highway rpm's with the gear change

[BigBadMerc]

Just wanted to know what rpm's you guys with the 4.10's are turning at highway speeds ie. 55- 60mph. I am going to have gears installed next month but was told 4.10's are too much that 3.73's were a better choice.

[RF Overlord]

Welcome, BigBad....

I don't have the 4.10s yet, but I've heard it raises the RPM by about 325 or so...others will chime in, here.

I want to know about your Diablo Sport chip...how much $, how much improvement, etc...most of us have Dennis Reinhart chips...did you need to change the plugs and 'stat with the Diablo?

[BigBadMerc]

The Diablo was $255, I didn't have to change plugs or thermostat, just run high octane gas, but I did that already. Go to diablo's website and see the gains for yourself, on a rear wheel dyno it made a little better than 60hp gain, but if you look, the gain is in the bottom and mid not the top, top end looked more like 20 or so. and it also smoothed out the flat spot at around 4000rpm, and I was happy about that. It also made the shift points 500 rpm higher and fuel cutoff is at 7000rpm, and their is no more 117mph limiter either. Overall I am very happy with it. And you could tell the power improvement imediately without having to go to wide open throttle to notice.

[Mark McQuaide]

What's the web address for Diablo?

[Pantherman]

The math is very simple. divide 4.10 by 3.55. That gives you 1.155. Multiply 1.155 times any present (3.55 Axle) rpm to get the new rpm with a 4.10 axle. This also means that for any given engine rpm, you will have about 15.5% more torque available at the rear wheels.

[BigMerc]

I put the 4:10 gears in last week and I'll tell you the drivability is fine, the midrange power band is much better and because we have 18 inch wheels it probably is equal to a 3:91 or something. I don't think the 3:73 gears will make you happy. I was hesitant to go 4:10 but the guys that have them all agree it helps the car quite a bit and does not take away from the cruising aspect. I highly recomend the gear change now that I have done it myself.

[SergntMac]

I posted some RPM stuff a while back, so have a few others. Maybe you could try a search from the home page?

IMHO, you were told wrong about the 4:10, but honestly, this is really a matter of your personal preferrences. You may be pleased with a 3:73, but others here have tried them, and moved up to 4:10 anyway. The 8.8 housing can take up to 4:33, and that is an option for those who prefer performance over overall drivability. However, the 4:10s seem to be the sweet spot between economy, and performance. I have not experienced any remarkable loss of MGP, and in some conditions, that has improved. Yes, moving up to 4:10 alone will have it's penalties, but they are not severe, average of 500-600 RPM over the 3:55, I believe. As part of a performance profile, (Reinhart chip, gears, stat and plugs), the program works really sweet. I won't speculate over how well the 4:10 benefits the Diablo chip, I don't know it's specs. IMHO.

[cutt]

wheres the website?

[prchrman]

www.motorhaven.com-----I may be wrong

[RF Overlord]

www.diablosport.com

[SergntMac]

Went to that www.motorhaven.com site and read all the notes. I believe the Diablo is someone's aftermarket name for the the same Delta chip Reinhart sells us. Same features, same results, same options. Not the same price, I paid Reinhart 325.00 for a two stage chip with on/off octane switch. Key lock and LED were options, and are plug-in add-ons down the road.

Knowing this, I'm comfortable in suggesting that you consider the 4:10s over the 3:55s.

[LincMercLover]

So, is this Diablo chip cheaper?

[RF Overlord]

LML: see BigBadMerc's answer to my questions, 3rd post from the top...

[LincMercLover]

Yah, but I'm asking in retrospect to the DR chip...

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by BigBadMerc
The Diablo was $255, I didn't have to change plugs or thermostat, just run high octane gas,

Sorry, I just got it...I thought you already had a chip...Dennis's are about $325...

[LincMercLover]

And that's JUST for DR chip, no plugs/stat/gears...? What about performance wise? Better, worse, same?

[TAF]

If it REALLY is a 60hp gain...then it's 3 times better at 60% of the cost. BUT....I don't know if the gain is true....

I'll stick with Dennis' chip unless proven otherwise...

[RF Overlord]

yah...I think I paid like $370 something for the chip, plugs, and 'stat (inc. shipping)...the gears are something like $180 more...

As far as differences, I have no experience with any chips but Dennis's...BigBadMerc's answer said they claim 60 HP increase, but I find that a little hard to believe, especially with no change of plugs or thermostat...hell, if it makes THAT big a difference, who needs 4.10s?
I'd be willing to bet the Diablo Sport chip is no better than the DR chip in actual use...

[LincMercLover]

Well BigMerc, got the sheets?

[SergntMac]

Ah...may I add...please?

I visited a number of sites today, all offering a "something" Delta chip.

One has to be careful in reading the detail on these sites. It's not only what they tell you, but also what they do not say. One site boasted a large HP and TQ gain, but twisting through the detail tells us that the test vehicle was a diesel pick-up truck. Another cited likewise benefits, but promising better "towing" performance.

Sifting through that nonsense, the accurate report I could find is more consistent with what Reinhart has promised me. So, I conclude, for my own purposes, that the Delta Chip, under anyone's added banner, is what we get, and what works best in our MM application. I also conclude that Reinhart, is "on our side" in this.

I paid 325., got a chip with a switch and many possibilities. Yeah, maybe I paid a few dollar more than I could have, but I feel I've made my best investment too.

I got a connection to a guy who's driving his LM like he stole it. A guy who answers his phone when I call. A guy who tells me the straight dope on stuff, like drive shafts and torque converters, anything, as long as I don't ask stupid questions twice. A guy who is working on MMs everyday, and knows the car I'm living with. He knows enough to suggest more "fine tunes" with plugs and stat, and he's also a guy who promises a full money back guarantee if not satisfied, NQA, and handles warranty claims (on his chip) the same way. He says he's had only two come back, and he replaced both, for the cost of the shipping charge.

Yeah, I maybe spent more that I could have, but I did so out of trust and respect for a guy who's watching out for my back too. When I worked for Mr. Norm's GS Dodge, I took a lot of phone calls from guys who wanted to know the bottom line. I told them the truth, in a voice that sounds a lot like Dennis in my ear.

Like I've said about other mods here, cheaper isn't always better. Best isn't always better, in the long run. Boast needs to be defined, and absorbed accordingly. So, I gotta go with the guy who will be there when I need him, a guy who answers his phone.

People who "have been there and done that" rate high with me. Whether they are tuners, wrenches, cops, firemen, lawyers, or doctors, I want to talk with the guy who walked my beat before I do anything.

Y'all decide for yourselves, be safe.

SergntMac@aol.com for rebuts...



PS. Sorry for my rant, but my meds don't affect my honesty.

[MassMarauder]

Mac - You are da man!! :rock:
BTW, My Chip, gear pkg will arrive tommorrow! :banana:

[RF Overlord]

Leave it to SergntMac to sum it up and put everything in perspective...in his own lovable (albeit long-winded) style... ;)

J/K, Sarge...Sarge...Sarge?! PUT DOWN THE .44 Magnum, SARGE!!!!

:uzi: :help:

[BigMerc]

Uuuuh sarge that would be "Bigbadmerc do you have the sheets", not bigmerc im not bad at all

[BigMerc]

Ooops I got it wrong, that would be Lincmerclover not the sarge sorry sarge

[LincMercLover]

Sorry, me being lazy... I didn't even know we had just a BigMerc. That was intended for BigBADMerc.

[BigBadMerc]

First, lets start off by saying I wasn't trashing anybody's chip or their choice of mods to their car,and if you guys are happy with Rienhart's chip good for you. Sounds like he is nice guy and takes good care of his customers. As for "the sheets" go to www.pdqperformance.com click on "latest news" and then scroll down you will then be rewarded with "the sheets". It will say, new Mercury Marauder chip over 60hp to the rear wheels, the dyno chart is posted. You can then see that like I said earlier, that most of the power is made at low and mid rpms and is a little more than 20hp at WOT, however the chart does show where the 60hp gain is at and if you will notice the flat spot at little more than 4000rpm gives way to an even greater gain over stock, this low and mid horsepower gain is immediately felt under normal driving. The chip did not effect the drivability of the car or the fuel mileage. And again back to my question that I posted, at say 55 or 60 mph what does the tack say??

[Murader03]

Originally posted by BigBadMerc
Just wanted to know what rpm's you guys with the 4.10's are turning at highway speeds ie. 55- 60mph. I am going to have gears installed next month but was told 4.10's are too much that 3.73's were a better choice.

Merc...I posted a thread titled "here you go" on 1/22/03. In it I posted different speeds and rpm's with 4.10's iinstalled. The speed was verified with a hand help GPS. The tack reading are subject to your eye vs my eye as to the "exact" rpm figure. I don't think you'll be happy with the 3.73's!

[SergntMac]

Sorry, BBM, wasn't my intent to focus on anything you said, I was just addding things up in my own little way.

That dyno sheet you point to confuses me, one chart for HP, the other TQ, but which is which? I suppose it doesn't matter much, which ever is which, the performance seen on this sheet is consistent with the results from a Reinhart chip, give or take here and there. I also suspect that it's a eddy-current dyno, which is known for wide tolerances. Makes you wonder where they started out, if they can claim 60 HP gain at the rear wheels. My results are in my sig.

[RF Overlord]

Also please note that they mis-spelled Marauder FOUR times in a row in their little article... (Maurader)... :shake: :down:

[BigBadMerc]

Yeah, I did notice they mispelled marauder a few times, but there is a couple of people on this forum that have it mispelled in thier auto signature too, go figure. SergntMac, I looked at the dyno chart again and if you look at the side of the chart it says STD horsepower figure, I didn't see a chart for torque anywhere, the lower line was the stock power curve and the upper one was after the chip. I called and ask that same question before I ordered the chip. It was also a bone stock Marauder with no mods whatsoever. And the dyno was the one where you drive on top of it and has a drum under the rear tires not sure of the specific term I always heard a rear wheel dyno, but apparently there are several types. I haven't taken mine to a drag strip but the highway patrol has a quarter mile and an eighth of a mile marked off below my house that they use the calibrate VASCAR with. In the eighth I got a flat 85mph at the line with a soft launch, meaning I didn't hold against the torque converter. I did however shift manually. My friend has a new Mach 1 and we both the the same mph in the eighth, though I am absolutely sure that her car does it a lot quicker, and it is a five speed. And no it's not the driver that can't get more from the mach 1, I used to drag race a 12 sec stang just two years ago and gave it up due to fatherhood, I'd like to live to see my child growup.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by BigBadMerc
the lower line was the stock power curve and the upper one was after the chip. I called and ask that same question before I ordered the chip. It was also a bone stock Marauder with no mods whatsoever.


Just offhand, I did a few calculations based on that chart. Of course, there is the issue of the possible inaccuracy of the dyno itself, so I'll just present the numbers as I calculated them.

Looking at the stock MM peak torque of 318 lb-ft at 4250 RPM, if we take a very aggressive loss of 20% along the drivetrain (I say aggressive, because modern automatic drivetrains *should* have reduced this loss to perhaps 15% or less), that leaves us with supposedly 254 lb-ft at that RPM, at the rear wheels. The dyno chart in question shows around 222 lb-ft. at 4250 RPM.

Looking up to the hp peak of 302 at 5750... well, we can't see it, they didn't run the car that high. However, judging by the curve's behavior, it *should* have shown better peak numbers than those using the 20% loss factor. I see the stock curve *potentially* peaking at 5750 at just a hair over 250. 20% power loss applied on the rated 302 hp would yield 240 hp, so again I think 20% would have been too aggressive a loss to apply.

This would kind of lead me to believe they didn't run the stock MM at full tilt at lower RPMs, to get the stock curve. Running the chipped MM a little harder would artificially yield a higher mid-range power gain when compared with the stock curve that is plotted on the site. In reality, I think the 60hp value is a little high, but once again we have to consider the dyno inaccuracies. My guess is more along the lines of 30-35hp at the rear wheels, but again it's just a somewhat educated guess.

One would have to dyno their own cars before and after the chip to know for sure. (also, would the stock computer have some sort of power limiting function that would be active on low-mileage cars, to prevent breakage on motors with less mileage? I understand the 4.6ls like mileage to "loosen up", much like GM's LS1. Perhaps the chip overcomes this power limitation?)

[MAD-3R]

Creative Marketing?

[Reaper948]

Originally posted by BigBadMerc
The Diablo was $255, I didn't have to change plugs or thermostat, just run high octane gas, but I did that already. Go to diablo's website and see the gains for yourself, on a rear wheel dyno it made a little better than 60hp gain, but if you look, the gain is in the bottom and mid not the top, top end looked more like 20 or so. and it also smoothed out the flat spot at around 4000rpm, and I was happy about that. It also made the shift points 500 rpm higher and fuel cutoff is at 7000rpm, and their is no more 117mph limiter either. Overall I am very happy with it. And you could tell the power improvement imediately without having to go to wide open throttle to notice.

Do you have a dyno sheet that shows this?.....whatre the quarter mile and 0-60 times with that?

[nexstar7]

any coments on the lincoln motor sport chip by max rpm

[TAF]

FACT:

Diablo Performance chip ("plain-Jane" Performance i.e. NO custom...just Performance) = $250 - $270

FACT:

WITH corrected Speedo = $340

And...

FACT:

Gear change WILL effect Speedo.

Feel free to call them if you think this is wrong.

IMHO...a "bargain" is NOT always a bargain.

[TAF]

The 60 RWHP listed is a typo. It should read 24 RWHP and 30 FTTQ.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by toddalanfisher
If it REALLY is a 60hp gain...then it's 3 times better at 60% of the cost. BUT....I don't know if the gain is true....

I'll stick with Dennis' chip unless proven otherwise...

You will NEVER get a 60 HP gain on a chip for a naturally aspirated gasoline engine, diesel yes gas NO. If you go to PDQ's site and look at the dyno sheet it is showing peak HP on the up shift this is t not true RWHP it is a spike.

The Diablo add is wrong, period, just a typo. I have already talked to them, they should be changing it. They should be advertising the same gains as I have, I know more about this subject than what I can really say here, but every one knows I use there blank black Delta chips with my own programing.

I started out with just a single four bank file chip in the beginning now all I sell is the Delta chip, I send you the switch because it comes with the chip, this chip is much more expensive than the older chips, I only raised my price 25.00. This chip can be reburnt at a later time with two programs.

So every one knows a Red Diablo chip takes a different file format which is called cri file format. I use bin file format, I cannot program a Red Diablo chip with bin files, I cannot load there files on my black chips, but they can load cri files on black chips, so they can sell those chips to people who want to say its there own chip and programming when in reality it is, Diablo's. There chip is less, because they charge extra for speedometer correction and removed speed limit, I believe that custom charge is 150 over the stock chip price, so again you can decide which chip you want, to try, call them and ask them what it will cost to shut EGR off or ask them to put 93 octane on one side and 91 octane on side two then ask them for cost. I believe I have a proven product, if you want to call me I will be more than glad to answer your questions over the phone. Again to each his own on the choice of chips.

[Logan]

Dennis, there's no question in my mind about it. You've done more than prove yourself and your products around here.

People are more than welcome to go with another solution, those who KNOW, well... KNOW. :)

[TAF]

I'll drink to that!!!

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by toddalanfisher
I'll drink to that!!!

Me too, thanks Dennis.

[WolfeBros]

No doubt about it. Cheers Dennis. :beer:

[FordNut]

The dealer that installed my chip from Dennis also sells Diablo chips. I had him quote me a price for similar programming and the price was virtually the same. However, I feel like Dennis has the better reputation because he has worked with the heavier Panther cars more than other chip makers who work mostly on the Mustangs. For what it's worth I'm glad I got Dennis' chip.

[Reaper948]

i cant even drink....

[Marauderman]

OH!!!!!!!!! So now I'm finding out you guys like to indulge (drink) too!!!!!!!

Well--when do we start?" J/K :banana: