2003 Cobra 4.6L engine

[Svashtar]

Saw this engine on Horsepower TV. They were upgrading a 2003 Cobra with a Hypertech Tuner (all they talk about now; no mention of SCT), and smaller pullies and some other stuff. The stock engine is 367 HP I think, so it must have a blower on it or something. The tuner added 43! HP, and the pullies another 20. Nice setup. Got the car up to 427 HP, of course they were running a dynotune each time and recalibrating.

I mention this because I'm hoping someone else saw the show and remembers the part I missed. They were talking about a TSB that Ford had on the drivers side head, and I'm pretty sure it had to do with the cooling of that side of the car. They mentioned something about a ticking coming from that side of the car, and that Ford now has a redesigned head for the Cobra, with the bottom half painted blue for easy recognition.

Anybody else have any info on this? They said they Hypertech Tuner would ask you if you had the upgraded head before allowing you to run the PCM flash upgrade.

I guess I'm wondering how much alike our engines these engines are and if the same TSB applies? I also am assuming that this tuner was specific to the Cobra. Only other place I have seen the Hypertech tuner advertised was for regualr cars and trucks that are setup for regular fuel, designed to optimize their programs with regular.

Thanks for any info.

Norm

[BillyGman]

That's a good question about the TSB Norm, and I'm wondering if someone else will chime in here w/some more info. But as far as the different brand of chip or tuner being mentioned, I think that you gotta wonder if the producers of certain shows are on the take from the aftermarket companies. If so, then obviously some of the info will be skewed, or atleast biased.

[Svashtar]

That's a good question about the TSB Norm, and I'm wondering if someone else will chime in here w/some more info. But as far as the different brand of chip or tuner being mentioned, I think that you gotta wonder if the producers of certain shows are on the take from the aftermarket companies. If so, then obviously some of the info will be skewed, or atleast biased.
I agree Billy. During the 1/2 hour show they must have had 4 ads for that tuner, and they made a big deal that it could remove top speed limiter, tweak the rev limter, had a gear change and tire size option, and could change your auto tranny shift points. In other words, everything that our SCT Tuners can do right now!

But I will be interested if someone has more info on that engine.

As I related point, I think I have been babying my engine maybe too much? I saw these guys take this engine all the way to the max on the dyno, and it was really screaming. Believe it or not, I have never had the throttle all the way to the firewall, as I have been afraid of frying something. (I know, I'm a wimp (-:) I've had the car up to 120, but that is accelerating slowly up to speed. I want to save the car, but I think by driving more aggressively I actually might get better mileage. Since I added the 4:10's I have never done better than 15 mpg., and prior to that never better than 17 mpg. Even with the 4:10's I should do at least 17 or 18 by my count.

Thanks again.

Norm

[BillyGman]

LOL......Norm, first let me state that I'll be the first to admit that the way that I drive my Marauder so hard is NOT advantagous to a prolonged or maximum engine life. But then again neither is adding many of the performance modifications to our cars that we do. I mean things like headers, freer flowing exhausts and such won't do anything detrimantal to engine life neccessarily. At least not in a direct way. But the fact that some of these things add more power to the drivetrain will always equate in one way or another to some increased stress to drivetrian parts provided that the extra power is used. And who spends their hard earned $$$ for power increasing modifications, and doesn't use that extra power that they've created?


So it all goes back to the thing that I always try to stress about each car owner having to decide exactly why he has this car, and what exactly he wants out of it, as well as it's intended purpose in general. But while getting into full throttle blasts multiple times on a daily basis is NOT the perscription for engine and drivetrain longevity, I DO agree with you that a good healthy full throttle blast once in awhile is a good thing for the engine. Furthermore, why spend the exta $$ to have a Marauder, when you don't plan on enjoying the exta power atleast once in awhile if you could've payed less $$ for a Crown Vic that looks almost as good? That's how I see it anyway.

[SergntMac]

Horsepower TV is one big infomercial, all the products mentioned pay for their advertising. Pay more, get mentioned more, it's business not corruption.

Hypertech is a known and established company with many years in the business. Think what you will about their products, but they have been on the street for a lot longer than SCT. SCT as a company retailing products to the public is just about one year old.

The 2003 Cobra engine differs from our MM engine by having a steel forged crank and rods. The pistons are the same hyperteutectic construction as the MM piston, but with a lower compression ratio. The heads, valves and so on are the same.

Back in mid 2002, when the Aviator and Mach I (which share our engine) were scheduled for release, they were held up at STAP for a correction related to the cylinder heads. Early MMs did not get this correction, but all Aviators and Mach Is did. Exactly what that correction was, I don't have at my finger tips, but there was a splash about it at the Blue Oval News site, and it was valve/head related.

I've never seen any TSB on the repairs, it's been an elusive rumor here as well. I have heard the "blue stripe" story too.

If you consider this program could be a re-run, a lot of the 411 is very stale.

[Bradley G]

Bottom line; Drive it, enjoy it, punish it. I have for 17000miand one year of pure enjoyment!I get into the pedal every day and I have no ticks, no stumbles.Had it on the Dyno friday she made within .6 horsepower each run and put 250 to the wheels with a generic tune (Mail order) Lidio (vendor here)and JLT intake kit (vendor here)I hope to be below 14.5 ET in the 1320 this spring. I heard mention that early build Marauders got the "bad heads"(left overs)and then Ford changed the part to curb the Two hot cylinders cooling issue.Can I get some back up?I did have a tick that lasted a few weeks when the car was only a couple months old @2K and has never come back!:sweat:
Bradley G

[chasrein01]

The show was definitely a rerun from May 2004 (Titled Cobra Power). The car was factory blown and also had the "low horsepower" problem that Ford did the recall on. I pretty much had the show on for "noise" as I also agree that it is mostly an infomercial, but aren't they all getting to be that!?!

[BillyGman]

To my knowledge, it hasn't really been established nor proven that the "ticking" noise alone is anything to neccessarily worry about since it's been an inherit trait of most of the 4.6L engines in the Mustang, Cobras, as well as Marauders, and some Mustang and Cobra owners have stated that they've had the "tick" in thier 4.6L engine for years, and w/out any issues concerning how the engine runs and performs. Infact, some mechanics claim that the "tick" is actually the fuel injectors, and isn't neccessarily abnormal.

[SergntMac]

The show was definitely a rerun from May 2004 (Titled Cobra Power). The car was factory blown and also had the "low horsepower" problem that Ford did the recall on. I pretty much had the show on for "noise" as I also agree that it is mostly an infomercial, but aren't they all getting to be that!?!
I figured it was a re-run, thanks. There's often much confusion about "Cobras," and what options were available in which year. Here's my spin on it all. Just stuff I've read here and there, from mags and Internet news groups.

'99-'01 Cobras are the "low power" Cobras covered by a TSB that was the end result of an owner initiated class action suit against Ford. These Cobras were not factory supercharged, but N/A engines with strong bottom ends, and low compression. The performance was disappointing to owners, and they sued Ford and won a court ordered engine upgrade. Most likely, this is where a "TSB" was issued on behalf of the owners who did not sign up for the class action suit.

Because of the litigation, '02 Cobra production did not occur. There are no '02 Cobras. In '03, the Cobra is an SVT product, and factory supercharged with an Eaton/roots style blower, and steel forged internals.

IMHO, considering the end result of 400+ RWHP, it's most likely that it was an '03 SVT Cobra that HorsepowerTV worked on, but the backstory discussion got a bit too "generalized," as it will happen from time to time.

[TripleTransAm]

Infact, some mechanics claim that the "tick" is actually the fuel injectors, and isn't neccessarily abnormal.


Some ticking (more of a deeper sound than what I'd call a 'tick') is normal from injectors. In my case of ticking, I kept my original injectors and everything but the head and all associated hardware... bye bye tick.

Judging by what the valve stems looked like on the affected cylinder(s) after only 20000+ km, I'd really not have wanted to keep this car operating like this for too long... not to mention the blue puffs at cold startups. Whether there are legions of DOHC owners out there who have lived with their ticking for 100000 miles or not, the fact remains most Cobra owners do not hang on to their cars long enough to see the long-term effects (whether or not there are any). At some 35000 km since my head change, I've yet to see one puff of blue smoke at startup (besides black, the lousy rich-running pig). The only thing I've got to worry about now is two cases of a slightly different ticking (tapping?) after long long long road trips, which I'm suspecting is the cam hold-downs (or whatever they are called).

