What do you do when the dealer's shop pulls this on your air cleaner?

[mtnh]

Hi,

I had the dealership change my air filter before a trip last summer with around 16K on the car. I bought a new filter this summer and was ready to change it out for months. I finally got to it yesterday, and was completely shocked at what I found. The air filter was disfigured out of place on one of the ends. So in essence, my wife's car engine has been breathing unfiltered air for 17K miles. This is unbelievable. Here I was, trying to toss some non-warranty work to the dealer's shop in an effort to build rapport (like you're encouraged to do so that borderline warranty claims may swing in your favor, etc...)

Any suggestions? Please see my photo gallery to view the images. I got my butt kicked trying to attach the pics...

Thanks,

Mike

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/136

[RF Overlord]

If I have to spend time checking up on or correcting everything the dealer does, then why bother going there at all...? This is exactly why I always do as much of my own work as possible...

Mike, I would definitely bring it back to them and make them aware of your displeasure at what happened...if your car went 17,000 miles without proper air filtration, I would make them clean the MAF & throttle body and change the oil, all on their dime...

[DEFYANT]

If I have to spend time checking up on or correcting everything the dealer does, then why bother going there at all...? This is exactly why I always do as much of my own work as possible...

Mike, I would definitely bring it back to them and make them aware of your displeasure at what happened...if your car went 17,000 miles without proper air filtration, I would make them clean the MAF & throttle body and change the oil, all on their dime...
DITTO.

Air filter replacement is pretty simple, I cant believe they could :censor: that up!

[Mike Poore]

Any suggestions? Please see my photo gallery to view the images. I got my butt kicked trying to attach the pics...

Mike I saw the pictures, and that's just awful. What makes it worse is that it could have been that way out of the box and the service tech put it on anyway. After you've calmed down I'd suggest a visit to the dealer, with evidence in hand, and, at least, request a complete diagnostic on their dime. That may tell you if there's damage to the valve seats, guides or cylinder walls.
Furthermore, I don't subscribe to the good will theory about dealerships. I mean, why pay them $25 or so for an $8 filter from Walley world, not to mention the appointment "dance". They don't remember, nor do they care: it's first time, every time, for them. That's not to say I don't have a favorite dealer that's sold me every one of my cars for the last twenty or so years. It's just that, unless it's a warranty issue, those guys aren't getting anywhere near my car.:twocents:
:hide:

[SilverStreak]

Very first oil change at the dealer and they overfill the engine by 1/2 quart according to the daffy dipstick in these cars, with who knows what kind of oil out of a ceiling hose. That was it for me too. If it's not warranty, it don't go back there.

[BillyGman]

Mike, I would definitely bring it back to them and make them aware of your displeasure at what happened...if your car went 17,000 miles without proper air filtration, I would make them clean the MAF & throttle body and change the oil, all on their dime...Mike, I agree w/the above part^ of RF's post concerning what you should do about this now that it's already occured. I'd also save the receipt that they gave you for that visit, as well as the pics of that filter too, so that if something ever goes wrong w/your engine, you might have a case in court if push comes to shove. I understand your reasoning for throwing $$ at your dealer, since I pretty much follow the same theory and practice. However, I do most of the maintainence tasks myself such as the oil, oil filter, air filter, PCV valve, and sparkplug changes. The only tasks I have a dealer perform are transmission fluid flush & change (twice per year), front end alignments (if I know they have the wheel clips that attach to the outside of the mags near the bead of the tire so that the mags won't get scratched), and a brake fluid flush & change once per year.

That's really the only things I'll trust the dealer with, and I keep a close watch to make sure that nobody takes my car out for a joyride. That way they have a record of my visits twice per year, so they cannot ever complain about me never being there, and if I ever have a warantee claim that clearly has nothing to do w/my car being supercharged, and they seem to be hesistant to help me, I can go to the service manager and boldly point out to him that I've been a regular customer for maintainence. And BTW, I'd go right to the service manager w/this complaint if I were you to make him aware of what one of his careless mechanics did, and I'd bring a copy of those pics to show him too!!!!

[MitchB]

This is really unfortunate. Document this with the dealer and file a complaint. I hate to tell you, but I see the results of air induction leaks with greater frequency than I'd like. I would definitely take an oil sample and send it off for an analysis. Tell us what they find.

Mitch

[BillyGman]

This is really unfortunate. Document this with the dealer and file a complaint. I hate to tell you, but I see the results of air induction leaks with greater frequency than I'd like. I would definitely take an oil sample and send it off for an analysis. Tell us what they find.

Mitch
HMMMM, that sounds like an excellent idea to me. :up:

[Marauder8]

If I have to spend time checking up on or correcting everything the dealer does, then why bother going there at all...? This is exactly why I always do as much of my own work as possible...

Mike, I would definitely bring it back to them and make them aware of your displeasure at what happened...if your car went 17,000 miles without proper air filtration, I would make them clean the MAF & throttle body and change the oil, all on their dime...
Plus be responsible for any engine wear due to their lack of quality.........

