The definition of "street car"?

[MikesMerc]

This should be a fun topic. Obviously everyone's definition of what a "street car" is may be different, so there should be a lot of variety in peoples opinions.

The reason I started the thread is due to some commentary by Billy G regarding what, in his personal opinion only, is meant by a true "street" car. His definition was so narrow (not wrong...just narrow) it got me thinking as to what other's might think.

Here's what Billy said :

"I just like it to be well known when anyone who runs multi-position chips that include a specific and more aggressive engine tune for 100 octane race gas [sic] that these accomplishments were made with these things, and that the cars that they're done with are NOT as fast as that in street trim. And when I say "STREET" trim, I mean with 93 octane gas, and both headlights installed, just as the car is driven on the street."

Interesting opinion indeed. Not incorrect (as nobody's opinion can be wrong), but a bit narrow of a definition for many guys who run hopped up cars on the street.

Personally, I'd agree with the headlights comment. You should have your OEM equipment fully operational. But 100 octane race gas? No way. Around here you can get 100 octane unleaded CAM which is perfectly safe for all modern motors and is perfectly safe for all catalytic converters. In fact, there is nothing about the CAM gas that makes it "race" gas as it is perfectly legal for street use on pollution controlled vehicles. Not only that, but its all I run now...strip or street, cruising or commuting.

So, its easy to see how everyone's opinion might be different.

In contrast to Billy's narrow definition is Fun Ford's definition of True Street. I won't get into the details, but suffuce it to say that a closed hood, street legal rubber, and a full exhaust will get you most of the way there.

For me, my personal definition of true street is the ability for the car to run in day to day duty on the street with reliability very near to OEM levels, fully legal equipment (tires, exhaust, etc), and all of the creature comforts that came OEM are working (power windows, AC, etc).

This thread is meant for fun conversation only! No attacks or flames! And, Billy, pardon my use of your comment from that other thread. It was meant as a good example of everyone's differing opinion, not an attack on your opinion at all:)

So everybody, what's your definition of a "street car"??

[TechHeavy]

This should be a fun topic. Obviously everyone's definition of what a "street car" is may be different, so there should be a lot of variety in peoples opinions.

The reason I started the thread is due to some commentary by Billy G regarding what, in his personal opinion only, is meant by a true "street" car. His definition was so narrow (not wrong...just narrow) it got me thinking as to what other's might think.

Here's what Billy said :

"I just like it to be well known when anyone who runs multi-position chips that include a specific and more aggressive engine tune for 100 octane race gas [sic] that these accomplishments were made with these things, and that the cars that they're done with are NOT as fast as that in street trim. And when I say "STREET" trim, I mean with 93 octane gas, and both headlights installed, just as the car is driven on the street."

Interesting opinion indeed. Not incorrect (as nobody's opinion can be wrong), but a bit narrow of a definition for many guys who run hopped up cars on the street.

Personally, I'd agree with the headlights comment. You should have your OEM equipment fully operational. But 100 octane race gas? No way. Around here you can get 100 octane unleaded CAM which is perfectly safe for all modern motors and is perfectly safe for all catalytic converters. In fact, there is nothing about the CAM gas that makes it "race" gas as it is perfectly legal for street use on pollution controlled vehicles. Not only that, but its all I run now...strip or street, cruising or commuting.

So, its easy to see how everyone's opinion might be different.

In contrast to Billy's narrow definition is Fun Ford's definition of True Street. I won't get into the details, but suffuce it to say that a closed hood, street legal rubber, and a full exhaust will get you most of the way there.

For me, my personal definition of true street is the ability for the car to run in day to day duty on the street with reliability very near to OEM levels, fully legal equipment (tires, exhaust, etc), and all of the creature comforts that came OEM are working (power windows, AC, etc).

This thread is meant for fun conversation only! No attacks or flames! And, Billy, pardon my use of your comment from that other thread. It was meant as a good example of everyone's differing opinion, not an attack on your opinion at all:)

So everybody, what's your definition of a "street car"??
Hey Mike.

Anything that's street legal! If you can get 100 octane, good for you. I have to drive about 15 miles to get it, but that's me... All OEM DOT regulated equipment should be operational. :)

[Smokie]

To me it means you can legally get insurance, registration, tag and drive it on public roads.

[BruteForce]

To me it means you can legally get insurance, registration, tag and drive it on public roads.

^^ what he said ^^

[Deebar]

I agree with your definition 100% Mike. Street trim= OEM (ungutted) appearance, and street legal rubber. I also run Cam 2 100 and see no problem with running a better fuel, she loves it. Must be like gatorade to that thirsty b*&$h.

[jstevens]

I agree with everything above. The only reason I won't have nitto widened rims is I don't think I could commute in the snow with them.

[Bluerauder]

So everybody, what's your definition of a "street car"??
A street car is sort of like a bus that runs on tracks ... :rofl: The last one ran in Baltimore in the mid-1960's. See also "Trolley". Sorry. :rolleyes:

At Mason-Dixon Dragway on 23 October, the Marauder group there ran in four different "Street" classes as defined by the NVMC. So, it appears that there are accepted gradations even within the "Street" category.

1. Stock Street --- as it came out of the box from the dealer.
2. Pure Street --- mods shy of power adders.
3. Extreme Street --- Superchargers, plus.
4. Pro Street --- Everything goes as long as its on "street tires". 10.5" max is what I recall.

Nine Marauders ran that night across the first three classes and brought home 3 trophies. Most every car including Mustangs and Corvettes that ran that night came into the track under its own power on street tires (all Marauders in a convoy). The one exception that I remember was the Calloway Corvette that had its own pretty fancy trailer.

[sailsmen]

To me Street means the car you drive to the track.

[Tallboy]

To me, a "street car" is one that is run on the race track EXACTLY as it is run on the street.

[Great thread, Mike!:beer: ]

[Marauder386]

Sure wish NASCAR was still STOCK car racing....ahh the memories...ANYWAY, street car to me is street legal from pie hole to exhaust and properly operating to the DOT of that state....including tax tag and title....

:cool:

[SergntMac]

Great topic, Mike, thank you for inviting this exchange of thought.

In my heart, I found the commentary to be leaning towards the lighter side, joking. I could not believe what I was reading, and I know it's too easy to pluck out a niche topic from that thread, and cry foul. I found it so funny, I decided not to interrupt. Barry has the baddest N/A on the blacktop, hands down. The rest was a full bladder...

IMHO...What is "street legal," is what ever pulls up beside me at a stop light. If you got the balls to push whatever it is that you own out on the citizen pavement, our "public way," and up alongside the rest of us citizens already driving there, that's fine with me. Pull up, buckle down, shut up and drive!

I drive my stuff to work, and around town, weather permitting, and I am always ready. If y'all do it this way too, we'll meet...Somewhere, some time, we will find each other. If we do not, call me, we can narrow the search?

When your stuff meets up with my stuff at a stop light, and y'all really wanna try me, that's all I need to know. Nod, and we're on. Race gas, headlight out, slicks, 4:56, snow tires, all that trash...What ever. I don't bargain excuses nor explanations. A street car works the street.

Rules? Just one...Run what you brung.

Don't worry, we'll find a spot to stage is all safely...

[merc406]

[QUOTE=Bluerauder]

1. Stock Street --- as it came out of the box from the dealer.
2. Pure Street --- mods shy of power adders.
3. Extreme Street --- Superchargers, plus.
4. Pro Street --- Everything goes as long as its on "street tires".




That just about cover's it ^^^ :burnout:

[FordNut]

To me, a street car is one that you can drive around for an evening cruise, totally street legal. One that you can commute back and forth to work in. One that you can hop in and drive 400 miles to a meet, drag race it, then drive it back home. Is it still a "street car" with the headlight removed, drag slicks bolted on, 100 octane gas, nitrous, race program on the chip? Hell, yes, it's the same car that drove through the gates, isn't it? But it's no longer in "street trim" is it?

