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View Full Version : L/M Dealer Smashes-Up Marauder!!



South Hills
01-26-2005, 03:44 PM
Dear MM Owners:

I wanted to tap into the collective expertise of this group. Yesterday, I took my 2003 MM (11,000 miles) to the L/M Dealership where I bought it in August of 2002. All wrenching done to the MM to date (save the S/C adder from Trilogy and a few other goodies installed by Lidio) has occurred at this Dealer.

The work order yesterday included a state- mandated annual inspection and emissions test and an oil/filter change. Drop off time is 8:00 bells. At approximately 10:30 AM, the service manager calls; "I've got some bad news. While performing the state required road test, our mechanic hit a patch of black ice and your car has been damaged.” Needless to say, I became slightly unhinged at this point.

I went down to look at the car (I have attached a few photos taken at the dealership) and the damage was significant; at least one hit to the front end and another to the rear quarter. I spent about an hour talking, fairly calmly under the circumstances, with the Service Manager and the Owner of the Dealership. I should note that I have had a good experience with this Dealer up to this juncture. The Dealer has done a good job of addressing any and all issues with the MM, including repairs of a few imperfections in the original paint, replacing all four wheels due to slight imperfections, working with me on other warranty claims unrelated to the S/C install, etc.

The Dealer has offered a rental car (Town Car) for the duration my MM is out of commission and agreed to have all repairs performed at their expense. The Dealer has also agreed to use the body shop of my choice to do the repairs, although they have their own in-house body shop services.

I drove the MM to my body shop of preference (everything mechanical appeared to be okay on the drive over) and spoke with the owner. He estimates the repairs will take three to four weeks and the repair cost will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $6,000 - $8,000 (he had not yet fully inspected the vehicle). I have a good degree of comfort with the quality of work the body shop will do as I have used them before and their work has been first rate.

I wanted to get the perspectives of the club on getting “diminished value” with this fact pattern. My current thinking (and I would much appreciate any other approaches or recommendations this group may have) is to get written estimates of the reduction in value to the MM because it has been in an accident (assuming the repair work is complete and flawless) from at least two other L/M dealerships. Then I will ask the responsible Dealership to pay the average of the two estimates. Assuming they agree, we are done. If not, I will connect with their Garage Keepers Liability insurance provider and pursue legal remedies.

Any guidance the group can offer would be very much appreciated. Has anyone experienced anything like this before? Any numbers on “diminished value” anyone has seen for the MM? I am in very unfamiliar territory here and unsure exactly how to proceed.

Thank you in advance for your feedback and advice.

Phil

Dr Caleb
01-26-2005, 03:52 PM
Dude! Holy Shazam!

I think it's great that your dealer stepped up and took responsibility for their mistake. Usually they just say that damage while in our care not our responsibility and make you use your car insurance pay . .

Constable
01-26-2005, 03:55 PM
:mad: :mad2: :mad:

You're a saint, because I would've shot the driver. And my dealership knows it.

I can't offer advice on the money parts. But, I figure a typical used '03 with your mileage has been selling for around 22-23K. With S/C I'd add another 3K for selling purposes. These cars don't have any collector value yet... won't for many years. I'd say you probably lost about 2K on the resale value. These points of view are solely from me, if I were to be looking at buying your car. I'd pay about 24K for it. I can assure you, though, that a dealership would bone you hard on a trade in. I'd imagine they might give you 18K for it.

Good Luck. Hope someone here can point you in the right direction with some real numbers.

snakeplissken
01-26-2005, 04:06 PM
It could have been worse you could have been in the car when it hit Black Ice and you could have rolled it and died. The only problem is when you go to sell it if it shows up on carfax with a serious accident its going to hurt resale, how much is debateable. If you take it to a dealer for trade in a good used car manager will spot the repaint no matter who paints it, once the factory finish is broken its broken. if your going to keep it for a long time then it doesn't matter as much.

Tallboy
01-26-2005, 04:24 PM
It could have been worse you could have been in the car when it hit Black Ice and you could have rolled it and died. The only problem is when you go to sell it if it shows up on carfax with a serious accident its going to hurt resale, how much is debateable. If you take it to a dealer for trade in a good used car manager will spot the repaint no matter who paints it, once the factory finish is broken its broken. if your going to keep it for a long time then it doesn't matter as much.The only way carfax finds out is if the insurance company reports the claim to the state. This is a practice for which the insurance companies are not compensated. Then, the department of motor vehicles must file the necessary paperwork. This is why carfax has the disclaimer they do. I have a mustang that has been totaled. Twice. Carfax report comes back spotless. Carfax is a joke.

jgc61sr2002
01-26-2005, 04:36 PM
Phil - Sorry about the damage to your Marauder. I would have to agree that your trade in value ( even with excellent repair) has been diminished. I would see if you could work out a deal for a 2004 Marauder. IMO the ball is in your court. Good luck.

Marauderman
01-26-2005, 04:45 PM
nWell, I am a bit ...no....alot perplexed here!!! I for one , also with a S/C MM , do not let anyone get in to drive it nor leave it without it being "in sight" of my eyes...got to much invested$$$........so I am really taken in that you would let some one "take it for a state mandated test drive" without you......and thats another thing.........what state do you live in guy?....cause I never heard of such a requirement-( doesn't mean of course it doesn't exist-just don't get it's purpose)---the car was "driven in" so why the mandated test drive?....NO way would that ever happen ---you should not have to test drive a car for "inspection purposes" as far as I am concerned......anyway-=-

( note to self--remind self when I learn of your state--not to move there an register a car)--sorry--

OK --
I too suffered an incident way back--Here are some tips for ya---

1.Normally deminished value is only available up to 12K miles or one year, which ever comes first in the eyes of most insurance folks eyes-- so you may have been lucky there--I hope you are..

2. You should only be dealing with the dealerships Insurance Co. as to recouping any deminished value--Inform them in writing you plan to submit a claim for such when you car is repaired.--say no more than that at this time.
Ignore any reply comments. ( your in charge now--they know it)

3.After car is repaired- get estimates on sale value from Carmax (2), and one from another dealer. Tell the Carmax folks during # 1 visit you have no problems with car and never damaged---they will see that it has been damaged due to repainting and thus lower the $$ some...then on # 2 visit tell them it has been damaged( see a different person) and the get a second estimate--it will be pleanty lower than the first.

Get a third from another Dealer as to a trade in possibility..., then look up you car on the net for its book value with current miles and so forth---add maybe what you feel the S/c may add to it--

4. You now have four ideas of you cars value at different situations in which to come to an amount you feel is approiate to ask as to it's deminished value due to the wreck---you need to establish it's value before wreck and afterwards at current mileage vs afterwards....thus the diff..

5..Chances are you wil not get what you want , but the paper work will be impressive enough they may feel you are capable of going to your Lawyer if not satisfied...

6..The insurance co usually has a limit they will pay for deminished value ---somewhat preset, but your paper actions can elevate that if they fear legal action is possible ----so .

7.They may try and call you and record your call to get you to do what they want and agree to what they say--Do NOT give in to this!---


I have some other questions--Did you call the police and have them fill out and accident report?.. Did the guy who wrecked cause such a report to be written where he wrecked the car?..the point is , if so, get a copy--although it seems if there were , the police would have contacted you from running the tag..donno...just asking...

8. Let your insurance co know about this..they can be helpful as your car was damaged by another insured occupant--covered by dealer's insurance--


Hope all works out for ya--but with that mileage, it most likely will not be much $$$---but the scare will do amazing things!!!!..Lets see!!
Good Luck--------Tom

martyo
01-26-2005, 04:51 PM
It could have been worse you could have been in the car when it hit Black Ice and you could have rolled it and died.

Now if that isn't the silver lining to the dark cloud, I don't know what is.

Marauder8
01-26-2005, 05:15 PM
This is not a perfect world and you are getting it repaired for free plus the use of a Town Car. I suggest that you live and let live. Luckily there was no personal injury.

Joe Walsh
01-26-2005, 05:15 PM
nWell, I am a bit ...no....alot perplexed here!!! I for one , also with a S/C MM , do not let anyone get in to drive it nor leave it without it being "in sight" of my eyes...got to much invested$$$........so I am really taken in that you would let some one "take it for a state mandated test drive" without you......and thats another thing.........what state do you live in guy?....cause I never heard of such a requirement-( doesn't mean of course it doesn't exist-just don't get it's purpose)---the car was "driven in" so why the mandated test drive?....NO way would that ever happen ---you should not have to test drive a car for "inspection purposes" as far as I am concerned......anyway-=-



I was thinking the same thing....the mechanic hit 'black ice'??? or DEEP THROTTLE??

I will never leave ANY of my modified cars at a Dealership ever since a buddy of mine had his New 1988 Turbo T-Bird totalled by a dealer's mechanic after a simple alignment and 'test drive'.*

Anyway, I'm really sorry about the damage to your Marauder. You had every right to be in a rage. :mad2: :mad:
I hope that you get a top notch body shop to make 'er like new.

*The dealership lent him a Tempo for a few days while they determined what to do with his T-Bird.....The Tempo was returned with LOTS of problems... ;)
( I didn't condone his actions but I can certainly understand them.)

GodOSpeed
01-26-2005, 05:16 PM
I allways demand that any test drives will be made by me. After all who knows the car better? You or some dude in a pair of greasy coveralls? I also take my before and after milage while in service. I guess I'm just kinda anal that way. Visions of me in mom and dads car start dancing in my head. :banned:

Bluerauder
01-26-2005, 06:06 PM
"I've got some bad news. While performing the state required road test, our mechanic hit a patch of black ice and your car has been damaged.”
I think that I would press for free oil changes and tire replacement for life. This dealer knows that his guy screwed up bigtime .... and this "black ice" excuse is getting worn a little thin. It's :bs: Ice is Ice ... the fact that he didn't see it or anticipate it didn't make it black............ :mad: Flimsy excuse at best. I think Joe hit the nail on the head !! :D

As far a diminished value ... it'll be hard to pinpoint a value. Ask for the oil and tires as "pain and suffering" compensation --- :rolleyes:

Silver_04
01-26-2005, 06:08 PM
Man that just ain't right. Glad the dealer is being professional about the situation. I would ask to see where the "black ice" was and see if there were any "black marks" in the same area. If so...I'd be making sure the wrench would be worried about his job.

Joe Walsh
01-26-2005, 06:45 PM
Man that just ain't right. Glad the dealer is being professional about the situation. I would ask to see where the "black ice" was and see if there were any "black marks" in the same area. If so...I'd be making sure the wrench would be worried about his job.

ABSOLUTELY!!! Ask them: Where did it happen??

My personal theory: Mechanic goes out for a test drive in a SUPERCHARGED Marauder.....Way more HP than he is used to....Goes around a corner at speed and then PUNCHES IT..... :drive: :eek: :eek: .....Whoa! Lost it big time.

One thing I've learned about driving high HP cars...Line 'em up straight BEFORE you punch it! (Unless you are in a big, open parking lot and want to do 'donuts'.)

wsmylie
01-26-2005, 07:23 PM
South Hills...sorry to hear bout your MM's mishap at the hands of the dealership. All the advise so far seems pretty sound. Tallboy is almost completely correct on Carfax getting accident info from the states... however there is another channel by which the accident/damage record info could make it to Carfax and that is through the Insurance Services Office (ISO) data base. The majority of auto insurance outfits report/enter vehicle damage and auto claims data by VIN, insured's name (and so on) into ISO as a central repository for such info to help spot multiple claims on same incident, fraud etc. I believe Carfax also has some limited access to this data. In short, there is little chance of keeping your car's damage history secret.... sounds like a diminished value situation to me.

Good luck buddy...hope it works out for you. Bill


The only way carfax finds out is if the insurance company reports the claim to the state. This is a practice for which the insurance companies are not compensated. Then, the department of motor vehicles must file the necessary paperwork. This is why carfax has the disclaimer they do. I have a mustang that has been totaled. Twice. Carfax report comes back spotless. Carfax is a joke.

CBT
01-26-2005, 07:43 PM
Sorry about the bad break, man. :(

cyclone03
01-26-2005, 07:45 PM
#1 Inform the dealer that this damage will not be entered in CARFAX!

I might even let them do the repair in house so they can cover up thier screw up from insurance= no VIN entry in CarFax.

DEMAND a complete Paint job.

