Widest street legal tires?

[TechHeavy]

What size tire is the widest that is still street legal, (provided this doesn't vary by state)?
I know everyone is going with the Nitto 305/45/18 Drag Radials, (which are sweet) but I need to know that I've got the widest tires available with the best traction possible that is still legal.... I know there are other variables involved in the traction equation as well, (rubber compound, posi-traction... ect...) but for the Spring I'm thinking that the most rubber on the ground is what I'll need.

Input? Thanks!

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

I don't think you would be able to go much bigger than the 305's.
When I put the 305 Nitto's on they rubbed against the shocks on both sides and I had to put spacers to gain enough clearance so they wouldn't rub. ;)

[TechHeavy]

I don't think you would be able to go much bigger than the 305's.
When I put the 305 Nitto's on they rubbed against the shocks on both sides and I had to put spacers to gain enough clearance so they wouldn't rub. ;)
Ok, but it still looks stock right? What if I wanted to use more spacers/extenders, ect... How wide could I go legally?

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

I used a 7/32 spacer which gave me about 1/4 inch of space between the tire and shock. If you go to big on the spacer you will have less lug/bolt for the lug nuts to grab onto which could be dangerous.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10484&highlight=SPACERS

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/3019/2240NITTO.JPG

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12708&highlight=rubbing

[TechHeavy]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12708&highlight=rubbing
Thanks for the threads #5. Great reads.... I see this has been hashed over before... (man, I love this forum!). :)

I'm starting to see that even the 305s may be pushing it and that thoughts of even wider are cutting into my cost/performance gain/street and ride effectiveness reality check.

After some time, how are your 305s rubbing with the 7/32 spacer? Minimal?

[mmmmmmarauder]

let's say I go with 305/45/18 (after widening the rims of course)
are these the sizes front & rear (or does the need to turn negate this)?


please tell me the sizes front and rear after widening
do you widen both front and rear wheels?
(or can you/should you?)

also, let's assume I am lazy/cheap and I really want to own
only ONE SET of wheels and tires (and I live in the snowbelt)...

Is there any tire that size which can reasonably be considered
"all-season"...(I am not expecting snow tires just some chance to turn & stop)???

oh yeah, of course I don't drive MUCH in the snow and ice and salt
and I do rinse and wax the wheels often to reduce damage to the finish


(OK...that is WAYYYYYYY more that two questions, but it is CHRISTmas so give me a break!!!)


Peter
greekchicago@hotmail.com




:stooges:

P.S. What's up with functional hood scoop from a recent post
someone PLEASE work on it...it is a great mod idea!

[Agent M79]

I just did a search at Tirerack.com for 305/45/18 and came up with 0 results.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

After some time, how are your 305s rubbing with the 7/32 spacer? Minimal?
No more noticeable rubbing. :D

[TechHeavy]

No more noticeable rubbing. :D
Good deal. You're my new hero. I'll be hooking up with these in the Spring. Thanks bro! :)

[FordNut]

Instead of spacers, you can change over to QA1 shocks and pick up a lot of clearance. And Goodyear Eagle F1 295/45-18s are a good street tire that fits the widened rims.

[TechHeavy]

I just did a search at Tirerack.com for 305/45/18 and came up with 0 results.
You're right Agent. In fact, the Nitto brand is not listed at all. I'm sure they can get them though, (maybe just not on web site).

I know Tirerack.com is one of our sponsers and the preferred tire dealer for this site, if you go to discounttire.com, quick-link: http://www.discounttire.com/dtc/searchTiresBySize.do?rc=MIGINT&sw=false&cs=305&ar=45&rd=18 you can read all the info on the Nitto Drag Radial everyone is talking about.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

[QUOTE=mmmmmmarauder]let's say I go with 305/45/18 (after widening the rims of course)
are these the sizes front & rear (or does the need to turn negate this)?


please tell me the sizes front and rear after widening
do you widen both front and rear wheels?
(or can you/should you?)

also, let's assume I am lazy/cheap and I really want to own
only ONE SET of wheels and tires (and I live in the snowbelt)...

Is there any tire that size which can reasonably be considered
"all-season"...(I am not expecting snow tires just some chance to turn & stop)???

oh yeah, of course I don't drive MUCH in the snow and ice and salt
and I do rinse and wax the wheels often to reduce damage to the finish


(OK...that is WAYYYYYYY more that two questions, but it is CHRISTmas so give me a break!!!)


Peter
greekchicago@hotmail.com


I still have the original tires and rims on the front. I'm not sure how big you can go up front, but I don't believe you can fit the 305's up there.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

I just did a search at Tirerack.com for 305/45/18 and came up with 0 results.NITTO'S SOLD HERE:

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/images/headTop.gif

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/tires/nithv4.l.jpg $241.00ea. www.DiscountTireDirect.com (http://www.discounttiredirect.com/)

[NAVCHAP]

Toyo 295/45/18s in rear, Toyo 245/45/18s in front. No problems with clearance, great grip, nice in the rain. Jefferson Mo gave me a super deal, he's right here in SD at a local Ford dealer.

Ray could probably do it too, but it was too easy for me to drive over there and have the tires waiting for me, along with the service folks to mount and install them.

They were on the car at Indy, and a lot of folks were impressed. I kept my stock rear rims and tires, so I actually have six (6) MM wheels.

I did not widen my wheels that came with the car, but I've had them on for almost 8k miles and no serious problems. Danny Boone, a Master at Collins L-M in Indy, with an awesome 70 Cyclone Spoiler, fixed my pin hole on the left side with just a little liquid wheel patch. Plus he did a super job installing the Metco Watts Link, he didn't want to scratch it.

I know folks have raised concerns about the safety of widening the wheels. Some time ago one of the members mentioned that he knew someone at the ALCOA plant that made the MM wheels.

