Performance question/comparison

[jjaguda]

Hello everyone.

I just bought my '03 Marauder about two weeks ago with 52,000 hwy miles on it. I know I am using the wrong benchmark, but here I go. I also have an 04 Mustang Mach 1 - Auto. As I ubderstand it, Both cars develope a hair over 300 hp at the crank with similar torque ratings. I just took the Mach out to streach her legs - let it warm up - hit the pedal - dropped to 1st - back wheels tried to pass up the front wheels. Now I know that the MM is about 600 lbs heavier, but it does not even chirp the tires when it grabs second.

Question: are the computer programs that much different? Is the MM programed for softer upshifts at WOT?

It seems that even though the MM was marketed to an older crowd, it should still be prgramed with crisper shifts.

I guess the tires probably have something to do with the differences too. The Mach still has the stock Goodyears while the MM has the factory spec BF Comps. (Guess I'm answering my own questions as I write :cool: .)

[BillyGman]

600 lbs makes a big difference. To get a true appreciation for that, just put three other passengers in your Mach I (all of them weighing atleast 200 LBS each) and then try that same stunt. I'm sure it will not have the same results. ;)


You'll also have to consider if the torque converters of both cars have the same stall speed. If the Mach I is at a higher RPM, then that will account for some of the difference, but regardless of that, 600 LBS is definately a lot of weight!!

[MikesMerc]

I agree with Billy, most of it is the weight difference.

Combine the weight difference, along with any differences in the rear gear, and computer shift program, and there you have it.

Be aware that the stock shift on the MM is programmed to be very mild on purpose due to weight issues and the associated abuse to drivetrain parts that come with firmer shifts on heavy cars. A lot of power is "pulled out" during the upshifts in the MM.

I quick gear swap to 4.10s and a SCT tune will wak up that MM of yours!

[Mike Poore]

I agree with Billy, most of it is the weight difference.

Combine the weight difference, along with any differences in the rear gear, and computer shift program, and there you have it.

Be aware that the stock shift on the MM is programmed to be very mild on purpose due to weight issues and the associated abuse to drivetrain parts that come with firmer shifts on heavy cars. A lot of power is "pulled out" during the upshifts in the MM.

I quick gear swap to 4.10s and a SCT tune will wak up that MM of yours!
Another thing: When you go WOT? Make sure it's NOT in overdrive. There's lots of threads about our transmissions, which are very strong, they just don't like getting smacked around.:poke:

[DEFYANT]

Save me the search, but i heard you can program the computer to not engage the O/D under a preset speed. Like under 55mph the O/D will not engage. Any truth to that?

[HwyCruiser]

Billy,

You're killing me... two 200 pounders in the back of a Mustang? Even when I was at my fighting weight I never fit in the back of a Mustang. Now I barely fit in the back of the Marauder (scootch up a bit, please). :D

:lol:

[CRUZTAKER]

Save me the search, but i heard you can program the computer to not engage the O/D under a preset speed. Like under 55mph the O/D will not engage. Any truth to that?
One can re-program virtually any aspect of a car equiped with an EEC....

[BillyGman]

Billy,

You're killing me... two 200 pounders in the back of a Mustang? Even when I was at my fighting weight I never fit in the back of a Mustang. Now I barely fit in the back of the Marauder (scootch up a bit, please). :D

:lol:AAAHHHH, but those 200pounders will be squeezing in the back seat all for the worthy cause of hi-perf. experimentation and for the quest of knowledge. So they can "boldly go where no man has gone before"...infact, maybe he should have one of them on top of the roof of the car if neccessary :D

[jjaguda]

WOW!

I'm new to this site. Didn't expect such a response. THANKS!

The Mach has a 3:55 gear driving 245/45-17 Goodyears. I do not know what the stall speed is on the converter. It actually feels like it is lower than the MM. But that is just a seat of the pants feeling from a person who was once more a 5 speed person. (Miss the 5 speed once in a while but I guess I'm just getting older - Kinda like the point-and-go driving style.)

As far as spinning the rear wheels goes, this morning's "event" was unintentional. I have not stomped the Mach in a while. Been paw paw driving on the weekends just to keep everything lubricated. Guess it caught me by supprise. Also, I have not driven it in 35 degree weather. The guys on the MACH sites say the hood scoop makes a big difference in the cold air.

Mikesmerc - I know the MM has a 3:55 gear. How would 4:10 affect drivability? I like hitting the highway and winding the spedo up to a "comfortable" highway speed. As for the SCT tune, a local shop here in the New Orleans area just installed a new dyno, and, they have some folks from SCT comming in with some well known tuner for a couple of days of training. They are looking some local cars to use to train the shop tecs. I may go with a tune even without the 4:10 gear. Any suggestions on shift points/tuning the auto trans?
Again, thanks for the big response.:burnout:

[jjaguda]

One last note . . .

I can fit my five year old in the back seat.:)

[Patrick]

WOW!

I'm new to this site. Didn't expect such a response. THANKS!

The Mach has a 3:55 gear driving 245/45-17 Goodyears. I do not know what the stall speed is on the converter. It actually feels like it is lower than the MM. But that is just a seat of the pants feeling from a person who was once more a 5 speed person. (Miss the 5 speed once in a while but I guess I'm just getting older - Kinda like the point-and-go driving style.)