If the car has ANY frame damage tell the dealer to start looking for another Marauder to replace yours! Now!
Thank you you just bought it! oh BTW $37,000 with Trilogy ,$34995 without.

YOu should have no problems with lifetime tires and oil changes!

wchain
01-26-2005, 07:47 PM
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49291&page=1&

Similar incident about a year ago.........

ncmm
01-26-2005, 07:54 PM
Very sorry to hear of this mishap. Hopefully the dealer will offer some sort of discount on another MM or vehicle of your choice in addition to repairing your MM. At least it was immediately broadcast to you there was a problem.
Best wishes on a more than satisfactory repair and resolution.

Donny Carlson
01-26-2005, 08:17 PM
Your car isn't as badly damaged as Todds, and his was successfully repaired to be the awesome head turner it is today. The loaner car is a given. However, there is the issue of diminished value, inconvenience to you, and the anguish you've suffered. That's worth something.

It can't hurt to accept the dealer's offer, as long he, say, adds an ESP plan to the deal, or agrees to some other value-added product or service.

South Hills
01-26-2005, 08:53 PM
:mad: :mad2: :mad:

You're a saint, because I would've shot the driver. And my dealership knows it.

I can't offer advice on the money parts. But, I figure a typical used '03 with your mileage has been selling for around 22-23K. With S/C I'd add another 3K for selling purposes. These cars don't have any collector value yet... won't for many years. I'd say you probably lost about 2K on the resale value. These points of view are solely from me, if I were to be looking at buying your car. I'd pay about 24K for it. I can assure you, though, that a dealership would bone you hard on a trade in. I'd imagine they might give you 18K for it.

Good Luck. Hope someone here can point you in the right direction with some real numbers.

Thanks Constable, I'm living and learning every day.

Phil

South Hills
01-26-2005, 09:03 PM
:mad: :mad2: :mad:

You're a saint, because I would've shot the driver. And my dealership knows it.

I can't offer advice on the money parts. But, I figure a typical used '03 with your mileage has been selling for around 22-23K. With S/C I'd add another 3K for selling purposes. These cars don't have any collector value yet... won't for many years. I'd say you probably lost about 2K on the resale value. These points of view are solely from me, if I were to be looking at buying your car. I'd pay about 24K for it. I can assure you, though, that a dealership would bone you hard on a trade in. I'd imagine they might give you 18K for it.

Good Luck. Hope someone here can point you in the right direction with some real numbers.

This is kinda what I'm thinking; a flawless repair of the MM still adds up two a couple of grand for pain, suffering, driving a t/c for several weeks, a huge aggravation factor, lost time, and of course diminished value. What form the "couple of grand" takes is open for discussion. I'd prefer cash over trade. I do think, though, that the adder for a Trilogy S/C properly installed and carefully tuned is more like 5-6K; for the right buyer.

I thought about getting into the mechanic a little bit, but didn't see the upside. He told his lammo story about "black ice'' instead of telling what I believe to be the fact- "to much HP'" , a heavy dose of youth and inexperience, a disregard for other's property, and an inclination to see what she'll do!

Thank you again,

Phil

South Hills
01-26-2005, 09:26 PM
Now if that isn't the silver lining to the dark cloud, I don't know what is.

Yeah Martyo, this is without doubt a bit darker of a perspective than I normally take. I guess you could end every analysis with " you cuda been hit by da bus".

South Hills
01-26-2005, 09:36 PM
Very sorry to hear of this mishap. Hopefully the dealer will offer some sort of discount on another MM or vehicle of your choice in addition to repairing your MM. At least it was immediately broadcast to you there was a problem.
Best wishes on a more than satisfactory repair and resolution.


Thanks ncmm; the Dealer Service Manager spent about 30 minutes examining the scene of the accident, and then some significant additional delay because it was a phone call he really did not want to make. We've all been there, and the sooner we do what we know we must do, the better.

BTW, both the Dealer Owner and the Service Manager admitted it was likely the black ice cover was total BS; more likely too much juice in the wrong hands.

Thank again,
Phil

South Hills
01-26-2005, 09:57 PM
nWell, I am a bit ...no....alot perplexed here!!! I for one , also with a S/C MM , do not let anyone get in to drive it nor leave it without it being "in sight" of my eyes...got to much invested$$$........so I am really taken in that you would let some one "take it for a state mandated test drive" without you......and thats another thing.........what state do you live in guy?....cause I never heard of such a requirement-( doesn't mean of course it doesn't exist-just don't get it's purpose)---the car was "driven in" so why the mandated test drive?....NO way would that ever happen ---you should not have to test drive a car for "inspection purposes" as far as I am concerned......anyway-=-

( note to self--remind self when I learn of your state--not to move there an register a car)--sorry--

OK --
I too suffered an incident way back--Here are some tips for ya---

1.Normally deminished value is only available up to 12K miles or one year, which ever comes first in the eyes of most insurance folks eyes-- so you may have been lucky there--I hope you are..

2. You should only be dealing with the dealerships Insurance Co. as to recouping any deminished value--Inform them in writing you plan to submit a claim for such when you car is repaired.--say no more than that at this time.
Ignore any reply comments. ( your in charge now--they know it)

3.After car is repaired- get estimates on sale value from Carmax (2), and one from another dealer. Tell the Carmax folks during # 1 visit you have no problems with car and never damaged---they will see that it has been damaged due to repainting and thus lower the $$ some...then on # 2 visit tell them it has been damaged( see a different person) and the get a second estimate--it will be pleanty lower than the first.

Get a third from another Dealer as to a trade in possibility..., then look up you car on the net for its book value with current miles and so forth---add maybe what you feel the S/c may add to it--

4. You now have four ideas of you cars value at different situations in which to come to an amount you feel is approiate to ask as to it's deminished value due to the wreck---you need to establish it's value before wreck and afterwards at current mileage vs afterwards....thus the diff..

5..Chances are you wil not get what you want , but the paper work will be impressive enough they may feel you are capable of going to your Lawyer if not satisfied...

6..The insurance co usually has a limit they will pay for deminished value ---somewhat preset, but your paper actions can elevate that if they fear legal action is possible ----so .