This person warned him of potential problems, but I'm totally happy with Lidio's contact that widened them, the additional grip they give me, and the appearance.

-kjs-

[FordNut]

Toyo 295/45/18s in rear, Toyo 245/45/18s in front. No problems with clearance, great grip, nice in the rain. Jefferson Mo gave me a super deal, he's right here in SD at a local Ford dealer.

Ray could probably do it too, but it was too easy for me to drive over there and have the tires waiting for me, along with the service folks to mount and install them.

They were on the car at Indy, and a lot of folks were impressed. I kept my stock rear rims and tires, so I actually have six (6) MM wheels.

I did not widen my wheels that came with the car, but I've had them on for almost 8k miles and no serious problems. Danny Boone, a Master at Collins L-M in Indy, with an awesome 70 Cyclone Spoiler, fixed my pin hole on the left side with just a little liquid wheel patch. Plus he did a super job installing the Metco Watts Link, he didn't want to scratch it.

I know folks have raised concerns about the safety of widening the wheels. Some time ago one of the members mentioned that he knew someone at the ALCOA plant that made the MM wheels.

This person warned him of potential problems, but I'm totally happy with Lidio's contact that widened them, the additional grip they give me, and the appearance.

-kjs-
I believe Dennis is also using the Toyo tires. I looked into those and the S speed rating kind of held me back. Notice the tread pattern is quite similar to the new BFG KDW tires (or I guess that should be the BFG copied the Toyo?)

I have wondered about problems with the widened wheels, your pinhole leak is the only problem I've heard of. No breakage or serious issues have been reported. I'll be getting some widened myself soon.

[BillyGman]

I have the Nitto P305/45/18's also (infact I'm already on my second pair because of my burnout habit:D ) but I don't have spacers. you really don't have to get them because the tires are only right up against the shocks when the car is off the ground, and the weight of the wheels and tires extend the shocks completely.


Remember, that the shocks lean inward, therefore they don't stick out as wide towards the top as they do on the bottom. So when the car is placed back on the ground with the Nitto tires on, the weight of the car compresses the shocks so that there is room between the nitto P305 tires and the shock bodies. You'll still get some rub marks on the shock bodies since the tires will rub slightly just for a split second when you go over some unusually big bumps (such as speed bumps) or big potholes. But it isn't enough to cause sidewall wear of the tires. Infact the soft rubber compound of the Nitto tires (or any drag radials for that matter) will cause the tread to wear out long before the sidewall ever would from the minor momentary rubbing during unusualy heavy bumps.

But I agree with the above statement that you cannot go any wider than P305 tires on the Marauder. Atleast not unless you want to change suspension parts, or relocate the shock mounts. And the thicker the wheel spacers are, the more undue stress that's placed on the rear wheel bearings, which will reduce the bearing life. And BTW, you cannot use P305 tires in the front. I don't think that you would want anything wider than P250's on the front. You might be able to ghet P275's on the front, but that's a BIG maybe, and I don't know why anyone would want to anyway.

[FordNut]

But I agree with the above statement that you cannot go any wider than P305 tires on the Marauder. Atleast not unless you want to change suspension parts, or relocate the shock mounts. And the thicker the wheel spacers are, the more undue stress that's placed on the rear wheel bearings, which will reduce the bearing life. And BTW, you cannot use P305 tires in the front. I don't think that you would want anything wider than P250's on the front. You might be able to ghet P275's on the front, but that's a BIG maybe, and I don't know why anyone would want to anyway.
I'm not so sure about the 305 being the max width that will fit. With the QA1 shocks, there is at least an inch of clearance between Marty's 305's and the shocks. The difference is that the QA1 shocks mount opposite from the OEM shocks, so the shaft is next to the tire instead of the shock body. In addition, the bottom mount of the QA1 has to be shimmed to one side of the other and shimming toward the inside effectively moves the bottom shock mount inboard even more.

[BillyGman]

I'm not so sure about the 305 being the max width that will fit. With the QA1 shocks, there is at least an inch of clearance between Marty's 305's and the shocks.........FN, I think you misunderstood me.....I said..."atleast not unless you change suspension parts....." (meaning shocks;) )....

BTW, I forgot to mention before that tire width isn't the only thing that we have to be concerned with while shopping for tires.....tire height should also be considered. there are P295 and P275 tires on the market that have an overall tire height that's 2" shorter than our stock Marauder tires. And unless you've lowered your car with suspension modifications like some members have, then you might not like the bigger space that's between the tires and the wheel wells. I know that i wouldn't like how a 26" tall tire looks on my Marauder. I'll stay with 28" tall tires only. And in addition to an 18" wheel diameter, that kind of narrows down the choices that we have.

[Mike Poore]

What size tire is the widest that is still street legal, (provided this doesn't vary by state)?
I know everyone is going with the Nitto 305/45/18 Drag Radials, (which are sweet) but I need to know that I've got the widest tires available with the best traction possible that is still legal.... I know there are other variables involved in the traction equation as well, (rubber compound, posi-traction... ect...) but for the Spring I'm thinking that the most rubber on the ground is what I'll need.

Input? Thanks!
There's no such law, at least, not in PA. Most regulations have to do with the tire extending beyond the body. Look at the tires on street rods & such. All you gotta do is cover 'em with a fender. :twocents:
:burn:

[mmmmmmarauder]

The biggest front tires possible while still being
able to TURN are the 250/45/18?

Does that mean all four wheels should be widened?


Did anyone ever do that to confirm the look would be "right"?

Perhaps I should just widen the rears to 295/45/18 or 305/45/18 (?)?

The tires should be 28" tall (minimum) and Goodyear Eagle makes
an F1 which is kinda all-season (for some snow?)???



Lidio is willing to make any size
but I need to know which is proven to work


:stooges:


Merry CHRISTmas!!!


don't forget JESUS is the reason for the season!

