Too Many Choices, Help! ! ! !

[MM2004]

Glad Mongoose recommended this site! Clearly you guys know your MM's!

I have an '04 completely stock :bigcry: and do not know which direction to turn as far as performance chips, tuning, etc. I would hate to imagine the time spent searching for information on this subject with everyone claiming they are the expert.
"Newbie" here is asking for the skinny on best choice for added horsepower without taking on a second mortgage, . . For now anyway!
What is the impact to warranty as I am covered to 75k?:help:
In need of a starting point!!!

Thanks,
Michael.

[Bluerauder]

Glad Mongoose recommended this site! Clearly you guys know your MM's!

I have an '04 completely stock :bigcry: and do not know which direction to turn as far as performance chips, tuning, etc. I would hate to imagine the time spent searching for information on this subject with everyone claiming they are the expert.
"Newbie" here is asking for the skinny on best choice for added horsepower without taking on a second mortgage, . . For now anyway!
What is the impact to warranty as I am covered to 75k?:help:
In need of a starting point!!!

Thanks,
Michael.
For starters you may wish to check out the thread titled "300 HP on a Budget (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12107&highlight=route) > That should give you some ideas short of a S/C.

Oh, by the way, welcome to the MM.Net :welcome:

[Petrograde]

hmmm,... I was gonna suggest a Superchips Microtuner. If memory serves, the '04 MM doesn't have an OBDII port.... so,.. nevermind :(

I started with Denso plugs and the 180 degree thermostat from Reinhart.

Typically, a chip, plugs, 180 stat, and 4:11 gears have a pretty good bang for the buck.

Welcome to the site!

[Smokie]

Welcome aboard !!!! On a budget with warranty concerns ?
A tuner that stores stock program and 3 other custom tunes like the SCT 9100 is a good choice, you can always restore original program and no physical evidence of a change.

Dennis Rienhart offers an excellent custom program as does Lidio at Alternative Automotive. I will give you a link to what I have done and the results HERE (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13390). Simple mods, not very expensive, strong results. Good luck, I am sure you will be offered many choices by some of our members that have enjoyed impressive results.:)

[MarauderMark]

Yep i started out with the reinhart stage I kit .but it wasn't enough!!so i got stage II and still had a yern for more .now i have stage III and it's great but quess what ?? I want more.i can't help it. :lol:
Call Dennis and talk to him he won't steer you wrong.. :up:

[bigslim]

Welcome to the site. My first mods are the 410 gear and a chip from Alternative Performance. You can also add underpulleys and headers to get more power. There are also a few companys that offer superchargers for our cars. It depends on what direction and how much money you want to spend to get your car the way you want it. I would start with the gears and a chip or tuner.

[ALF]

Just read all the old threads.........It will take days but worth the read.

Welcome to the site!

[MM2004]

Excellent start for me and thanks for the links, advice, etc. Understanding it is hard to spend less and gain more, just the choices out there with self-proclaimed experts to a novice/beginner as myself are overwhelming. Love the car as is considering I have only had it for a month and a half but eventually mods are going to happen. Might as well collect information now to prepare my wallet for the inevitable!

[Bigdogjim]

Lots of ways to go that for sure!

You need to ask yourself what do want the car to do? How much money you got?

Then just go insane :cuke: :razz: :argh:

[MM2004]

Already insane! I do want to go faster, and the bug is biting already especially after reading all the mods you guys have done to your MM's with bragging rights of course.:)
Would like to keep first mod under, oh, . . $800.00:confused:

[Smokie]

Already insane! I do want to go faster, and the bug is biting already especially after reading all the mods you guys have done to your MM's with bragging rights of course.:)
Would like to keep first mod under, oh, . . $800.00:confused:I hear you, PCM flash, cooler plugs and stat...way under $800 netted me a 14.49 @ 97.51 mph...you can go much faster...but not for less $$$$ :)

[MM2004]

Great start especially hearing the part "much less". Thanks for the link you sent above! E-mailed them to myself so I won't have to ask the same question two, three, four, you understand. I have been searching for days on this site and cannot believe the info. I have found! Need a bigger monitor, starting to go blind! Uh, leave that one alone please. I am a new MM owner ya' know!

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

This is all you need! Take out a second mortgage if you have to. Life is short play fast. :up:

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/22401MOD.JPG

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2240GARAGE-KING2.JPG

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2240EATON-112.JPG

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2240DRIVERS-SIDE.JPG

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2240NICE_.JPG

[MM2004]

Oh man!! You have any extra tissues? Just went thru a box after seeing that!

:bigcry:

Jealous as hell!

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Tears Of Joy!!!!

[SergntMac]

hmmm,... I was gonna suggest a Superchips Microtuner. If memory serves, the '04 MM doesn't have an OBDII port.... so,.. nevermind :(

I started with Denso plugs and the 180 degree thermostat from Reinhart.

Typically, a chip, plugs, 180 stat, and 4:11 gears have a pretty good bang for the buck.

Welcome to the site!
Sorry to correct you, Tom, but all '04s have OBD-II ports, and the correct upgrade gearing is to a 4:10 ratio, if this is what the owner wants to do.

What '04's do not have, is the obstacle you point to, a "knock-out panel" in the '04 EEC. What '03 owners could push out with their fingers and connect an aftermarket chip to, now requires tin snips and without any assurance that the chip will have any PCB connection available once they cut it up.

A "flash" tune is very possible for any '04 owner, and owning a hand held SCT programmer resolves many backward issues. It's also a backward to '03 recommendation, given the progression of EEC tuning as we know it here.

[Mike Poore]

In need of a starting point!!!
Michael.
:welcome: Michael, I like the idea of starting at the back, first. That way you don't have to un-do stuff you've paid for. For starters, a 4:10 gear set and stud/girdle kit from Wes Chain (Shiney Hiney Option), then add one of Dennis Reinhart's drive shaft setups. That ought to take care of most of the $800, plus, as you do stuff in the future, the basics will be already taken care of. Both of these folks are vendors here and highly recommended, not to mention the price break they give MM net members.:twocents:

[CRUZTAKER]

Hey Mac....Tommy's just on the agave again....:P I'm sure it was just a typo.

Sure, I'll add some input. I was very much in the same position as you are now, when I bought mine. I didn't have much money, and the resources weren't so abundant as they are now.

You still want to try and stick to what everyone here basically refers to as 'phases'. Now these phases aren't ground in stone, and they have quite a few 'variences' to them now, but the phases are the guidlines to N/A upgrades.

If the S/C is not in the picture, as it has not been for me, just ignore the teasers that will make you drool at their every effort. I love my MM, and it's damn fast.....I mean it too... It's not supercharged either.;)

Since you have your budget (and that's good), there is no reason at this time to even talk about phase-II and III mods.

1) You need to start with some type of tuner.
This is solely up to you, and you need to thoroughly weigh your choices as to what is good for you in the long term. The choices include:
A) A hand held programable tuner. You upload a preloaded generic program into your EEC. You may also restore your origanal defaults if needed. If you need to make changes due to further mods, or if you do not like the shift points and/or personal settings....you must send it back for a new program. I believe there may be additional fees involved.
B) A 2 or 4 position chip. Similar to above regarding making changes, but you must open your EEC and install this chip yourself. The chip is aquired from a tuner person close to you*, and each position is set to your personal choices regarding all aspects of drivability. Some of the programs could even be set for future mods such as gears, etc., thus saving the troubles of returning the chip for reprogram in the event of future mods.
C) A flash. Your new settings are flashed into your EEC and override the factory settings. With this type of tune you are at the mercy of the dealers potential to ERASE these settings if they do a software upgrade with out your knowledge while the car is in for an oil change. Erasure = money down the tube.

The dealer cannot erase your CHIP, and if they did over-ride your tune from the handheld, you could merely reinstall it yourself when you get home.

2) Colder spark plugs and thermostat to accomodate and enhance the tune mentioned above. This is optional, but recommended. Done correctly, cost effective as well. Since you are on a budget, I advise you to avoid the Denso brand plugs. They are $100 for a set and do not show gains worth that kind of money. Buy the colder MOTORCRAFT AWSFA12C for around $25/set at the dealer. Many of the parts shops have difficulty locating this plug, but try anyway. You will need a 180 degree thermostat as well. $14 through a variety of vendors.

*The plugs, thermostat, and chip you can install yourself. If you are close to the Ohio border you may consider a drive to Alternative Auto in Michigan and have your chip or tuner custom burned to your needs and your cars individual A/F ratios set to their optimum settings via a Dyno machine. A chip, with dyno and personal tune run about $450 out the door, and I highly recommend this method for your phase-I. If you are closer to the Florida border, I suggest you do the same and go see Dennis Reinhart.

[CRUZTAKER]

Gears usually accompany the TUNE portion of phase-I if it's in your budget. The gear change in conjuction with the tune is your first step toward some really noticable changes in the way the car performs. A typical CUSTOM tune with a chip will gain as much as 40 hp and drastically change the way the car acts on the road. Gears dramatically change the launch power of this car and shave nice numbers off 1/4 mile 60 foot times.

Gear types are your choice as well. 4:10's and 4:30's are the most appropriate for common every day drivers and give up as little gas milage and rpms at highway speeds as possible.
A set of 4:10's, parts and install is as low as $460 out the door.

If you can swing it, have the gears done at the same time as the dyno tune and chip.

[MM2004]

After digesting the replies/options from you guys, it would make sense to my beer wallet/champagne taste to go for the gears first. I don't drive x-ways but about 20 miles a day round trip to work + a few miles on the side roads. I am not too worried about gas mileage. However, I don't want to kill it as I drive this everyday.
I am familiar somewhat to the "chip" but a little confused on the tuning mentioned. Warranty purposes, if in jeapordy from the mods, will "scare" me off as they would not be worth the risk at this time.
There were several threads on driveshaft upgrades and personally do not understand why or know the history of the MM and driveshafts to warrant replacing the stock DS. I have been building driveshafts for twenty years now, and can say with confidence that the stock DS + 4.10 gears will not see critical speeds that would cause the DS to ultimately "unwind". This type driveshaft would have to spin in excess of 8,000 rpm for this condition to occur.
Once I locate all of the specs. of this driveline. I will forward data to the group on what the expected static torque/fatigue/critical speed values are for this application.
My way of giving back something for everyones assistance.

[CRUZTAKER]

.... and personally do not understand why or know the history of the MM and driveshafts to warrant replacing the stock DS.
Oh man...you're gonna open a can of worms here...he he he:P
Read some past threads on this first and do your own thing man!
BTW: I hear ya :cool:

As far as gears only....you're gonna have to deal with the speedo inaccuracies and the rev limiter issues without some type of tune to correct the changes from the gears. You won't like the way the engine and trans act if the PCM isn't aware of the gear change. Been there done that.

[bigslim]

After digesting the replies/options from you guys, it would make sense to my beer wallet/champagne taste to go for the gears first. I don't drive x-ways but about 20 miles a day round trip to work + a few miles on the side roads. I am not too worried about gas mileage. However, I don't want to kill it as I drive this everyday.
I am familiar somewhat to the "chip" but a little confused on the tuning mentioned. Warranty purposes, if in jeapordy from the mods, will "scare" me off as they would not be worth the risk at this time.
There were several threads on driveshaft upgrades and personally do not understand why or know the history of the MM and driveshafts to warrant replacing the stock DS. I have been building driveshafts for twenty years now, and can say with confidence that the stock DS + 4.10 gears will not see critical speeds that would cause the DS to ultimately "unwind". This type driveshaft would have to spin in excess of 8,000 rpm for this condition to occur.
Once I locate all of the specs. of this driveline. I will forward data to the group on what the expected static torque/fatigue/critical speed values are for this application.
My way of giving back something for everyones assistance.
If you do a gear change you should do the chip too. Before I got this MM I turned in my old MM to the dealer with my 410 in it. I drove it two miles without the chip and it was a dog. Also the speedo was off. Do the gears, do the chip.

[Petrograde]

Sorry to correct you, Tom, but all '04s have OBD-II ports, and the correct upgrade gearing is to a 4:10 ratio

No apologies needed, thanks for sqauring me away! I knew 4:10 gears are for Fords,... brain fart.

However, I thought I read a thread a while back saying that '04's could'nt be flashed because there was no OBD-II port?... hmm,.. that may have been on a straight Tequila Night! :lol: Thanks for clearing that up for me Sarge.


PS- Hey Barry,.. no Agave last night,.. never on a 'school night' :lol:

[Mongoose]

Glad to see you're getting your feet wet Michael.
Don't forget to check your PMs. :D

[David Morton]

Beautiful stuff, but you might take a personal inventory of how you wind up driving this car. (my driving style definitely changed) Drive it a couple of months first and save your heavy bags of cash. I wound up making a few minor preliminary changes but wound up getting good brakes, my mods are listed most recent first. The KVR 14" brake kit isn't just good, it's awesome! I know, I figured I'd get some more giddy-up and wear out the factory brakes first, but after a few close calls, I decided to be realistic about myself and knew I had to get more whoa-nelly before making this already fast car faster.

Welcome to a very exclusive club of special people. :D

[Haggis]

Welcome to the Collective, resistance to modding is futile. You will be assimilated.





If the S/C is not in the picture, as it has not been for me, just ignore the teasers that will make you drool at their every effort. I love my MM, and it's damn fast.....I mean it too... It's not supercharged either.;)

I'm not a tease. :P

[wesman]

MM2004, welcome to the club. Go Fast crack-pipe addict here too. You want your warranty intact, go SCT Tuner route. You want the ultimate custom tune for your car, but no warranty, go Alternative Auto custom chip.
For the rest of the mods, set a budget, and then act surprised when you are 3 times over it. But keep going.
The driveshaft flexes, its just plain scary listening to the car at 110mph.

[Tallboy]

[QUOTE=Haggis]Welcome to the Collective, resistance to modding is futile. You will be assimilated.



i remember getting this same message when i first got here. at first i had every intention of keeping my car stock. then i drove carfixer's car with the gears, tuner, and underdrive pulleys-what a difference! then i got to thinking "i can see the smiles on the faces of the supercharged mm owners through thier posts".

[sigh] my signature tells the rest of the story...

[Patrick]

Tears Of Joy!!!!

Thants what I am saving my pennies for!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome!!!!

[Haggis]

[QUOTE=Haggis]Welcome to the Collective, resistance to modding is futile. You will be assimilated.



i remember getting this same message when i first got here. at first i had every intention of keeping my car stock. then i drove carfixer's car with the gears, tuner, and underdrive pulleys-what a difference! then i got to thinking "i can see the smiles on the faces of the supercharged mm owners through thier posts".

[sigh] my signature tells the rest of the story...

Another one has been assimilated. (wild mad laughter)

[mpearce]

I started with a 2 position chip, and 4.10 gears. That mod alone should be in the ballpark of what you're trying to hit cost wise. I love the difference in the car from the stock feeling. One position is for 93/94 octane, and the other is tuned specifically for 100 unleaded which is the tune I use when I race. There is definitely a difference between the two SOTP wise.

My best time in stock trim - 15.199

My best time with chip and gears - 14.234

Work was done at Alternative Auto in Mt. Clemens MI. I chose them because they're less than 3 hours from my doorstep in Cleveland.

However, there are plenty of things to learn from everyone on this site. I find it absolutely amazing how much I have learned about cars in general just from reading posts here.

Now it's all up to you to make the decision.

-Mat

[studio460]

My $0.02:

You have two options:

1. Do all the minor mods slowly, incrementally (however, your tolerance for more speed increases exponentially).
2. Do the supercharger. Then do suspension and brakes.

Had I to do it all over again, I wouldn't have spent one penny on minor mods. I would've done the Trilogy supercharger FIRST. And probably headers second. Suspension third. Brakes last. Still, for the supercharger, it's a lot of money to spend in one chunk, but the minor mods do add up, and you're still going to be wanting more after all the minor mods have been completed.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Had I to do it all over again, I wouldn't have spent one penny on minor mods. I would've done the Trilogy supercharger FIRST. And probably headers second. Suspension third. Brakes last. Still, for the supercharger, it's a lot of money to spend in one chunk, but the minor do mods add up, and you're still going to be wanting more after all the minor mods have been completed.
I agree, well said!

[merc406]

[QUOTE=MM2004]After digesting the replies/options from you guys, it would make sense to my beer wallet/champagne taste to go for the gears first. I don't drive x-ways but about 20 miles a day round trip to work + a few miles on the side roads. I am not too worried about gas mileage. However, I don't want to kill it as I drive this everyday.
I am familiar somewhat to the "chip" but a little confused on the tuning mentioned. Warranty purposes, if in jeapordy from the mods, will "scare" me off as they would not be worth the risk at this time.



What's the rush? It's a good drivin machine, wait alittle bit and get some miles on it and then decide and save some dough in the mean time.
You may find after reading here the only mod you need is a S/C. :burnout: