Help Overheating!

[mdmarauder]

Last night I had to make a run to the store. Got in the MM it was cold drove about a mile temp went to half way. Immediately after that the temp starting shooting up to the top of the scale and heat went to ice cold out of floor vents. Went home right away opened the hood and had a little coolant overflowing from overflow tank. I'm thinking stuck thermostat. What do you guys think? It's a 04 by the way and dead stock.

:help:

[teamrope]

With my limited mechanical experience on these newer set ups that would be my guess. At any rate, let your dealer deal with it. It should be covered under warranty.

[SergntMac]

Your symptoms describe an air bubble in the cooling system. Have you made any changes recently?

[RoyLPita]

It could be a stuck thermostat. Have them check the cooling fan circuit, too.

[mdmarauder]

Nope no changes. Car is totally stock. Air Bubble could be a possibility. I just hope this is a problem that can be resolved in one visit.

[hitchhiker]

Is there something about our MM's cooling system that makes them extra sensative to air in the cooling system.

I have owned many cars and never had a problem, even when the radiator was a little low!

Can any one shed some light on this subject?

Thanks,

David

[Haggis]

Al, take it to the dealer and let them look at it under warranty. One of the mechanics at King L/M owns a Marauder ask for him, can't remember his name. If you do meet him tell him about the December CAM Meet at Big Bats.

[prchrman]

had same issue...water pump...dealer changed thermo first did not do it...changed water pump - bingo- problem solved...willie

[Smokie]

Is there something about our MM's cooling system that makes them extra sensative to air in the cooling system.

I have owned many cars and never had a problem, even when the radiator was a little low!

Can any one shed some light on this subject?

Thanks,

DavidThe potential for trapped air is high because people have a tendency to refill coolant at the bottle which is not the higest point in the system, the horizontal metal coolant pipe is where refills should take place; it has a round cap you remove. That is the highest point in the system, so no trapped air.

[mdmarauder]

Hmmm...I've never added coolant to the car except if the dealer did at it's first oil change a while back. I hope it's not the water pump. I've rearly been able to get my dealer to fix something like this with out several trips and major inconvience. It's been at the dealer all day. I'll let you guys know what the say.

[JACook]

The potential for trapped air is high because people have a tendency to refill coolant at the bottle which is not the higest point in the system, the horizontal metal coolant pipe is where refills should take place; it has a round cap you remove. That is the highest point in the system, so no trapped air.OK, I know I'm new 'round here, and I'm not out to start any flame wars, but...

The reason people add coolant to the bottle is because that's what it's there for.
The cap on the crossover pipe is not intended as a place to add coolant. Fact is,
if you open this cap, you're more likely to admit air into the system.

The cap on the crossover pipe is there to allow you to purge air out of the system.
You do this by cracking the cap loose with the engine running. Loosen it just enough
to allow some coolant to trickle out. When you get only coolant, with no air bubbles,
you're done. Tighten the cap.

Now, back to the original question, I think prchrman is going to end up with the gold star.
Reason being, a thermostat that's stuck closed will cause overheating, but will not cause
the heater to quit, unless all the coolant got puked out from the overheat. The heater loop
functions whether the stat is open or closed. Unless mdmarauder has one major air bubble,
the loss of flow in the heater loop, and engine overheat at the same time, at least suggests
a water pump that's no longer doing what it's name implies it should.

I would err on the side of caution, and have the car towed to the dealer for repairs.
If it is the pump, you risk serious engine damage if you drive it very far at all.

Again, not attacking anyone, just callin' 'em the way I see 'em.
My $0.02, FWIW

[Smokie]

OK, I know I'm new 'round here, and I'm not out to start any flame wars, but...

The reason people add coolant to the bottle is because that's what it's there for.
The cap on the crossover pipe is not intended as a place to add coolant. Fact is,
if you open this cap, you're more likely to admit air into the system.

The cap on the crossover pipe is there to allow you to purge air out of the system.
You do this by cracking the cap loose with the engine running. Loosen it just enough
to allow some coolant to trickle out. When you get only coolant, with no air bubbles,
you're done. Tighten the cap.

Now, back to the original question, I think prchrman is going to end up with the gold star.
Reason being, a thermostat that's stuck closed will cause overheating, but will not cause
the heater to quit, unless all the coolant got puked out from the overheat. The heater loop
functions whether the stat is open or closed. Unless mdmarauder has one major air bubble,
the loss of flow in the heater loop, and engine overheat at the same time, at least suggests
a water pump that's no longer doing what it's name implies it should.

I would err on the side of caution, and have the car towed to the dealer for repairs.
If it is the pump, you risk serious engine damage if you drive it very far at all.

Again, not attacking anyone, just callin' 'em the way I see 'em.
My $0.02, FWIWI admit I was not as complete as I should have been, if you have an untouched; from the factory coolant system (we will presume that it was correctly filled) there is no need to go to the little round cap at all, go to the bottle and add there as needed.

If you have for any reason whatsoever had a major coolant lost ie: thermostat changed, water pump, burst hose, etc. You should not just simply add to radiator and bottle, you will have giant air bubble in x-over pipe because it is the high point in the system.

You can fill your radiator and the bottle fully from crossover pipe and when coolant reaches the neck of that opening, the chances of having air in the system are minimal.:D

[mdmarauder]

So dealer says than can't get it to duplicate the problem. They are going to keep it over night and check it in the morning. They said they will change the thermostat. I argued the point about the water pump but they say no way. They told me since the pump is not leaking or making any noise it's fine. By the way the MM only has 5600 miles. I know this would not go well. :mad2:

[mdmarauder]

By the way does anyone know if out cars have "Limp-Home Mode" As in the alternating cylinders to prevent engine damage from overheating.

[dansenander]

I believe I can anwser your question.

When my car was new (171 miles) I immediately checked all the fluids.
I was able to purge 1/4 gallon of air when it was stock new. Apparently, the factory introduced air to the system during filling or they underfilled it. (Makes me wonder how many others are low from factory and what damage this may cause)

After installing the low temp T-stat (DR) and the Under Pulleys (Steeda), I refilled it and purged it of air to what I felt was enough.

Now to the point.... Today I read MURADER03's post and found that he and I have the exact same "No Heat at low RPM" issue. Someone suggests air in system. Sooo... off to the garage...engine up to temperature...heater on full...and repurge the system.

Here is what I did different (kinda clever I thought). Engine hot and running, I placed a funnel with the same diameter in the crossover pipe and filled it 2 inched deep with water. Squeezing the upper hose forced the air into the funnel and up thru the water, therefore not allowing any air to return!! (Similar to brake bleeding method)

This time I cleared enough air to add 1/2 gallon.

Problem fixed. 1 hour including engine clean up time.

Dan in MN:burnout:
2003A with 7,000 miles

[dansenander]

[This time I cleared enough air to add 1/2 gallon.]

Oh, and by the way, the reserve tank read dead on at "Cold Full" even when missing a 1/4 gallon.

(If you have owned a Chev 9C1 with the LT1 you know what I'm talking about. Always had to overfill that car cuz they used the same overflow tank as the smaller engine models)

Hmmmmmm?
Kinda makes ya wonder.......How accurate is the so called "Full Cold" mark????

DS

[JACook]

I admit I was not as complete as I should have been, if you have an untouched; from the factory coolant system (we will presume that it was correctly filled) there is no need to go to the little round cap at all, go to the bottle and add there as needed.

If you have for any reason whatsoever had a major coolant lost ie: thermostat changed, water pump, burst hose, etc. You should not just simply add to radiator and bottle, you will have giant air bubble in x-over pipe because it is the high point in the system.

You can fill your radiator and the bottle fully from crossover pipe and when coolant reaches the neck of that opening, the chances of having air in the system are minimal.:D
Ah. Thanks for the clarification, Smokie. That makes a whole lot more sense!

[JACook]

I argued the point about the water pump but they say no way. They told me since the pump is not leaking or making any noise it's fine. Well, I'll agree it's not how they usually fail, but no way I'd say "no way".
A pump can look fine on the outside, with no looseness, noise, or leaks, but if the impeller has gone,
it won't pump. Been there, been bit by that. But if it's cured itself, then I'm gonna have to jump over
to the "air bubble" side of the fence. :-)
No harm in changing the thermostat, especially if they get the system purged completely afterward.

[MarauderMark]

It it happens again then more than likely could be a head gasket.

[Murader03]

Last night I had to make a run to the store. Got in the MM it was cold drove about a mile temp went to half way. Immediately after that the temp starting shooting up to the top of the scale and heat went to ice cold out of floor vents. Went home right away opened the hood and had a little coolant overflowing from overflow tank. I'm thinking stuck thermostat. What do you guys think? It's a 04 by the way and dead stock.

:help:

Don't know your total outcome yet, but! Mine did this back in 2/04. Thermostat stuck closed. Had it replaced under warranty. In April the engine started missing. They found burnt valves and a cylinder wall with hot spots in it. Engine was replaced under warranty. This was brought about by the overheating in Febraury. Since then, I've had the cooling kit from Dennis installed. The offending cylinders were both back cylinders on both side. Now, I'll read the rest of the posts.....

[DEFYANT]

FYI, they call it "burping" the system. Thanks to all the posts here.

Yet again this forum is proving to be valuable resourse. This is good information to be aware of. Thanks again.

[mdmarauder]

Murader 03 you are scaring me. :(
I might be off to check trade-in value. :alone:

[Ross]

So, if I don't trust the fluid level in my reservoir, and I want to check it at the crossover pipe, what is the best way to do that? Here is what I am thinking, correct me if I'm wrong.
1. engine cold.
2. take radiator cap off
3. take crossover cap off
4. refill with coolant at the crossover pipe until it won't take any more
5. replace caps

Yes? No?

[RF Overlord]

From my handy-dandy .pdf version of the owner's manual:

1. Before you begin, turn the engine off and let it cool.
2. When the engine is cool, wrap a thick cloth around the coolant
pressure relief cap on the coolant reservoir (an opaque plastic bottle).
Slowly turn cap counterclockwise (left) until pressure begins to release.
3. Step back while the pressure releases. (Editorial comment: "duh...")
4. When you are sure that all the pressure has been released, use the
cloth to turn it counterclockwise and remove the cap.
If coolant reservoir is empty, continue with steps 5–9, if coolant
reservoir level is only slightly low (coolant still in reservoir),
continue to steps 8 and 9 only.
5. Remove coolant bleed plug from the coolant bypass tube using 1/4 inch square drive.
6. Add coolant/water mixture through the bypass tube opening until full at bypass opening.
7. Install the coolant bypass bleed plug. Be sure plug is tight.
8. Fill the coolant reservoir slowly with the proper coolant mixture (see
above), to within the “cold fill range” or the “cold full” level on the
reservoir.
9. Replace the cap. Turn until tightly installed. (Cap must be tightly
installed to prevent coolant loss.)


Operating an engine with a low level of coolant can result in engine overheating and possible engine damage. (another editorial comment: "Really?!")

[Ross]

Thanks, Overlord. I guess the only real difference between what I suggested and what the book says is that I suggested taking off the radiator cap, and the book says to take off the reservoir cap. I figured you had to have a pressure release somewhere to let the new coolant flow into the system and push out any trapped air, I just guessed the wrong cap to take off.

[RF Overlord]

Actually, Ross, the only thing missing from your procedure is to start the engine and let it warm up with the cross-over cap slightly loose, to be sure all the air is expelled. I just copied the manual to be "official" about it... :D

[Murader03]

Murader 03 you are scaring me. :(
I might be off to check trade-in value. :alone:

Don't mean to scare you, just enlightening those that missed the posts back in the Feb.-April time frame. As for the limp home feature, I don't know. I pulled off the road prior to the needle pegging the upper mark. Still the damage was already in progress before that. This event happened at the 52K mileage mark, and the engine was replaced within 60 days do to the internal damage done. As stated in those posts, it is believed that FMC is/was aware of the cylinder overheat problem. As there were only 2 long blocks available in the entire country when my dealer ordered the new engine, it would seem that there was a shortage of long blocks for some reason or another. The cooling problem is also prevalent in other Ford products using similar engines. But, unless you run into an overheating issue, you may never know the problem exists.