[TechHeavy]

I have the Nitto P305/45/18's also (infact I'm already on my second pair because of my burnout habit:D ) but I don't have spacers. you really don't have to get them because the tires are only right up against the shocks when the car is off the ground, and the weight of the wheels and tires extend the shocks completely.... But I agree with the above statement that you cannot go any wider than P305 tires on the Marauder.
Billy, I was waiting for you to chime in, my friend! You told me all about the Nitto Drag Radials, and I know they rock, (they're #1 on my list right now) but, (being like I am... :rolleyes: ) I wanted to see if an even wider choice was available for better hook-ups! :)
The different shocks described by FordNut have me intrigued, I must admit. I'll be looking into that further and would welcome any additional input on possibly wider tires with the Marty set-up.
I appreciate all the feed-back. I knew you guys would give me lots of ideas. I'm just researching the best traction tires possible because in the Spring I'm hittin' the track baby! Yeah! :D

[mpearce]

The use of spacers causes an exponential increase of shear load on your wheel studs. Using more than one increases the shear even more. If you do use them, I hear the use of special spacers specifically machined for your wheels, reduces the shear potential a bit.

-Mat

[MI2QWK4U]

You're right Agent. In fact, the Nitto brand is not listed at all. I'm sure they can get them though, (maybe just not on web site).

I know Tirerack.com is one of our sponsers and the preferred tire dealer for this site, if you go to discounttire.com, quick-link: http://www.discounttire.com/dtc/searchTiresBySize.do?rc=MIGINT&sw=false&cs=305&ar=45&rd=18 you can read all the info on the Nitto Drag Radial everyone is talking about.


Dave,
When the time comes to get the Nittos, let me know. There is a local source that I can assure you will give you the best price in Michigan. And it must be individual to a car, cause i never experienced any rubbing, and mine was the test mule for both the widened rims and the 305 Nittos last year, drove around town for Lidio testing fit and performance, very good tire and the fit is good.

[MI2QWK4U]

Almost forgot, only laws that I am aware of for tires is sticking out beyond wheel well like some of the ghetto cruising lowriders you see with rims and tires sticking out 7 inches beyond the fender well, and for tread depth.

[TechHeavy]

Almost forgot, only laws that I am aware of for tires is sticking out beyond wheel well like some of the ghetto cruising lowriders you see with rims and tires sticking out 7 inches beyond the fender well, and for tread depth.
Thanks Dave. I'll see you, (hopefully) at your move. I'll get details then.
Merry Christmas!

[SergntMac]

I know from past posts that this is a potentially touchy topic. I'm just adding some IMHO notes from my personal experience, do what you want with this. I learned my 411 from Brad Grissom, a pro driver and Kenny Brown's "Doctor Tire." Call him at 317.247.5320 for more 411.

Maximum tire size on the front is 255/45. I tried 255/50 to confirm for a test, and they rubbed on lock to lock turns. I backed the size down to 255/45, no rub anywhere. BTW, maximum tire size for our 18X8 stock wheel is 255 wide.

305 is too wide a tire for 9.5" wide rims, 295 wide is the max. With the 305 tire, tread meant to contact the ground will wrap around to the sidewall and not contact the ground, so, any "extra wide means more contact" is not really taking place. The tire is not square with the ground and you're paying for tire you're not using. There are plenty of pics of this tire size/wheel combination available here, take a peek for yourself?

Moreover, this wrap around of too much tire tread compresses the sidewall, and hard cornering will cause the sidewall foundation to "balloon" internally, shred, and possibly blow out during a hard turn. BTW, 10" wide rims will not fit the car at all, regardless of tire size installed, and you need 10" rims to run 305 tires safely.

So...There's your reasonable limits to tires, IMHO. Furthermore, I do not feel use of spacers is responsible when driving the car in performance situations. It's cool for display and routine travel, maybe okay in drag racing too, as long as you have paid proper attention to lug nut travel depth and torque. But, spacers are not okay if your into road racing, autocross, or, enjoying some serious highway twisties.

I know this isn't a favorable position, sometimes y'all don't like to hear "there's a limit." Nonetheless, it's your car, do what you want.

[mmmmmmarauder]

So, I may go 255/50 for the front
(the rubbing may only be on hard left and right)

and 305/50 with a 7/32" spacer on 10" widened wheels
(Is Lidio the only wheel widening guy?)


The problem is that wheel widening takes 2-3 weeks
and I don't have extra wheels or that much time to spend
in Michigan on jack stands:P


Last question, I promise...

Which brand tires can I get that would have any reasonable
expectation of SOME traction on snow and ice?:P
(think...I am used to Michelin all season radials and don't like surprises)


Merry CHRISTmas!
JESUS is the reason for the season



Peter

greekchicago@hotmail.com:stoog es:

[mmmmmmarauder]

that is why you need 7/32" spacers


several Marauderers here are running that set-up




Please tell me if this tire size "the so-called DRAG RADIAL"
can be bought in an all-season quiet and traction safe tread...



thanks


drive safe

p

greekchicago@hotmail.com:stoog es:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

The 305-45-18 goes on the 9.5 in. widened rim not 10 in.
Myself and many others here have recorded numerous safe miles with this set-up. If your looking for more of an all-season tire the Goodyear 295 may be better suited.:cool:

[mmmmmmarauder]

word?


The bottom line?



Lidio is a great guy and he will make the wheels as wide
as you wish...but the set-up needs to work right and safely
the first time


so maybe...255/50 front tires on stock wheels

and...305/50 rear tires on widened wheels

with Goodyear (295?) or other "all-season" tread




I am SOOOOOOOOOOO confusedddddd

[FordNut]

The bottom line?