[CBT]

This post has inspired me to name my streetcar, and it shall be Desire. "STELLAAAAAAAA!!!! I coulda been a contenda!!":D

[Bradley G]

If I didn't know any better, I'd swear that you are mostly talking about you own car!;)

And a very nice one at that!:D
Bradley G

To me, a street car is one that you can drive around for an evening cruise, totally street legal. One that you can commute back and forth to work in. One that you can hop in and drive 400 miles to a meet, drag race it, then drive it back home. Is it still a "street car" with the headlight removed, drag slicks bolted on, 100 octane gas, nitrous, race program on the chip? Hell, yes, it's the same car that drove through the gates, isn't it? But it's no longer in "street trim" is it?

[Paul T. Casey]

Pretty much Mac's definition here. If you can run it on the street, it's a street car. I guess that implies all safety equipment functional, some sort of muffler system, no slicks. We get an 8.5 second Nova down at the beach cruises every time. The guy pops the DOT tires on the back and drives 15 miles each way. He says if it were 16, he wouldn't make it though. It sure looks to be a handful.

[dwasson]

At a minimum, a street car should be able to stop at a light for three minutes, drive in stop and go traffic for ten miles and and drive past a cop without making him look for his decibel meter.

For my purposes I want enough I want a lot more.

[BillyGman]

Ofcourse MAC has to get his digs in as usual...but other than that, I'll just pretend he only shared the part of his post that was actually answering your question Mike.:rolleyes:


And let me say, that my quote that you've posted in this thread was out of context with the entire post, and even with the thread that it was taken from.......but I'm not offended by that in anyway. I just wanted to point that out. I agree with what Tallboy stated........if your car is raced EXACTLY the way that you drive it back and forth to work, or when you take the wife and kids to the movies or where ever, then it's in "street trim" as I had mentioned, and as Fordnut has pointed out also. I was talking about a Marauder in "street trim" meaning it being just as you drive it when you're with the family, or to work, or to the resteraunt. Because if you get challenged on the street by a Camaro, mustang, or anything else, and the traffic is light enough not to be taking a major risk, and you decide to run against the car in question until the next traffic light, it's going to be on your way to work, coming home, or on your way to the movie or whatever. and you'll have your headlights in, and likely only 93 or 92 octane in your tank. Now puleeeeeezze don't everyone start jumping in here to be politically correct and say that I'm out of line by mentioning street challenges, because I'm sure that almost everyone who pays any attention to HP figures before they purchase a car, and certainly if they're willing to spend enough money to supercharge that car later on, then at one time or another, they've answered a challenge ON THE STREET. Ofcourse that shouldn't become a daily thing, nor even a weekly thing, but it happens once in awhile, and I think it's a joke if some people won't admit it, and that even gets hypocritical.......

But my point in that other thread that Mike extracted that quote from, was that a Marauder (being mostly a family car rather than any "sports" car) is not in street trim when there's race gas in the tank, and having one headlight out. I mean c'mon...are you gonna drive home from the resteraunt on Friday night with one headlight taken out so that you can run a faster ET? Again I say....get real...... I said "street trim" not "street legal" but if you want to split hairs, then having one headlight out is NOT street legal.

[FordNut]

Ofcourse MAC has to get his digs in as usual...but other than that, I'll just pretend he only shared the part of his post that was actually answering your question Mike.:rolleyes:


And let me say, that my quote that you've posted in this thread was out of context with the entire post, and even with the thread that it was taken from.......but I'm not offended by that in anyway. I just wanted to point that out. I agree with what Tallboy stated........if your car is raced EXACTLY the way that you drive it back and forth to work, or when you take the wife and kids to the movies or where ever, then it's in "street trim" as I had mentioned, and as Fordnut has pointed out also. I was talking about a Marauder in "street trim" meaning it being just as you drive it when you're with the family, or to work, or to the resteraunt. Because if you get challenged on the street by a Camaro, mustang, or anything else, and the traffic is light enough not to be taking a major risk, and you decide to run against the car in question until the next traffic light, it's going to be on your way to work, coming home, or on your way to the movie or whatever. and you'll have your headlights in, and likely only 93 or 92 octane in your tank. Now puleeeeeezze don't everyone start jumping in here to be politically correct and say that I'm out of line by mentioning street challenges, because I'm sure that almost everyone who pays any attention to HP figures before they purchase a car, and certainly if they're willing to spend enough money to supercharge that car later on, then at one time or another, they've answered a challenge ON THE STREET. Ofcourse that shouldn't become a daily thing, nor even a weekly thing, but it happens once in awhile, and I think it's a joke if some people won't admit it, and that even gets hypocritical.......

But my point in that other thread that Mike extracted that quote from, was that a Marauder (being mostly a family car rather than any "sports" car) is not in street trim when there's race gas in the tank, and having one headlight out. I mean c'mon...are you gonna drive home from the resteraunt on Friday night with one headlight taken out so that you can run a faster ET? Again I say....get real...... I said 'street trim" not "street legal" but if you insist on splitting hairs, then having one headlight out is NOT street legal.
Okay, if that's the case how valid are the numbers anybody has posted? Did you let air out of your rear tires before running? Doesn't everybody? Then it's not "street trim", is it? i.e. "EXACTLY as you drive it on the street" Remove the spare tire from the trunk? Not street trim...

But you do have a valid point about the headlight (if we're splitting hairs). It's no longer "street legal" and wouldn't even be allowed to run in "true street" class that way.

[BillyGman]

Llike I said....hair splitting...I knew it would come to that.........

[CRUZTAKER]

As far as fuel, I have three 100+ octane pump stations in my area. Pump stations. That means you do not need a container to purchase the fuel. It's LEGAL STREET FUEL, and does in no way stray from "street trim". If one chooses to pull up to the economy pump and fill up rather than drive over to that lonely LEGAL Cam2 pump over by the deisel pumps, that's solely the users choice.

Furthermore, and let me add that I DO NOT DO THIS EVER, the Mickey Thompson E/T streets are DOT STREET LEGAL. Insane to drive around town, but theoretically....:rolleyes:

The headlight thing is about the only non-street thing I do, and if one really wants to get picky, in Ohio, as long as one headlamp with both fog lamps are on, you'll never get pulled over....may look odd, but not technically illegal.
I guess I'll have make one of those vaccuum cleaner hose shop vac attachment looking ram air thingies I saw somewhere around our gallery to get around the headlight issue....cause I need that cheat to keep up with the S/C'd cars ya know!:P

[CRUZTAKER]

Did you let air out of your rear tires before running? ...... Remove the spare tire from the trunk?
Umm....I occationally forget to put air in my tires and drive some 40 miles home on 28lbs.....and umm....I don't have a spare....it has a slick mounted on it....:depress:

I'm a mess I tell ya....a mess!;)

[Bradley G]

It is just our competitive nature!I think it is amusing to see and hear all the opinions and attitudes churning around here!I can appreciate both points of discussion.I do feel that tire pressure and minor weight adjustments; removeing spare are all in the name of being competitive.If you don't want to turn off your a/c and overdrive that is your own deal!

Bradley G


Llike I said....hair splitting...I knew it would come to that.........

[BillyGman]

Umm....I occationally forget to put air in my tires and drive some 40 miles home on 28lbs.....and umm....I don't have a spare....it has a slick mounted on it....:depress:

I'm a mess I tell ya....a mess!;)LOL...once again Barry, I appreciate you making light of this....that's cool, and I needed another laught today. (I mean that...thanks pal)

Barry, I don't think nor have I meant to suggest that you, Fordnut, nor anyone is "cheating" in anyway because of what you do to your car to run on the track. I just think that we should always look at what we all do to get our cars to run the way they do on the track, and consider how close that is to how fast they actually are (not how fast they can be) on the public streets, and make mention of these things occassionally, just so that nobody ever gets the wrong impressions. That's all I meant. As I've said in that other thread earlier today, I don't feel in the least bit threatened nor afraid of anyone coming close to, or beating my ET's. If you do, then more power to ya, and that's just great. As far as the 100 octane gas pumps, they have those where I live too, but you're not allowed by the gas station attendents, to put it directly in your tank. It must be taken home in a gas can. There must be a reason for that. But regardless of what that reason is, the point is that almost everyone runs 92 or 93 pump gas daily, and NOT 100 octane gas. If you do run that every day that you drive your car, then obviously you wouldn't need a three or four position chip like you have.

[mpearce]

In fact, there is nothing about the CAM gas that makes it "race" gas as it is perfectly legal for street use on pollution controlled vehicles. Not only that, but its all I run now...strip or street, cruising or commuting.

I will agree with Mike on this topic. I have 100 unleaded CAM2 gas available wherever I go. I also love the way the car runs on it so much, that I almost always use it exclusively. This is, unless I go on a long road trip, and then I use the 93, 94. Just as Barry said...those pumps are located right next to the regular pumps at the gas station, and there's nothing on the pumps that state you can't use that gas on the street.

Come as you are.

-Mat

[BillyGman]

and how many here do you think actually use the 100 octane EVERY time they go to get gas? And for the entire tankful? If you use it all the time, and don't have a special amd more aggressive tune in your chip, then you're ripping yourself off, or you're rteally not using it for EVERY tankful. What a game of semantics this is........

[CRUZTAKER]

and how many here do you think actually use the 100 octane EVERY time they go to get gas.............
At $5.16 a gallon, not too many I bet!!!

I know of one person that I believe trys to exclusively run 100....and get this Billy....he's a Trilogy owner.

[MikesMerc]

Great opinions so far! I knew we'd get a lot of diversity and I think that's cool.

Billy, as far as race gas is concerned, there are no "semantics" at all here. Frankly, there is just no difference between choosing 87 vs 91 vs 93 octane, and choosing 100 vs 93 vs 91 vs 87octane. Its just another choice to make at the pump. Just because there are a good number of folks around here that choose not to run CAM 100 doesn't mean its not street gas. Most folks don't run the kooks headers either, but that doesn't make kooks not for the street.

I think you may be confusing your own personal choice of fuel for what you beleive defines a street car.

From reading the thread, it seems I am not alone in running 100 CAM everyday either. Like I said, I run it while cruising as well as commuting to work. Bottom line is that the gas I run at the track is the same stuff I run every day on the street. I think that fits your definition doesn't it?



As far as Run what you Brung, well that's pretty much the law of the wild out there. I see some pretty crazy ***** on Woodward avenue. Race gas? Headlight out? LOL...there are guys out there that would eat most of us for breakfast without pausing to sip thier coffee. They don't care too much about whether you can commute 500 miles to work or not. They just smile and hand you your a$$ back on a platter if you don't come with your A game.

Neat topic indeed:)

[QWK SVT]

Here's my stab at the rules...

BODY
The car must retain its original appearance and profiles. Aftermarket spoilers are permitted, but not if they look ricey.

STREET EQUIPMENT
Stock OEM safety glass required in all locations. Working headlights, tail lights, brake lights, turn signals, windshield wiper motor/arms/blades, and horn required. All vehicles must be self-starting at all times. All Original safety equipment (i.e. airbags) must still be in place, and functional, if need be. If you can get a legit ticket, for what you've done, shame on you.

INTERIOR
Upholstered seats required in ALL stock locations. If Ford gave us 5 seats, and seatbelts, that's the rules to play by. Interior, including dashboard may be modified or lightened if done in a clean, neat manner - New dash, cool. No dash, not cool.

FUEL
Any generally available "pump gasoline" - if you can buy it in your area, good for you. If you're running leaded fuel - shame on you. Fuel should come from a proper tank - fuel cells need not apply for "street" classification.

NITROUS OXIDE / SUPERCHARGERS / TURBOCHARGERS
Cool in my books (though I'd never use a bottle, myself)...

EXHAUST
Cats - Yes. Mufflers - Yes. Must be able to pass emissions testing. No "gutted" equipment. Loud as your friendly local LEO will allow.;)

TIRES & WHEELS
DOT approved and marked tires, front and rear. If you can't won't drive on this tire, if it rained a little, it ain't right. If you must mount these, after arriving at the track, it ain't right. The tire size is limited to whatever tire you can fit into the fender opening without protruding outside of rear fender area more than 1". You can play with the tire pressure, as you deem fit. Sometimes I run with a little less pressure on the street, just for fun.

SUSPENSION
Suspension components must all remain in stock locations. Sway bars must still be there.

CREDENTIALS
Valid driver's license, vehicle registration, license plates and proof of insurance.
Don't have all the above, too bad so sad :bigcry:
ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS
Basically, be prepared to make a 300-mile trip to the track in the middle of summer and run it, as is. If you can live without A/C, fine. I could not. I can, however, live without the spare...

[teamrope]

A street car is sort of like a bus that runs on tracks ...
What ^^^^he said. :D

[Tallboy]

Okay, if that's the case how valid are the numbers anybody has posted? Did you let air out of your rear tires before running? Doesn't everybody? Then it's not "street trim", is it? i.e. "EXACTLY as you drive it on the street" Remove the spare tire from the trunk? Not street trim...I guess that makes me "anybody". :D
I do not let air out of the rear tires.
My full size spare stays in the trunk.

[BillyGman]

At $5.16 a gallon, not too many I bet!!!

I know of one person that I believe trys to exclusively run 100....and get this Billy....he's a Trilogy owner.
LOL...what's this? A quiz show? tell us who you're speaking of. What's the big secret? Anyway, I only know of two guys on this board who make the claim to running 100 octan in their cars on a daily basis, and Mike is one of them. All I have to say about that is that if you guys can do that, then you're more serious about hor rodding your Marauder than I am, and that's great if you can afford that stuff. but if that's the case, then you're in a rather elite and exclusive group amongst Marauder owners, and that group is quite small I'm sure. The vast majority of us (S/Ced or N/A) do NOT run 100 octane every day. And I don't think it makes any difference whether the few that do, are Triology owners or not. How many members do we have on here? Is it in the neighborhood of 2,000 now? And out of 1,000's, perhaps there are a half dozen(if even that) who literally run straight 100 octane daily?

[MikesMerc]

Here's my stab at the rules...

BODY
The car must retain its original appearance and profiles. Aftermarket spoilers are permitted, but not if they look ricey.

STREET EQUIPMENT
Stock OEM safety glass required in all locations. Working headlights, tail lights, brake lights, turn signals, windshield wiper motor/arms/blades, and horn required. All vehicles must be self-starting at all times. All Original safety equipment (i.e. airbags) must still be in place, and functional, if need be. If you can get a legit ticket, for what you've done, shame on you.

INTERIOR
Upholstered seats required in ALL stock locations. If Ford gave us 5 seats, and seatbelts, that's the rules to play by. Interior, including dashboard may be modified or lightened if done in a clean, neat manner - New dash, cool. No dash, not cool.

FUEL
Any generally available "pump gasoline" - if you can buy it in your area, good for you. If you're running leaded fuel - shame on you. Fuel should come from a proper tank - fuel cells need not apply for "street" classification.

NITROUS OXIDE / SUPERCHARGERS / TURBOCHARGERS
Cool in my books (though I'd never use a bottle, myself)...

EXHAUST
Cats - Yes. Mufflers - Yes. Must be able to pass emissions testing. No "gutted" equipment. Loud as your friendly local LEO will allow.;)

TIRES & WHEELS
DOT approved and marked tires, front and rear. If you can't won't drive on this tire, if it rained a little, it ain't right. If you must mount these, after arriving at the track, it ain't right. The tire size is limited to whatever tire you can fit into the fender opening without protruding outside of rear fender area more than 1". You can play with the tire pressure, as you deem fit. Sometimes I run with a little less pressure on the street, just for fun.

