected now, out of warranty, and GM refuses to acknowledge their goof. I can live with this, as I've lived with it for many years, but basically it just means I'm stuck with it. (yet another reason why GM can go shove a flaming hot pushrod up their collective rear ends for all I care...)

[BillyGman]

I complained about a certain drivetrain noise on my WS6 early on but was told by several dealership 'mechanics' (word used loosely here) that it was normal for a RWD manual transmission F-body. Result: I'd have to shell out some $4k to get this corrected now, out of warranty, and GM refuses to acknowledge their goof. I can live with this, as I've lived with it for many years, but basically it just means I'm stuck with it. Thanks for your input Steve. But in light of your statement above^ I guess that the noise you've dealt with and tried to correct although annoying to you, was apparently not detrimental to the engine of your WS6 since you've lived w/the noise for a long time now, and the engine still runs fine. And that was the point I was making about the piston slap noise that the magazine article was talking about. It shouldn't be there, but it isn't deterimantal to the life and durability of the engine. So perhaps the noise that Jeff is having on his Marauder while annoying and shouldn't be there, it might not be detrimental to the engine. I don't blame you nor Jeff for wanting to, and trying to get the dealer to fix it, but since Jeff has already tried twice and was told that it isn't a problem, then perhaps the noise isn't any reason to hold-off on his S/Cer installation. Especially if he takes the other steps I've previously suggested by getting it on Lidio's dyno to see if Lidio can uncover this, and he cannot diagnose it either.

But another thing that was interesting about your comments is that the different weight oil that you've tried was causing an engine noise. Perhaps that's relevent to Jeff's case. Jeff, what oil are you using in your Marauder???

[TripleTransAm]

In my case, the noise I was complaining about was not engine-related but rather an excessive (to me) amount of play in the entire drivetrain. I was told several times it was normal for this kind of car, but in reality I came to find that tolerances in my diff were on the loose side and that the noise was due to some machining problems on the spider gears. Tough to describe what I was seeing, but essentially the end result is that it somehow looks as though the spider gears weren't meant for each other, gear-cut-wise. So I'll just live with that noise, although I will be writing an angry letter to GM for this little present.

The piston slap, though... as I mentioned, the LS1 has a history of this problem at idle or around idle, and like you said this is probably not bad enough to cause engine longevity problems. However, it's the fact of his engine making that noise at 3000+ RPM that has me worried, as the piston speeds are much greater... in the case of the LS1, the piston kind of 'rocks' in its travel, due to piston skirt design issues and tolerances, and it would seem that at higher RPM the piston doesn't seem to show this tendency to rock and this is probably what saves it. Not to mention the fact that (in the case of my car) it goes away at the slightest hint of warmup, and I usually wait until things are warm before even thinking of approaching 2000 RPM (which comes up fast in a manual-tranny LS1).

Anyway, that's my rationale behind recommending finding a dealer that will dig deeper into finding the root cause of the problem... in this case, symptoms seem to differ between the 'harmless' LS1 piston slap and what's being described in this Marauder. I'd hate to see Jeff get stuck with a catastrophic failure some years after warranty expiration, and having them try to blame it on the supercharger even if the problem was originally documented prior to supercharger installation. Or, like you said, maybe everything will hold together and no serious problem will ever come of it. I guess it's a gamble, as with most things in life...

In my case, I'm glad I was the squeaky wheel when it came to my Marauder's valve guides... the way those valve stems looked after barely half-a-year of operation, I would have surely seen a serious failure or degradation of performance at some point in my ownership. Now the only thing left I have to deal with is a clatter from the motor that's audible only after a very long (5+ hours) drive, which then goes away within a day or two... that will be addressed very shortly (I'm thinking cam hold-down torque)...