[Bluerauder]

Mike I saw the pictures, and that's just awful. What makes it worse is that it could have been that way out of the box and the service tech put it on anyway.:hide:
That was my impression also ... that the filter was probably crushed in the original box. Someone in that shop had to get rid of the filter or eat the cost. Since the filter was marked "For Marauders Only", you drew the unlucky card. They got caught with their bad decision and slipshod service ... unfortunately, it'll be pretty hard to prove one way or the other. If it's a good dealer, they will make it right for you. If not .... take your business elsewhere.

[Mikeenh]

Mike,
My wife had some troubles at the same dealership with her Lincoln. She didn't get any results until she spoke directly to Mr Grant. You can do a lot of damage by sending an unfavorable report to Ford. They all like to get a "perfect" rating on paper.

[Bradley G]

Hey mthn,

I feel your pain my friend!I checked my 1st filter swap @ 11K and found the FACTORY installed a deformed filter that looked similar to yours!I requested that my dealer put it in writing in case I have an dirt issue.
Bradley G

[jobrien8]

Can't figure out how the filter ended up that way. Maybe the cover didn't close correctly and the "tech" pushed the filter through the inlet. In regards to the dipstick, when we get engines for testing one of the items done is replacing the oil/filter and remarking the dipstick. You would be suprised how many are incorrect. But then many of the sticks are used in different engines or applications.

[mtnh]

Thanks for the comments so far.

MikeE, how do you know which dealer I am referring to? The name of your contact doesn't ring a bell...

The sad part of this was that I had to leave the car there for a whole day because they had to resource that filter from another dealership. I didn't bring it in just for that, I had it in there for a second IAC motor replacement due to stalling at punch time when entering a roadway from a stop.

MitchB, in what way do you see the results of contaminated air induction on a regular basis? And what are those results? Top cylinder wear, ring wear, valve seat wear? I did notice what appeared to be metal shavings in the oil drain pan while emptying it from the oil change that I performed just 20 minutes before I opened the air box.

Jobrien8, what would be your casual advice to seek here? I think that a compression test would be a great place to start, but what is baseline compression on a 33k mile 4.6 DOHC? I also am inclined to believe that the true symptoms of the damage caused by this will be most felt and observed down the road nearing 60-90K miles. Also I see in your sig that you are using mobil 1. What grade are you using? (not joking, since there is no Mobil 1 in our Fomoco recommended grade...and you appear to be employed by them)

Billy, your attitude on dealer service is similar to what I was trying to get at; use them for a few minor "fool-proof" jobs in order to be on their good side.

Mike

[MitchB]

...I had it in there for a second IAC motor replacement due to stalling at punch time when entering a roadway from a stop

There's a possibility here that the IAC failed from exposure to dirt!!!


MitchB, in what way do you see the results of contaminated air induction on a regular basis? And what are those results? Top cylinder wear, ring wear, valve seat wear? I did notice what appeared to be metal shavings in the oil drain pan while emptying it from the oil change that I performed just 20 minutes before I opened the air box

Mike, I review the oil analysis performed every 3K miles on 260 Series 50 diesel engines used in NYC Transit Authority buses. To put things in perspective, the equipment I am responsible for accumulate a total of close to 8 million miles annually. So I review a lot of oil analysis!

One of the red flags that requires immediate corrective action is the presence of silicon. This indicates an air induction leak - meaning unfiltered air is entering the engine. Silicon is commonly known as sand. Ingested into an engine, it works it's way into the crankcase and ends up in the oil. But before it gets there, dirt (sand) will abrade valve seats, cylinder walls, rings and pistons. Concurrent with the presence of silicon and depending on the severity of the induction leak - as indicated by the level or concentration of the contamination, I will see evidence of ring face wear, cylinder liner and piston scuffing.

Aside from what is obvious on an analysis report, the engine can have a loss of compression (valve seal) or excessive blowby (rings). Do a compression check on the engine and post your results. Someone else here will possibly have a baseline for you to compare this to. With your mileage, you should have compression comparable to a new engine. Watch your oil consumption as this will be a pretty good indicator of the condition of your engine.

Good luck and tell us what you find.

Mitch

[jobrien8]

Compression should be between 185-210psi. We check compression either every 50 or 100 test hours, depending on test.
I use 5-W-30 in all of my engines (3.8L Supercharged, 4.0L, 4.6L).
Since you found shavings in your oil, I would suggest (if you still have it) cut open the filter to see what is in there. This is the first place the oil goes. Also when you drain, use a dark cloth to filter thru before going into the drain pan. Usually you will see some foreign material in your oil during the first one to three oil changes. Most will be seen in the first change. That is why you should change it around 100 miles. This way you remove metal filings and core sand from the engine.
Hope this is helpful to you.

[mtnh]

I just got around to getting in to the dealer with my air filter panel problem, and surprise, surprise, they don't want to hear about it. Pictures, old air filter panel, it's just "tough luck." I guess that I need to escalate and remember to let the car off the jack onto my hand or something similarly painful to remind me to never go to a dealership garage again for such a simple thing. They won't even give me a complimentary compression test as jobrien8 recommended.

:mad2:

[BillyGman]

Did you talk to the service manager? If you did, then maybe you should send a PM to Ray (aka "The Dealer") and ask him if there's anything that you can do about this.

[mtnh]

Billy, thought of that, thought of that, Done that, done that. Ray didn't have any thing to add. I guess that would be indicative of his side of these things, seeing his handle's name. I guess that these dealer guys just hope that you just "go away" and get over it.

It still sucks to have a minimum wage-earner or slightly higher laborer ruin an $8K assembly with improper installation of a $10 part and then have service people look the other way when you catch them. These are the same guys that left my MM's front end fasteners loose twice for the same alignment, after I handed them the extracted service manual pages stating the proper torque values for the parts to be loosened during front end adjustments. Then they reset to factory specs after I handed them the carfixer alignment specs, and then they reset to carfixer's specs and left the outer tie rod end nuts loose. I have a really bad taste in my mouth when I recount the sloppy work that I, a knowledgable customer, experienced.

Mike

[TheDealer]

Billy, thought of that, thought of that, Done that, done that. Ray didn't have any thing to add. I guess that would be indicative of his side of these things, seeing his handle's name. I guess that these dealer guys just hope that you just "go away" and get over it.

It still sucks to have a minimum wage-earner or slightly higher laborer ruin an $8K assembly with improper installation of a $10 part and then have service people look the other way when you catch them. These are the same guys that left my MM's front end fasteners loose twice for the same alignment, after I handed them the extracted service manual pages stating the proper torque values for the parts to be loosened during front end adjustments. Then they reset to factory specs after I handed them the carfixer alignment specs, and then they reset to carfixer's specs and left the outer tie rod end nuts loose. I have a really bad taste in my mouth when I recount the sloppy work that I, a knowledgable customer, experienced.

Mike

Mike, I'm not siding with anyone. Take it to court, the first thing the judge is going to ask is, what are your damages. None. I agree it's shoddy workmanship. What would you expect the court to do. I told you to have it documented and them if there ever is a problem, and you can prove this cause it, you'll have a case. Please don't say I side with anyone. I have always been more than fair on here. Please don't PM me for advice anymore. RAY

[Bradley G]

I'm not taking sides either. the same thing happened to me!Except that the factory used a panel that was stepped on or crushed ??I got the dealer to document this but the car runs fine and I can't say or prove that thier will be any adverse effects from this.This was not a dealer problem,but a Factory employee negligence.I don't think either of us are going to have an issue with this,but I reported it and requested the dealer to document it just to cover my azz!
Bradley G

[TheDealer]

It still sucks to have a minimum wage-earner or slightly higher laborer ruin an $8K assembly with improper installation of a $10 part and then have service people look the other way when you catch them.

The reason we have minimum wage earners is because you th public demanded it. In 1969 we had all top notch high paid techs. The public complained that the dealers prices were too high. Along come companies like Jiffy Lube cutting the prices. The dealers couldn't stay competitive so they hired inexperienced kids for minimum wage to work on your cars. You can't expect a kid to do the same quality of work as a top tech. The dealership paid higher wages to their techs than anyone. All the public is interested in is price. You can't have the same quality for a cheaper price. If we paid a $28.00 per hour tech to do $19.95 oil changes and $89.00 brake jobs, the dealer would lose money on everyone they did. A friend of mine just bought a Porche. They give him nothing. No pick up and delivery, no loaner, no free sevices. Their oil changes are very expensive. Would they want a kid doing it, no. So they pay, just like plumbers, electricians, and Doctors. Just my .02.

[jparrie]

This is one of the best reasons I can think of for having your oil analyzed at every change. Not only would you have spotted this problem befor 11K, but it would also be one more piece of doccumentation on your side in case of a dispute in court.

Sorry to see such a display of shoddy workmanship and the unwillingness of the service department to step up and be responsible.

[Bradley G]

Is their a company(s) that are near Chicago? do you mail them (samples)?

thanks in advance
Bradley G

This is one of the best reasons I can think of for having your oil analyzed at every change. Not only would you have spotted this problem befor 11K, but it would also be one more piece of doccumentation on your side in case of a dispute in court.

Sorry to see such a display of shoddy workmanship and the unwillingness of the service department to step up and be responsible.

[RF Overlord]

Is their a company(s) that are near Chicago? do you mail them (samples)?

Blackstone Laboratories (www.blackstone-labs.com) is in Fort Wayne, IN...they'll send you a free collection kit. Just follow the instructions for proper sampling of the oil and packaging...analysis is $20 and shipping is $1.52 via USPS...

My last analysis was mailed on a Monday, and I had the results in my e-mail inbox on Friday...

[Bradley G]

Thanks RF you got that oil topic covered! If your not carful you may develop a reputation for this!:D

Bradley G


Blackstone Laboratories (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) is in Fort Wayne, IN...they'll send you a free collection kit. Just follow the instructions for proper sampling of the oil and packaging...analysis is $20 and shipping is $1.52 via USPS...

My last analysis was mailed on a Monday, and I had the results in my e-mail inbox on Friday...