SUSPENSION
Suspension components must all remain in stock locations. Sway bars must still be there.

CREDENTIALS
Valid driver's license, vehicle registration, license plates and proof of insurance.
Don't have all the above, too bad so sad :bigcry:
ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS
Basically, be prepared to make a 300-mile trip to the track in the middle of summer and run it, as is. If you can live without A/C, fine. I could not. I can, however, live without the spare...

This is probably a very safe set of rules. Some of it still may be too far for my personal taste. I see a lot of cars get "cut up" and loose a lot of OEM comfort, ride quality, etc and still be qualified for true street. But, its hard to deny that these are street cars to the guys that run and build them.



And out of 1,000's, perhaps there are a half dozen(if even that) who literally run straight 100 octane daily?

I'd say this estimate may be pretty accurate. That said, I guess I'm still not sure how the "number of people" who actually choose to run a certain street legal fuel, or not, makes, or does not make, their car a street car (or be in street trim)? The same thing can be said for everything else we do too. If only one person on the board was purchasing and using a certain very expensive brand of lubricant, would it make that lubricant "non street"? You can apply this to fuels, lubes, (street legal) parts, and all modifications.

For example, if there are only 50-something trilogy blown MM in the country (out of 11+ thousand), wouldn't that mean that the trilogy blown cars are no longer "street" cars. Think about it, to many MM owners the trilogy kit is VERY expensive, voids the drivetrain warranty, and is VERY over the top for their personal comfort levels.

Again, I still think you're letting what you feel you are personally comfortable with dictate what you think street trim is. Just because running 100 CAM seems "radical" to you, it doesn't to others.

And for everyone reading the thread, I am referring to CAM 100 octane which is unleaded, approved for pollution controlled vehicles, and fully street legal. I am NOT referring to leaded race fuels that usually have octane ratings much higher than 100 like Turbo Blue and others.

Billy, besides this fuel thing, I think my idea is closer to yours than most others. I like the idea of knowing at the track just how fast my car is on the street. The guy is the next lane isn't going to wait for you to empty your trunk, adjust your tire pressure, remove your headlight, and turn on your bottle warmer:) If you want to know how fast you are "on the street" than you have to run it exactly that way at the track. I do hear what your saying. My only point is that there are some persons on the board that may feel more comfortable running a different level of day to day street trim than you or I are comfortable with. And, as long as its legal, its hard not say they are not in street trim:)

[CRUZTAKER]

..... I am NOT referring to leaded race fuels that usually have octane ratings much higher than 100 like Turbo Blue and others.
Correct...I only use the 114 that I obtain in an approved container at one of several local stations when I am competing in a track situation and there is money to be had. These fuels are not to be pumped directly into vehicles by law. They are also not banned in any race rules as long as they do not contain nitro-methane and such.

[cyclone03]

OK I'll admit I skipped about a page and a half to jump to this post,for the most part I'm LMAO!


What is a "street Car"?
On the street it's as Mac Said,"what pulls up next to you" Thats it, no rules.

Test and Tune Friday,or Wednesday,Saturday or any other day,A street car is what drove to the track with a plate on it.

Formal racing?Whatever is "legal" for whatever class you run.

I don't care that Barry pulls a head light,ices his intake,runs ET streets or takes a dump before he runs I have no dought that his car is "race ready" and has just about everybody on this board,including the supercharged guys,covered better than anyone here.

How can I say "even the supercharged guys" you ask?
Barry Knows How To RACE His CAR,or package in bracket racer speak.

Light to light,day to day,Barry has just about everything covered.

OK no way,how can that be?

Line up next to him at the track then check your time slip,more than likely he LEFT you at the gate,maybe by 1 secound,thats how he has everybody covered,he DRIVES HIS car.

[BillyGman]

since we'rer on the topic of fuels specifically, what do you guys think of this?

http://www.pricechemical.com/ this gasoline, actually had Nitromethane in it, and is sold for street cars!!!! When I found this, it sounded crazy!!!

http://www.pricechemical.com/order/

[AzMarauder]

And out of 1,000's, perhaps there are a half dozen(if even that) who literally run straight 100 octane daily?
From a soon to be MM Owner... what octane does the stock 03 MM require?

[Bluerauder]

From a soon to be MM Owner... what octane does the stock 03 MM require?
Minimum 91 --- but they only sell 93, 89, and 87 around here !!! So, I'm using 93.

[AzMarauder]

Minimum 91 --- but they only sell 93, 89, and 87 around here !!! So, I'm using 93.
I've never figured out why... but all we can get down here is 91. Would have thought in the hotter climes they would give us more octane but no luck.

[Mike Poore]

This should be a fun topic. Obviously everyone's definition of what a "street car" is may be different, so there should be a lot of variety in peoples opinions.

Here's what Billy said :

"I just like it to be well known when anyone who runs multi-position chips that include a specific and more aggressive engine tune for 100 octane race gas [sic] that these accomplishments were made with these things, and that the cars that they're done with are NOT as fast as that in street trim. And when I say "STREET" trim, I mean with 93 octane gas, and both headlights installed, just as the car is driven on the street."

Interesting opinion indeed. Not incorrect (as nobody's opinion can be wrong), but a bit narrow of a definition for many guys who run hopped up cars on the street.

So everybody, what's your definition of a "street car"??
STREET CAR: Any car you put a license plate on and get through whatever laws apply. I know a guy who runs a tubbed out 55 chevy that turns 9's, and he gets it through PA inspection! Pushing the limits? You bet. but it's on the street, and thus, a "STREET CAR". ;)

[merc406]

STREET CAR: Any car you put a license plate on and get through whatever laws apply. I know a guy who runs a tubbed out 55 chevy that turns 9's, and he gets it through PA inspection! Pushing the limits? You bet. but it's on the street, and thus, a "STREET CAR". ;)




Kinda like these two Mike? :burnout: Greg drove his to the Woodward Dream Cruise back in 03. :burnout:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2002/08/matchrace/index.shtml

[MikesMerc]

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2002/08/matchrace/index.shtml

Sweet! Those are some mighty nasty street brawlers!

[CRUZTAKER]

Sweet! Those are some mighty nasty street brawlers!
And how!!!

Note: the jpg name of these two thumbnails....cook and rice....:lol:

[merc406]

More on Cookin rice :burnout: http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2002/01/cooksgalaxie/ :burnout:
pic's sort of tell it all.

[Bluerauder]

And how!!!

Note: the jpg name of these two thumbnails....cook and rice....:lol:
Greg Cook (1963 and 1/2 Galaxie) and Travis Rice (1965 Galaxie) :D
What a coincidence .....

[QWK SVT]

This is probably a very safe set of rules. Some of it still may be too far for my personal taste. I see a lot of cars get "cut up" and loose a lot of OEM comfort, ride quality, etc and still be qualified for true street. But, its hard to deny that these are street cars to the guys that run and build them.Curious as to what's too far? I basically put the "rules" together with one thought in mind - if you can't drive it to the track (not just a couple of miles), you can't really call it street trim.



Billy, besides this fuel thing, I think my idea is closer to yours than most others. I like the idea of knowing at the track just how fast my car is on the street. The guy is the next lane isn't going to wait for you to empty your trunk, adjust your tire pressure, remove your headlight, and turn on your bottle warmer:) If you want to know how fast you are "on the street" than you have to run it exactly that way at the track. I do hear what your saying. My only point is that there are some persons on the board that may feel more comfortable running a different level of day to day street trim than you or I are comfortable with. And, as long as its legal, its hard not say they are not in street trim:)I agree - to an extent. I've held off buying slicks for the truck, because it doesn't reflect the "real world street" but I do see a set of Nitto 555R's in my future. I've been known to lower tire pressure, before driving on the street, if I'm... uhm... concerned about excessive tire slipage :burnout:

Out of curiousity, how do you guys feel about cool-down periods? We all do it at the track, in an effort to squeeze that last tenth, or so... Hell, we'll even pop the hood, and some people put bags of ice on top of the intake, in an effort to cool down faster. Obviously, there's no cool-down period, from red light to red light...