7.They may try and call you and record your call to get you to do what they want and agree to what they say--Do NOT give in to this!---


I have some other questions--Did you call the police and have them fill out and accident report?.. Did the guy who wrecked cause such a report to be written where he wrecked the car?..the point is , if so, get a copy--although it seems if there were , the police would have contacted you from running the tag..donno...just asking...

8. Let your insurance co know about this..they can be helpful as your car was damaged by another insured occupant--covered by dealer's insurance--


Hope all works out for ya--but with that mileage, it most likely will not be much $$$---but the scare will do amazing things!!!!..Lets see!!
Good Luck--------Tom


Tom:

Thank you for the insights; all good stuff. You can be assured I will never again leave a heavily modified rig, unsupervised, with any service provider. As my wife was screaming yesterday at the Dealership, lungs fully expanded, " he doesn't even let me drive the Marauder."

I learn each day, and this was yesterday's lesson. I had not remembered that the great Commonwealth of PA requires an after inspection road test. I will not put myself in this position again.

To another observation you made, the Dealer did not call the police, although we did after the fact, in addition to interviewing the businesses in the vicinity of the one car-too much power-too much testosterone- guard rail event. No witnesses came forward, and the road was wet (not icy) so no black strip of rubber is to be expected.

Appreciate your advice Tom.

Phil

Merc-O-matic
01-26-2005, 10:03 PM
In this case I would have the car fixed, then sell it,
buy a new Marauder, .i.e. (used with low mileage)
plenty of them out there....and start all over again.
Second lesson....is never ever let anyone drive
your Marauder.Period. This car was not built to
be driven by anybody except it's owner...."they"
are very sensitive to their environment. Hi Hi
sorta like a "thoroughbred" race horse.

Good Luck!

sailsmen
01-27-2005, 04:57 AM
The diminished value just isn't there because almost all cars are wacked with in 5 years. This is why the market place does not differentiate, we don't see "virgin" cars being advertised and people paying a premium for them.

RoyLPita
01-27-2005, 04:59 AM
Sorry the hear about the damage to your MM. You mentioned PA, Is "South Hills" (near Pittsburgh) where you live? I came from Penn Hills myself.

prchrman
01-27-2005, 06:00 AM
Sounds like the dealer is trying to make it right...maybe this will happen to mine and I can get the sorry paint replaced, free...willie

maraudernkc
01-27-2005, 09:15 AM
Your car has been devauled by at least 20%.

Think about it if there were two MM on the lot that were used and they both had the same milage and then you run a car fax and find out that one had $8000.00 worth of body damage done.

Which one would you buy?

I would tell the Dealer to take your car and get you a new one.

You know the guy driving it was on the gas.

I am gettimg mad just thinking if that were my car.

Good luck and I am sorry about your car.

Greg


Dear MM Owners:

I wanted to tap into the collective expertise of this group. Yesterday, I took my 2003 MM (11,000 miles) to the L/M Dealership where I bought it in August of 2002. All wrenching done to the MM to date (save the S/C adder from Trilogy and a few other goodies installed by Lidio) has occurred at this Dealer.

The work order yesterday included a state- mandated annual inspection and emissions test and an oil/filter change. Drop off time is 8:00 bells. At approximately 10:30 AM, the service manager calls; "I've got some bad news. While performing the state required road test, our mechanic hit a patch of black ice and your car has been damaged.” Needless to say, I became slightly unhinged at this point.

I went down to look at the car (I have attached a few photos taken at the dealership) and the damage was significant; at least one hit to the front end and another to the rear quarter. I spent about an hour talking, fairly calmly under the circumstances, with the Service Manager and the Owner of the Dealership. I should note that I have had a good experience with this Dealer up to this juncture. The Dealer has done a good job of addressing any and all issues with the MM, including repairs of a few imperfections in the original paint, replacing all four wheels due to slight imperfections, working with me on other warranty claims unrelated to the S/C install, etc.

The Dealer has offered a rental car (Town Car) for the duration my MM is out of commission and agreed to have all repairs performed at their expense. The Dealer has also agreed to use the body shop of my choice to do the repairs, although they have their own in-house body shop services.

I drove the MM to my body shop of preference (everything mechanical appeared to be okay on the drive over) and spoke with the owner. He estimates the repairs will take three to four weeks and the repair cost will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $6,000 - $8,000 (he had not yet fully inspected the vehicle). I have a good degree of comfort with the quality of work the body shop will do as I have used them before and their work has been first rate.

I wanted to get the perspectives of the club on getting “diminished value” with this fact pattern. My current thinking (and I would much appreciate any other approaches or recommendations this group may have) is to get written estimates of the reduction in value to the MM because it has been in an accident (assuming the repair work is complete and flawless) from at least two other L/M dealerships. Then I will ask the responsible Dealership to pay the average of the two estimates. Assuming they agree, we are done. If not, I will connect with their Garage Keepers Liability insurance provider and pursue legal remedies.

Any guidance the group can offer would be very much appreciated. Has anyone experienced anything like this before? Any numbers on “diminished value” anyone has seen for the MM? I am in very unfamiliar territory here and unsure exactly how to proceed.

Thank you in advance for your feedback and advice.

Phil

teamrope
01-27-2005, 09:17 AM
Your car has been devauled by at least 20%.

Think about it if there were two MM on the lot that were used and they booth had the same milage and then you run a car fax and find out that one had $8000.00 worth of body damage done.

Which one would you buy?

I would tell the Dealer to take your car and get you a new one.

You know the guy driving it was on the gas.

I am gettimg mad just thinking if that were my car.

Good luck and I am sorry about your car.

Greg

But will the new one have the mods? As long as there is no structural (Frame) damage I'de keep it.

maraudernkc
01-27-2005, 09:37 AM
One more thing about the carfax issue. Let's say that the dealer pays cash and does not use his Insurance company for the repair. It will not show up on a Carfax.


When you go to sell the car and they ask you has the car ever had any body damage at this point if you say no and they find out other wise you could be sued.

If asked you have to tell the truth as I am sure you would want to any way.

I talked to the used car manager at my LM dealer and told him the story and was trying to find out about how much the car has been devauled and he said that he would take the car in on trade but would not keep it on his lot.

They would get bids from wholesalers.

I think you need to prove that this was not black ice and there are two tire marks out there on the road where someone could handle the S/C MM.

I would demand a new car and nothing less.

maraudernkc
01-27-2005, 09:40 AM
I would have them switch the mods.

It was there fault 100%.



But will the new one have the mods? As long as there is no structural (Frame) damage I'de keep it.

Mike Poore
01-27-2005, 10:03 AM
... "I've got some bad news. While performing the state required road test, our mechanic hit a patch of black ice and your car has been damaged.” Phil
Phil, I don't believe it was anything more than a joyride. PA has "mandatory" road test as part of the inspection process as well, but I can't think of a single inspection garage that will allow any of their service techs to "test" drive a customer's show car or high performance vehicle that's in for inspection. When we take Sunshine for her annual inspection, I drive it into the inspection bay and do the horn, brakes, and light tests. They don't sit in the car nor do they touch it, as they do not want the responsibility for any damages that might occur.

As far as your getting a pound of "flesh", I'm certain, both the service manager and the idiot who smashed your car have been fired and are looking for work. It seems to me, your dealer is doing everything he can to make it right, by giving you an acceptable car to drive, and letting you have the work done at the place of your choice.

Pain, suffering and retribution? There are many ways this could have been worse, and, it seems to me, the dealer's been more than fair in other matters, the rims, for instance, and I think you should give him the chance to make it right. In my opinion, learn what you can from the experience, make the best deal you can, and move on.

Your MM will be just fine, and will look good as new, with it's 100% total new paint job with the very best materials your body shop has to offer, ...if you get my drift.:D

BTW, I'm betting he has insurance to cover his end of the damage.

bobbyc
01-27-2005, 10:15 AM
I thought about your situation a lot last night and I think the dealership should find you another Marauder and give you the trick parts off your car. There are some great deals on low mileage MM's at Autotrader.com. No way you should have to live with a car you loved and they crashed. Once crashed it'll never be the same. They can afford to replace it...you're being WAY too nice. Get on the net and find a clean low mileage car... and good luck!

maraudernkc
01-27-2005, 11:36 AM
You can say that again!


I thought about your situation a lot last night and I think the dealership should find you another Marauder and give you the trick parts off your car. There are some great deals on low mileage MM's at Autotrader.com. No way you should have to live with a car you loved and they crashed. Once crashed it'll never be the same. They can afford to replace it...you're being WAY too nice. Get on the net and find a clean low mileage car... and good luck!

Dr Caleb
01-27-2005, 11:42 AM
I thought about it too, and I wouldn't go for the pain and suffering angle ethier. Mostly because that isn't my personality. The mechanic, service manager or dealer didn't do this on purpose. Since the dealer is willing to make things right, see if he'll send your wheels out to be nickle plated, or throw on an MMC driveshaft to ease your trauma and re-imburse you for any lowering of the value of your car ;)

FastMerc
01-27-2005, 03:58 PM
The only way carfax finds out is if the insurance company reports the claim to the state. This is a practice for which the insurance companies are not compensated. Then, the department of motor vehicles must file the necessary paperwork. This is why carfax has the disclaimer they do. I have a mustang that has been totaled. Twice. Carfax report comes back spotless. Carfax is a joke. Your not kidding I got burned due to them:mad2:

PJR
01-27-2005, 05:35 PM
To another observation you made, the Dealer did not call the police, although we did after the fact, in addition to interviewing the businesses in the vicinity of the one car-too much power-too much testosterone- guard rail event. No witnesses came forward, and the road was wet (not icy) so no black strip of rubber is to be expected.

Make sure they complete a report. In my state any damage that exceeds $500 requires a mandatory report on the state crash form. If in the long run this results in civil litigation, a police report by an unbiased investigator can be very helpful.

South Hills
01-27-2005, 07:01 PM
Sorry the hear about the damage to your MM. You mentioned PA, Is "South Hills" (near Pittsburgh) where you live? I came from Penn Hills myself.

Thank you for the comment; yes, just south of the "burgh". BTW, the S/C is no doubt the best thing you can do to the MM. It becomes a complete monster.

Regards,

Phil

South Hills
01-27-2005, 07:19 PM
Your car has been devauled by at least 20%.

Think about it if there were two MM on the lot that were used and they both had the same milage and then you run a car fax and find out that one had $8000.00 worth of body damage done.

Which one would you buy?

I would tell the Dealer to take your car and get you a new one.

You know the guy driving it was on the gas.

I am gettimg mad just thinking if that were my car.

Good luck and I am sorry about your car.

Greg

Greg:

You and me both are getting madder by the moment. Spot on about the two cars sitting on the lot; one virgin, one with $8K worth of of dealer-applied hurt. I'm opening with "brand new MM (I guess there are '04's still sitting on lots), Trilogy S/C installed by Lidio, trucked from MC to my driveway."

We'll take it from there, but that seems to be a good launch point.

Thank you,

Phil

maraudernkc
01-27-2005, 10:25 PM
Phil, Good Luck! If you can't get a new one out of them than they at least owe you a 8K car that's perfect and switch all the mods.

Again, good luck!

Greg



Greg:

You and me both are getting madder by the moment. Spot on about the two cars sitting on the lot; one virgin, one with $8K worth of of dealer-applied hurt. I'm opening with "brand new MM (I guess there are '04's still sitting on lots), Trilogy S/C installed by Lidio, trucked from MC to my driveway."

We'll take it from there, but that seems to be a good launch point.

Thank you,

Phil

tbore007
01-28-2005, 08:48 AM
if i were you, id beat the piss out of that town car.............

Fastronald
01-28-2005, 03:36 PM
Since the dealer stepped up and is willing to pay for the repairs, I'd let them fix it and be done. They have more respect for your and your car than most dealers do.

wesman
01-28-2005, 07:44 PM
This is sickening, and that link for the M3 story was horrible. After the fact though, I kinda like the idea of a car so fast a normal person can't drive it without getting into trouble. Makes us non S/C guys know what we are missing. Maybe Lidio could make up a valet mode with 2000rpm rev limit on a toggle chip or something?

South Hills
08-27-2005, 07:14 PM
Gentlemen:

It has been several months, but this story finally has an end. As I troubled you with the details and asked for your advice, I want to put forward the final outcome.

I received in today’s mail a check in the amount of $5,200.00 from the dealership’s liability insurance provider, Universal Underwriters, for the inherent diminished value loss I sustained when the dealer’s mechanic lost control of my car (beautiful piece of driving, yes?) and navigated it into a guard rail during a road test subsequent to our required annual state inspection.

My Marauder was in the shop for 8 weeks, during which time the dealer provided a rental car. The final repair bill was $8,200.00, paid by the dealer/insurance provider. The body shop did a competent job, and the car looks very much like an immaculate, customized, supercharged Marauder that was wrecked and then repair.

I had a sit down with the dealership’s owner the day I picked-up the car from the body shop. To make a long story short, the owner told me I’d get over my feeling of loss with the passage of time. The A-H generously offered me two new rear tires as compensation, presumably out of the goodness of his lion-sized heart, as he stated that diminished value due to accident damage is a myth. It had to be a strain for him to hypothesize that my car was in better condition than before the accident, due to the high-quality repair work it received, as my vehicle was perfect condition prior to his employee driving it into a guard rail. But, he did it any way.

After several months of writing numerous letters to the dealer's owner, and every entity I could think of that might push the issue toward resolution, I reluctantly filed a civil claim against the dealership last week. Two days after the filing, the dealer’s insurance carrier called and expressed interest in settling. I demanded $5,200.00, and, after a bit of back and forth, they met this demand.

The key point I’d like to share here is that if some nimrod is responsible for damaging your Marauder, you are absolutely entitled, under tort law, to receive any difference in value before and after the injury, and the reasonable cost of repairs, plus any expenses reasonably incurred as a result of the injury. I have seen a few other accidents mentioned on our site, and for any third-party claims, it’s absolutely worth going after the diminished value loss to your MM.

Regards,

Phil

fastblackmerc
08-27-2005, 07:24 PM
Gentlemen:

It has been several months, but this story finally has an end. As I troubled you with the details and asked for your advice, I want to put forward the final outcome.

I received in today’s mail a check in the amount of $5,200.00 from the dealership’s liability insurance provider, Universal Underwriters, for the inherent diminished value loss I sustained when the dealer’s mechanic lost control of my car (beautiful piece of driving, yes?) and navigated it into a guard rail during a road test subsequent to our required annual state inspection.

My Marauder was in the shop for 8 weeks, during which time the dealer provided a rental car. The final repair bill was $8,200.00, paid by the dealer/insurance provider. The body shop did a competent job, and the car looks very much like an immaculate, customized, supercharged Marauder that was wrecked and then repair.

I had a sit down with the dealership’s owner the day I picked-up the car from the body shop. To make a long story short, the owner told me I’d get over my feeling of loss with the passage of time. The A-H generously offered me two new rear tires as compensation, presumably out of the goodness of his lion-sized heart, as he stated that diminished value due to accident damage is a myth. It had to be a strain for him to hypothesize that my car was in better condition than before the accident, due to the high-quality repair work it received, as my vehicle was perfect condition prior to his employee driving it into a guard rail. But, he did it any way.

After several months of writing numerous letters to the dealer's owner, and every entity I could think of that might push the issue toward resolution, I reluctantly filed a civil claim against the dealership last week. Two days after the filing, the dealer’s insurance carrier called and expressed interest in settling. I demanded $5,200.00, and, after a bit of back and forth, they met this demand.

The key point I’d like to share here is that if some nimrod is responsible for damaging your Marauder, you are absolutely entitled, under tort law, to receive any difference in value before and after the injury, and the reasonable cost of repairs, plus any expenses reasonably incurred as a result of the injury. I have seen a few other accidents mentioned on our site, and for any third-party claims, it’s absolutely worth going after the diminished value loss to your MM.

Regards,

Phil
Just curious... how did you arrive at the $5,200.00 figure? Would like to know just in case....

Petrograde
08-27-2005, 07:33 PM
Thanks for the update Phil. I'm glad you got something for your troubles. so,.. how she drive? She still track straight?

South Hills
08-27-2005, 07:43 PM
Just curious... how did you arrive at the $5,200.00 figure? Would like to know just in case....

It was the total of a diminished value appraisal $4,730.00, the cost of that appraisal $259.00, plus court costs for filing the civil claim $122.50, and the cost of certified letters I had sent to the dealership $4.65. Added up to $5,116.15, round-up to the nearest $100.00.

Regards,

Phil

Blackened300a
08-27-2005, 07:46 PM
This is the first time reading about this and That Was Great that the dealer stepped forward and ate the cost of the Repair. Its even better to be compensated by the insurance for the loss of value, However, There is no Dollar amount that can give back the feeling of the way it was Before The Dope got behind the Wheel.
No matter How perfect the Repair is, Its just not the same.

Sorry to hear about your Ordeal.

South Hills
08-27-2005, 07:47 PM
Thanks for the update Phil. I'm glad you got something for your troubles. so,.. how she drive? She still track straight?

Thanks for the comment Petrograde; the MM looks and drives great, and it is fast like a locomotive at full-boil. And, I feel good about her for the first time in eight months!

South Hills
08-27-2005, 08:03 PM
This is the first time reading about this and That Was Great that the dealer stepped forward and ate the cost of the Repair. Its even better to be compensated by the insurance for the loss of value, However, There is no Dollar amount that can give back the feeling of the way it was Before The Dope got behind the Wheel.
No matter How perfect the Repair is, Its just not the same.

Sorry to hear about your Ordeal.

You are spot-on Blackened300A, and thank you for your comments; this car is my baby, and I would very much like to turn-the-clock-back to the morning I dropped the MM off at the dealership for a state inspection and oil/filter change.

I would have hung around, and insisted on ridding along for the test drive to the extent that one was necessary. We know that had I done this, the MM would not have been smashed. And, that, to your point, would be priceless!

Regards,

Phil

David Morton
08-27-2005, 08:09 PM
In my town I'd say live and let live on that resale value thing. Sounds like you have a good dealership there and they are the defenders of your warranty. Slam them on the depreciation thing and they may be looking for "customer pays" should your transmission take a dump (or almost anything else for that matter).

You've got a modified car and a very good one at that. Much of the factory parts are (to say the least) stressed by the 400+ rwhp the engine is making. Act like your giving them a break and maybe, just maybe, a good relationship can be salvaged. My local LM dealership is one of those "see if he'll buy the 'warranty won't pay' story first, then if he's an a$$ and threatens to call the factory give him the 'we'll take care of you' story and put him down in the book" type of store. So I take mine to the SVT superstore AutoWay Ford and they're very friendly and look out for me, so I look out for them and give them all my business. Nearest LM outlet is 25 miles away so I keep on good terms with AutoWay.

You can go shoot the mechanic after the car is fixed. Heck you might ask the owner if you can chip in on the assasins' fee if he's thinking of going that route, as he just might be considering that option.
:lol:

jgc61sr2002
08-27-2005, 08:23 PM
Phil Congrats. :D You handled the situtation very well. :up:

South Hills
08-27-2005, 08:59 PM
Phil Congrats. :D You handled the situtation very well. :up:

Thanks John. It took almost eight months and a lot of patience to get a reasonable result. The dealer was clearly obligated to pay for repairs and also replacement transportation while my MM was in the body shop. Those who would offer the dealer “bonus points” for doing what is minimally required by the law seem to be a bit off-center.

Recovering the loss in value to my MM was difficult, but worth doing. It was never about the money, it was about the principle. When I sat down with the owner of the dealership (after picking-up the MM from the body shop), had he not been offensive and arrogant, but rather apologetic and conciliatory, we would have resolved this on a hand-shake and a promise of mutual consideration. Regrettably, the conversation did not go this way, and he did not respond to several letters I sent subsequently which offered compromise resolutions. I guess we all live and learn through life experiences.

Regards,

Phil

BillyGman
08-27-2005, 10:31 PM
I don't mean to get off-topic here, but your home state requires a test drive of your car to be performed? What state do you live in?

RCSignals
08-27-2005, 11:28 PM
I don't mean to get off-topic here, but your home state requires a test drive of your car to be performed? What state do you live in?

I think he's in PA.
But I was wondering about this 'state mandated' test drive as well. I've heard of dynos being used while being monitored by test eqipment, but not road test drives.

Cobra25
08-28-2005, 05:43 AM
This is what I experenced, While at a Caddy Dealer servicing my Deville's brakes, one of the guys desides to take the car off the rack to do a oil change( which wasn't on the repair order) Brakes not fixed yet( No Brakes) and drive's it out of the bay and hits a brick wall. The front right fender and front bumper totled. They fixed it & they also gave me a rental car & a check for $1500 for Diminished Value ( only because I insisted ), the car was 1 year old and has never been hit.

Petrograde
08-28-2005, 06:08 AM
They do test drives in Texas too,..

gpfarrell
08-28-2005, 06:16 AM
I don't mean to get off-topic here, but your home state requires a test drive of your car to be performed? What state do you live in?

I'm not sure where he is, but Pennsylvania does "require" a road test in the safety inspection. I think the dyno tests are more emissions oriented.

Vortex
08-28-2005, 06:24 AM
They do test drives in Texas too,..
Is that right? For what, inspections?

Petrograde
08-28-2005, 06:33 AM
Is that right? For what, inspections?

yup.... I guess you've never hung around during the inspection?

67435animal
08-28-2005, 10:50 AM
Dear MM Owners:

I wanted to tap into the collective expertise of this group. Yesterday, I took my 2003 MM (11,000 miles) to the L/M Dealership where I bought it in August of 2002. All wrenching done to the MM to date (save the S/C adder from Trilogy and a few other goodies installed by Lidio) has occurred at this Dealer.

The work order yesterday included a state- mandated annual inspection and emissions test and an oil/filter change. Drop off time is 8:00 bells. At approximately 10:30 AM, the service manager calls; "I've got some bad news. While performing the state required road test, our mechanic hit a patch of black ice and your car has been damaged.” Needless to say, I became slightly unhinged at this point.

I went down to look at the car (I have attached a few photos taken at the dealership) and the damage was significant; at least one hit to the front end and another to the rear quarter. I spent about an hour talking, fairly calmly under the circumstances, with the Service Manager and the Owner of the Dealership. I should note that I have had a good experience with this Dealer up to this juncture. The Dealer has done a good job of addressing any and all issues with the MM, including repairs of a few imperfections in the original paint, replacing all four wheels due to slight imperfections, working with me on other warranty claims unrelated to the S/C install, etc.

The Dealer has offered a rental car (Town Car) for the duration my MM is out of commission and agreed to have all repairs performed at their expense. The Dealer has also agreed to use the body shop of my choice to do the repairs, although they have their own in-house body shop services.

I drove the MM to my body shop of preference (everything mechanical appeared to be okay on the drive over) and spoke with the owner. He estimates the repairs will take three to four weeks and the repair cost will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $6,000 - $8,000 (he had not yet fully inspected the vehicle). I have a good degree of comfort with the quality of work the body shop will do as I have used them before and their work has been first rate.

I wanted to get the perspectives of the club on getting “diminished value” with this fact pattern. My current thinking (and I would much appreciate any other approaches or recommendations this group may have) is to get written estimates of the reduction in value to the MM because it has been in an accident (assuming the repair work is complete and flawless) from at least two other L/M dealerships. Then I will ask the responsible Dealership to pay the average of the two estimates. Assuming they agree, we are done. If not, I will connect with their Garage Keepers Liability insurance provider and pursue legal remedies.

Any guidance the group can offer would be very much appreciated. Has anyone experienced anything like this before? Any numbers on “diminished value” anyone has seen for the MM? I am in very unfamiliar territory here and unsure exactly how to proceed.

Thank you in advance for your feedback and advice.

Phil

I had about 8K worth of damage done to my car about 1 1/2 years ago. I requested diminished value and got another $1050. If you don't go after it, it won't be offered to you.

South Hills
08-28-2005, 11:49 AM
I don't mean to get off-topic here, but your home state requires a test drive of your car to be performed? What state do you live in?

Billy:

I live in PA, and they do require a road test. Believe you me, I looked at that issue closely to see if it was optional/required/dependant on worked performed or mileage, etc. I read the DOT regs, and one road test is mandated, and a RT before and after the inspection would be consistent with the language.

We have an annual emissions test as well.

Regards,

Phil

jgc61sr2002
08-28-2005, 03:46 PM
There is NO road test in NY, in downstate counties, which require emissions testing.


The Dyno is out for all 1996 and above vehicles. The simply plug directly into your computer. Check engine light on = failure.

Svashtar
08-28-2005, 06:54 PM
I allways demand that any test drives will be made by me. After all who knows the car better? You or some dude in a pair of greasy coveralls? I also take my before and after milage while in service. I guess I'm just kinda anal that way. Visions of me in mom and dads car start dancing in my head. :banned: Damned right! When I was a kid I worked for Chevron for a few years in the shop, and half the fun was taking the Jags and Vettes and GTO's we worked on out for long "test drives". I'm not going to let a 19 year old version of me back then near my car now.

Half the time they just break something else. In my other car I have had guys pile in with screwdrivers in their back pockets and rip holes in the seats, blast the stereo and ruin a speaker, and in my MM I had a guy get permatex gasket compound all over the seat.

I think you'll be fine on the repairs, and will probably end up with a better paint job in the damaged areas. You did a good job getting the wheels fixed when you got the car. I had them fix several things at first, but just found a small blem on one of the wheels after I had the car a couple of months and didn't want to fight with them any more. Since I got it new for less than 25K I figured I had done well enough.

Good luck on your repairs, and I hope you get all you can out of them.

(I just read the whole thread and see that you did do very well, but you earned your $ over 8 months of hassle! Guess you could say they paid for your S/C, or at least most of it. So one dumba$$ driver and they are out close to $15K.)

Norm

South Hills
08-28-2005, 07:57 PM
[QUOTE=Svashtar]Damned right! When I was a kid I worked for Chevron for a few years in the shop, and half the fun was taking the Jags and Vettes and GTO's we worked on out for long "test drives". I'm not going to let a 19 year old version of me back then near my car now.

Half the time they just break something else. In my other car I have had guys pile in with screwdrivers in their back pockets and rip holes in the seats, blast the stereo and ruin a speaker, and in my MM I had a guy get permatex gasket compound all over the seat.

I think you'll be fine on the repairs, and will probably end up with a better paint job in the damaged areas. You did a good job getting the wheels fixed when you got the car. I had them fix several things at first, but just found a small blem on one of the wheels after I had the car a couple of months and didn't want to fight with them any more. Since I got it new for less than 25K I figured I had done well enough.

Good luck on your repairs, and I hope you get all you can out of them.

(I just read the whole thread and see that you did do very well, but you earned your $ over 8 months of hassle! Guess you could say they paid for your S/C, or at least most of it. So one dumba$$ driver and they are out close to $15K.)

Yeah Svashtar, that's about the way the math works out for them; one nimrod on a joy ride equals $8,200 in body work done by an independent shop, $5,200 in cold hard cash paid to yours truly for the DV, rental from Enterprise for eight weeks of a town car while the MM is recuperating ($1,300) and the kicker, they threw-in the Mobil One reload and filter change plus the state inspection/emissions test fees.

Just under $15,000, all because the dealership is run by and staffed with morons. And to your earlier point, this highly-skilled crew cost me seven months of my time trying to help them get their heads fully extracted from their collective backsides. I am beginning to wonder who came out on top here? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

STLR FN
08-28-2005, 08:08 PM
South Hills,

This wouldn't happen to be Benson L/M on 51? If so I'll make a mental note not to take my Marauder there for service when I'm home. I'm originally from Belle Vernon.

Wondering out loud..... Would DV work on self inflicted wounds? ie wife crunched front of MM @ Memorial Day.

South Hills
08-28-2005, 08:49 PM
South Hills,

This wouldn't happen to be Benson L/M on 51? If so I'll make a mental note not to take my Marauder there for service when I'm home. I'm originally from Belle Vernon.

Wondering out loud..... Would DV work on self inflicted wounds? ie wife crunched front of MM @ Memorial Day.

STLR FN:

No, this is not Benson; it's SH L/M in McMurray. The self inflicted wound you describe is problematic. Not tot say it can't happen, but it is a much longer put. This is called a 1st-party claim (one made by you against your own insurance policy), and only a hand full of states require DV payments for 1st -party claims (the Peach state is one). In these instances, the language contained in your insurance contract is determinative, and many are either silent on this isssue or specifically exclude 1st-party claims for DV.

My case was a 3rd-party case with no contractual relationship in-play between the parties involved. In these instances, absent relevant contract law, tort law provisions in all 50 states allow recovery for the difference in pre-injury value of property and post injury value of property, plus the cost of reasonable repairs and other reasonable expenses. The theory at its heart here seeks to leave the damaged whole after the regrettable event; to be no worse or no better of than before the tortfeasors act.

Hope this is clear, and provides some sense of an answer to your kind question,

Regards,

POhil

STLR FN
08-28-2005, 09:16 PM
Checked out my policy and my insurers website, I'm SOL but there are some loop holes but lots of hoops have to be jumped through in order to get it. More aggrevation than it's worth... Oh well.
STLR FN:

No, this is not Benson; it's SH L/M in McMurray. The self inflicted wound you describe is problematic. Not tot say it can't happen, but it is a much longer put. This is called a 1st-party claim (one made by you against your own insurance policy), and only a hand full of states require DV payments for 1st -party claims (the Peach state is one). In these instances, the language contained in your insurance contract is determinative, and many are either silent on this isssue or specifically exclude 1st-party claims for DV.

My case was a 3rd-party case with no contractual relationship in-play between the parties involved. In these instances, absent relevant contract law, tort law provisions in all 50 states allow recovery for the difference in pre-injury value of property and post injury value of property, plus the cost of reasonable repairs and other reasonable expenses. The theory at its heart here seeks to leave the damaged whole after the regrettable event; to be no worse or no better of than before the tortfeasors act.

Hope this is clear, and provides some sense of an answer to your kind question,

Regards,

POhil

DeepSea117
08-29-2005, 07:37 PM
I want to know what happens to the "joyrider". I believe this person's driver's license should be suspended for no less than a year. Public transportation, jerk! Also nothing but full coverage for insurance on any vehicle he is assocated with for the next five years after he gets his license back on, even on a POS. And have the five year requirement lapse only while this guy has a current policy, so he can't wait it out. That will hopefully give this f-cker a chance to test his highly-skilled driving on said POS.

I just can't stand it when people seem to get off with a slap on the wrist, when you are more than inconvenienced. Like car thieves.