O2 sensor and air intake

[valleyman]

A few weeks ago my "check engine" light came on I took it straight to the nearest L/M dealer. They said it was one (not both) of the O2 sensors and was probably just a bad sensor. They cleared the "check engine" light and couldn't get it to come back on. So, they sent me out the door and said if it came back on they'd change the sensor. All under warrantee on my 300A, no charge.

Today the "check engine" light comes back on, after about 900 more miles, and off to the dealer I go. They change one of the O2 sensors and the service writer mentioned that it might be due to my JTL intake breathing so much better than the stock setup. The JTL intake has been on there for months so I don't think that's got anything to do with it, BUT, I am an ignoramus. What do you guys think? Could they be related? I have a Diablo chip in the MM and have had for about 2 years and over 20k miles.

Oh, and with all the difficulty some folks are having with dealers my hat's off to Fresno Lincoln Mercury. I did not buy the car from them, have never bought a car from them and the only maintenance they've done for me is one oil change and they put on my underdrive pulleys. I told them it had a chip in it and the only thing the service writer said was, "Well, I'm 99.9% sure this will be covered by warantee." They didn't charge me a dime. Time for me to throw some money their way. This was worth more than donuts.

Just wanted to be fair and balance out some of the dealer customer service horror stories.

[CBT]

Sounds like a great group of folks there

[BruteForce]

I'm a little confused. They say that better air flow causes the O2 sensors to fail? Eh?

[Smokie]

I don't have JLT, what I do have is PHP and after install my A/F ratio went to 11:1, running too rich can affect the O2 sensors in my opinion.

[Petrograde]

I don't have JLT, what I do have is PHP and after install my A/F ratio went to 11:1, running too rich can affect the O2 sensors in my opinion.

oh crap,.. I've been running the PHP box for a while now. I haven't been able to have my A/F corrected. :rolleyes:

hmmm,... how the hell am I gonna correct that?

[valleyman]

Thanks, folks. Just thought I'd check.

[Pat]

oh crap,.. I've been running the PHP box for a while now. I haven't been able to have my A/F corrected. :rolleyes:

hmmm,... how the hell am I gonna correct that?:help: Both you and Smokie (previous post) were/are running rich as a result of changing the air intake path. Dennis Reinhart in a post, somewhere on this site, when testing the PHP experienced the same thing and stated he corrected the ratio, I assumed it was through reprogramming. I too bought a JLT kit but have not installed it pending other mods and resolution of this problem. I'm going to e-mail Dennis and try to find out what he actually did to correct the problem. I found the post, #14370, and it was Smokies car used as a test bed for the PHP.
Smokie, what did dennis do and could it help Petrograde?

[bigmerc'03]

Your gonna havbe to have the MARAUDER dyno tuned i too have the JLT kit and made changes to my exhaust and was runnin way to rich just have it tuned and u will have no problem and pick up some more hp at the same time

[Svashtar]

Your gonna havbe to have the MARAUDER dyno tuned i too have the JLT kit and made changes to my exhaust and was runnin way to rich just have it tuned and u will have no problem and pick up some more hp at the same timeExactly what I have figured out I need to do after adding new exhaust system and the PHP kit. So just drive 1500 miles to the nearest dyno tune, then back. No problem.

Unfortunately not all of us live within driving distance of Dennis or Lidio. There has got to be another way to get these tunes remotely. Maybe not as good, but at least enough to compensate for the screwed up ATF ratio these mods cause.

[warren]

Svashtar & Valleyman
Yes you can email your Dynojet results to Dennis. I have.
Or you can have the Dynojet center email Dennis and copy you the
charts and spread sheets. They are used to doing this as they
do it with their home office for answers to dyno problems.
Dennis could then work up a new program for you as he is for me and
email it back to you to input via the obd II port using a SCT tuner.
If you do not have this set up call Dennis and he will work it out for you.
It's nice to have an expert help you long distance.

WarrenB
:D

[Smokie]

:help: Both you and Smokie (previous post) were/are running rich as a result of changing the air intake path. Dennis Reinhart in a post, somewhere on this site, when testing the PHP experienced the same thing and stated he corrected the ratio, I assumed it was through reprogramming. I too bought a JLT kit but have not installed it pending other mods and resolution of this problem. I'm going to e-mail Dennis and try to find out what he actually did to correct the problem. I found the post, #14370, and it was Smokies car used as a test bed for the PHP.
Smokie, what did dennis do and could it help Petrograde?Without knowing exactly what your A/F ratio is right now I would not recommend leaning out the ratio, Dennis after the PHP airbox finally settled on a 7% reduction in fuel after starting with 10% (13.8 to 1 at WOT) too lean for me, however my highest power/torque reading were there.
Than he backed off 3% and achieved a 13.2 to 1 ratio that I felt more comfortable with; lost both hp/tq about 3-4 but I felt safer. Called Dennis, he can help you with this. Javier.

[Pat]

Svashtar & Valleyman
Yes you can email your Dynojet results to Dennis. I have.
Or you can have the Dynojet center email Dennis and copy you the
charts and spread sheets. They are used to doing this as they
do it with their home office for answers to dyno problems.
Dennis could then work up a new program for you as he is for me and
email it back to you to input via the obd II port using a SCT tuner.
If you do not have this set up call Dennis and he will work it out for you.
It's nice to have an expert help you long distance.

WarrenB
:D
Yes, Dennis informed me via e-mail that this was a viable solution. Dyno your car locally, send him the A/F ratio numbers and he will work up a program for you. But you do need a patch cable from your PC to the tuner to transfer the file(s). I am fortunate to have a speed shop with a dyno so I'll install my performance parts with the Reinhart tune, then send the AF data for refinement of the basic tune. Ahh technology.