Personally, I view hot lapping as a "quantity over quality" approach. To me, that's just not as much fun. It rushing through the motions, without taking the time to reflect, and enjoy all that goes on at the track... Incl;uding the occasional :bs: session :D

[SergntMac]

Ofcourse MAC has to get his digs in as usual...but other than that, I'll just pretend he only shared the part of his post that was actually answering your question Mike.
LOL...Billy, I couldn't say hello to you without you calling it a dig. It's a trade, you grab your moments too.

Out of curiousity, how do you guys feel about cool-down periods? We all do it at the track, in an effort to squeeze that last tenth, or so... Hell, we'll even pop the hood, and some people put bags of ice on top of the intake, in an effort to cool down faster. Obviously, there's no cool-down period, from red light to red light.
IMHO, I think it's overvalued. I tried it a few times on my N/A Marauder, but didn't see any real benefit. Keeping things as cool as possible has some value in grabbing for the lowest ET you can reach for, but considering how fast our 4.6 generate heat, I'd expect the special effort involved to have no real value after your first burnout. The only way to know, is to monitor IAT temps, and I don't see many of us reporting much live monitoring here, which baffles me when it's so inexpensive, and so easy to do.

Just for the fun of it, I'd like to see someone fill their N/A air box with ice, and suck outside air through that, just to see what happens. Another way to shave time from the ET, is to over inflate your front tires. 45-50 PSI will make them rolling rocks, yes, but with the least resistance to the blacktop. The next time one of y'all stop by a drag strip, give it a try?

I mod and tune my MM for what is does the most of, drive on the street/highway. I may not own the quickest MM by timeslip, but you're not going to get around me without breaking a sweat. I bought this car for fun, and this is where I have fun.

[martyo]

Just for the fun of it, I'd like to see someone fill their N/A air box with ice, and suck outside air through that, just to see what happens.

Me too. But, I want to be the guy in the car in the other lane when this is done. When the MAF starts to get wet from the moisture off the ice, and the car starts to run really ragged, that will only help to make me look faster.

Yep, even how to race has its stylistic arguments. That's what having fun in cars is all about.

[SergntMac]

Me too. But, I want to be the guy in the car in the other lane when this is done. When the MAF starts to get wet from the moisture off the ice, and the car starts to run really ragged, that will only help to make me look faster.Oh, right...None of us drive our MMs in the rain...

[martyo]

Oh, right...None of us drive our MMs in the rain...

Ya see there, Ya missed the most important part of my post.


Yep, even how to race has its stylistic arguments. That's what having fun in cars is all about.

:D

[BillyGman]

Just for the record, the quote that Mike had used from myself to start this thread, was taken from a post of mine in another thread in which I was trying to explain that comparing a Supercharged Marauder that is otherwise stock, and an N/A Marauder that runs close to the same ET's, but yet accomplishes those ET's with a much more aggressive ignition timing advance for 100 octane gasoline which CANNOT be used for 93 octane pump gas, and a removed headlight along with slicks, cannot be any indication that an N/A Marauder can be as fast as a S/Ced Marauder ON THE STREET. Because that otherwise stock Marauder that is S/Ced, can accomplish that low 13 second or perhaps even a high 12 second ET all the time, anywhere it goes, and is every bit as fast as that even ON THE STREET, while the low 13 second N/A Marauder cannot run those same ET's unless it has the 100 octane gasoline in it, along with the third position on the chip clicked in for the more aggressive 100 octane tune, and also along with the driver's side headlight yanked out of it. So in most instances, that low 13 second N/A marauder will NOT be as fast as that ON THE STREET, while the S/Ced Marauder WILL BE!!!


That's what I meant, and I think that Mike was taking my quote out of context entirely. So actually, this thread is really about a slightly different topic than my quote was about. Which is just fine with me as long as people are aware of the fact that I was speaking about another issue when I wrote the words that Mike quoted in his first post in this thread. Carry on gentlemen.......

[Tallboy]

Oh, right...None of us drive our MMs in the rain...If I'm correct, Marty was referring to the wire inside the MAF, not the exterior housing.

[Bradley G]

I wonder if there would be a significant risk trying what Mac stated.Is there enough air volume to (venturie) water into the induction.


Marty, Your car turning near 10's (guess?)is not going to need these gimicks to win at the track.

I may be all full of ****, but if water does get sucked into the engine, I would'nt like to have to pick up the pieces afterward.
Bradley G

[merc406]

LOL...Billy, I couldn't say hello to you without you calling it a dig. It's a trade, you grab your moments too.

IMHO, I think it's overvalued. I tried it a few times on my N/A Marauder, but didn't see any real benefit. Keeping things as cool as possible has some value in grabbing for the lowest ET you can reach for, but considering how fast our 4.6 generate heat, I'd expect the special effort involved to have no real value after your first burnout. The only way to know, is to monitor IAT temps, and I don't see many of us reporting much live monitoring here, which baffles me when it's so inexpensive, and so easy to do.

Just for the fun of it, I'd like to see someone fill their N/A air box with ice, and suck outside air through that, just to see what happens. Another way to shave time from the ET, is to over inflate your front tires. 45-50 PSI will make them rolling rocks, yes, but with the least resistance to the blacktop. The next time one of y'all stop by a drag strip, give it a try?






A little dry ice and a cool can will do more than manifold iceing. JMO :burnout:

[BillyGman]

A little dry ice and a cool can will do more than manifold iceing. JMO :burnout: Well now you're talking about cooling the gasoline before it enters the fuel/air mixture, and with that I agree. I haven't seen cool cans at the track lately, but perhaps those who have them aren't advertising it either. ;)

[Paul T. Casey]

quote SergntMac> Another way to shave time from the ET, is to over inflate your front tires. 45-50 PSI will make them rolling rocks, yes, but with the least resistance to the blacktop. The next time one of y'all stop by a drag strip, give it a try?< quote I pretty commonly bump my fronts to 40ish PSI prior to running. I tried morebut didn't notice any gains. Besides, by adding the 8 lbs I take out of the rears to the fronts kind of keeps the whole karmic balance of the world right for my lightening quick rt's. :rolleyes:

[SergntMac]

Well, I was just flirting with fantasy, a little brainstorming, eh? Taking a serious second look, I'd expect the same results from ice inside the N/A air box as I would from iceing the intake manifold prior to a race. Perhaps better, because the chilling affect would at least last until the end of the pass. As for contamination of the MAF from water, well, I would hope no one would have to tell you to keep the air filter in place, and at that point, I would presume that the MAF is as well protected from drops of water from melting ice, as it is while driving in the rain.

Okay...skip the ice. What about chemical freezer packs? Some of them ice cube sized lunch box reusable thingys. Throw a hand full of them in the bottom of the air box, see what develops?

EDIT: None of this means squat if you don't monitor IAT temps...IMHO.

[CRUZTAKER]

As far as the ice...I actually throw a bag on top of the PHP cover on mine and the metal cover surrounding the filter gets amazingly icey cold. Some older guy at the track one evening suggested I do it, and have done so ever since.

As far as icing my intake, it really does work well to stay consistant. I carry a bucket in the car and keep ice on the intake up until I (OCCATIONALLY PUSH) roll up to the end of the staging lanes. I then quckly throw the bags into the car and off I go.