Besides: we all know of the famous knock-sensor test involving rapping the side of the engine block with a screwdriver and watching the PCM for knock reports? Well, if tapping an engine block with a screwdriver causes the PCM to pull timing, what does a ticking valvetrain right next to the one-and-only knock sensor on the engine do for performance limitation? The more aggressive valvetrain of the LT4 (hopped-up LT1) in the F-cars (1997) and Vettes (1996) required a specific knock sensor module, that 'tuned out' the LT4-specific noises that were otherwise picked up by a regular LT1 knock module as false knock! Is this lack of valvetrain noise in my stock MM a reason for my personal best times so far on a track that is somehow known to be 'slow'?

[TripleTransAm]

Because of the litigation, '02 Cobra production did not occur. There are no '02 Cobras.

Actually, 2000 was the year Cobra production was abandoned because of the low-power problem. The following site confirms this, as well as remembering what happened back then as I recalled beating up on the new wildly-overrated Cobras with my severely-underrated WS6.
http://www.yellowmustangregistry.com/ProductionCobra.html

I have no idea why 2002 produced no Cobras, and the site was not clear on that either. Does anyone know why only 100 were produced that year for sale in Australia only, of all places???

[BillyGman]

Hmmmm, I dunno Steve....the ticking that my Marauder has been making since it had sevral thousand miles on it does NOT produce a vibration that rapping a wrench against the side of the engine would. That's for sure. but nothing to debate about. I appreciate you sharing your opinion based on your experience. I would think that if the ticking was something going on that is detrimantal in the 4.6L engine, then there wouldn't be Cobra owners claiming that their engines ticked for literally 100,000 miles w/out any problems.


My point is that all as we can do is speculate about this, and I don't believe that anyone has come up with any cold hard facts about this ticking thing that would indicate that a blanket opinion or statement claimimng that this tick is a problem would be applicable. There's still some mystery sorrounding this occurence. And i think that the verdict has NOT been reached beyond a shadow of doubt as of yet.

[Svashtar]

Wow! Thanks for all the great info on this issue and the show. Of course should have figured it was a rerun as they were working on an '03 vehicle. Makes sense also about the tuner mfr buying advertising.

Thanks again for the history on our engines and the Cobra.

Norm

[Warpath]

There were no 00 Cobras because Ford was spending their time fixing the 99s. The 99s had low power. Also, some of the IRS's vibrated. They sent engineers around the country diagnosing exactly what was the cause and fixed them. It wasn't an easy fix. I'm not sure why there were no 02 Cobras. I heard one story that Ford would have released the 02 and shortly thereafter introduced the 03. So, it wasn't worth it.

As for Horsepower TV, they're a bunch of idiots. I saw them install a fuel sump on the front of the fuel tank! Also, a long time ago, they did some basic bolt ons to a Mustang GT and got about twice the hp return as they should have. Someone posted on corral.net claiming that it was their car. They claimed they ran the before run in 3rd and the after run in 4th. 4th is 1:1 and will produce more rwhp than 3rd. Now, you can't believe everything you read on the net. But, the backwards sump is enough for me not to believe anything they do.

[blackf0rk]

I have a slight ticking coming from my drivers side area of the engine and not from the passengers side,. My heat also does not like to work at idel, I have to be moving. Taking the car in to the dealer tomorrow for this...

[sailsmen]

" Is this lack of valvetrain noise in my stock MM a reason for my personal best times so far on a track that is somehow known to be 'slow'?[/QUOTE]

Steve, what was the air like the nite you ran? I have seen weather can slow down as much as .6 -.7.

[TripleTransAm]

Steve, what was the air like the nite you ran? I have seen weather can slow down as much as .6 -.7.

VERY cool. And I attributed that as being a big part of the difference between how the car felt in July and how it felt in October. Definitely increased the bottom end response of the engine, and I think I mentioned something about the top end not feeling terribly different (although I think I saw a solid 2 MPH increase between the two sessions). The power just seemed to come on NOW rather than the car leaving the gate rather weak and then coming on strong shortly after... it really did feel like spark retard at low RPM (and many have noticed how a good launch on a Marauder comes about by getting progressively into the throttle rather than matting it right away).

But how much was due to cool air and how much due to the new quiet head? I can never say for sure, I'd need to compare back to back. I'm just reporting that other high performance engines (engines that are much less sensitive to knock than our engines appear to be) tend to pick up false knock when valvetrain changes are made... in my case, this was a very audible metallic tick emanating from right beside the 2003 knock sensor location. Did it result in worse spark retard than with a quiet head, in July? We'll never know.

Regardless, any valve(s) with that much side-to-side movement just DOESN'T seem right. If my technician was recommending against getting a generic machining job on replacement valve guides should Ford have refused to produce me a new head, why would I consider it acceptable to run that much slop on the factory-installed guides? At this rate, you might as well get new guides, press them in yourself, and go at them with a $10 hardware-store drill and a couple of used bits, you'd get the same kind of slop I had in my valve guides when the heads were on a table. That's not the image I get when I think of a high performance high-winding engine with high-tech tolerances. I paid Ford for a high performance engine, not a ticking smoke-belcher, and Ford eventually made good on our transaction (albeit with a little prodding from my dealer, God bless 'em all).

Based on Ford's initial behaviour with my head issue and what I've read here in the past couple of years, I'm starting to believe the only reason the Grand Marquis has such a low rate of quality complaints is because the client base is so much more tolerant of these glitches (or possibly half-deaf). I'm not sure Ford was ready to deal with a totally different more demanding type of client which is the Marauder owner. We know what we paid for and we know what we expect. It's a two-sided coin... if you want to be in the market of producing high performance machinery, you have to be conscious of the high performance client that will surely come to your door. In our case, looks like Ford is more interested in mundane transportation, and so catering to a discriminating car buyer as ourselves is too much of a hassle. Probably for the best...

With the Mustang, it's not so much of an issue, since all that matters is getting rubber in 2nd and 3rd, regardless of rattling valves or overheating heads. As long as the power is there, many will forgive. However, take that power away and look how quickly things get ugly! (ref: the low power issue of 1999).

[valkyrie]

I have a slight ticking coming from my drivers side area of the engine and not from the passengers side,. My heat also does not like to work at idel, I have to be moving. Taking the car in to the dealer tomorrow for this...

I have the same issue. Tick from the passengers side valve and I can't cool at idle either. I am thinking of flushing my cooling system as I can't figure it out and can't afford to let it continue.

MY motor is starting to sound like a diesel.

[sailsmen]

Fortunately I do not have the tick, but if my car is laid up for more than 3 days I have noticed in the past the exhaust smoke on start up does have some blue in it from burning oil.

I speculate the thin oil we have leaks past the valve seals, but I am not sure.

I have had the oil tested several times, the car on a Dyno w/ 15K+ miles in between Dynos with the same peak HP and TQ and the car runs great, so I think there are no issues with my engine. :D

I agree with you there is no excuse for Ford to have a crappy head in the car. Where you ever able to diagnois the cause, poor quality materials or assembly or design?

[AzMarauder]

Saw this engine on Horsepower TV. They were upgrading a 2003 Cobra with a Hypertech Tuner (all they talk about now; no mention of SCT), and smaller pullies and some other stuff. The stock engine is 367 HP I think, so it must have a blower on it or something. The tuner added 43! HP, and the pullies another 20. Nice setup. Got the car up to 427 HP, of course they were running a dynotune each time and recalibrating.

I mention this because I'm hoping someone else saw the show and remembers the part I missed. They were talking about a TSB that Ford had on the drivers side head, and I'm pretty sure it had to do with the cooling of that side of the car. They mentioned something about a ticking coming from that side of the car, and that Ford now has a redesigned head for the Cobra, with the bottom half painted blue for easy recognition.

Anybody else have any info on this? They said they Hypertech Tuner would ask you if you had the upgraded head before allowing you to run the PCM flash upgrade.

I guess I'm wondering how much alike our engines these engines are and if the same TSB applies? I also am assuming that this tuner was specific to the Cobra. Only other place I have seen the Hypertech tuner advertised was for regualr cars and trucks that are setup for regular fuel, designed to optimize their programs with regular.

Thanks for any info.

Norm
The 2003/2004 Cobra motors are cast iron blocked opposed to the aluminum Marauder and they are all Supercharged. The internals are all forged with darn near the best rods, crank, and pistons available. The engines routinely hold up to 18-21 lbs of boost. Except for the weight penalty, I would think a Cobra short block would be the ticket for a MM.

Folks are turning 600-700 RWHP with them and high 11's are routine for a mildly modified, drag radialed Cobra. Mine, with $1500 invested, would turn 12.5s @114mph at 3100' elevation with a granny start/shifts and a 60' time of no faster than 2.00 and on the stock F1s.

The TSB they are probably refering to had to do with faulty heads which don't cool well back by the pistons 7/8. The Cobras had the same dreaded TICK problem that I have seen mentioned here in Marauderville.

[AzMarauder]

The show was definitely a rerun from May 2004 (Titled Cobra Power). The car was factory blown and also had the "low horsepower" problem that Ford did the recall on. I pretty much had the show on for "noise" as I also agree that it is mostly an infomercial, but aren't they all getting to be that!?!
I may be wrong but I never heard of a "low horsepower" recall for the 03/04 Cobras. That recall applied to the 99 Cobras. One of the major reasons that Ford didn't have a 2000 Cobra (the Cobra R not withstanding) was they were very busy fixing the 99 problems.

The 03 Cobras were rated at 390hp 390tq stock. Most pundits agree that the cars were hotter than that from the factory. Stock dynos showing 360-370 RWP very common.

Mine dyno'd 448rwhp and 453rwtq with mods of 2.93 pulley, SuperChip, 10" cone filter, Bassani X-Pipe, Magnaflow Catback, and a set of plugs.

[AzMarauder]

I figured it was a re-run, thanks. There's often much confusion about "Cobras," and what options were available in which year. Here's my spin on it all. Just stuff I've read here and there, from mags and Internet news groups.

'99-'01 Cobras are the "low power" Cobras covered by a TSB that was the end result of an owner initiated class action suit against Ford. These Cobras were not factory supercharged, but N/A engines with strong bottom ends, and low compression. The performance was disappointing to owners, and they sued Ford and won a court ordered engine upgrade. Most likely, this is where a "TSB" was issued on behalf of the owners who did not sign up for the class action suit.

Because of the litigation, '02 Cobra production did not occur. There are no '02 Cobras. In '03, the Cobra is an SVT product, and factory supercharged with an Eaton/roots style blower, and steel forged internals.

IMHO, considering the end result of 400+ RWHP, it's most likely that it was an '03 SVT Cobra that HorsepowerTV worked on, but the backstory discussion got a bit too "generalized," as it will happen from time to time.
MAC,

Sort of right....

The 99 Cobras were the lowpower Cobras. Ford decided to backtrack and fix them (changed exhausts and a few other items). As a result there was no 2000 Cobra. (Cobra R not withstanding).

There was never a horsepower issue with the 01 Cobras. The 2002 Cobra was not done because they were busy bringing the 2003 Cobra to market. The 2003 Cobra started showing up in the late spring of 2002 btw. So it was in effect a 2002 1/2 car.

[AzMarauder]

To my knowledge, it hasn't really been established nor proven that the "ticking" noise alone is anything to neccessarily worry about since it's been an inherit trait of most of the 4.6L engines in the Mustang, Cobras, as well as Marauders, and some Mustang and Cobra owners have stated that they've had the "tick" in thier 4.6L engine for years, and w/out any issues concerning how the engine runs and performs. Infact, some mechanics claim that the "tick" is actually the fuel injectors, and isn't neccessarily abnormal.
The cars that "TICK" are supposed to "TICK" and it won't be confused with injector noises.

I'm not sure Ford has ever really stated what causes the Tick.. but the have wandered all over the map trying to make them go away.

[AzMarauder]

Actually, 2000 was the year Cobra production was abandoned because of the low-power problem. The following site confirms this, as well as remembering what happened back then as I recalled beating up on the new wildly-overrated Cobras with my severely-underrated WS6.
http://www.yellowmustangregistry.com/ProductionCobra.html

I have no idea why 2002 produced no Cobras, and the site was not clear on that either. Does anyone know why only 100 were produced that year for sale in Australia only, of all places???
They didn't do a 2002 because they were working to bring the 2003 to market. The 03 actually showed up late spring 2002. So a 2002 1/2 sort of.