[Smokie]

Yes, Dennis informed me via e-mail that this was a viable solution. Dyno your car locally, send him the A/F ratio numbers and he will work up a program for you. But you do need a patch cable from your PC to the tuner to transfer the file(s). I am fortunate to have a speed shop with a dyno so I'll install my performance parts with the Reinhart tune, then send the AF data for refinement of the basic tune. Ahh technology.Yes, you need a special cable that has a port for a low volt power supply to plug into cable; to power the tuner during the process. Or maybe Dennis can send the file directly to your shop and they load it into your tuner. :)

[MitchB]

...They change one of the O2 sensors and the service writer mentioned that it might be due to my JTL intake breathing so much better than the stock setup. The JTL intake has been on there for months so I don't think that's got anything to do with it, BUT, I am an ignoramus. What do you guys think? Could they be related? I have a Diablo chip in the MM and have had for about 2 years and over 20k miles...

What happened here is your intake effectively changed the flow characheristics of your MAF. Ford flows the MAF on a flowbench connected to the inlet and outlet ducting as a packaged assembly. If you change anything in the inlet track including the manifold, the airflow through the MAF changes. So even for the same airflow, the MAF will read differently. The way you correct for this is to turn off the EECs adaptive controls and look at A/F on a wideband. You can look at the HEGO output as well. Then you rewrite the MAF transfer function to give you 14.7:1 A/F at as many points on the curve as you can at low speed. Then run at WOT to find the correction on the high end of the transfer function curve. In doing so, you are basically flowing the MAF on the car.

Mitch

[Pat]

Mitch;

Great to have your input. What is HEGO and how does one turn off the EEC's adaptive controls. Is this a seperate box than the EEC? I'm learning a bit at a time.

Pat

[GA-Marauder]

Your gonna havbe to have the MARAUDER dyno tuned i too have the JLT kit and made changes to my exhaust and was runnin way to rich just have it tuned and u will have no problem and pick up some more hp at the same time
Ditto ^^^. Had mine dyno'd today to check out this situation, which I already was noticing, especially in the low to mid-range rpms. First dyno run, HP and torque dropped off around 2000 rpm, and fuel/air ratios were down significantly. Pulled chip, retuned, and bingo, everything smoothed out. :P BTW, Aric from Injected Engineering remarked that I was making a lot of power for an engine with only a chip and the JLT kit. My peaks were 256 HP and 284 ft-lb torque. Before anyone asks, no, I don't have any pre-mod runs. Anyway, I'm a happy camper now, running "lean and mean".:cool4:

[Svashtar]

Yes, Dennis informed me via e-mail that this was a viable solution. Dyno your car locally, send him the A/F ratio numbers and he will work up a program for you. But you do need a patch cable from your PC to the tuner to transfer the file(s). I am fortunate to have a speed shop with a dyno so I'll install my performance parts with the Reinhart tune, then send the AF data for refinement of the basic tune. Ahh technology.
Thanks Pat, but you and Warren are missing my point. Please read my posting in this thread. There ARE no Dyno tunes locally. That's the problem. If I had a local dyno tune then I wouldn't need Dennis to tweak it, although I would probably ask his opinion and ask him to review the results. Please let me know if you know of a place that can Dyno tune my car closer to central California than Texas.

Like I said, not all of us live within driving distance of Dennis or Lidio. I have the 9100 with download cable, but how is Dennis going to know what to send me? Just, "I got the JLT CAI and am probably running rich now so please send me a program to fix that." (?) Don't think that's gonna work...

Thanks,

Norm

[Pat]

Norm,

You live in California, the land of Dyno's, just kidding. If I may suggest, look up Mustang clubs on the internet or other car clubs, even, gag, ricers. They can usually point you in the direction of a working Dyno. I didn't know we had one in my town until I asked a Mustang driver. They are just a service among other things a shop does so they may not be visible in the yellow books. Happy hunting.

Pat

[SergntMac]

Thanks Pat, but you and Warren are missing my point. Please read my posting in this thread. There ARE no Dyno tunes locally. That's the problem. If I had a local dyno tune then I wouldn't need Dennis to tweak it, although I would probably ask his opinion and ask him to review the results. Please let me know if you know of a place that can Dyno tune my car closer to central California than Texas.
Anything for a friend...

http://www.dynojet.com/maps/autodynos/ca.htm

Here's the DynoJet centers in CA., sorry I can't pick out what's close to Salinas. But, this is just half the problem, yes? Getting a dyno and sending the data to Dennis still seems a PITA, there must be someone closer who's tuning late model Mustang GTs, Mach I and Cobras...Like it's been said, local clubs may be your answer, check with the dyno owners to see who's setting up dyno days?

[Svashtar]

Anything for a friend...

http://www.dynojet.com/maps/autodynos/ca.htm

Here's the DynoJet centers in CA., sorry I can't pick out what's close to Salinas. But, this is just half the problem, yes? Getting a dyno and sending the data to Dennis still seems a PITA, there must be someone closer who's tuning late model Mustang GTs, Mach I and Cobras...Like it's been said, local clubs may be your answer, check with the dyno owners to see who's setting up dyno days?Thanks very much! I'm sure Dennis can make something of the results, or why not just have the DynoJet center itself tune the car based on what they find? Thanks again. I started a thread a few weeks ago asking for just this data but didn't get any responses at the time.

Regards,

Norm