Lidio is a great guy and he will make the wheels as wide
as you wish...but the set-up needs to work right and safely
the first time

so maybe...255/50 front tires on stock wheels

and...305/50 rear tires on widened wheels

with Goodyear (295?) or other "all-season" tread

I am SOOOOOOOOOOO confusedddddd
I'm not sure what's so confusing. A proven setup is 295/45 or 305/45 rear tires on 9.5" rims. If you want 305s, the only choice I know of is the drag radials. Some folks run them year-round and claim they're safe. Personally, I would be afraid to use them in the rain. Many of the places I go, the traffic flow is about 80 mph, even in the rain. I wouldn't do it on drag radials. If you want the 295s, there are a few choices. The Goodyear F1 GS is a well-respected street performance tire in that size, but there are other brands available in the 295 size.

For the fronts, use the stock rim width and something close to the stock size to prevent rubbing on sharp cornering.

As for down-time, I recall a post awhile back about Lidio offering to provide new, widened rims. That would be quite a bit more expensive than having yours widened. Another option is to buy a couple of more rims and send them out for widening.

[BillyGman]

word?


The bottom line?



and...305/50 rear tires on widened wheels

with Goodyear (295?) or other "all-season" tread




I am SOOOOOOOOOOO confuseddddddIt sounds to me that you're looking to have it all in one set of tires, and that's unrealistic, because you just cannot have it all in one set.There's always going to be trade-offs. That's why "all season" radials will never be as good in the snow as real snow tires are. They're a compromise. MAC shared some things that I agree with, and some things that I do not agree with. He mentioned that P255/50 tires that he had rubbing on the fender wells during a hard turn, and I wasn't aware of that, so I'm glad that he mentioned that.

He also mentioned that the P305 size for the back is too wide for the widened 9.5" rims. His intention is well, and he's certainly entitled to his opinion. The reason why I'm not in agreement with him on that, is because the tire size chart that the Nitto tire company supplies on their website specifically states the rim width required for all their tires, and the rim width requirement for thier P305/45/18" tires is 9.5"-11.5". So I would think that the tire manufacture knows what they're talking about. As far as the P305 Nitto tires "rolling aroung" the 9.5" widened mag wheels, I think that just about ALL radial tires have an appearence of rolling around the wheel. And if you don't believe that, then you haven't burned out any tires doing burnouts like I have. I can assure you, that even on the standard radial OEM Marauder tires, the middle of the tire wears more than the extreme outer tread area. And that's because of the way that ALL radial tires sit on the rim, and the way their tread design is.

And as far as the P305 tire on the widened 9.5" mag wheels not being "suitable" for auto-cross nor for roadracing courses, well, that's no biggie since the Nitto P305 tires are for off-the-line street traction, and for drag racing. They're not for throwing your car around turns at top speeds. Frankly, I'm not interested in running road races that require some hairy cornering anyway. If I was, then I sure wouldn't have bought a big tank of a car like the Marauder anyway. If you put the same amount of money and work into the suspension of a lighter car as you would put into any Marauder to make it handle better around fast turns, then the lighter car would out-handle the Marauder anyway.

If you don't believe me, then just try keeping up with a modified Mustang or any other lighter car around turns. They'll eat your car for lunch if they put the same amount of work into their suspensions as you did in yours simply because of the lesser vehicle weight. I'm sorry for drifting off the topic, but I guess this all started when someone mentioned the lack of cornering abilities with a drag radial tire, when those tires aren't for high speed competition handling anyway. And BTW, like I've mentioned before, if you haven't lowered the ride height of your Marauder by modifying the suspension like MAC's car is and some other board members have done to their Marauders, then you better make sure that the P295 tires that you're considering have a tire height of about 28"- 28.5" just like the stock OEM tires do IF you don't want a big space between the tires and the wheel wells. And I'm not sure if there are any 18" P295 tires on the market that have an overall tire height of 28". I cannot say that I've looked extensively for that size, but the ones that I have seen in the 18" variety are all about 26" in overall height which is waaaaay too short IF you have the stock Marauder suspension like I do. Good luck with your search.

[FordNut]

you better make sure that the P295 tires that you're considering have a tire height of about 28"- 28.5" just like the stock OEM tires do IF you don't want a big space between the tires and the wheel wells. And I'm not sure if there are any 18" P295 tires on the market that have an overall tire height of 28". I cannot say that I've looked extensively for that size, but the ones that I have seen in the 18" variety are all about 26" in overall height which is waaaaay too short IF you have the stock Marauder suspension like I do. Good luck with your search.

The Goodyear Eagle F1 GS in 295/45-18 is spec'd for a 9.5-11" rim and is 28.4" diameter.

Survey Ratings (scale of 1-10):
Dry Traction = 9
Wet Traction = 9
Snow Traction = 2
Ride Comfort = 4
Quiet Ride = 6

[sailsmen]

I put the 255/55 Goodrich KDW2 on the rear and I am very happy with them.

When the front OEM's wear out I am going with the KDW2 on the front.

The KDW2 do hook up unlike the OEM KDWS.

[BillyGman]

The Goodyear Eagle F1 GS in 295/45-18 is spec'd for a 9.5-11" rim and is 28.4" diameter.

Survey Ratings (scale of 1-10):
Dry Traction = 9
Wet Traction = 9
Snow Traction = 2
Ride Comfort = 4
Quiet Ride = 6
Thanks for that info FN. ;)

[SergntMac]

I agree that vehicle weight is a factor, a big factor, because when you're into the turns, even off-ramp curves, sidewall flexibility is key to stability and control, and a 305 sidewall that is lacking room to flex, is not healthy.