As far as spinning the rear wheels goes, this morning's "event" was unintentional. I have not stomped the Mach in a while. Been paw paw driving on the weekends just to keep everything lubricated. Guess it caught me by supprise. Also, I have not driven it in 35 degree weather. The guys on the MACH sites say the hood scoop makes a big difference in the cold air.

Mikesmerc - I know the MM has a 3:55 gear. How would 4:10 affect drivability? I like hitting the highway and winding the spedo up to a "comfortable" highway speed. As for the SCT tune, a local shop here in the New Orleans area just installed a new dyno, and, they have some folks from SCT comming in with some well known tuner for a couple of days of training. They are looking some local cars to use to train the shop tecs. I may go with a tune even without the 4:10 gear. Any suggestions on shift points/tuning the auto trans?
Again, thanks for the big response.:burnout:

Around here just ask!!! I'll let the others answer but I do now that you should do the tune and the gears. I'll let the techs answer now!!

[BillyGman]

I originally changned the ratio to the 4.10 gears, and now I have the 4.56's. Trust me, you have absolutely nothing to worry about with the 4.10 gears on the highway. There's only a 325 RPM difference between the 3.55's and the 4.10's ratios at 70 MPH in O/D. Infact, even with the 4.56's my car is merely reving at 2700 RPM's at 70 MPH in O/D. But with the 4.10's you'll be at about 2400 RPM's. The 4.10 gears in the Marauder with it's 28" tall tire height seems to be the perfect compromise for the street and track. That's probably why Kenny Brown goes with 4.10 gear ratios in their Marauder "S" cars, which are primarily for street driving.

[DEFYANT]

One last note . . .

I can fit my five year old in the back seat.:)
Add that to the list of reasons I wanted the MM. I love the Cobra, but we are a family of 4. The cobra is not family friendly:(

[BillyGman]

Add that to the list of reasons I wanted the MM. I love the Cobra, but we are a family of 4. The cobra is not family friendly:(As much as I like sporty cars, I think that the Marauder is better looking than the Cobra or Mustangs are anyway. Which was the biggest reason why I purchased the Marauder.

[MikesMerc]

Mikesmerc - I know the MM has a 3:55 gear. How would 4:10 affect drivability? I like hitting the highway and winding the spedo up to a "comfortable" highway speed. As for the SCT tune, a local shop here in the New Orleans area just installed a new dyno, and, they have some folks from SCT comming in with some well known tuner for a couple of days of training. They are looking some local cars to use to train the shop tecs. I may go with a tune even without the 4:10 gear. Any suggestions on shift points/tuning the auto trans?


Unlike a few others here, I wasn't head over heels in love with my 4.10 gears when I got them. For a day or so I even considered swapping back. I "missed" the longer 1st and 2nd gears for smooth street acceleration. But, after I wound up the car a few times, I was covinced. The 4.10s were just so much more snappier when you were "on it" hard. After I got used to it, I'd never go back.

In the end, unless you really like the "feel" of the longer 3.55s, there isn't much to loose making the swap. You'll pick of on TQ multiplication big time and improved launches a great deal. Highway speeds are just fine as Billy mentioned. The car should have come with 4.10s from the factory IMOHO.

Its the combination of the gears and chip tune that make all the difference up. No need to reprogram the shift points. Just have the shifts "firmed up" and keep the torque converter from locking up in 1,2,3 entirely, and OD under 55 mph, and you'll be styling. That tranny tune plus the gears will make a tremendous difference.

[jjaguda]

Think I'll have to check into the 4.10 gear. Any suggestions on manufacturer?
Defyant: I love the Cobra too. When I bought the MACH I also looked at a '04 Cobra (Also did not yey know that child no. 2 wsa on the way). Like I said, I've driven a stick for a long time. I got into the Cobra, pushed in the clutch one time, got out and handed the key back to the salesman. The clutch was, and for obvious reasons, MUCH stiffer than my '02 GT. Driving in rush hour traffic would not have been much fun - even in a Cobra. Six months after discovering that little tike no.2 was on the way, I decided that if I will be driving a family car every day that it needed to be fun too. Enter my recent buy of the MM. I love it! Look forward to participating in this site. Hopefully, there are some local meets in the New Orleans area.

Thanks again everyone.

[hbarrett]

I purchased the Ford 4.10 gears and SCT tuner from Dennis Reinhart - selling dealer installed the gears. It makes the difference needed for the street and highway, and not an expensive investment. Good luck with your MM.
Howard
Think I'll have to check into the 4.10 gear. Any suggestions on manufacturer?
Defyant: I love the Cobra too. When I bought the MACH I also looked at a '04 Cobra (Also did not yey know that child no. 2 wsa on the way). Like I said, I've driven a stick for a long time. I got into the Cobra, pushed in the clutch one time, got out and handed the key back to the salesman. The clutch was, and for obvious reasons, MUCH stiffer than my '02 GT. Driving in rush hour traffic would not have been much fun - even in a Cobra. Six months after discovering that little tike no.2 was on the way, I decided that if I will be driving a family car every day that it needed to be fun too. Enter my recent buy of the MM. I love it! Look forward to participating in this site. Hopefully, there are some local meets in the New Orleans area.

Thanks again everyone.

[BillyGman]

Think I'll have to check into the 4.10 gear. Any suggestions on manufacturer?
. As far as the gears, stay with Ford Motor sports ring & pinion gears. They're made well, and usually easier to install in a rear end that already has Ford gears (like our Marauders come with). I know, because I performed two gear changes on my Marauder myself. ;) :banana2: