Ummm...

[SergntMac]

Just this past week, in one of the many supercharger threads discussing (LOL) superchargers, it was mentioned that many Cobra owners are reportedly switching out their OEM Eaton/roots blowers for something more efficient. Those words were denounced, proclaimed to be nonsense, and the author untruthful.

Oh well...

http://www.fordracingparts.com/announcements/news09.asp

Snip..."The first kits available from FRPP will be supercharger swap kits for the 2003-04 SVT Mustang Cobra and 1999-2004 SVT F-150 Lightning. Ford Racing worked with Whipple Industries on the development of the screw-type supercharger swap kits. The kits will include a new screw-type supercharger to replace the production roots-type unit, including all necessary hardware for direct bolt-on installation. The kits are direct swaps and do not require engine management programming changes. Power is expected to be increased by approximately 20 percent."...End snip

[BillyGman]

Thanks for the info MAC. This doesn't surprise me though since many of the Cobra guys who want more power out of their engines lean toward the twin-screw Kenne Belle set-ups. Twin-screw S/Cers are superior to both the roots type as well as the centrifugal type since they offer a broader RPM range of power than either of the other two do. The twin screw design offers the high RPM power of the centrifugal, and also the low-end, and midrange torque of the roots type design. And the twin-screw design does so w/less heat. That's probably the reasons why Ford had Eaton design the twin-screw Supercharger for the new 2005 Ford GT. Unfortunately there are no twin screw S/Cer kits for the Marauder, as I'm sure that you already know.

[Tallboy]

Just this past week, in one of the many supercharger threads discussing (LOL) superchargers, it was mentioned that many Cobra owners are reportedly switching out their OEM Eaton/roots blowers for something more efficient. Those words were denounced, proclaimed to be nonsense, and the author untruthful.

Oh well...

http://www.fordracingparts.com/announcements/news09.asp

Snip..."The first kits available from FRPP will be supercharger swap kits for the 2003-04 SVT Mustang Cobra and 1999-2004 SVT F-150 Lightning. Ford Racing worked with Whipple Industries on the development of the screw-type supercharger swap kits. The kits will include a new screw-type supercharger to replace the production roots-type unit, including all necessary hardware for direct bolt-on installation. The kits are direct swaps and do not require engine management programming changes. Power is expected to be increased by approximately 20 percent."...End snip
the post you are referring to said the cobra owners were switching to centrifugal type superchargers. the article you linked to indicates otherwise.

[SergntMac]

That's probably the reasons why Ford had Eaton design the twin-screw Supercharger for the new 2005 Ford GT.
I'm not up on my corporate structure here, Billy, is Whipple an Eaton company?

I'll say this, I'm quite pleased to see FMC and FRP moving ahead to produce this stuff in a timely fashion. It makes the '05 GT even more seductive.

[BillyGman]

I'm not up on my corporate structure here, Billy, is Whipple an Eaton company?

.
I'm not sure I understand your question. That is, assuming it's a sincere one, and w/out sarcasm. But Eaton is the company who has designed and produced the S/Cer for the new Ford GT. does that answer your question MAC?

[SergntMac]

I'm not sure I understand your question. That is, assuming it's a sincere one, and w/out sarcasm. But Eaton is the company who has designed and produced the S/Cer for the new Ford GT. does that answer your question MAC?
Don't be so defensive, Billy, I'm just asking...Jeeze!

I'm confused. You say it's Eaton, when both the FRP memo, and Whipple's announcment say it was Whipple. Both could be true, if Eaton owned Whipple, I'm just looking for clarity.

Snip..."That’s right, get the same supercharger that’s utilized on the new Ford GT, 06’ Lighting and Cobra. With the industries largest, most efficient, latest designed twin-screw superchargers, the Whipple can produce incredible power levels with the stock 4.6L Cobra engine as well as highly modified engines. Run 8-15psi of boost on pump gas and have the ability to produce nearly 25psi for racing applications."...End snip

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1204

[BillyGman]

Okay, allow me to clarify something.........

Whipple, and Eaton signed a contract w/eachother back in october, 2000 to produce the Lysholm twin-screw supercharger. The deal was(and IS) that Whipple will have the aftermarket side, while Eaton has the OEM factory side. That's why Eaton has been the one who designed the twin-screw for the Ford GT since that is the factory OEM application. By law, Eaton cannot produce any Lysholm twin screw S/Cers for the aftermarket, and Whipple cannot produce them for the OEM applications for the car manufactures. here's a direct quote taken off of the Whipple website.........

"has now signed an exclusive agreement with Lysholm Technologies and Eaton Corporation to distribute twin-screw compressors of Lysholm design to the aftermarket industry. With this agreement, Whipple Superchargers has already begun development of “bolt-on” supercharger systems for popular Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, BMW, Mercedes and Mercury Marine engines with state-of-the-art computer technology to aid in computer programming. Eaton Corporation has an exclusive contract for Lysholm compressors for OEM levels while Whipple Superchargers will handle the aftermarket industry. Whipple no longer has any involvement or association in any way to the company Kenne Bell or Kenne Bell products."


And here's a link to the exact Whipple webpage where that quote can be found....

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/news.asp?articleID=50

[SergntMac]

the post you are referring to said the cobra owners were switching to centrifugal type superchargers. the article you linked to indicates otherwise.
But they also said it was all bogus too...

[BillyGman]

MAC, I'm sorry for being defensive. I guess it's because a couple people here have been taking pot shots and throwing some false accusations at me lately. It wasn't you, but they know who they are. Anyway, the answer to your question is in my previous post^

[Joe Walsh]

Before we start S/C Wars III.....her's a few sites that have info about Eaton, Whipplecharger, Autorotor, and Lysholm;

www.sandsautomotive.com (whipplesuperchargers-about supercharging)

www.timskelton.com (powertrain-which twin screw?)

www.kennebell.net (tech info-Kennebell/Autorotor vs Lysholm feature comparison)

[SergntMac]

MAC, I'm sorry for being defensive. I guess it's because a couple people here have been taking pot shots and throwing some false accusations at me lately. It wasn't you, but they know who they are. Anyway, the answer to your question is in my previous post^
Got it. Learned something I didn't know, thanks.

[BillyGman]

Thanks Joe. but all the specific info MAC was looking for is contained right there in post #7.........oh, and BTW, you'll notice that on the website that the first link that you've provided leads to, if you look at the bottom of the page at the list of S/cer manufacture Links, you'll notice that Eaton is NOT listed. And that's simply because Eaton mostly deals with car manufactures, rather than with the aftermarket. Magnuson is their distributor which alsmost anyone who isn't a big company would have to go to in order to purchase an Eaton S/Cer. Trilogy is a major engineering company that works closely with Ford, and I'm sure that this is why the Trilogy kit includes an Eaton S/Cer. But that's a special case. Eaton's main focus is, and has always been, being the OEM for factory cars (examples of that are Ford,Pontiac, Oldmobile, Jaguar, Mercedes, & Aston Martin).

[BillyGman]

Got it. Learned something I didn't know, thanks.
You're very welcome MAC. Hey, you've taught me things as well, just as others have. That's what we're here for. :banana2:

[stevengerard]

So what's the difficulty with a Whipple compared to the trilogy. The Trilogy has its own upper and lower manifolds correct? so does that mean a twin-screw can't use the same trilogy manifold? Is there more to it, it would be cool to try to custom fabricate something for the twin-screw. I'd guess it would be harder than a centrifugal but easier than a turbo set-up.

[BillyGman]

So what's the difficulty with a Whipple compared to the trilogy. The Trilogy has its own upper and lower manifolds correct? so does that mean a twin-screw can't use the same trilogy manifold? Is there more to it, it would be cool to try to custom fabricate something for the twin-screw. I'd guess it would be harder than a centrifugal but easier than a turbo set-up.
Easier than a turbo, I'm sure, but I wouldn't touch any S/Cer w/out having a complete kit for it, and one that was specifically intended and designed for the exact model car that I'd be installaing it in. For example, don't you know of Jeff (aka "Effster") who was the first and only Marauder owner here to install a Kenne Belle twin screw on his Marauder? He's a professional mechanic who also owns a speedshop, and he had a major hassle installing the thing on his car despite the fact that the kenne belle kit that he purchased was for a Cobra, which is also a 4.6L engine. He had to become his own fabricator and engineer in order to make everything work, and it took him a while to get the project completed.

But as far as your question as to whether or not the same intake manifold can be used, I really don't know. But even if it can be used, you would still need to have a special air inlet piece made for the rear of the Whipple S/Cer, since the ones they make for the Cobra and Mustangs sweep to the passenger side rather than to the driver's side like on our Marauders. And you might also need a special alternator bracket as well since the snout on the Whipple unit might not be as long as the one on the Trilogy S/Cer. And who knows what else? Besides, after spending several thousand $$ on the Trilogy kit, I'm not about to go spending even more than that for a twin screw S/Cer in a experimental attempt to try and combine the two S/Cer kits together, and make the engine run right.

[studio460]

Great info, BillyG!

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Before we start S/C Wars III....
III....???? I think we are at V or VI now !!!! :cool:

[stevengerard]

And who knows what else? Besides, after spending several thousand $$ on the Trilogy kit, I'm not about to go spending even more than that for a twin screw S/Cer in a experimental attempt to try and combine the two S/Cer kits together, and make the engine run right.

Ok thanks, so that answers some of my questions but others are still unanswered. I guess what I'm saying is there are guys like Todd, Marty, Mac, Zack and others who are willing/able to go that extra mile. So the fact that its not a kit and is a cost concern to guys like you and I doesn't mean someone else on the list wouldn't want to attempt it. Just be because one person did it and said it was a pain doesn't mean others aren't willing to do it themselves or pay someone else to do it. That's why I am asking.

[Warpath]

There's a good article in MM&FF comparing the stock Cobra Eaton blower, Kenne Bell screw blower, Vortech centrifugal, and twin turbos. They include curves which is most important. They perform all the tests on the same engine at the same boost level. They also touch on advantages and disadvantages of each. I suggest reading it. The cover has a picture of an engine with two superchangers and twin turbos installed on it with the caption, "Can 3 superchargers beat 2 turbos" or something like that.

[MikesMerc]

There would be some significant re-engineering of a Trilogy-like kit to accomodate a Whipple. The lower manifold will not work at all. Nor would the inlet design. And, more importantly, it would require sheet metal change of the hood to accomodate the hieght of the blower.

Anyway, rather than hack up a Trilogy kit, the best bet would be to just get one of the new Kenne Belle blower kits for the 4.6 cobra and start modifications from there. (for those that do not know, the Kenne Belle is a twin screw lysholm design.) You'd still be faced with fabricating inlet tubing and hood accomodations, but you'd be much closer match with manifolding done for the 4.6.

If anyone could ever get a kit like that done (a screw type blower for the MM) that would indeed be sweet! That's the best of both roots/centrifugal world's.

That said, you'd also see A LOT of dead motors. The Kenne Belle puts out enough boost at efficient temps that you could easily produce enough power to grenade a stock block. Even the cast iron cobra blocks with that nice crank can easily be grenaded.

But, for those so inclined to pull out all the stops and build a motor which can handle the boost and associated power, and build a bullet proof power train to handle it, a twin screw MM would be bad ass.

BTW, Mac, double check that thread you are referring to. My comments, as well as BigSlims (who we both were the only ones that poo poo'd the "cobra guys swapping to centrifugal blowers" comment) you'd see we both brought up and ackowledged the "real" switch happening is a switch to twin screw blower designs. Just FYI.

[MikesMerc]

They include curves which is most important.

Although I fully agree with you, I'll warn you that I've been personally flamed on this forum for making such "silly" comments:) Remember, we don't want to confuse anyone with the cold hard facts here on MMnet;)

[SergntMac]

I guess what I'm saying is there are guys like Todd, Marty, Mac, Zack and others who are willing/able to go that extra mile. So the fact that its not a kit and is a cost concern to guys like you and I doesn't mean someone else on the list wouldn't want to attempt it. Just be because one person did it and said it was a pain doesn't mean others aren't willing to do it themselves or pay someone else to do it. That's why I am asking.
Tip your hat to Kenny Brown, the man who introduced supercharging to the Marauder over two years ago. With NOTHING on the market for the MM, and very little known about it's construction, or, design he set out to build one bad azzed car, and he did. Everything in my MM is custom fabbed, built for the first time ever, and with little CAD/CAM assistance from Ford.

Kenny Brown embodies the true meaning of automotive engineer, and thanks to him and his work, we have choices. From zero to choices, and so many choices, we foolishly fight about "the right one." LOL, ain't no such thing, and it will never be that way. Discussing differences is one thing, always nice to help out answering a question. But, declaring one as the one and only? LOL...All you get is older and around.

Been a fast two years, eh?

[2005Marauder]

Quote at the bottom says:

"Ford Racing Performance Parts are sold without warranty and are for off-road use only."
News release also has: "*Not legal for sale or use on pollution-controlled motor vehicles."


My Allen Kit is CARB certified and came with one-year warranty with optional three-year.

[BillyGman]

I guess what I'm saying is there are guys like Todd, Marty, Mac, Zack and others who are willing/able to go that extra mile. So the fact that its not a kit and is a cost concern to guys like you and I doesn't mean someone else on the list wouldn't want to attempt it. Just be because one person did it and said it was a pain doesn't mean others aren't willing to do it themselves or pay someone else to do it. That's why I am asking.
MAC has a Kenny brown car, and Kenny brown is a formidable company that hires enginners to do their guess work. Zack has a S/cer from DR which included a complete kit, and as far as Marty's project, well look how long it's takne him so far to put that thing together, and get it to run right? And he still isn't finished yet. I'm sure that he will even tually get it done, but this whoole thing began last spring!!! I'm not saying Marty is wrong to do what he's done, nor that his car is anything less than anyonne else's car. What I'm saying is that I think you're missing the point, because none of the people you've used in your examples applies here. You're implying that marty hasn't had any major obstacles, and I can tall you that he HAS had some MAJOR ones, and he's still not over them all. I wish Marty the best and i will have a sincere congretulations for him when he's finally finished, but just Like Effster, I'm sure that if marty was completely honest w/you, he would fully admit that this project of his has taken a lot more than he ever dreamed it would. And that is by no means a knock against him. I only bring this up because many people seem to be getting the impression that anyone can do what marty and Todd have done, and if you knew about the major deals that went down to make this project even get to the unfinished point it's at now, then you would realize that not anyone can do it.

[stevengerard]

You're implying that marty hasn't had any major obstacles,

I only bring this up because many people seem to be getting the impression that anyone can do what marty and Todd have done, and if you knew about the major deals that went down to make this project even get to the unfinished point it's at now, then you would realize that not anyone can do it.

Billy Billy Billy, got to love ya. One day I need to meet you, my guess is at the end of the day you'd do anything for me or anyone on the list. In the meantime I said nothing about Marty or anyone else not having major obstacles, as for Mac, he did create the first set of aftermarket control arms and is now in the midst of ripping his engine apart. Furthermore I never said "anyone" could do it. I said there may be some who would like the challenge and others who have the financial means. I have yet to meet one person with the exact same 442 as I do, I'm guessing the MMs may be the same in years to come.

[Logan]

God damn it.