I agree that the manfacturers do know best, and when you see a wheel/rim width spread, such as 8" to 10", it's because the weight of the car is to be factored in. Use the narrow 8" rim for lighter vehicles, and a wider 10" rim for heavier vehicles. Wonder where an MM fits in? Anyway...Courtesy of the Rubber Manfacturer's Assn...

http://www.olderogtire.com/pdf/rma_approved_rim_width_charts. pdf

255/45 series tires use 8 to 10" rims
255/50 series tires use 6.5 to 10" rims
285/45 series tires use 9 to 11" rims
295/45 series tires use 10 to 12" rims
285/50 series tires use 7.5 to 11" rims
295/50 series tires use 7.5 to 11" rims
No listing for the 305/45, do the math?
315/45 series tires use 10-12" rims

50 series tires enjoy greater tolerances for rim width because the sidewall is much taller.

Like I said, my position isn't popular, do what you wish. But, there is no reason to ignore known industry standards.

[BillyGman]

Here's the link to the Nitto webpage that lists the rim width requirements. There's no mention of vehicle weight on ANY rim width requirement charts of ANY tire manufacture that I've ever seen, and if the vehicle weight altered rim width requirements to an extent that safety would be called into question, then I'm quite sure that the tire manufactures would be legally obligated to make mention of that to avoid liability in the case of car accidents.......

http://www.nittotire.com/popup_555r_sizes.asp

[woaface]

Ok, so given the idea about that 10inch rims may not be the best idea, and wider tires can cause trouble, and obviously some concern...what about a re-engineering of the studs or other parts in question?

Longer ones or something so the tire can be widened without rubbing and with or without spacers? What about not so wide tires with a better differential and other things for better rear hookup?

You guys have done some amazing stuff here. Contracting someone to rework the parts in question shouldn't be too hard.

[BillyGman]

Jimmy, it's all a matter of how much work and how much $$ someone wants to invest in order to get wider meats in the back. The first stage ofcourse is to get the shocks that Marty has on his car. That would give you a little more room according to what's been stated here(assuming that they're good for daily street driving). Perhaps enough to go woth P315 tires in the back. The next stage would be having the shock mounts welded more inboard. Then you can go wider. And the next step would be to outright tub-out the wheel wells. But that would cost some money and require more cutting and more work in general than the other options.


You also have to consider what tires are available, and exactly what you want the tires for. Drag racing, street only, autocross, circle track, etc..... and there is a very limited selection of tires wider than the P305's that come in the 18" size. There's the P315, although many of those come in the 35 series which tends to have a pretty short tire height. There are a couple P345 tires, but now you're really getting into some serious cash. I've seen them for $400 per tire, and I don't believe that those tires last that long either.

Ofcourse you can also get slicks even much wider than that, but that wouldn't be any good for street driving.

[Dan]

I can assure you, that even on the standard radial OEM Marauder tires, the middle of the tire wears more than the extreme outer tread area. And that's because of the way that ALL radial tires sit on the rim, and the way their tread design is.


Bill,

Improper air pressure is the more likely cause of a tire wearing in the middle first verses raidal tire design or the way a radial sits on the rim.

Most people will inflate their tires to the max PSI that they see on the tire. What most people fail to do is realize that max PSI is only called for when carrying the maximum load. That being the case, if you do not have maximum load the tire will be overinflated and wear in the middle.

I am not an expert on the subject but I think it might help if I divulged why I know this. As the President of an off road club I have had to do a ton of research and live testing on this concept because we regularly tell people to air down but who refuse based on all of the hype that the tire companies create. I havd a set of 35" tires on my truck that called for max PSI of 35 but I noticed middle tread wear after a short time. I then lowered the PSI to the low twenties. I determined this based on a mathematical formula and some special testing that I have learned. Once I did this I noticed that the tire wear was a lot more even and even that the tires would dry more evenly than they used to.

I just took the rears off of my car and noticed that one tire was worn in the middle and the other was not. A quick check of PSI showed that the one without the tread wear was also lower in PSI.

I figured that I would point this out to you, Bill. I know how important being accurate in these matters is to you and felt that you would appreciate some clarification. I know that you may still have a different opinion than I do and that is ok. I just wanted to point out what I have learned along with a little bit of how I learned it.

Dan

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

28 psi

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2240BALD.JPG

[BillyGman]

Dan, you misunderstood what I was talking about, and I can see by Rick's picture that he's posted, that he sees exactly what I'm talking about. The very outer edges of a radial tire get used while cornering, but with the car just sitting still, or remaining in a straight line they do not make contact with the pavement like the center of the tread does. Therefore when you do a burnout with mega proportion while keeping the car straight (IF you ever have) then you'll simply wear the center of the tread out before you do the sides (as Rick's tire pic displays...thanks Rick.;) ).

[SergntMac]

Here's the link to the Nitto webpage...
I find 3 versions of the Nitto 555 here.

1) The "Extreme ZR" is a full time driving tire. Tread depth of 10.8/32 and a UTOG rating of 300. Though not available in 305/45, the 295/45 is closest to that size and the chart offered suggests rim sizes from "9.5-(10.0)-11.0" wide. I can't see why "(10.0)" is posted the way it is. Since our four tires are the only surfaces holding us to the ground under power, I e-mailed Nitto for clarification.

2) The "Extreme DR" is next. Same tread pattern, but it's "shaved" down to 6/32, UTOG of only 100. This is obviously a true drag radial, and the site offers many sizes, including the 305/45. Same weird rim width referrence, though. I'm sure it will be a few days before Tech support replies, holidays and all...

3) The "Extreme RII." This tire is clearly an auto-cross/road racing tire. Same tread pattern again (and sweet too). Now shaved to 5/32 tread depth, with a UTOG rating of 100. This must be the master gripper of the Nitto line, and IMHO, the only thing keeping you from using this tire on the street, is it's wear out/replacement costs.

"Legally bald" is 2/32, this tire looks like a very low mileage tire if you drive on it full time. Of course, what provides almost perfect traction on the race track, only a fool would drive on in the street. If this wasn't true, we would all have slicks on the pavement full time at all four corners, right? BTW, not a good selection in size, and no 305/45.

Ok, so given the idea about that 10 inch rims may not be the best idea, and wider tires can cause trouble, and obviously some concern...what about a re-engineering of the studs or other parts in question? Longer ones or something so the tire can be widened without rubbing and with or without spacers? What about not so wide tires with a better differential and other things for better rear hookup? You guys have done some amazing stuff here. Contracting someone to rework the parts in question shouldn't be too hard.
Good question, James, page back a few posts?

We're trying to answer a question from a MM owner who's looking for 411 on "legal" tire widths. I presume his MM to be mostly bone stock in the back end, and I presume his "legal" question to include elements of traffic law while respecting the "safety laws" established by design engineers and manfacturers. Therefore, 10" wide MM rims won't fit on a bone stock MM, period. Don't ask Lidio to build them, Lidio will build what you ask for. But, you won't be able to use a 10" wide rim on a BS MM.

Aftermarket rims may offer more options with respect to our unique backspacing and offset, but I didn't explore that because it wasn't mentioned in the question.

9.5" rims from Lidio fit the MM perfectly, in every way, and the work is flawless. These wider rims invite exploration of larger tire sizes, and one should move forward with safety in mind, which is what we are exploring now. Sorry, James, longer studs alone won't fix anything. For the bone stock MM that will be raced on a track, or, used in "high spirited" highway driving, I cannot suggest or support use of spacers.

My first experience with wheel spacers dates back to 1967, and my 1965 Dodge Coronet 500, 426 street wedge, 4 speed and 4:11s. I used spacers to run a set of Goodyear "blue line cheater slicks" and wrecked the car because of them. This is not new science, it's old school, and IMHO...Stupid.

Yes, longer studs would reduce some of my concern if spacers are an absolute and only final option for a show car, but not any MM that will see hard driving. Spacers add a sectional plate between the wheel and the axle that upsets the benefit of our unique MM offset and backspacing of our "one of a kind" wheel. Longer studs will endure more torque, but they will carry more weight and suffer from more tension too. Introducing this sectional plate that will shift under RWTQ and fail to support the wheel/axle union, is not the answer if you are heading for any race track, or, highway twisties. OEM studs do not offer the torque capability for a correct install, and longer studs will eventually shear off. It's not just studs, James, it's studs and a spacer that float under torque together, that weaken this important union.

As suggested ^ there, we can "tub it out" and make a lot of other changes too. But, this all costs more money, and we are getting kind of silly about all of the possible options now. I can't say the original poster had any idea that this swap-o-rama drama was laying in the weeds, and all for the sake of justifying one particular tire manfacturer, and in one particular size. Stop the madness already, it's been two years now, with a lot of new developments in our MM favor. Upgrade your knowledge base, eh?

I posted my experience with tire size limitations on our stock MM rims and Lidio's 9.5" extended rims, as I know them. I'm getting a touch sorry I ever opened my mouth to begin with. The original question was "what are the limits," so, don't blame the messenger if you're driving on the wrong size tire.

I do a lot of stuff to my MM and I do a lot of stuff with it. What makes me smile from behind the wheel is not as important as what will protect my passengers.

Menace....Your pic...Are you driving those tires on the street?

[BillyGman]

[QUOTE=SergntMac]I find 3 versions of the Nitto 555 here.Gimmie a break, uh? It was obvious that both you and I were previously talking about the NT555R's which are the Nitto P305's that many supercharged Marauder owners here are using, and are the ONLY DRAG Radial tires that Nitto makes. You're splitting hairs MAC.


"Legally bald" is 2/32, this tire looks like a very low mileage tire if you drive on it full time. Of course, what provides almost perfect traction on the race track, only a fool would drive on in the street. If this wasn't true, we would all have slicks on the pavement full time at all four corners, right? BTW, not a good selection in size, and no 305/45.The chart I provided a link to lists the P305/45/R18's that many of us are using including Jerry Barnes and Lidio. So what is your real point if you have one? Apparently you're calling all of us who use these tires on the street "fools", right? get real. The tires are DOT approved, so what would be the point of a tire company making a "drag radial" that's DOT approved if you couldn't use it on the street? if you cannot use it on the street and it wasn't made for that, then why would a tire company even make them? Why not simply use a slick since that provides better traction on the track than any "drag radial" tire will? So you're going out of your way to split hairs here. but let it be known that you've just stated that all of us who use these tires on the street are "fools" because you know that you're wrong about what you've previously stated about 9.5" rims being too narrow for the P305 Nitto tires. but apparently the great MAC knows more than the Nitto tire manufacture about this. Perhaps they shgould've consulted you before they published their rim width requirement charts. :rolleyes:

If you go to tirerack.com, and click on the "specs" tab of any tire, you'll find that many of them have an approved rim width range for most tires, and in the middle of that range there's a number in parentheses with the optimal or average rim width for that tire. Which is the same thing that the Nitto tire charts include. And ther bottom line here is that IF a 9.5" rim width for the Nitto P305 Drag Radials was too narrow to be safe then they wouldn't state that you can use a 9.5" rim in their chart.

[stevengerard]

[QUOTE=BillyGman]
The reason why I'm not in agreement with him on that, is because the tire size chart that the Nitto tire company supplies on their website specifically states the rim width required for all their tires, and the rim width requirement for thier P305/45/18" tires is 9.5"-11.5".

They are maximizing their market within a safe range, doesn't mean that 9.5 is optimal.

And as far as the P305 tire on the widened 9.5" mag wheels not being "suitable" for auto-cross nor for roadracing courses, well, that's no biggie since the Nitto P305 tires are for off-the-line street traction, and for drag racing. They're not for throwing your car around turns at top speeds. Frankly, I'm not interested in running road races that require some hairy cornering anyway. If I was, then I sure wouldn't have bought a big tank of a car like the Marauder anyway. If you put the same amount of money and work into the suspension of a lighter car as you would put into any Marauder to make it handle better around fast turns, then the lighter car would out-handle the Marauder anyway.

