Upgrading factory Sub

[Digital Man]

Its been asked before, I'm sure but I want some fresh opinions.

I want to upgrade the factory sub ('04 MM BB). Do I need to consider upgrading anything else, and/or what one should I be looking at?

I don't need earth shaking bass, :bounce:but anything has to be better then the factory one. I also, want to be rid of the vibration on the panel in the back.

Thanks!

[BruteForce]

Search function is your friend. :)

[MENINBLK]

There are a lot of opinions on this...

Do a search and you'll see what I mean.

What you'll REALLY NEED TO DO is to LISTEN to a lot of audio systems
until you get the one that SOUNDS sweetest to you.

I've spoken to a lot of the guys over at Crutchfield.
I've been out to Virginia, to train them on some products
and got to talk to them first hand about what components they've listened to
and what sounds good to them.

There are a few speakers that they share in taste with me, and they claim that the Kenwood products are the warmest sounding drivers.
This is an opinion that I share with them, but may not be true for you.

If you are planning on listening to various types of music, or just like to listen to a particular Genre of music,
take the time to tailor the audio system to the type of music you like.

Go LISTEN to what other Marauder owners in you area may have installed,
and LISTEN to the sounds of the instruments and the Vocals.
Ask them if they would mind playing your favorite CD, and see if you could live with the audio their system produces,
or are you looking for a different tonal quality than what they have...

Each one of us has different audio tastes. To find your own will take a lot of sampling !!!

ENJOY YOURSELF while you are researching !
You won't be disappointed in your final decision, even if it takes longer than you originally planned.

[Rider90]

agreed, do a lot of research on the subwoofer. Join and browse forums, etc... and see what other people have to say on the brand/design. I saved up (understatement) and I've never regretted it. :beer:

[the_pack_rat]

The above advice is pretty much on target, but for what it is worth -

In terms of speakers - I've always liked Infinity stuff(many others here like & have used them in a MM as well).

I replaced the factory junk in my MM with the 6802CF's & also have the same model speaker in a 6x9 size in the rear deck of my Toro.

Not too many same size "no mod - drop in" choices when it comes to the factory 6.5 inch subwoofer. Someone used something from Kenwood IIRC,(MI2QWK4U - Dave ?), but when I tried to order one months back to replace the 6.5 inch sub in my factory JBL equipped Town Car ... I was told they were discontinued. I had bought someone from here's MM take out sub ... & was going to use that in the Town Car ... but then I found this -

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/c-10101/s-10101/p-221618/mediaCode-ZX/appId-385854

Pyramid stuff is by NO means anything to write home about ... but after living with it for awhile ... that sub(the Pyramid) sounds better than the original paper sub it replaced(even when it was still functioning fine).

On the MM - I need to go "back in" the rear shelf so to speak, to fix the typical rattle(didn't really rattle before when the sub was muffled) & I want to see if I can get some ETC speaker baffles to work in there as well. Maybe I'll throw some Dynomat into the equation too .. & I will order another one of these Pyramid subs to replace the factory one as well, as I am confident the sound quality will be NO less than what it is now - most likely will sound better. At the very least - it will stand up to the sun & heat better than the paper one will.

My .02

Eric

[FordNut]

I had a hard time finding woofers (mid-bass) instead of full range speakers in 6.5" but finally found that MB Quart has them. Perfect fit, no mods to enclosure needed. Sounds good so far, but I've only had the opportunity to listen to it about 30 minutes or so.

[QWK SVT]

I had a hard time finding woofers (mid-bass) instead of full range speakers in 6.5" but finally found that MB Quart has them. Perfect fit, no mods to enclosure needed. Sounds good so far, but I've only had the opportunity to listen to it about 30 minutes or so.
Happen to know the part number? Did you have to buy a pair, or were you able to buy just one?

[hdwrench]

interested in learning more myself... i have done a search previously found not a lot of useful info, mostly about removing the cutout..


i have already bought an amp and speakers to replace stock...

unsure what to do about the sub... i know jack squat about stereos... all i know is my pc has more bass than my car... need to upgrade the sub :)

[FordNut]

Happen to know the part number? Did you have to buy a pair, or were you able to buy just one?
Don't have it handy right now, will get the model number for you later. I had to get a full set of 2 woofers, 2 tweeters, 2 crossovers. The tweeters and crossovers are going in the front doors, one of the woofers went in the sub enclosure, and I still have 1 woofer. I have a couple of members who get first dibs on it, if they don't want it I'll offer it for sale.

[rayjay]

Pyramid stuff is by NO means anything to write home about ... but after living with it for awhile ... that sub(the Pyramid) sounds better than the original paper sub it replaced(even when it was still functioning fine

packrat, is the Pyramid sub you posted the link to a "drop in" for the Marauder? For $13 its a steal if actually improve the sound.

[the fat bastid]

Jl makes a 6.5" mid-woofer for both infinite baffle(xr650-cw) and baffled(6w0).
they make really good subs so i hope thier mids will be just as good.
the pyramid will sound better then stock but its not something i'd admit to having in my car. :D

[QWK SVT]

Jl makes a 6.5" mid-woofer for both infinite baffle(xr650-cw) and baffled(6w0).
they make really good subs so i hope thier mids will be just as good.
the pyramid will sound better then stock but its not something i'd admit to having in my car. :D
The 6W0 might be a good choice, if not pricey. It needs <.20 cubic feet, so it should be OK, in the factory enclosure. The advertised frequency response goes down to 37Hz... I think there may be something else out there, with better performance to price ratio.

While just as pricey, this componant set is what i've been debating. Yeah, it gives you a lower frequency response at 30Hz, so (in theory) should provide a little more bass. I'm thinking about a set, so that the second could find it's way into the truck - which desperately needs more bass, but I need every ounce of space I can keep...
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-qWpbHiV3EdK/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=410&I=113KFCXR71

[FordNut]

The JL Audio speakers I found specs on would not fit the OEM enclosure without mods.

The MB Quart system I got was the RSD216. They also have many other choices, but they're rather expensive and I felt that if I spent a lot of $$ on speakers I would feel inclined to upgrade the amps, then the head unit, and so on (proud of myself for keeping this project from snowballing out of control). The MB Quart system I got is discontinued last year's model, I got a good deal at closeout price from onlinecarstereo.com

[MENINBLK]

How about these subs ???

Audiobahn AMD60Q 6.5 Mid Bass Drivers Speakers NEW PAIR - Frequency Response: 30Hz - 5kHz (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5739074247&fromMakeTrack=true)

Tang Band w6-1139sc Speaker Pair - Frequency range: 35-800 Hz (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32819&item=5738855574&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

Alpine SPX-17MB Type X 6 1/2 Mid Bass Kit - Frequency Response: 30Hz - 4kHz (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32819&item=5737765266&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

[FordNut]

Had an opportunity to test drive the MB Quart woofer. Not good. Adjust bass for low volume levels and the woofer distorts at high volume. Adjust at high volume and it's muffled when you turn it down. Got the Infinity 6000 CS system to try next.

[shakes_26]

I've been impressed with the Audiobahn series, not an expert but they hit hard and were clean. I just ordered a pair, also got a 2" port to add to the factory enclosure. If it sounds good, I'll sell off the second one on the parts forum...more to follow.




Had an opportunity to test drive the MB Quart woofer. Not good. Adjust bass for low volume levels and the woofer distorts at high volume. Adjust at high volume and it's muffled when you turn it down. Got the Infinity 6000 CS system to try next.

[FordNut]

Had an opportunity to test drive the MB Quart woofer. Not good. Adjust bass for low volume levels and the woofer distorts at high volume. Adjust at high volume and it's muffled when you turn it down. Got the Infinity 6000 CS system to try next.
Now that's more like it! George Thorogood sounding BAD TO THE BONE

[the_pack_rat]

packrat, is the Pyramid sub you posted the link to a "drop in" for the Marauder? For $13 its a steal if actually improve the sound.

===============

I haven't done/bought one for the MM yet ... but it was pretty much a drop in for the Town Cars factory enclosure.(takes the same 6.5 size). I_may_ have had to enlarge the mouning holes in the outer frame of the sub itself a smidgen(not lined up a perfect 100%) ... but it was minor. For the most part it's was a drop in.

Eric

[Cobra25]

Whats wrong with the Factory one ?

[hdwrench]

find myself sayin "is this thing on?"

[QWK SVT]

Whats wrong with the Factory one ?
Uhh... My primary problem with it - It's supposed to be a subwoofer, but it doesn't really add any bass, just a buncha farting noises :rolleyes:

[wchain]

The system I took out of the CVPI will go in a different box in the MM.

2 JL Audio 10W6DV2 Subs with an Alpine V12 1000W Amp, MB quart speakers and Macs DVD!

[ckadiddle]

I was researchng this subject recently and ran across the Infinity Basslink. Has its own amp built in, and its own enclosure. Have not seen or heard one in person yet though. I am not brave enough to try and install one myself though. :) Would have to add the cost of an install.

[Digital Man]

Whats wrong with the Factory one ?
yeah, the factory one doesn't really seem to do much. :dunno:

So, do i have to make sure the size of the sub is 6.5in? Nothing else will fit? I suppose with some R&D.

[rookie1]

unless you feel obligated to retain the factory enclosure set up. Toss it out entirely, retain the amp and bolt one of these to the hole in the rear deck. they will tentuple your bass output. They are both "free air" design woofers requiring no enclosure.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2D45e6SumIC/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=67500&I=2063C84

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18802&item=5738828129&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[QWK SVT]

yeah, the factory one doesn't really seem to do much. :dunno:

So, do i have to make sure the size of the sub is 6.5in? Nothing else will fit? I suppose with some R&D.
Yes, but be careful - there are regular 6.5" units, and "oversized" ones. IIRC, some options required modification (cutting, heating and bending plastic), to make the stock enclosure. It's pretty easy to pull the enclosure out - you could just take it into a store, and see what fits.

rookie1 - I'm pretty sure the 8" won't fit in the stock hole, without widening it... Correct?

[rayjay]

yeah, the factory one doesn't really seem to do much. :dunno:

So, do i have to make sure the size of the sub is 6.5in? Nothing else will fit? I suppose with some R&D.
Actually, mine quit one day (loose wire) and it wasn't very long before I noticed it wasn't working. It does make a difference, you just can't hear the bass three blocks away.

[Digital Man]

Actually, mine quit one day (loose wire) and it wasn't very long before I noticed it wasn't working. It does make a difference, you just can't hear the bass three blocks away.
Your what? Your factory sub? I don't need, nor want, a sub I can hear three blocks away. Its just that my 98 Mailbu had more freak'n bass then my Marauder and thats supposed to be a premium sound system. In fact my 90' Super Coupe which still has the stock system sounds better.

[Eric91Z]

I would say the factory stereo in the MM was one of the biggest downfalls when I had it for the weekend test drive. The following weekend I got to test drive my friend's 300C and that system rocks compared to the MM. Shoot, even the stock setup in my Accord sound better than the Marauder.

I am working on upgrading the system in the Accord with the following:

JL Audio or Diamond 6 1/2" seperates for the front
Matched set for above for the 6 1/2" rear
3 10" JL Audio W0's in JL Audio box
Either 1 5-way Amp or 2 seperate, dedicated amps

Why upgrade the Accord when I plan on getting a Marauder in the future? Because I spend 2+ hours a day in my car for about 500 miles per week and want some good tunes to listen to. Why 3 10" subs? Because the price was little more than the other setups I looked at. I am more about Sound Quality than SPL, and I think this setup will give that to me with seperate bass gain control. And, lastly, the 3 10" JL Audio sub box will transfer quite nicely to the trunk of the Marauder when I pick one up. That and the Amp. Then replace the factory speakers and enjoy.

I need my music!!!

[shakes_26]

Well I did a little experimenting this weekend. First, the Audibahn series 6.5" midbass drivers will not fit our enclosure, due to the extremely large base/magnet, it wont sit right into the enclsoure due to the cutout for the spare tire.

I have a 300A with full size spare, assume the 300B kept the same sub enclosure, even though they got the mini-me of spare tires. Hey while your in there doing all this... check your tire pressure on the spare, I found a whopping 14psi in mine!

Anyway your options are a.) a brand other than audiobahn (good product no direct fit). b.) Modify the ring above the sub enclosure and package tray/ rear shelf to allow the fit. c.) simply add a 2" diameter port tube, about 4" long (cost $5) to the sub enclosure.

I performed option c.) for now. Whoaaa, did it make a difference. Not rattle the trunk difference, not what I was aiming for, but it got the bass right where I wanted it. You can feel it in the back of the seat, nice. With the factory sub! Make sure to repalce the foam and the sound deadener material inside the sub enclosure.

So my advice save yoru $$ get the port tube, a 2" holesaw, 12mm socket/ratchet combo, climb in the trunk and get-r-dun!

:burnout::burnout::burnout:

[Svashtar]

Well I did a little experimenting this weekend. First, the Audibahn series 6.5" midbass drivers will not fit our enclosure, due to the extremely large base/magnet, it wont sit right into the enclsoure due to the cutout for the spare tire.

I have a 300A with full size spare, assume the 300B kept the same sub enclosure, even though they got the mini-me of spare tires. Hey while your in there doing all this... check your tire pressure on the spare, I found a whopping 14psi in mine!

Anyway your options are a.) a brand other than audiobahn (good product no direct fit). b.) Modify the ring above the sub enclosure and package tray/ rear shelf to allow the fit. c.) simply add a 2" diameter port tube, about 4" long (cost $5) to the sub enclosure.

I performed option c.) for now. Whoaaa, did it make a difference. Not rattle the trunk difference, not what I was aiming for, but it got the bass right where I wanted it. You can feel it in the back of the seat, nice. With the factory sub! Make sure to repalce the foam and the sound deadener material inside the sub enclosure.

So my advice save yoru $$ get the port tube, a 2" holesaw, 12mm socket/ratchet combo, climb in the trunk and get-r-dun!

:burnout::burnout::burnout: Shakes, this sounds perfect for me! I love simple (and cheap!) improvements. My stock system sounds fine to my untrained ears, EXCEPT for the rear bass, so I'd like to try this. I have the tools. Where do I get the tube, and where exactly do I drill? Do I need to unmount the sub assembly from underneath the trunk lid area?

Thanks very much for any information.

Regards,

Norm

[haenerhotrod]

I also would like the info on were to drill, and were to get the parts. My 04 DTR sounds terrible. Thanks

[merc]

Wow, another sub woofer post. I started the process of upgrading my sub about two years ago. I argued about sub woofers and mid bass drivers. If you are going to spend any money think about your decision and upgrade path. The truth about the situation is that, you need to replace the sub woofer, factory amp, and enclosure. Yes, I know that sounds expensive, but it’s worth your time and money. I tried replacing the sub woofer as a stand-alone upgrade. The major problem with that design is the sort comings of the O.E.M amp and vibration of the enclosure. I admit that the bass response was better, but something was missing. Next I upgraded the amp and found one that would fit the location of the factory amp. It looked sweet, better sound, but muddy low-end bass and lots of rear deck vibration. I lived with this solution for about a year. I adjusted the bass levels, padded the rear deck, and still was not satisfied. Then I begin to study the problem and come to this conclusion.

The factory sub-woofer enclosure creates odd harmonics when driven with any performance aftermarket sub. The woofer needs to be lowered approximately 1-2 inches from the deck to decrease distortion levels between 80-20 Hz. You could spend money in using dynamat, but most people will not go through that trouble or extra expense. A custom enclosure would offer a wider selection of drivers, I choose a JL 10” driver. A 6-inch sub woofer driver is like going deer hunting with a 22-rim fire. It can be done, but a larger caliber round would be more effective.

The factory amp is, how can I put this, ok, JUNK. Replace this component in your design concept. This will require you to run dedicated wires to your battery terminal and some other electronic goodies. But once this is done you have the building blocks for you new stereo system. Without upgrading the amp you are wasting your time.

[Brutus]

Wow, another sub woofer post. I started the process of upgrading my sub about two years ago. I argued about sub woofers and mid bass drivers. If you are going to spend any money think about your decision and upgrade path. The truth about the situation is that, you need to replace the sub woofer, factory amp, and enclosure. Yes, I know that sounds expensive, but it’s worth your time and money. I tried replacing the sub woofer as a stand-alone upgrade. The major problem with that design is the sort comings of the O.E.M amp and vibration of the enclosure. I admit that the bass response was better, but something was missing. Next I upgraded the amp and found one that would fit the location of the factory amp. It looked sweet, better sound, but muddy low-end bass and lots of rear deck vibration. I lived with this solution for about a year. I adjusted the bass levels, padded the rear deck, and still was not satisfied. Then I begin to study the problem and come to this conclusion.

The factory sub-woofer enclosure creates odd harmonics when driven with any performance aftermarket sub. The woofer needs to be lowered approximately 1-2 inches from the deck to decrease distortion levels between 80-20 Hz. You could spend money in using dynomat, but most people will not go through that trouble or extra expense. A custom enclosure would offer a wider selection of drivers, I choose a JL 10” driver. A 6-inch sub woofer driver is like going deer hunting with a 22-rim fire. It can be done, but a larger caliber round would be more effective.

The factory amp is, how can I put this, ok, JUNK. Replace this component in your design concept. This will require you to run dedicated wires to you battery terminal and some other electronic goodies. But once this is done you have the building blocks for you new stereo system. Without upgrading the amp you are wasting your time.
How about seeing if you can make the next CAM meet? I would like to see your setup. I just recently acquired a sub and amp.

[merc]

How about seeing if you can make the next CAM meet? I would like to see your setup. I just recently acquired a sub and amp.

Sure, I would love to see the Cammers. You will really like my custom Sub Box. It bolts up directly to the factory mounts and the amp is counseled behind the enclosure. The box was designed to be easily removed for drag events. :beer:

[Joe Walsh]

Me too!
I definitely want to see your custom Subwoofer set-up....I hate how the OEM box WASTES the entire left side of the trunk shelf. I also want to see how you integrated the new Subwoofer amp into the factory stereo system.

[valkyrie]

Its been asked before, I'm sure but I want some fresh opinions.

I want to upgrade the factory sub ('04 MM BB). Do I need to consider upgrading anything else, and/or what one should I be looking at?

I don't need earth shaking bass, :bounce:but anything has to be better then the factory one. I also, want to be rid of the vibration on the panel in the back.

Thanks!

I am just going to put in a 200W Bazooka for the time being.

[shakes_26]

Sure, I would love to see the Cammers. You will really like my custom Sub Box. It bolts up directly to the factory mounts and the amp is counseled behind the enclosure. The box was designed to be easily removed for drag events. :beer:
can you post some pics of the box you created?

[merc]

As soon as I get home I will post some digital pictures of the enclosure and location. Also I found this website helpful in designing my box.

http://www.radiomods.co.nz/speakerboxcalc.html

[merc]

Me too!
I definitely want to see your custom Subwoofer set-up....I hate how the OEM box WASTES the entire left side of the trunk shelf. I also want to see how you integrated the new Subwoofer amp into the factory stereo system.

One of the key factors to connecting a aftermarket amp is to use a line level output Converter. I used something like AudioLink PowerLink II.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-0Z0jefnr0wF/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=101PL2&search=line+level

The next issues are how to feed the amp. I used a Monster Cable kit very similar to this one.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-0Z0jefnr0wF/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=711&I=211PS10R

Remember, when selecting a amp, shoot for the one that can be bridged mono or is already a mono amp with built-in electronic crossovers and adjustable signal levels. 150 RMS power is a good starting point depending on your sub-woofer. I would shop for the woofers first then identify the required amp. Most people get this process back-ass-wards.

To find my power range I used the JL link below for my JL 10W0 sub. My sweet point was 125 watts. That fits my budget for cost and performance.

http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/RP_Chart.html

[merc]

can you post some pics of the box you created?

Picture 1 - Monster Battery terminals with covers
Picture 2 - Sub Woofer enclosure
Picture 3 - In line fuse, must be removed before removing amp and enclosure
Picture 4 - Rear amp and the space between the rear seat.
Picture 5 - OEM enclosure with Rockford sub woofer

[Svashtar]

I don't know, I guess I am just more easily pleased than some of you guys!? I removed the stupid foam insert in the sub, installed the 4" long by 2" port from Crutchfield as desribed by shakes, and my stereo sounds great. The only problem that the system ever had was lousy bass response in the sub, and that is fixed now, and it cost me about five bucks and an hour of my time.

I am not interested in competing in blow-out-the-windows bass booming contests with the local gang-bangers, and don't make a habit of driving around with my windows down and the trunk open to blast strangers with my stereo, so didn't see the need to spend any more money on it. (-:

Every person who has ridden in my car says the standard Audiophile system sounds great after the tweaks I did, but maybe I'm just not enough of an audio expert to know what sounds good. (?) :) The only change I have ever considered making is upgrading the 4 factory speakers, as Dennis recommended, but right now that is very low on my list of mods.

I do think that the standard radio sounds like crap, but that is because the car doesn't have an external antenna IMO. (CD's sounds great.) I would like to get either an aftermarket antenna, or maybe the satellite radio so that the car's external lines wouldn't be messed up as they would with an antenna.

Tnx,

Norm