Dealer will not install 4:10's

[Mard]

Spoke with a service manager today at my local Ford dealership about installing 4:10's and I was told they couldn't do that installation due to emission laws:confused:. They continued they could only install them if they were available as factory option on my car. I was told to go to an outside shop and yes I would void the warranty on the rear end.

I assumed since they are an SVT dealership there wouldn't be a problem.

Is this emission law for real?

[BlackHole]

The Marauder was originally going to have 4.10's but due to CARB CEPA and a couple of other California enviro laws the Marauder went with 3.55's But best thing I can give you is look for a racing/speed shop with a lot of road course /circle track experiance in rear end gear set ups.

[jgc61sr2002]

Spoke with a service manager today at my local Ford dealership about installing 4:10's and I was told they couldn't do that installation due to emission laws:confused:. They continued they could only install them if they were available as factory option on my car. I was told to go to an outside shop and yes I would void the warranty on the rear end.

I assumed since they are an SVT dealership there wouldn't be a problem.

Is this emission law for real?


Find another dealer. Some are MOD friendly.

[hbarrett]

My dealer had no problem installing my 4.10s, and was quite happy to get his 350 bucks for labor. Yes, the rear end warranty is voided, but that is to be expected with the mod. Find another SVT dealer who understands the car better.
Howard
Spoke with a service manager today at my local Ford dealership about installing 4:10's and I was told they couldn't do that installation due to emission laws:confused:. They continued they could only install them if they were available as factory option on my car. I was told to go to an outside shop and yes I would void the warranty on the rear end.

I assumed since they are an SVT dealership there wouldn't be a problem.

Is this emission law for real?

[DirtyDog]

I beleive Brutforce had his installed at the Everett Dealer. I had my installed at Randy's ring and pinion in Everett.

Dave

[89VERT]

As far as a dealer not covering the rear end under warranty, wouldn't they cover their own workmanship for a reasonable period?

If the dealership installed Ford gears,wouldn't Ford guarantee their parts for a pre-determined time?
I thought most dealerships provided some confidence in their service departments by offering this .

[Bigdogjim]

Spoke with a service manager today at my local Ford dealership about installing 4:10's and I was told they couldn't do that installation due to emission laws:confused:. They continued they could only install them if they were available as factory option on my car. I was told to go to an outside shop and yes I would void the warranty on the rear end.

I assumed since they are an SVT dealership there wouldn't be a problem.

Is this emission law for real?


Yes the emission law is for real. I do not agree with it but, who am I?

My selling L&M Dealer would not install them either. :mad:

Come to think of they would not do much of anything :puke:

Check with a local Mustang Club:)

[BruteForce]

I beleive Brutforce had his installed at the Everett Dealer. I had my installed at Randy's ring and pinion in Everett.

Dave

Harbor Pointe LM at 10400 Evergreen Way (HWY 99). Tell Kevin/Aaron that Scott sent ya. I've broken them in well. They know more about moddin' the MM than most LM service departments with all the stuff I've had them do.

[DEFYANT]

My dealer had no problem installing my 4.10s, and was quite happy to get his 350 bucks for labor. Yes, the rear end warranty is voided, but that is to be expected with the mod. Find another SVT dealer who understands the car better.
Howard
Speaking of that dealer, I stopped in there the other day. They were repacing headgaskets on a black Marauder w/ what appeared to be a polished vortec s/c. Talk about mod friendly! :coolman:

[teamrope]

Spoke with a service manager today at my local Ford dealership about installing 4:10's and I was told they couldn't do that installation due to emission laws:confused:. They continued they could only install them if they were available as factory option on my car. I was told to go to an outside shop and yes I would void the warranty on the rear end.

I assumed since they are an SVT dealership there wouldn't be a problem.

Is this emission law for real?Olympia Lincoln Mercury installed mine. They did ask if they were Ford Motorsport gears, and once I said yes, they said it should not be a problem, and the waranty will still be good because they are Ford factory parts. On the emission laws, that's :bs:. Valleyman in California has 4.10's and their smog laws are worse than ours.

[EDIT] I should read the complete thread first... Harbor Point might be closer to you. Either way, you've got options. :D

[warren]

Mard,
I live in Calif. and yes some dealers won't intall the 4.10's.
The LM dealership would not and did not know how.
The Cobra Ford dealer wanted 5 to 7 hrs to do it.
Many auto shops were willing to do it but.....most all of them
did not do it very often and so they wanted too much money
or too much time.
I had purchased Dennis R's 4.10's & several other parts 2yrs. ago,
but could not find a good rear end installer. So I looked on the
internet and found one that only does differentials in my area.
I found a true expert in San Leandro, CA - Differential Doctors.
It took him only 1 hour & he checked & replaced all needed parts
as he had everything instock. And the price was very competitive.
The end result was a perfect install to tight spec's. by an expert.
Now I have a rear end that works better than OEM and its a 4.10.
I will do a tech. write up soon on it. Yes 4.10's or 4.30's are a must!
Dennis R can go over detailed reasons why for you and he has them instock.
Bottom line - find an expert that only does diff's. in your area.
Good Luck,
WarrenB
:)

[RF Overlord]

Mard, it is very common to have the dealer refuse to do work such as this...mine did, too. As far as using "emission laws" as an excuse, many states have a mandatory annual vehicle inspection program that also checks for emissions, so to that extent the "emission law" is for real; however, installing 4.10s will not affect the vehicle's emissions, so that part was :bs: .

[sundaydog]

The Lincoln Mercury dealer on Staten Island wanted $1100 to install 4:10s. They wanted $550 for the gears and $550 for labor. Not very mod friendly.

[Mike Poore]

Spoke with a service manager today at my local Ford dealership about installing 4:10's and I was told they couldn't do that installation due to emission laws:confused:. They continued they could only install them if they were available as factory option on my car. I was told to go to an outside shop and yes I would void the warranty on the rear end.

I assumed since they are an SVT dealership there wouldn't be a problem.

Is this emission law for real?
Forget the dealer(s) There are comprtant mechanics who charge lower rates than Ford dealerships. If the gearset is installed properly, there are no warrenty issues anyway. Just make sure, if you ever need warrenty service, your computer gets re-flashed back to stock, before the Ford shop gets to look at it. That's when you have warrenty "issues".
:banned:

[CRUZTAKER]

It took him only 1 hour & he checked & replaced all needed parts......:)Holy cats and jammers!!:D That was a fast install. Guiness book numbers there.


Hey Mard, I told you when you joined that you have a great group out there. Take advantage of their knowledge and resources. Trade some phone numbers, and get together. :up:

btw: I shiver at some of the prices folks have posted....oh my...:shake:
Gears only cost $160 or so. I paid $300 for the install, and the poor guy struggled for nearly four hours.

[03MERCMARAUDER]

The dealer did the gears in my car when i hydrolocked the motor about a year ago and the even installed my chip,plugs,stat,sway bar along wotht th engine the insurance company had gotten from Dennis, they have never given me a hard time at all.

[QWK SVT]

however, installing 4.10s will not affect the vehicle's emissions, so that part was :bs: .
Actually, it will. At any given speed, you are now turning the engine faster, therefore moving more air/fuel through per time unit. Along with that additional air & fuel, at higher rpm, comes an increase in emissions output.

Having said that, he increase is probaly a relatively nominal amount.

[SergntMac]

Actually, it will. At any given speed, you are now turning the engine faster, therefore moving more air/fuel through per time unit. Along with that additional air & fuel, at higher rpm, comes an increase in emissions output.
Yeah...So does starting the car and driving it to work every day. But, no worries mate, the car's been discontinued now, so, we'll have no more of that bull*****, eh?

[1 BAD 03 MM]

I had my installed at Randy's ring and pinion in Everett.

Dave

I agree with Dave. I called just this week they quoted me 650+ change to do the install, that's including the gears. (I will be installing 4.30's though.) Also said they could get it in and out in the same day with an appointment. :D

[RF Overlord]

Actually, it will. At any given speed, you are now turning the engine faster, therefore moving more air/fuel through per time unit. Along with that additional air & fuel, at higher rpm, comes an increase in emissions output.

Technically, you are correct...but I think what is being referred to here is that most emissions inspections only test tailpipe emissions on a PPM (parts per million) basis, so the RAR is irrelevent.

[TheDealer]

The fact is that any tech found modifying an emmissions vehicle is subject to a $10,000.00 federal fine. This is why most dealers won't do it. Your average auto shop doesn't get stung like a dealer. We have people trying to get us to do illegal things all the time. You don't know who they are and might be from the EPA or the state. We have found the state bringing vehicles to us to do emmissions inspections to that have something disconnected. If we pass the car and don't see it on a visual inspection weather it passes the sniffer test or not, we can get a 6 months suspension and a fine. The federal and state agencies are always trying to get dealers. They sent people to our sales dept. to try to get us to scam taxes or not report large cash down payments to the IRS. The state just spent a week here auditing our state sales taxes. They found nothing. This is why most dealers won't do any modifications. It's not worth it.

[RF Overlord]

The fact is that any tech found modifying an emmissions vehicle is subject to a $10,000.00 federal fine. Ray, I thought that only applied to a tech attempting to DEFEAT emissions equipment, like removing the cats, blocking the EGR, things like that...?

[TheDealer]

Any modification that can change emmisions. This will due to the rpm range being different than what the systems was designed for.

[hbarrett]

Do you believe that changing the gears to 4.10 and flashing the PCM will render the vehicle to be in violation of excessive emission levels? Should we suspect that we will fail state inspections?
Thanks,
Howard
Any modification that can change emmisions. This will due to the rpm range being different than what the systems was designed for.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Spoke with a service manager today at my local Ford dealership about installing 4:10's and I was told they couldn't do that installation due to emission laws:confused:. They continued they could only install them if they were available as factory option on my car. I was told to go to an outside shop and yes I would void the warranty on the rear end.

I assumed since they are an SVT dealership there wouldn't be a problem.

Is this emission law for real?

This is hog wash 4:10's will not effect emisons the reason why Mercury went with 3:55'S BECAUSE OF gas milage, Steve Babcock told us that at Ennis, but again with good tuning and colder plugs and stat we have shown there is very little if any gas milage loss with 4:10,s dealers all over the country install Ford Motorport gears with out voinding the warranty, so just find a good shop to do this. :beer: :beer:

[duhtroll]

I got hassled by the exhaust guy when he said taking the cats off to put the hi-flows on was illegal unless the originals were damaged. I asked him (since I already had the originals off and all he was doing was putting up the x-pipe etc.) "How do you know they weren't damaged?"

End of line.

-A

[DirtyDog]

I agree with Dave. I called just this week they quoted me 650+ change to do the install, that's including the gears. (I will be installing 4.30's though.) Also said they could get it in and out in the same day with an appointment. :D

Buy the gears somewhere else and just have them install. You'll save some money. They want about 350 for the ford racing gears and you can buy them elswhere for 169.

Dave

P.S. I took my in at 8:30 and called me to come and get it at Noon.

[Dennis Reinhart]

There on sale this month for 170.00 :beer: :beer:

[QWK SVT]

Yeah...So does starting the car and driving it to work every day. But, no worries mate, the car's been discontinued now, so, we'll have no more of that bull*****, eh?I agree, it's a BS excuse, but it DOES increase emissions. Going from 3.55's to 4.10's is probably a very small difference. What about some of the beat-to-hell 80-something Camaros, that came with 2.73's, and jump to 3.73's, or 4.10's? I think they classify gear changes as impacting emissions, because of the extreme situations... To stop a few, they take it away from all :rolleyes:

Having said that, I had no emissions problems going from 3.08 to 3.73's on my old Mercury Cougar, and had 4.10's in my old Camaro. As long as the owner looks after the vehicle properly, and augments the gear change with a good tune, I don't think the actual levels increase substancially, if at all.


Technically, you are correct...but I think what is being referred to here is that most emissions inspections only test tailpipe emissions on a PPM (parts per million) basis, so the RAR is irrelevent.Do you guys have a full emissions check, or is it just a visual and/or measurement at idle? Up here, we have to run the car on a dyno, every two years (once the car is 3-years old), and have all the outputs measured. Personally, I think it's a money-grab, for the government (but that's another story):mad2:

[TheDealer]

Fine you guys that know so much can pay the $10,000.00 fine and have you stations emmision lifted for 6 months. Do you have any idea what it would be like for a new car dealer not to be able to do inspections, [200 new and used cars a month and 500 customers] because somebody wanted a set of gears installed. Why are there different calibration codes depending on what gears are in a car. You can't even legally put dual exhaust on a car. Why is there a different calibration code and ecm for dual exhaust. Let the independent guys do this work. The dealer has to much to lose.

[hbarrett]

You seem to be suggesting that dealers that install mods may violate state emission laws. Is this just a problem in PA? I'm not many miles down the road from you in MD, and the dealer had no problem with the 4.10 mod.
Fine you guys that know so much can pay the $10,000.00 fine and have you stations emmision lifted for 6 months. Do you have any idea what it would be like for a new car dealer not to be able to do inspections, [200 new and used cars a month and 500 customers] because somebody wanted a set of gears installed. Why are there different calibration codes depending on what gears are in a car. You can't even legally put dual exhaust on a car. Why is there a different calibration code and ecm for dual exhaust. Let the independent guys do this work. The dealer has to much to lose.

[hdwrench]

harley dealers change exhaust,cams, reflashes, carb mods etc all the time... :confused:

[TheDealer]

It's a federal law. They probably don't know any better.

[GA-Marauder]

4.10 gears have nothing to do with emissions testing. You don't move, in fact, most tie into the diagnostics, check the readings at the exhaust (ppm of pollutants), print it and bang, you're done. My son has a '96 Honda Accord coupe with mods out the yingyang (catback exhaust, cai, headers, etc.) and it passes emissions every year. If we are just talking about 4.10s (as this thread started), then frankly, there is no problem. If anyone reading this has EVER had a problem with emissions testing, please speak now. Let's see what we get.

[hdwrench]

It's a federal law. They probably don't know any better.
doubtful...

[hbarrett]

Dennis, I agree with you about the mileage. My mileage is just as good since the 4.10s and your program were installed. As for the warranty, my dealer warned me that they would do the gears, but the factory warranty on the differential would be voided. I let them do the gears anyway.
Howard
This is hog wash 4:10's will not effect emisons the reason why Mercury went with 3:55'S BECAUSE OF gas milage, Steve Babcock told us that at Ennis, but again with good tuning and colder plugs and stat we have shown there is very little if any gas milage loss with 4:10,s dealers all over the country install Ford Motorport gears with out voinding the warranty, so just find a good shop to do this. :beer: :beer:

[QWK SVT]

4.10 gears have nothing to do with emissions testing. You don't move, in fact, most tie into the diagnostics, check the readings at the exhaust (ppm of pollutants), print it and bang, you're done. My son has a '96 Honda Accord coupe with mods out the yingyang (catback exhaust, cai, headers, etc.) and it passes emissions every year. If we are just talking about 4.10s (as this thread started), then frankly, there is no problem. If anyone reading this has EVER had a problem with emissions testing, please speak now. Let's see what we get.
I have not had a problem, with other cars that I have added more gear to. Whether you move, or not, is very dependant on where you are. For example, here's the high level of the test we go through, here"

"An approved inspector will drive your car or light-duty truck onto a dynamometer. This machine is like a treadmill that allows the vehicle to be "driven" on one spot at different speeds.

A probe is placed in the tailpipe of your vehicle. The probe is connected to a gas analyzer and computer, which can measure the concentration of nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbons (including volatile organic compounds) and carbon monoxide.

When the inspector accelerates your vehicle to a steady speed of 40 km per hour, an emissions reading is recorded. Several of these five-second readings are taken and then averaged by the computer.

The test results will be compared by a Drive Clean computer to emission standards for the vehicle and its model year. For example, if you drive a 1986 model car, it will be tested against 1986 emission standards with an allowance for vehicle deterioration.

You will receive a computer-generated report at the Drive Clean facility. It will state if your vehicle emissions "pass or fail" and give you an analysis of the pollutants coming from the tailpipe. If you fail, you will receive a fact sheet describing some of the possible causes of failure. Vehicles failing must be repaired and re-tested until a pass certificate is obtained.

You have to take this pass report to a Ministry of Transportation vehicle licence office, along with the other documents needed to renew your licence
plate sticker or to transfer ownership."

[TheDealer]

I never said that it would make you fail a test. I just said you are changing it. If you only change gears and nothing else [no retune] you are changing the emmisions of the vehicle. The emmisons will change, no enought to make you fail a test. This is why the EPA says we can't change a ratio.