If you don't believe me, then just try keeping up with a modified Mustang or any other lighter car around turns. They'll eat your car for lunch if they put the same amount of work into their suspensions as you did in yours simply because of the lesser vehicle weight. I'm sorry for drifting off the topic, but I guess this all started when someone mentioned the lack of cornering abilities with a drag radial tire, when those tires aren't for high speed competition handling anyway. QUOTE]

Same can be said about our cars for the strip, if one was only interested in 1/4 mile times then who in their right mind would buy a 4200 lb car with a little 4.6 displacement engine. I have already brought my car to the strip - I also plan on autocrossing it. This car is a great compromise for my needs and desires. So I appreciate the real life experience with tires this thread offers.

[SergntMac]

Ummm...Okay.

Others concerned with this topic will do their research and they will learn what they need to learn, My bad, Billy, I was only trying to stay on topic and answer the question as it was posed.

[BillyGman]

[QUOTE=BillyGman]
The reason why I'm not in agreement with him on that, is because the tire size chart that the Nitto tire company supplies on their website specifically states the rim width required for all their tires, and the rim width requirement for thier P305/45/18" tires is 9.5"-11.5".

They are maximizing their market within a safe range, doesn't mean that 9.5 is optimal.Saying that it isn't optimal is one thing, and I won't argue with that since that cannot be disproved nor proved, but saying that a 9.5" rim isn't safe is another story.

And as far as the P305 tire on the widened 9.5" mag wheels not being "suitable" for auto-cross nor for roadracing courses, well, that's no biggie since the Nitto P305 tires are for off-the-line street traction, and for drag racing. They're not for throwing your car around turns at top speeds. Frankly, I'm not interested in running road races that require some hairy cornering anyway. If I was, then I sure wouldn't have bought a big tank of a car like the Marauder anyway. If you put the same amount of money and work into the suspension of a lighter car as you would put into any Marauder to make it handle better around fast turns, then the lighter car would out-handle the Marauder anyway.

If you don't believe me, then just try keeping up with a modified Mustang or any other lighter car around turns. They'll eat your car for lunch if they put the same amount of work into their suspensions as you did in yours simply because of the lesser vehicle weight. I'm sorry for drifting off the topic, but I guess this all started when someone mentioned the lack of cornering abilities with a drag radial tire, when those tires aren't for high speed competition handling anyway. QUOTE]

Same can be said about our cars for the strip, if one was only interested in 1/4 mile times then who in their right mind would buy a 4200 lb car with a little 4.6 displacement engine.Yes, that's true.

[FordNut]

Oil, superchargers, politics, religion, guns, TIRES, ....

What's next on the taboo subjects?

BTW, Billy... I agree that you CAN use the Nitto DRs on the street. But they are basically the same thing as cheater slicks. Meant to get around the racing rules that require DOT street legal tires. Not really meant for day-to-day street use. The fact that so many get away with it attests to the quality of the Nitto tires, but doesn't change their intended purpose.

[BillyGman]

Oil, superchargers, politics, religion, guns, TIRES, ....

What's next on the taboo subjects?

BTW, Billy... I agree that you CAN use the Nitto DRs on the street. But they are basically the same thing as cheater slicks. Meant to get around the racing rules that require DOT street legal tires. Not really meant for day-to-day street use. The fact that so many get away with it attests to the quality of the Nitto tires, but doesn't change their intended purpose.Fordnut, even though I'm not so sure that what you're saying in the quote above is simply the only way to look at it, I do respect your opinion, and you have made an intelligent set of comments on that, which aren't far fetched, and are at the very worst, thought provoking. So I can live with that, and I can let it go at that w/out throwing a whole bunch more fuel on this fire. I really do appreciate your veiwpoint on this. But you haven't come out and called everyone of us "fools" simply because we've chosen to use drag radials on the street, nor have you come out and claimed that the Nitto tire company is supplying their customers with false information by stating that a 9.5" rim width for thier P305 tires is okay, like another member here has done. And there's the big difference. Thanks again Fordnut for your INTELLIGENT post .;)

[Dan]

Dan, you misunderstood what I was talking about, and I can see by Rick's picture that he's posted, that he sees exactly what I'm talking about. The very outer edges of a radial tire get used while cornering, but with the car just sitting still, or remaining in a straight line they do not make contact with the pavement like the center of the tread does. Therefore when you do a burnout with mega proportion while keeping the car straight (IF you ever have) then you'll simply wear the center of the tread out before you do the sides (as Rick's tire pic displays...thanks Rick.;) ).

Bill,

Is what you are referring to as the outer edge actually the shoulder area or the sidewall? If so then there is a lot of room to wiggle there and the point really can't be debated. If not and we are talking about the bottom part of the tire then I must still disagree. A radial tire will wear evenly when properly inflated. (The bottom of the tire is found by learning where the point between where the tire cups up in the middle or bulges in the middle. At this point (and only at this point) will you arrive at the ideal traction point for the tire.)

Just to be clear, the only thing that I am debating with you here is...

Originally Posted by BillyGman

I can assure you, that even on the standard radial OEM Marauder tires, the middle of the tire wears more than the extreme outer tread area. And that's because of the way that ALL radial tires sit on the rim, and the way their tread design is.

The wear as demonstrated in the photo could be attibutable to high pressure (yes, even at 28 PSI) or the centifugal forces on the tire from what is obviously a steady diet of burnouts. In either case, the area between the two vertical lines is where most of the wear is at. If, as you contend, it were the "extreme out tread area" we would see the bald spot extend much closer to the should area of the tread.

Maybe we are talking about two differnt things in which case we are both right.

Dan

[BillyGman]

Bill,

Maybe we are talking about two differnt things in which case we are both right.

DanPerhaps Dan. i don't contend the issue of the proper inflation making a difference. but my original point concerning this was about umpteen pages ago, and had to do with someone else claiming the P305 Nitto tires can be seen on a 9.5" wide rim as "rolling over" on the outter edges of the tread. And my point was, that all radial tires look like that, and that's why doing a marothon burnout while remaining in a straight line will wear the center tread first, and more thoroughly than the outer edge of the TREAD.(not the sidewall). But really, none of this is even worth the typing anymore. We've drifted way off the topic of wider, or "widest" tires available. Which was what the question of the original post was all about. perhaps we should just get back to that if there's anymore info to offer, or just let this go here.

[mungce]

......this has been a thread since the site 1st started and as I have been advised, and done is stick with what size came with my 300A, unless wheel wideing was done. I have run OEM BFGs front and rear and have found that they are very soft and will wear rapidly if not kept at the required PSI ( 32X32), yet are sticky and handle great at high speeds. I don't run my MM on the track so thats not an issue with me. I would like larger rear tires, since I went to 4:10 grears and chip change the OEM BFGs offer little traction in all forward gears if TFO. Good thing I scrafed up extras when they were selling for $56 each !

Jim Williams
Ft.Worth, Tx

[Dan]

Perhaps Dan. i don't contend the issue of the proper inflation making a difference. but my original point concerning this was about umpteen pages ago, and had to do with someone else claiming the P305 Nitto tires can be seen on a 9.5" wide rim as "rolling over" on the outter edges of the tread. And my point was, that all radial tires look like that, and that's why doing a marothon burnout while remaining in a straight line will wear the center tread first, and more thoroughly than the outer edge of the TREAD.(not the sidewall). But really, none of this is even worth the typing anymore. We've drifted way off the topic of wider, or "widest" tires available. Which was what the question of the original post was all about. perhaps we should just get back to that if there's anymore info to offer, or just let this go here.

Cool. :)

and the rest of these letters are to take up the dumb 10 character minimum requirement. :)

[BillyGman]

and the rest of these letters are to take up the dumb 10 character minimum requirement. :)
LOL....you can always do what I do. Which is this: "....................."

[Dan]

Good idea. Thanks. Will do.

[mmmmmmarauder]

I will not widen the front tires
(but their replacement will be a tire a bit wider and at least the same height)

and

I will widen my rear rims to 9.5" with 295 tires because all my life
around Chicago and it's ice and winter I have generally used all season
tires (read Michelin all season 235/15s on the Grand Marquis' and Town Cars' and Roadmasters' of my past). Since Goodyear makes a 295 Eagle (hopefully at least the same height as stock), this seems to be the only choice (assuming I don't want to have four extra tires and wheels in the garage).


I know we have been beating a dead horse here
and there is no "one answer/on size fits all", but maybe
I just don't want to be burned (AGAIN) by doing some mods
that I will NEVER notice that cost me THOUSANDS of dollars
(don't get me started on that topic!).


Merry CHRISTmas
and
Happy New Year


Peter

greekchicago@hotmail.com



:stooges:

[woaface]

Mac and Billy, thank you for those replys.

I guess then after you were to put 9.5 inch rims and 305 tires on, you could move on to things like Auburn gear and such for traction. :confused:

[BillyGman]

Mac and Billy, thank you for those replys.

I guess then after you were to put 9.5 inch rims and 305 tires on, you could move on to things like Auburn gear and such for traction. :confused:
Jimmy, there's alot of rear end "posi untis on the market, however, I cannot say that I have experience with them. I've heard Fordnut talk about how the factory Ford "posi" units just aren't that robust and don't hold up too well in many cases after about 50,000 miles, and I can't help but to assume there's some accuracy to theories like that since Jet's "trac-Lok" along with Dave's and I believe Barry's too were all reduced to toast, and so they had to get new posi units in their Marauders.

The rear ends in their cars didn't blow and therefore they still were able to drive them, however I know that Jet for one told me that he felt that his 60' times were suffereing as a result having only one wheel being powered off the line. The only thing I can tell you is that I've heard that Eaton's are pretty good for the street and strip, and if and when the Ford "trac-lok" Limited slip clutches go on my car, I might very well be getting an Eaton Posi unit. But there are a number of different ones out there.

I believe that Marty has an Auburn one in his monster. Ofcourse spools are supposed to be the ultimate in traction for the dragstrip, but you cannot use those on the street at all. Locker rears are the next best thing for traction, but atleast most of them are said to be very loud around turns. So my understanding is that the products like the Eaton and the Auburn units are the next best for traction and are some good choices for street applications. But these are the things I've read from the manufactures and from others who have used those products, so this stuff is new ground for me. I'm sure that guys like Barry, Dave, Marty, and John can shed some more light on these things since they have experience with them.

[SergntMac]

So my understanding is that the products like the Eaton and the Auburn units are the next best for traction and are some good choices for street applications. But these are the things I've read from the manufactures and from others who have used those products, so this stuff is new ground for me.
Agreed. IMHO, Eaton and Auburn are on par with each other, and both manfacturers now offer several choices that have just about all of the bases covered.

When I blew my rear end apart, I selected the Auburn. Word on the street was that they were not rebuildable, but that's not really true. If you have a problem with an Auburn differential, you can send it back for OEM rebuilding, top to bottom, recertification for under 100 bucks, with a 48 hour turn around time. That's a pretty neat deal, and something to consider when upgrading differentials.

[Canadasvt]

I put the 255/55 Goodrich KDW2 on the rear and I am very happy with them.

When the front OEM's wear out I am going with the KDW2 on the front.

The KDW2 do hook up unlike the OEM KDWS.
Is 255/55/18 the widest tire we can put on stock MM rear rims? Is this size okay with the original front 235's? It won't effect the T/C ABS?:confused: