K&N air intake vs. JLT air intake

[Marauder2005]

I wanted to get an air intake but im not to educated on
the subject. Im not trying to step on anybodys toes here, but
what intake do you guys recomend. I noticed the K&N kit was 262.00
and the JLT was cheaper at 134.00 I believe.(correct me if im wrong)
Any input is appreciated
-Mike

[fastblackmerc]

I wanted to get an air intake but im not to educated on
the subject. Im not trying to step on anybodys toes here, but
what intake do you guys recomend. I noticed the K&N kit was 262.00
and the JLT was cheaper at 134.00 I believe.(correct me if im wrong)
Any input is appreciated
-Mike

They both do the same thing.... I'd go for the cheaper one.... I did and I like it, easy install, looks good, sounds good. Search on JLT and look for this post: JLT Intake vs. Stock *DUW*. JLT doesn't come with a heat shield, there is some debate as to the necessity of a heat shield. I got a polished stainless steel one off eBay.

[Bradley G]

hey Mike,

I just had a dyno test done By CJ @ dyno-pro(vendor here) on JLT's(vendor here) air induction Kit.If you do search for it you should find it. Bottom line It is worth it! The car has more power approx 10 hp more, it's louder (only at higher rpm's)and a 60 mph roll to WOT is noticably stronger!I have not been able to dead punch cause I put snows on a couple weeks ago.$ per hp is the best value offered.And to Jay Tucker I will Mail you the results for your website.Thanks for all your comments!
Bradley G

[Marauder2005]

Thank you guys, Bradley you got me covinced thanks again, gotta

place order now :D

[GA-Marauder]

I wanted to get an air intake but im not to educated on
the subject. Im not trying to step on anybodys toes here, but
what intake do you guys recomend. I noticed the K&N kit was 262.00
and the JLT was cheaper at 134.00 I believe.(correct me if im wrong)
Any input is appreciated
-Mike
I have the JLT. I love it. Go for it!:D

[Bradley G]

Thanks Mike,
Glad I was concidered in your decision!Pm me if I can be of any help!
Bradley G



Thank you guys, Bradley you got me covinced thanks again, gotta

place order now :D

[LordVader]

:help: Guys...great answer to the same question I had. The responses brought another question to mind? If you change the air intake is it immediately necessary to change any programming or tuning? Appreciate the feedback.

[Rider90]

not immediately, but your car will run a little on the rich side until you get it tuned properly. It won't do any harm except to your performance.

[Marauder2005]

That was a good question....So basicly get it tuned

or you will lose power?

[Rider90]

you gain approx 10 RWHP PEAK HP by putting it on in the first place, but can gain more after the proper tuning of the A/F Ratio.

[Mike Poore]

not immediately, but your car will run a little on the rich side until you get it tuned properly. It won't do any harm except to your performance.
Wait, that's counter intuitive. If the new air-charger is supplying MORE air, wouldn't that result in a lean condition, not the other way 'round? (more air, less fuel = lean condition) But, then again, what do I know, I'm an old carburetor guy.:dunno:

[Rider90]

What do I know? I'm just a dispatcher :dunno:

[mpearce]

Ok...we've heard from the JLT side of the coin...now how about the K&N side?

Does anyone have any live "street time" / "SOTP" info on the K&N? (I have read Lidios posts concerning dyno numbers and am familiar with them) Just want to see how the K&N people like their cold air kits.

I'm also curious to hear the K&N people's comments on how the kit performs on the street, instead of the dyno. Thanks.

-Mat

[Rider90]

I'll let you know, it should be here in the next couple of days after two weeks on backorder...

[Mike Poore]

Ok...we've heard from the JLT side of the coin...now how about the K&N side?

Does anyone have any live "street time" / "SOTP" info on the K&N? (I have read Lidios posts concerning dyno numbers and am familiar with them) Just want to see how the K&N people like their cold air kits.

I'm also curious to hear the K&N people's comments on how the kit performs on the street, instead of the dyno. Thanks.

-Mat
Lido posted some very nice results from one of the K&N units, but added the proviso that it was on an SC'd car, and didn't know if the data would hold up on a naturally aspirated engine, as I recall

[SouLRioT]

http://mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14133

This thread is when Lidio added the K&N to Bigslim's car which is NA.

[Pat]

Wait, that's counter intuitive. If the new air-charger is supplying MORE air, wouldn't that result in a lean condition, not the other way 'round? (more air, less fuel = lean condition) But, then again, what do I know, I'm an old carburetor guy.:dunno:Computer controlled, fuel injected cars use a Mass air Sensor and that device along with other sensors, such as throttle position, tell the computer that more air is coming in and to enrichen the mixture. Hence the rich condition. My JLT kit which I installed a few days ago helped performance right out of the box, but I've scheduled a dyno session to tune the AF ratios back to +- 14:1 and this should net a nice increase in performance without driving my fuel economy into bankruptcy.

[Mike Poore]

Computer controlled, fuel injected cars use a Mass air Sensor and that device along with other sensors, such as throttle position, tell the computer that more air is coming in and to enrichen the mixture. Hence the rich condition. My JLT kit which I installed a few days ago helped performance right out of the box, but I've scheduled a dyno session to tune the AF ratios back to +- 14:1 and this should net a nice increase in performance without driving my fuel economy into bankruptcy.
Damn those computers anyway.

So, let me get this straight: The MAF sees more air, so it calls for more gas and depending upon throttle position and a host of other parameters, delivers it, or not. If it sends too much fuel, you've wasted some gas, if, on the other hand, it sends too little, you've wasted an engine.

This makes me think that messing with tuning and chips is one hell of a crap shoot. I'll also observe that anyone who adds a chip from Joe's chip store, without the aid of sophisticated electronics and dynamometer time, is a damned fool, nerver mind running the risk of turning a high dollar engine into scrap.

No wonder the manufacturers/dealers are so anal about mods. :twocents:

:hide:

[jstevens]

Mods are only bad when fools get involved.

Thats why I only use respected and highly skilled people=lidio.

[FordNut]

Computer controlled, fuel injected cars use a Mass air Sensor and that device along with other sensors, such as throttle position, tell the computer that more air is coming in and to enrichen the mixture. Hence the rich condition. My JLT kit which I installed a few days ago helped performance right out of the box, but I've scheduled a dyno session to tune the AF ratios back to +- 14:1 and this should net a nice increase in performance without driving my fuel economy into bankruptcy.
Go with 13:1, it's safer.

[SergntMac]

Damn those computers anyway....
Actually, Mike, it's all a bit overstated right now.

Yes, the MAF will report more air and the fuel tables will compensate with more fuel, but this "overly rich" condition we have been kicking around here the past few weeks is way out of proportion for what's really taking place.

At best, any change in induction will result in a mildly richer fuel mixture, which will cause no loss of performance, or, major hit to the fuel pocketbook. However, now that more air is available, a tuner can target that and milk more performance out of your tune. You don't "have" to get dyno tuned, but you're missing out on some new HP and TQ until you do.

BTW, don't expect much more that the reported 10 RWHP/RWTQ from a well tuned MM. BradleyG did a fairly straightforward "before and after" dyno test of the JLT, IMHO, his results are what anyone should expect.

No respect for Paul's HP kit, eh?

[Marauder2005]

Actually, Mike, it's all a bit overstated right now.

Yes, the MAF will report more air and the fuel tables will compensate with more fuel, but this "overly rich" condition we have been kicking around here the past few weeks is way out of proportion for what's really taking place.

At best, any change in induction will result in a mildly richer fuel mixture, which will cause no loss of performance, or, major hit to the fuel pocketbook. However, now that more air is available, a tuner can target that and milk more performance out of your tune. You don't "have" to get dyno tuned, but you're missing out on some new HP and TQ until you do.

BTW, don't expect much more that the reported 10 RWHP/RWTQ from a well tuned MM. BradleyG did a fairly straightforward "before and after" dyno test of the JLT, IMHO, his results are what anyone should expect.

No respect for Paul's HP kit, eh?
Well put, thank you....

[bigslim]

Ok...we've heard from the JLT side of the coin...now how about the K&N side?

Does anyone have any live "street time" / "SOTP" info on the K&N? (I have read Lidios posts concerning dyno numbers and am familiar with them) Just want to see how the K&N people like their cold air kits.

I'm also curious to hear the K&N people's comments on how the kit performs on the street, instead of the dyno. Thanks.

-Mat
I have had some "street time" with my K&N and I can say I love it. First let once again state that I only got about 4-6hp with the K&N. I gained an overall 10hp with the K&N and a chip retune. I will say that the seat of the pants feels really good. When Lidio took my car out that day he was impressed with how the car responed. He said if the car came that way from the dealer he probably never would have supercharged his car. I love the sound it makes at "WOT". This alone is worth the price of the K&N. One reason I got this mod is because when I decide to get my Trilogy it will add about 20hp to that supercharger setup. As stated before there is a thread with all my before and after dyno results. Good luck with which ever you chose.

[Smokie]

I know this post does not include PHP which I do have and have documented in vivid detail, but I will offer a comment just on the A/F ratio and gas mileage aspect of the discussion.

Installing the product without any dyno tuning will provide positive results on the torque at low end; as far as the street scene, that would be an opinion right ? How about 60' times: mine went from an average of 2.28 to an average of 2.18.

The gas mileage does suffer a bit about 1-2 mpg, but the performance is there from the get go, the dyno tune is icing on the cake.

[Bradley G]

Great comments,Before I changed the factory airbox I was just a smidge over 13 A/F ratio 13.2or 3?.After JLT's Air kit A/F was 13.8.CJ @ Dyno-Pro (vendor here)claimed that Dyno-tunning would get me closer to the "Safe" zone like Fordnut said.

CJ also stated , my peak power numbers are not at, or near redline.If you look my peak power comes near @4000 rpm then dips a few times before reaching redline.CJ also stated A Dynotune would /should bring the curve flatter and not dip.They would stay the same as peak or a little more until redline.I would not expect huge gains over my mail order tune from Lidio, by dyno tuning.But thier is probably another 10-15 horsepower/torque on the table.I would like to dynotune for the A/F ratio increase ,so I don't have to worry when I hammer the right pedal and hold it there till triple digits:burnout:

I do agree tuning a Marauder is not a shade tree mechanics job!
The dyno I refer to in this post, is featured in a thread started By Rider 90 from last friday search JLT and you should find it!
Bradley G

[mpearce]

I have had some "street time" with my K&N and I can say I love it. First let once again state that I only got about 4-6hp with the K&N. I gained an overall 10hp with the K&N and a chip retune. I will say that the seat of the pants feels really good. When Lidio took my car out that day he was impressed with how the car responed. He said if the car came that way from the dealer he probably never would have supercharged his car. I love the sound it makes at "WOT". This alone is worth the price of the K&N. One reason I got this mod is because when I decide to get my Trilogy it will add about 20hp to that supercharger setup. As stated before there is a thread with all my before and after dyno results. Good luck with which ever you chose.
Slim, thank you for the "street time" reply. 411 like this is what I was after. As I stated in my previous post, I was very familiar with the tests that Lidio had done with this product on the dyno. Street performance, and driver satisfaction stories is what I'm after. Thanks.

-Mat

[LordVader]

:banana2: To all...thanks for the great responses. This let's me know that I can do something with air induction and gain a few horses immediately and get some tuning done without getting adding or changing the chip to compensate..at least not right away.

[Tucker]

Thanks for all the support guys. :beer:
If anyone need help or your ready to order, feel free to give me a shout.
Jay Tucker 757 335 1940
I think with the 2 resent dyno results and the price comparision the choice is easier, but I'm truley gald there is others for you to choose. Compatition is good for us all. :D

[martyo]

Compatition is good for us all. :D

And "competition" is even better! ;) :D

[Mard]

I just installed the PHP (Pauls High Performance) airbox several days ago I really like it. Seat of the pants difference is impressive, but I haven't had any tune work. My gas mileage hasn't appeared to suffer at all, but I'll see tonight when I fill-up. I was averaging around 19 mpg before. I'm not sure why the gas mileage would change much....unless you really enjoy the new intake roar.

I paid $232.00 to my door. Kit included filter, pre-filter and airbox.

[Smokie]

I just installed the PHP (Pauls High Performance) airbox several days ago I really like it. Seat of the pants difference is impressive, but I haven't had any tune work. My gas mileage hasn't appeared to suffer at all, but I'll see tonight when I fill-up. I was averaging around 19 mpg before. I'm not sure why the gas mileage would change much....unless you really enjoy the new intake roar.

I paid $232.00 to my door. Kit included filter, pre-filter and airbox.I have one of those, here are my results, notice what happens at about 3000 rpms', we're not talking small change here, are we ? :D http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49 75

[Mard]

I have one of those, here are my results, notice what happens at about 3000 rpms', we're not talking small change here, are we ? :D http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49 75
Wow!....I'm looking at the 3500 rpm spike. That appears to be an extra 25 plus ponies:up: .

Does that really just represents the addition of the airbox and tune? What other mods were on the car before the dyno?

My car is stock, with the exception of the airbox, so I was just trying to get a feel for what my numbers could be with a tune.

[Smokie]

Wow!....I'm looking at the 3500 rpm spike. That appears to be an extra 25 plus ponies:up: .

Does that really just represents the addition of the airbox and tune? What other mods were on the car before the dyno?

My car is stock, with the exception of the airbox, so I was just trying to get a feel for what my numbers could be with a tune.You are looking at a before and after of the airbox, the car has a complete exhaust system (shorty headers, hi-flow cats.x-pipe, 18" magnaflows) the rest is stock.

[Tucker]

And "competition" is even better! ;) :DSorry.:depress:
I type to fast sometimes.:beer:

[AzMarauder]

you gain approx 10 RWHP PEAK HP by putting it on in the first place, but can gain more after the proper tuning of the A/F Ratio.
Wouldn't going over to a less restrictive air intake cause the car to run leaner? (more air flow)

Or does the car over compensate?

[n9ouw]

MM 180 K work car ,K&N cai , flys good down the super slab ! ! !

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Now that we brought this thread up, anyone recently have to adjust their aftermarket tune to compensate for the JLT upon first install? Or should I just drop it in and enjoy it?

[SC Cheesehead]

MM 180 K work car ,K&N cai , flys good down the super slab ! ! !

Uhhh, four year old thread, he's prolly made his choice already... ;)


Now that we brought this thread up, anyone recently have to adjust their aftermarket tune to compensate for the JLT upon first install? Or should I just drop it in and enjoy it?

Plug 'n play!

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Thank you sir! Can't wait for late march, no snow, a bit warmer, cut the insurance back on and slapping the JLT on there.