[04MEMA]

Thanks Bradley G, Triple Trans Am and BillyGman.
Billy, here's the answers to your questions:

I put Royal Purple in at 1,000 miles, again the noise didn't show up till about 2k. It's whatever the viscosity Merc calls for - I think it's 5W20, I didn't go out to the MM to double check. I run 93 Octane almost always. Had one tank of 91 once, and when I took the Mercury mechanic for a ride I had 94 in it. Finally I have revved the engine in neutral or park probably a half dozen or so times (4 -4.5k rpm). The Ford dealer mechanic revved it up to red line a couple times too.

To be fair, the last Merc dealer took a few days with the car, and I thought they gave it a good amount of attention. However, I would have preferred a more solid answer. And despite the fact that they heard the sound, the paper work I got back with the car did not state that they heard the sound, and it said that everything was normal. I think that's a little weak. As much time as I've invested trying to sort this out and they don't want to be on the hook for not diagnosing a sound my car is making? :bs: I would have preferred the paper work say "a ticking or rattling sound was heard under the stated conditions, however this sound was present in another new MM that was driven off our lot. That combined with no effective way to pinpoint the source of the noise lead to the sound being labeled 'normal'" To me, that would be telling it like it is.

Thanks everybody,
Jeff :beatnik:

[SergntMac]

Since we're running out of possibilities, I'll suggest two wild azzed guesses.

WAG #1...The interior of the valve cover has a sheet metal (tin) baffle attached to it, the purpose of which is to limit oil splash from the DOHCs and valve train, and to keep engine oil from polluting the EGR system. It has cutouts and bends, that shape it around cam/valve train components, and it's held in place by tiny screws. Clearance is very tight.

My WAG is that at a certain RPM, this baffle is pushed, pulled, or, sucked into contact with the cam/valve train in some way. It may have come loose too. I've seen 4V DOHC baffles with serious dents and scrapes on them.

You can investigate this by pulling the driver's side valve cover for inspection, and check your cam torque while you're in there as well. I doubt the dealership would underwrite the cost of inspection until some proof of deviation is revealed, so, it's a gamble on your behalf. Nonetheless, it will rule out one consideration, and there is a 50/50 chance of solving the problem. Expect a 100-125 buck repair bill if everything is healthy.

WAG #2...Cam chain tensioner is "floating" at a certain RPM. No real way to test or inspect for this, but some of our members have lost their cam chains, and without much surprize from the factory. (shrug) Just a thought...

[Bradley G]

Hey Jeff,

I had similar results last visit to the dealer.They are LAZY:mad: .I would ask the S/M (only no writer)to document that they too, hear a engine noise and; PUT IT IN WRITING!!!also ask who the district (zone) rep is and write his name down . NO threats just documentation.I would ask to be able to meet district rep and state your beef and let him listen to your engine.Don't tollerate thier no action approach.If dealers can skirt an issue ( Warranty related) they will !!especially if it is something out of the ordinary.

Bradley G

[04MEMA]

Thanks for the WAG's - It may just turn out correct. Incidentally, how involved is it to remove the valve covers and the timing chain cover? In the case of the chain tensioners, is it obvious (by visual inspection) when they're bad?

I think I'm going to find out who the district rep is. I would like to have someone who's on Ford's payroll listen to this sound. You have to wonder why the dealer didn't crack open the motor to take a look around, I'm thinking it's that they won't get paid by Ford to start poking around looking for clues. I've never had a motor make this sort of racket! Thanks for the input and help everybody, I'll keep you posted as things happen.

Jeff :coolman:

[SergntMac]

Thanks for the WAG's - It may just turn out correct. Incidentally, how involved is it to remove the valve covers and the timing chain cover? In the case of the chain tensioners, is it obvious (by visual inspection) when they're bad?
Like I mentioned earlier, Jeff, pulling the driver's side valve cover isn't a big deal, but you may have to offer to pay for it upfront to get them to inspect. I'd expect a 100-125 buck bill. The front timing cover is another story, I'll have to check on the hours. But, for sure it won't be as cheap or easy a job.