Stock MM shift points suck..

[Matt In Detroit]

I drove the wifes DTR in this morning to work and thought id post something about the shift points. I really like this car, the looks, performance, etc.. And I cant wait to install the raffle supercharger. However I hate how it shifts. First gear runs to about 22mph, thats ok, then its in 2nd a whole 3 or so seconds and then dumps into third a few seconds later. This puts you in a boggy situation where if you then need to pick it up a bit you have to really get into the gas pedal to get it to kick down. I find it really irritating. I believe this is nothing new to you guys so what are my options.
Is this solely a chip mod? this car will probably get 4:10's in the near future which seems to me would only make this worse. If I buy a tuner is this a quick fix? I realy like everything about this car but the shifting, do i really need to buy a chip or tuner for $300+ to change this? and can the firmness of the shift be changed?
Im a 60-70's musclecar guy, I would usually fix this on an older car with a shift kit or transpack. Im pretty sure thats not the way to go on this one. If I could get the shiftpoints right and have it chirp 2nd on an agressive take off or WOT id be happy. What are my options?

Im also not a "take it to someone else kind of guy", I like to do my own mods, repairs, etc. and the like. So an answer like "take it to Lidio" isnt something id do. Although im sure he's a great guy.

[Bradley G]

Hey Matt,
I could'nt agree anymore with you the factory shifting schedule is very annoying.Especially the Od lockup waaaay to early!Just Give Lidio a call I'm sure he can sell you a Hand held tuner with his program installed.You can download New program to the car in about 5-7 minutes yourself.If you do 4:10's at the same time, have him send you the program for the gear change already installed on your tuner.I have found this program(trans behavior) to be outstanding!I have this setup on my car and if you smash the go pedal on wet pavement at any speed below 40 mph you see the traction control lamp come on.the hand held tuners also have diagnostics to read any default codes your car might display.
Good luck PM me if you have any specific questions about this!
Bradley G QUOTE=Matt In Detroit]I drove the wifes DTR in this morning to work and thought id post something about the shift points. I really like this car, the looks, performance, etc.. And I cant wait to install the raffle supercharger. However I hate how it shifts. First gear runs to about 22mph, thats ok, then its in 2nd a whole 3 or so seconds and then dumps into third a few seconds later. This puts you in a boggy situation where if you then need to pick it up a bit you have to really get into the gas pedal to get it to kick down. I find it really irritating. I believe this is nothing new to you guys so what are my options.
Is this solely a chip mod? this car will probably get 4:10's in the near future which seems to me would only make this worse. If I buy a tuner is this a quick fix? I realy like everything about this car but the shifting, do i really need to buy a chip or tuner for $300+ to change this? and can the firmness of the shift be changed?
Im a 60-70's musclecar guy, I would usually fix this on an older car with a shift kit or transpack. Im pretty sure thats not the way to go on this one. If I could get the shiftpoints right and have it chirp 2nd on an agressive take off or WOT id be happy. What are my options?

Im also not a "take it to someone else kind of guy", I like to do my own mods, repairs, etc. and the like. So an answer like "take it to Lidio" isnt something id do. Although im sure he's a great guy.[/QUOTE]

[Marauderjack]

Call Lidio or Dennis to correct this......The "Stock" trans management program is very poor!! :mad2:

I have heard the main reason is fuel mileage....Without the TC lockup so early the car would have been considered a "Gas Guzzler" and the associated surcharges would apply killing the anemic program immediately!! :o

Once you install either program you will be astonished at the SOTP performance gain!! :banana: You can also upgrade your program as you add future mods!! :cool:

Good Luck!!

Marauderjack :D

[Smokie]

You mentioned "the wife's car" How you drive it affects how it shifts, there is a certain amount of learning the PCM does based on how you drive it...drive it hard.

Another free thing you can do is take it to dealer complaint about the shifting...there are programming upgrades available to improve shifting at the dealer.

And of course...the best solution has already been suggested above.:D

[Bradley G]

I thought that '04s had all the updates (most recent) already?I took my service manager for a short ride @ very light throttle he said" did you do some thing to the trans in this car?"He also admitted he had never been in a Marauder before,I replied "how did you know that?"He said "I ran a transmission shop for many years prior to becoming a service Manager here."If you want a quick Re-Train of the Learning transmission can't you disconnect the battery terminal for a few seconds to get a fresh slate so to speak.Does this make the trans learn from this point and further input,or is this @ maximim output?

Bradley G

[SouLRioT]

Matt, I dont think I saw it posted yet, but If your going to have 4.10s in the future your going to need to have a chip/tuner anyway. So you might as well get it now to fix the shift points.

[RF Overlord]

^^^what they all said^^^

Matt, you're absolutely right, the stock shift schedule does suck...if you don't want to purchase a chip or hand-held tuner just yet, then do the "J-mod" to the valve body...in case you're not aware, the "J" in J-mod stands for Jerry Wroblewski, one of the engineers who DESIGNED this transmission, and it's doubtful there is anyone else around who knows more about it. It's a well-established mod that improves shifting significantly. He also advises against any of the aftermarket shift-improver kits, even the ones from the more well-known vendors such as Trans-go...check out this (http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4121) thread where he explains why...scroll down about ½-way and look for the response from "SCT Guy"

J-mod (http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/index.shtml)

[Matt In Detroit]

Looking on Lidios site, he has a dual mode Marauder chip for stock cars w/3:55's that has a 4:10 mode built into it that you can activate by jumpering the wires when and if you get them installed. Claims to fix driveability and other issues.....$325
Now do i understand this correctly. I can buy just a chip to install and pay $325. Or i can buy a tuner for roughly the same amount and then burn or modify the stock one?

[FordNut]

Yes, the stock tranny program sucks. That was the first thing I fixed, with a chip from Dennis Reinhart. Back in those days, he was the only supplier interested in modding the Marauder.

To answer your other question about dual program chip vs tuner, yes. But if you change to 4.10s you could have the dual program chip re-programmed for a performance (race gas) tune and a street (pump gas) tune, both with improved shifting and both with 4.10 ratios. Then you can change programs with the flip of a switch. With the tuner, you have to download a different program if you want to change between a race and street program. The tuner will hold 3 programs, I believe, but it's just not quite as convenient as flipping a switch.

BUT, with the tuner you don't have to open the PCM so it is easy to switch the program back to stock if the car is taken in for service, thereby reducing the risk of a voided warranty.

[GA-Marauder]

What he said ^^^. There has been a lot of talk in these forums about warranty issues, and there seems to be somewhat of a majority opinion (don't flame me too much) that a tuner is more acceptable because of the ability to reprogram to stock status if necessary to avoid any warranty issues. Admittably, I'm not the authority on this issue, but I'm sure others will address it shortly..

[MainEngDwarf]

I have the tuner with Lidio's program. It holds up to 3 programs plus the stock program. i like the fact that all you have to do to change programs is plug it in and follow the directions. If your dealer isn't mod friendly then its just a couple of minutes and its back to stock. IMHO the tuner is the way to go.

[MERCMAN]

I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that '04s do not accept a chip, one has to reprogram instead?

[Lou]

I have a completly stock '04 and think the shift points are pretty lousy. I also heard about the gas guzzler problem. Here's my questions about the tuner. Mine is my every day driver and I need to be able to drive it in the winter her in the Chicago area. How does it effect winter driving? How about gas mileage? I've heard some say it helped and some say it hurt.

[the_pack_rat]

No bout' adout' it ...

The factory shift characteristics blow.

Snatch up a Dennis or Lidio tuner & be done with it.

You'll be asking yourself .... "why didn't Ford program the trans to behave this way to begin with ?" every time you drive it.

I can't possibly see where bogging things down & making the engine lug after the 2-3 upshift could have possibly improved gas mileage. If you accelerate from a standstill & are going to drive thru a school zone for the next 300 miles straight w/o varying speed perhaps :rolleyes: ... but all that BS seems to do is, create a need to put your foot FARTHER into it, during most normal situations to keep the acceleration at the same pace before the shift. Now your just having to dump more fuel back into the equation ... so it seems pointless to me.

[michburt]

I have an 04. I went with the Superchip tuner. Changes the tranny shift points. Crisper.

Mike

[MikesMerc]

I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that '04s do not accept a chip, one has to reprogram instead?

All 04's have the service port which are functional from the factory. This has been confirmed.

Matt...as everyone has said a chip or tuner will cure what ails ya. Reprogrammed shift points and TC lock up make a HUGE difference.

The flip chip is more convenient...the tuner is nice cause you don't have to mess with the PCM at all.

Your choice.

[fastblackmerc]

I got my programmer/flasher from Dennis Reinhart. Can store 3 "tunes" and the factory program. Since I've done a partial stage 1 (underdrive pulleys, colder stat & plugs and JLT intake), I had Dennis load a program for the mods and also adjust the trans line pressure which in turn provides for much firmer shifts. I plan on 4.10 gears in the not to distant future, there is a a tune for that also (speedo correction). I'd go for the prograammer/flasher....

[Matt In Detroit]

With the programmer, you plug it in and reflash, then remove it right? or does the programmer stay in/on the vehicle. Ive never seen this mentioned. Im new to this so how does it go? something like....

Get programmer with new performance flashes in it, connect to vehicle, store stock program, flash new one into PCM. Enjoy?

If i have a programmer could i flash as many Marauders as i want? Doesnt seem to be much sharing of this stuff.. I dont see anyone saying, "ive got a programmer, come on over and for a case of beer ill hook you up"

On another note, when I was on lunch today I found that it is much more tolerable driving around with the O/D turned off.

[MainEngDwarf]

Matt,
The first time you use the programmer it becomes VIN locked to that specific vehicle, sorry no shareing allowed :confused:

[RF Overlord]

With the programmer, you plug it in and reflash, then remove it right? Correct.

If i have a programmer could i flash as many Marauders as i want? No, the tuner can only be used on one vehicle at a time...if you want to use it on another vehicle, you have to load your stock program back into your PCM...you CAN, however, use the tuner to read and clear CEL codes on as many vehicles as you like...

On another note, when I was on lunch today I found that it is much more tolerable driving around with the O/D turned off.Dennis or Lidio can program your O/D to stay off until whatever speed you tell them you want.

[jgc61sr2002]

With the programmer, you plug it in and reflash, then remove it right? or does the programmer stay in/on the vehicle. Ive never seen this mentioned. Im new to this so how does it go? something like....

Get programmer with new performance flashes in it, connect to vehicle, store stock program, flash new one into PCM. Enjoy?

If i have a programmer could i flash as many Marauders as i want? Doesnt seem to be much sharing of this stuff.. I dont see anyone saying, "ive got a programmer, come on over and for a case of beer ill hook you up"

On another note, when I was on lunch today I found that it is much more tolerable driving around with the O/D turned off.

If you could share it that would defeat sales.

[Krytin]

You mentioned "the wife's car" How you drive it affects how it shifts, there is a certain amount of learning the PCM does based on how you drive it...drive it hard.

Another free thing you can do is take it to dealer complaint about the shifting...there are programming upgrades available to improve shifting at the dealer.

And of course...the best solution has already been suggested above.:D
All very true! My car is still running w/out chip or flash tune & the shift points are just fine for me! Remember to keep the OD off unless you are on an extended highway cruise<

[Mad4Macs]

Remember... it's not just the "shift points". What "drove" me to Lidio was the #$@%@ friggin torque converter locking and unlocking and making me wish I drove a stick-shift everytime I pulled away from a light.
Get reprogrammed and prosper.

[HwyCruiser]

Jeez, I don't even remember what my MM drove like when it was stock but I'm loving it now.

The handheld tuner has been very useful because I've had three updates so far, one for cold-weather idle surging, one to correct the TC lockup values after installing the PI 3k stall torque converter, and one to adjust the OD shifting points. With the PC tuner cable, updating flashs via email is a breeze.

DR has been a pleasure to work with and I would recommend his tune and services to anyone. It was proven during the MVII dyno-tuning session that I was already getting the most HP gains with his tuner right out of the box.

- JD

[rayjay]

I have a completly stock '04 and think the shift points are pretty lousy. I also heard about the gas guzzler problem. Here's my questions about the tuner. Mine is my every day driver and I need to be able to drive it in the winter her in the Chicago area. How does it effect winter driving? How about gas mileage? I've heard some say it helped and some say it hurt.
Lou, I lost some mileage with the Lidio chip I have for my 04 DTR. IMHO driveability in the winter will be worse with the chip in. I pulled mine for the winter. We have far too many snowy road days here.

[Lou]

Lou, I lost some mileage with the Lidio chip I have for my 04 DTR. IMHO driveability in the winter will be worse with the chip in. I pulled mine for the winter. We have far too many snowy road days here.

That's what I wa afraid of, poorer winter drivability. Now if I can easily
go back and forth that might be worth it. Not too worrried about the milage if it makes a vast improvement in shift points.

[RF Overlord]

That's what I wa afraid of, poorer winter drivability. Not too worrried about the milage if it makes a vast improvement in shift points.

Lou, I don't mean to speak for rayjay, but I think (hope) he meant that the additional power the chip/tuner provides might make driving under adverse (slippery) conditions more problematic due to lack of traction, not due to actual "driveability issues" like hard starting, poor idle, loss of power, bad gas mileage, etc. A good tune, whether it comes from a chip or the hand-help tuner, should not have any of those issues. Last winter, we experienced unusually cold conditions for our area (one day it never got above -4°F) and the Blackbird had no driveability issues at all.

You WILL see "a vast improvement in shift points"... :D

[rayjay]

Lou, I don't mean to speak for rayjay, but I think (hope) he meant that the additional power the chip/tuner provides might make driving under adverse (slippery) conditions more problematic due to lack of traction, not due to actual "driveability issues" like hard starting, poor idle, loss of power, bad gas mileage, etc. A good tune, whether it comes from a chip or the hand-help tuner, should not have any of those issues. Last winter, we experienced unusually cold conditions for our area (one day it never got above -4°F) and the Blackbird had no driveability issues at all.

You WILL see "a vast improvement in shift points"... :D
Thanks RF, thats exactly what I was trying to say.

[Lou]

Lou, I don't mean to speak for rayjay, but I think (hope) he meant that the additional power the chip/tuner provides might make driving under adverse (slippery) conditions more problematic due to lack of traction, not due to actual "driveability issues" like hard starting, poor idle, loss of power, bad gas mileage, etc. A good tune, whether it comes from a chip or the hand-help tuner, should not have any of those issues. Last winter, we experienced unusually cold conditions for our area (one day it never got above -4°F) and the Blackbird had no driveability issues at all.

You WILL see "a vast improvement in shift points"... :D
I wasn't thinking so much baout hard starting etc. but more about driving in snow with even more power than a stock MM with stock tires. One other question; what happens if I change or disconnect the battery? Do I lose the tune and it goes back to the factory program or does the module retain the last loaded program?
:help:

[RF Overlord]

what happens if I change or disconnect the battery? Do I lose the tune and it goes back to the factory program or does the module retain the last loaded program?

Have no fear...disconnecting the battery won't hurt a thing...you'll only lose your radio stations...

[Bradley G]

Or a lousy shift schedule if you get caught in Heavy traffic:burnout: :D

Bradley G


Have no fear...disconnecting the battery won't hurt a thing...you'll only lose your radio stations...