The burnout brings up the heat a little, but no where near the heat that I have once I end the run. 20 minutes of ice pack between runs and I can actually get the temp needle (that normally sits at 20 mph mark) down to zero, as if the car had sat all night. I frequently stall after my burnout because the car is still cold.
Note, the oil isn't cold, like being parked all night, so I have no fear of engine damage when I engage the line loc and let'r rip.:cool:

[MikesMerc]

Curious as to what's too far? I basically put the "rules" together with one thought in mind - if you can't drive it to the track (not just a couple of miles), you can't really call it street trim.




Not too far in restrictions, too far the other way. In my opinion only, those rules would allow many mods that degrade OEM functionality of the car. Many cars fitting your rules would be on the ragged edge of street legal and reliability, let alone have all the usual stuff a street car has like a radio, ac, etc, etc. That's just my take on it.

Not criticizing your take on it at all! As is the point of the thread, everyone's take of what a street car is is different:)




I think that Mike was taking my quote out of context entirely. So actually, this thread is really about a slightly different topic than my quote was about. Which is just fine with me as long as people are aware of the fact that I was speaking about another issue when I wrote the words that Mike quoted in his first post in this thread. Carry on gentlemen.......

I think everyone understands the point of the thread Billy:) And no one here is scrutinizing your quote.

Be that as it may, there are a few folks here who are missing the point of the thread, and that is that everyone's definition of "street" is quite different.

For example, you make it sound like a car that has "a more aggressive ignition timing advance for 100 octane gasoline which CANNOT be used for 93 octane pump gas, and a removed headlight along with slicks" is somehow not streeetable. That simply isn't true. If Barry wanted to, he could certainly run that way EVERY DAY ON THE STREET. Even the MT ET Street tires are DOT legal. Just because that set up is too radical for YOU, doesn't mean it isn't streetable. That's just your opinion. Others will, have, and do run their cars on the street at that trim level all the time. It's very common here in Detroit.



LOL...I think the diversity in the opinions of what is street and what isn't is wider than I thought:)

[FastMerc]

OK boys As soon as I can I will post a pic of my 67 Pontiac its a fast street car if you will,you will see the mods in the pic.Barry and Matt have both seen it but now it is under reconstruction,This has been to cool of post lots of:rofl: but still fun to hear everyones opinion.

[BillyGman]

My point wasn't about the topic of this thread, but that the topic and context of my post in that other thread that you pulled that quote of mine from was and is entirely different. I don't really care to debate what a "STREET car" is or isn't. That's up to the individual to decide. I have yet to see pics of anyone's Marauder sitting in their driveway with the headlight out. So it's a very isolated and rare occurence if anyone at all here runs their MARAUDER on the street like that Mike. And I was talking about MARAUDERS ONLY.

And you're again missing what the point was of MY post in that other thread, and that was (as I've already explained twice) that an otherwise stock S/Ced Marauder can run all the time ANYWHERE on the STREET at any time just as quick as it does going down the quartermile track running low 13's w/out icing the intake, removing the driver's side headlight, nor running on a 100 octane engine tune, while any N/A Marauder that runs low 13's CANNOT run that quick ANYTIME on the street w/out first doing all of those other things listed. So to say that both cars are equally as quick w/out explaining all of those ther things that need to be done to the N/A Marauder isn't completely true. And there have been two people on this board who have stated that. So puleeeeezzze don't expect me to explain that again to you. Or are you going to begin debating with me now about how fast each car will be with snow tires? :rolleyes:

[Bradley G]

I hate to sound stupid, but I was trying to picture ice in the air box,without regard for it's location or even if there would be an air filter used at all! any one monitoring IAT temps using any ice methods?Is thier an issue with dripping water on the track? Is thier a risk of breakage due to thermal expansion using dry/regular ice to cool intake. I was told getting a hot engine wet was risky.Is their any merit to this or is it a wivestale?
thanks for tour replies
Bradley G
Well, I was just flirting with fantasy, a little brainstorming, eh? Taking a serious second look, I'd expect the same results from ice inside the N/A air box as I would from iceing the intake manifold prior to a race. Perhaps better, because the chilling affect would at least last until the end of the pass. As for contamination of the MAF from water, well, I would hope no one would have to tell you to keep the air filter in place, and at that point, I would presume that the MAF is as well protected from drops of water from melting ice, as it is while driving in the rain.

Okay...skip the ice. What about chemical freezer packs? Some of them ice cube sized lunch box reusable thingys. Throw a hand full of them in the bottom of the air box, see what develops?

EDIT: None of this means squat if you don't monitor IAT temps...IMHO.

[MikesMerc]

I don't really care to debate what a "STREET car" is or isn't.

Then you are on the wrong thread my friend:D

Billy....calm down. As I said in my opening post, it was your statement that "got me thinking" about the topic of THIS thread. If you wish to get all worked up about what you were trying to explain on another thread, please go ahead and start your own new thread about it.

THIS thread is about what the definition of a street car is, and what running in street trim means.

Jeez, I think the colored text is on the way:D

[BillyGman]

I still think that dry ice used with a cool can to cool the incoming gas will be more effective like Merc406 suggested. However, I'm not sure where there would be room to re-route the gas lines on a Marauder for such a mod like that.

[BillyGman]

Then you are on the wrong thread my friend:DUhmm, NO...you used the wrong quote to start this thread. Thankyou.

Billy....calm down. CALM???? I AM CALM!!!!!!, please go ahead and start your own new thread about it.Please don't use my quotes by taking them out of context of what the entire post was about that you took them from. You must have been a newspaper reporter at one time, cuz this is what they like to do for sensationalism to sell newspapers.

THIS thread is about what the definition of a street car is, and what running in street trim means.Which is exactly why it can cause confusion when you use peoples' quotes out of context like you have mine.

Jeez, I think the colored text is on the way:DYep, here it is....and you asked for it too......

[MikesMerc]

IMHO, I think it's overvalued. I tried it a few times on my N/A Marauder, but didn't see any real benefit.


Keeping things as cool as possible has some value in grabbing for the lowest ET you can reach for

I think your second quote answers your first.

Cooling down at the track is always the smart thing to do when your going for your best times. In fact, I don't know anyone with a decent amount of track experience that would believe that a "hot lapped' car would run as quick as a "cooled down" car would run. If that's not happening, then something is wrong with the cool down methodology. If the cool down is done properly, along with proper staging, a typical burnout will not get you to the high end of the operating temperature range.

I've personally seen 2 to 3 tenths or more difference in hot lap vs cooled down cars many times at the track.

All that said, it does make for an interesting point about a street car. Cerrtainly cool down doesn't apply on the street.



Is thier a risk of breakage due to thermal expansion using dry/regular ice to cool intake. I was told getting a hot engine wet was risky.
Bradley G

No real risk. I've been icing intakes on EFI cars since 1986. It works and has little risk. The idea here is that you are not soaking your motor. A little run off isn't anything to worry about. Remember, you apply ice to the intake, not the head.

That said, NEVER EVER EVER EVER ice your blower....EVER! That is bad news and I've seen more than a few grenaded blowers from icing the blower case. The tolerances of the impellers/rotors is far to tight to have the casing be at one temp, while the impeller/rotors are at another.

I once saw I guy grenade is whole motor by icing his R-Trim Vortech. The case contracted, the impeller didn't. The impeller shattered at about 45,000 rpm and tossed fragments into the intake and down into the motor. It wasn't pretty.

Okay....back to the regular scheduled topic:)

[MikesMerc]

Which is exactly why it can cause confusion when you use peoples' quotes out of context like you have mine.

I don't think anyone else but you is confused Billy:)

EDIT- But, Billy, if you're that worked up about it, just say the word and I'll remove the offensive quote. Even though you continued to argue the "street-ability" of CAM 100 on this thread, I am more than willing to pretend that your quote has no bearing on your personal definition of a street car:)

I'd rather remove the quote than have you ruin the thread by getting upset.

[BillyGman]

Mike, I'm not angry. Just kinda surprised. I just wanted to dispell a myth that you were helping others to perpetuate about the claim of an N/A Marauder being as quick ON THE STREET as S/Ced Marauders are. That's a myth and that's all there is to it. No matter how anyone wants to slice and dice it as you have in that other thread, and you tried to do here by mixing the two topics of both threads together with my quote. Just leave the quote in there because I've already explained it backwards and forwards. If you don't catch my drift by now then you never will.

[SergntMac]

I think your second quote answers your first.Ummm...Maybe. Two different perspectives in play here, and hot lapping wasn't either of them.

Back in '02, I threw a bag of ice on my intake between runs. Hot lapping wasn't a problem, I had a half hour wait between runs. Came away with 14.21 iced, 14.32 not iced, which is insignificant IMHO and could be attributted to many other conditions too. My focus wasn't lowest time, rather consistency. I've never seen iceing the intake in this manner produce much better results.

But, all I was doing was throwing a bag of ice on top of the intake, with the goal of chilling the intake air by chilling it's path. Ditto with the ice cubes in the air box, just looking to chill the air in the air path. I wouldn't speculate on how well this works either, it's just a thought, maybe someone would likt to try it? I don't have an airbox anymore.

Once I read Barry's method as posted ^ there, I realized he is cooling the entire engine between runs, and I agree that this will have more dramatic affect on performance.

Someone iced a blower? What was he thinking?

My IATs climb 10-15 degrees from a typical burnout. Likewise, from an on-ramp romp. If you monitor them live via the OBDII port, you see how quickly they change.

[Bradley G]

Hey MMers',

Anybody tried or is it possible to remove the serpentine belt for a 1/4 mi pass?
Bradley G

[SergntMac]

Hey MMers', Anybody tried or is it possible to remove the serpentine belt for a 1/4 mi pass? Bradley G
That would be the ultimate in hot lapping.

[TripleTransAm]

Where is the IAT located on our engines?

[Bradley G]

I thought consecutive or quick Back to back runs(no cool down time) was refered to hot lapping.I am not shure If the MM will run at all without alternator?

just curious if the aluminum block could even take this abuse!I know the "arm chair QB" is not always a welcomed guest.I am just inquiring cause others here seem to take thier ET's very serious.
Bradley G

[BillyGman]

Hey MMers',

Anybody tried or is it possible to remove the serpentine belt for a 1/4 mi pass?
Bradley G
That's what a number of the Impala SS boys do for the track, and they claim a two tenths of a second reduction in their quartermile ET's from it.

[martyo]

Hey MMers',

Anybody tried or is it possible to remove the serpentine belt for a 1/4 mi pass?
Bradley G

No belt, no blower.

[SergntMac]

Ummm...Somewhere ^ there, I used the word "intake." Do I need to explain that I meant the upper intake manifold, like, the top of the MM engine? Or, are all y'all thinking I meant the air induction path...The stuff that leads from the OEM-N/A air box to the throttle body?

Where y'all throw your ice can be another difference in opinion...Points of view, perspectives doncha know.

Can we start over?

[jgc61sr2002]

Hey MMers',

Anybody tried or is it possible to remove the serpentine belt for a 1/4 mi pass?
Bradley G


No belt no waterpump unless it's electric.

[martyo]

No belt no waterpump unless it's electric.

That's less of a concern for some when youa re looking for th e"best" time.

[jgc61sr2002]

That's less of a concern for some when youa re looking for th e"best" time.


Marty - Do you think it is possible to run the 1/4 mile with no waterpump?

[SergntMac]

No belt, no blower.
No water pump either...Critical on N/A cars doncha know...

Actually, I wrote this post several hours ago, but I got caught up in e-mails and IMs, and forgot about this thread and this issue/question. I'm adding my reply now, but it feels a bit stupid now too, just because it's not new anymore. I know a lot of y'all hang back to see what gets posted knee jerk, but I don't do that.

I am not shure If the MM will run at all without alternator? just curious if the aluminum block could even take this abuse!I know the "arm chair QB" is not always a welcomed guest.I am just inquiring cause others here seem to take thier ET's very serious.
Bradley G
It's not a matter of "armchair" anything, Bradley, but let's think about your suggestion out loud?

The N/A serpentine belt drives the altenator, air conditioning, power steering and water pump. You don't need AC and PS for a quick 1/4 mile pass. You may not need the altenator either, a very good battery could get it done. But, you need a water pump, unless you convert to electric.

BTW, on a zero degree day, my MM produces heat in the cabin in 7 minutes after being parked in zero degrees for at least 8 hours. I mention this only as an example of how fast heat builds in our 4.6L DOHC engines.

Pushing the car to the tree cold, just to fire up without a belt in place, would probably get you through a decent burnout and one pass. If you can push, fire up, warm the tires with a burn out, stage the car and drive through the traps, all in under 5 minutes, it could be cool. Still, you better have a tow waiting in the traps, or, you won't make it back to your pit. The 4.6L DOHC warms up that fast.

Bradley, your question triggers more spontaneous thinking. Rather than remove the belt completely, why not install a smaller belt to drive just the necessary functons specific to a lower ET? Just expanding on your suggestion with a knee jerk reaction, nothing more...

[Bradley G]

Thanks Billy,

and all for your responses!I understand without a belt thier won't be any accessories.I wasn't sure the electric output would be suffecient to run the car off the battery (no alt)It sounds good(to have critical accessories working)the mini belt you mention Mac,My uncle (old school racer) sparked my curiosity,about tricks to Go Faster.If the R+R of the belt is very easy,no more than removeing the headlamp maybe it is worth while.I know sometimes .2 can be a long time in a 1320
Bradley G

That's what a number of the Impala SS boys do for the track, and they claim a two tenths of a second reduction in their quartermile ET's from it.

[FordNut]

Thanks Billy,

and all for your responses!I understand without a belt thier won't be any accessories.I wasn't sure the electric output would be suffecient to run the car off the battery (no alt)It sounds good(to have critical accessories working)the mini belt you mention Mac,My uncle (old school racer) sparked my curiosity,about tricks to Go Faster.If the R+R of the belt is very easy,no more than removeing the headlamp maybe it is worth while.I know sometimes .2 can be a long time in a 1320
Bradley G
Since several of us are using electric water pumps this sounds like a good idea to test on a N/A car. I believe the battery will last plenty long enough for a 1/4 mile pass, and the power steering shouldn't be needed. The only problem I see is making the sharp turn at the turnoffs for the return lane and sometimes the turning necessary in staging lanes.

However, I believe most of the gains could be accomplished without removing the belt. Is it not possible to program the PCM (or chip) to shut off the alternator at WOT? And since the car is going in a straight line, the power steering pump is not using any power. And of course the air conditioning is off so there is no load from the compressor.

BTW, removing the belt is easier than removing the headlamp.

[BillyGman]

At the track there are a number of cars that run without the alternator, waterpump, or power streering pump because of the belt being removed. You just have to keep the engine off while you're in the staging lanes. When you go to the track, you often see one or two guys in the staging lanes near you, who shut the car down, and leave the engine off, until every time they have to creep up 15 or 20 feet or so closer to the water box. And as soon as they do, they shut it down again. If you start with the engine cold, and do that, then the engine should be okay. However, you'll need a good battery (as it's already been said ) since you'll have to start the engine frequently while you're in the staging lanes.

[CRUZTAKER]

Is it not possible to program the PCM (or chip) to shut off the alternator at WOT?.Wait a minute here!!!!!....Fordnut, you of all people should know...and agree to beat me with a wet towel if I'm wrong....the ALTERNATOR on our cars DOES shut off at WOT!!!



BTW, removing the belt is easier than removing the headlamp.WHAT???!!!

I'll bet the farm I can pull the left headlight off off 3 marauders before you can remove the belt...and drink a beer...I drink fast, however that's not the point...

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH OUR BELOVED FORDNUT!:P

[TripleTransAm]

I'll bet the farm I can pull the left headlight off off 3 marauders before you can remove the belt...and drink a beer...I drink fast, however that's not the point...

I never tried it on a Marauder specifically, but on many engines all it takes is the proper socket and a long bar and the belt falls off with one tug on the tensioner.

[FordNut]

Wait a minute here!!!!!....Fordnut, you of all people should know...and agree to beat me with a wet towel if I'm wrong....the ALTERNATOR on our cars DOES shut off at WOT!!!
I'm not sure about that. I would expect the voltage to drop from 14V to 12V or so with the alternator shutoff, but I don't see that. I have read that some chip programmers (or maybe the factory program) turns off the alternator at WOT, while others do not.


I'll bet the farm I can pull the left headlight off off 3 marauders before you can remove the belt...and drink a beer...I drink fast, however that's not the point...
I'd take that bet. As many times as I've had the belt off working on the 8-rib setup I can tell you, a 3/8" drive ratchet and extension is all it takes. Stick it on the tensioner, turn cw to relieve tension, pull off belt. Done. Putting it back on takes a little longer. Headlight removal requires loosening a few screws and disconnecting the electrical connector, but it won't slip out unless the corner lamp has been loosened/shimmed/broken. Mine has not. (yet).


WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH OUR BELOVED FORDNUT!:P
It's still me, Barry. Just playing the devil's advocate.

[Bluerauder]

I'll bet the farm I can pull the left headlight off off 3 marauders before you can remove the belt...and drink a beer...I drink fast, however that's not the point...
It's a good thing that Mike and I parked in the grassy area ... otherwise it would have been 5 !!!! :rofl:

[SergntMac]

Where is the IAT located on our engines?As I am sure you know, /Steve, IAT sensors can be mounted in a few places, depending on manfacturer and design. On our MM, the IAT is internal to the MAF.

[SergntMac]

I have read that some chip programmers (or maybe the factory program) turns off the alternator at WOT, while others do not.The factory setting for the 300As was to shut off the A/C and Altenator at WOT, but this can be adjusted by a tuner. I had Jerry leave mine on full time, and I don't get that annoying dash light flicker. I think it may be different for the 300Bs and '04s, there was also a change in the one-way clutch assembly on the altenator.

[SergntMac]

just curious if the aluminum block could even take this abuse.BTW, Bradley, the critical temp for the 4.6L DOHC is 121C/250F degrees. At this temp, the EEC will shut down 4 injectors in a rotating pattern and force a "limp mode" until temps cool. At 160C/330F degrees, all injectors are shut down.

[Bradley G]

Well!, It appears we got some challenges ahead of us, and possibly some welts ;) to boot!Thanks for your responses.Great insight,from you guys as always,The drop in voltage from not using the alternator was the first thing my uncle mentioned as being a possible obsticle.He also stated about the ease of removeing the belt.Be carful what you bet, cause it may come back an sting ya a little!:fishslap:

Since I can't justify a blower yet and I still want to race the Marauder this year,I would be willing to do a little prep work at the track to get ET's down a bit! tire pressure fronts @ 45-50 psi front 20psi rear.headlamp removed belt removed. Cool the top of the motor with Dry/reg ice.I would even get a race gas program for my tuner.and run the good stuff.I would like to see 13's befor I eventually get blown.I realize I am near the bottom now on the timeslip page and have a long way to go.But a guy can dream can't He?
Bradley G
Bone stock I raced a '03 with 4:10's and a chip and beat him 3X's.One pass he did cross the finishline first but he confessed to me that he redlighted on that run.
Bradley G

[Bradley G]

I forgot about the Failsafe cooling that our engines were designed with! thanks Mac.If these temps are achieved regularly do you feel this will harm our engines?One thing that I could see as a pitfall, is if the racing schedule required you to hotlap to continue competition,and good ET's required more time to get prepared ie;cool down,refresh ice in airbox,one would'nt get similar results.thanks

Bradley G


BTW, Bradley, the critical temp for the 4.6L DOHC is 121C/250F degrees. At this temp, the EEC will shut down 4 injectors in a rotating pattern and force a "limp mode" until temps cool. At 160C/330F degrees, all injectors are shut down.

[CRUZTAKER]

This will throw a wrench into EVERYONES definition of a street car....

Check out Marty's thread HERE (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15097)....OMG this car? is off the hook!!!

:banana: :beer:

[merc406]

This will throw a wrench into EVERYONES definition of a street car....

Check out Marty's thread HERE (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15097)....OMG this car? is off the hook!!!

:banana: :beer:




And here.....http://www.rodshop.com.au/project55.htm :beer:

[BillyGman]

And here.....http://www.rodshop.com.au/project55.htm :beer:

BAAHHH.......V-12 engines.....EWE!!!! :puke:

[SergntMac]

And here.....http://www.rodshop.com.au/project55.htm :beer:ACK!

Omg...

[TripleTransAm]

As I am sure you know, /Steve, IAT sensors can be mounted in a few places, depending on manfacturer and design. On our MM, the IAT is internal to the MAF.


No, I didn't remember, actually, hence why I asked (but now that you've mentioned it, I recall this being noted in a thread from at least a year ago. Should have remembered this, but life with my MM has pretty much become a plug-and-play type of lifestyle with the new house responsibilities and heavy workload and family responsibilities - should get better once my second kid is born and I won't have to spend 4 hours on the road every day).

The reason I asked was to figure out whether IAC readings would be useful in determining whether intake icing could be evaluated using the IAC. If the IAC is upstream from the iced intake, I'm not sure the effects of this procedure will be evident from IAC readings.

[SergntMac]

The reason I asked was to figure out whether IAC readings would be useful in determining whether intake icing could be evaluated using the IAC. If the IAC is upstream from the iced intake, I'm not sure the effects of this procedure will be evident from IAC readings.Ooops...I though you asked where the IAT was taken? Whatever...The Idle Air Control (IAC) sensor is mounted on the throttle body, next to the TP sensor and opposite of the throttle linkage.

[TheDealer]

Here's my street car before I bought it. http://home.mchsi.com/~9secmerc/forsale.htm

I removed the lexan window and windshield and replaced them with originals. Hooked up all the lights, installed turn signals, horn, and wipers. Replace the tires with Dot's. Removed the hood and replaced with stock. Now it's a street/track car. I can drive it to the track and stiil run tens on motor and 9's on spray. :beer:

[TheDealer]

:cool: :beer: :banana2:

[TripleTransAm]

Ooops...I though you asked where the IAT was taken? Whatever...The Idle Air Control (IAC) sensor is mounted on the throttle body, next to the TP sensor and opposite of the throttle linkage.


:alone: Damn... when you're having a rough day, you're having a rough day... that should have read "IAT" which was the topic of the conversation.

[merc406]

And here.....http://www.rodshop.com.au/project55.htm :beer:






Not just any " V-12 " Gman, I just hope it has power steerin and p/brakes, and a couple of bigazz chutes. :beer:
One of the first Monster Garage's? :burnout: :burnout:

[BillyGman]

Not just any " V-12 " Gman, I just hope it has power steerin and p/brakes, and a couple of bigazz chutes. :beer:
One of the first Monster Garage's? :burnout: :burnout:

well, I guess I'm just a V8 engine fanatic and loyalist. :dunno:

[prchrman]

Fastest street cars at Bristol...have to be legal on street (lights and stuff) and run a 30 mile highway cruise and return to track and drag with no changes...that is street car...willie

[O's Fan Rich]

I have not read any other replies. Therefore I have not been influenced in any way. ( Under the influence is another story. :beer: )
To me a street car is a car that can pull into any state inspection local and pass ( with flying colors) the requirements for operation on the highway. It needs to be able to cruise at will all night/day and pull into any gas station and fill up from the pump. If you need to add octane booster... so what? It must be legally registered and insured.
Otherwise... run what you brung!