Procharger Kit Photos

[maraudernkc]

Procharger Engine shot
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc4.jpg
Procharger another engine shot
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc5.jpg
Engine side shot
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc1.jpg
Intercooler with scoop
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc2.jpg
Close up of Procharger Blower
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc3.jpg
Intercooler with scoop Major Ram Air Effect It does not get more Efficient
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc6.jpg
Intercooler with scoop with 4 2x4 underneath = 6 1/4 inches of ground clearance or 1/4 inch lower than the crossmember.http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc7.jpg

[torinodan]

LOOK NICE!!!! :rock::up::rock::up:

[CBT]

How close to the ground is that scoop?

[MarauderMark]

LOOK NICE!!!! :rock::up::rock::up:


Yea that looks totally bad ass!!!! Only thing It looks like the dam is hanging a little low or is it the picture?? Ha you got those railroad ties in your driveway too...

[ADE 1000]

The cooler looks like its in one hell of a vulnerable position.

Otherwise, it looks well done.

[maraudernkc]

6 1/4 Inches or a 1/4 lower than your cossmember.


How close to the ground is that scoop?

[merc]

Wow, that's all I can say. :burn:

[jgc61sr2002]

That sure looks great. :D :up:

[sfsv]

:) Boy, I see someone else has discovered the limousine control arms.

[Joe Walsh]

Greg, That is one sweet installation.... :banana2: :up:
I couldn't see in the photos, but I assume there is a bypass valve and tubing between the Compressor discharge pipe and the intake piping?

Piping is powder coated or 'Jet-Hot' coated?

[Patrick]

Awsome!!! Thanks!!!!!!

[Bradley G]

Thanks Greg,

That is one sweet looking set-up!.I am not trying to beat ya to death on the intercooler height, cause it has been mentioned several times.The pics are always decieving ,the cooler is the closest part to the camera ,thus it will look bigger than it actually is.What is the height of a tire stop in a parking lot?Any progress finding someone to tune the project? First Rate Kit Greg!
Thank you for your efforts!
Continued sucess!
Bradley G

[maraudernkc]

There is indeed a Pro Flow by pass valve. The fiting is on the underneath side of the intake to the blower and all tubing is powder coated. We also have the PCV on the that intake tube going to the blower. You don't want it in the the other side or you would have boost in your crankcase. Not good.


Greg, That is one sweet installation.... :banana2: :up:
I couldn't see in the photos, but I assume there is a bypass valve and tubing between the Compressor discharge pipe and the intake piping?

Piping is powder coated or 'Jet-Hot' coated?

[RoyLPita]

Very nice. If TMAC buys his, then I'll see an example close up.

[maraudernkc]

Bradley G, like I mentioned before the air scoop is a 1/4 inch lower than the cross member or there is 6 1/4 inches of grond clearance to the scoop. The car runs by far the best with the intercooler and scoop there. That's why we have it there. I would not take a chance at a tire stop. Leave room.

The tune! I am glad you asked this question.

I talked to SCT direct yesterday and they gave me the name of a Authorized SCT dealer out of State and guarnteed me that they would work in conjuction with this dealer to get the tune perfect. I have a kit going out to a member next week and they will be tuning the car at this dealer with SCT's expertise. There is no one in our small maket here that can tune our MM.

Thanks, Greg


Thanks Greg,

That is one sweet looking set-up!.I am not trying to beat ya to death on the intercooler height, cause it has been mentioned several times.The pics are always decieving ,the cooler is the closest part to the camera ,thus it will look bigger than it actually is.What is the height of a tire stop in a parking lot?Any progress finding someone to tune the project? First Rate Kit Greg!
Thank you for your efforts!
Continued sucess!
Bradley G

[Cobra25]

A really nice looking kit Greg. I'm looking foward to hearing more on the tune & how well it goes. Thanks for all your hard work.

[maraudernkc]

C6bra25, Thank you, now that SCT said they would work with us thru a SCT tuner the kit will be tuned to perfection.

Hell it ran good with the base SCT file. 454RWHP at 9PSI We are going to have to detune the kit once it is dialed in properly

Greg


A really nice looking kit Greg. I'm looking foward to hearing more on the tune & how well it goes. Thanks for all your hard work.

[maraudernkc]

Not many people will see the scoop because you will be in front of them however they will see you A** end. :banana2: :banana2:

[Bradley G]

Hey Greg,thank you,when you say de-tune,Are you refering to increasing the a/f to a safer ratio,or retarding the spark or both ?Is this to increase longetivity?

Bradley G

?
C6bra25, Thank you, now that SCT said they would work with us thru a SCT tuner the kit will be tuned to perfection.

Hell it ran good with the base SCT file. 454RWHP at 9PSI We are going to have to detune the kit once it is dialed in properly

Greg

[maraudernkc]

BadleyG, the A/F ratio is on the rich side now. It needs to be leaned out from 0 to 3000RPM for fuel economy. The spark is also fine. Since the car is rich on the top end and still makes 454RWHP when they lean it out to 11.8 to 1 it will add even more RWHP. We than will be able to to detune by running less Boost at around 8PSI to decrease HP.

I think that 450RWHP is too much HP for these motors and be safe for everyday driving on pump gas.

That is my opnion. I would perfer to see about 420RWHP at 8PSI.

Thanks, Greg




Hey Greg,thank you,when you say de-tune,Are you refering to increasing the a/f to a safer ratio,or retarding the spark or both ?Is this to increase longetivity?

Bradley G

?

[studio460]

WOW! The kit looks GREAT, Greg! Love that scoop, too--I bet that scoop is very efficient. CAN'T WAIT!!!

P.S. Greg--don't forget about us in California where we can ONLY get 91-octane fuel! Hopefully, you'll have time to work with the SCT vendor on working on a good, SAFE, 91-octane tuning file for those of us who are limited to 91!

[tmac1337]

De-tuning to 420-30 RWHP is the safe way to go. At least we know the kit produces an abundance of HP and TQ at 9 psi. I would like to have a car running 8 psi in the 420 range at 6000 RPM with as much TQ as a tuner could get me (hopefully @400).

This kit will probably produce HP in the 380-400 range with 7 psi, excellent results Greg!

Backing into some parking spaces is a small price to pay to enjoy the performance of the kit and the aggressive look of the intercooler and scoop up front.

It is good to hear that Maraudernkc is resolving the tuning issue with SCT. I am interested to see the results this effort produces now that you have identified a tuner.

Now MM owners have 3 great S/C kits to choose from, with a fourth on the way.

[Cobra25]

I have to agree with TMAC1337 on what he said. 380-400 HP at 7 PSI is a safe way to go . As far as the intercooler being low, well it does give the car a bad A** look, backing into a parking spot is a small price to pay to get a excellent quality product.

[maraudernkc]

I will talk to them about 91 Octane. I beleive the 91 octane SCT file backs out 3 degrees of timing over the 93 octane file.

Correct me if I am wrong. I am not a computer tuner.

Thanks, Greg


WOW! The kit looks GREAT, Greg! Love that scoop, too--I bet that scoop is very efficient. CAN'T WAIT!!!

P.S. Greg--don't forget about us in California where we can ONLY get 91-octane fuel! Hopefully, you'll have time to work with the SCT vendor on working on a good, SAFE, 91-octane tuning file for those of us who are limited to 91!

[greggash]

I like the procharfer, no oil line.

where can I get a kit

[maraudernkc]

greggash, just give me a call 913/302-5780

Thanks, Greg

We start shipping Feb. 25th.



I like the procharfer, no oil line.

where can I get a kit

[GodOSpeed]

I'd say leave er @ 9psi. That way if you see something on the road you always have a couple extra inches of ground clearance on tap. wink wink.
By the way Great Looking Kit!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Great looking setup Gregg why is the PCV tube on the intake capped off, where is the line to the PCV going, but the kit looks great, can't wait to see the finale dyno numbers. I thought the after cooler was in front of the A/C condenser, as shown here its laying flat below the condenser. I went to Miami last week and had my pipes made in Mandrill bend and they do have a better appearance and should flow more air, congratulations on a great kit.

[maraudernkc]

Dennis, the MM PCV (positive crankcase ventalation)valve is not a one way check valve like traditonal PCV valves of the past therfore it can not be hooked up to the intake manifold. It must be hooked up before the supercharger. If you leave the PCV valve hooked up to the intake manifold you will blow boost into your crankcase.Not a good thing.



Great looking setup Gregg why is the PCV tube on the intake capped off, where is the line to the PCV going, but the kit looks great, can't wait to see the finale dyno numbers. I thought the after cooler was in front of the A/C condenser, as shown here its laying flat below the condenser. I went to Miami last week and had my pipes made in Mandrill bend and they do have a better appearance and should flow more air, congratulations on a great kit.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I understand that but where is the PCV tube now connected to, the air being drawn from the crankcase in a normally aspirated car is metered air, you have the intake capped off where is the vacuum for the PCV coming from, what you can do to limit boost entering the PCV valve is add a second PCV valve that does have a check valve in it. Mac uses a kit on his car. I will send you a picture tomorrow

[Joe Walsh]

The heck with 7,8 & 9 PSI....I'd like a 10 PSI and 93 octane tune/kit!
As soon as the thrill of my new N/A forged engine wears off (yeah...RIGHT!) and I get my 'car fund' replenished, I'm going to need some BOOST!!! :banana2: :burn:

[maraudernkc]

Dennis, It is connected to the blower intake tube.

Thanks, Greg


I understand that but where is the PCV tube now connected to, the air being drawn from the crankcase in a normally aspirated car is metered air, you have the intake capped off where is the vacuum for the PCV coming from, what you can do to limit boost entering the PCV valve is add a second PCV valve that does have a check valve in it. Mac uses a kit on his car. I will send you a picture tomorrow

[427435]

Very nice looking kit----a very nice plumbing job.

Have you measured the inlet air temperature before and after the cooler? That charge air cooler does look "Boss" but I would have to give up driving my car during the winter when there's snow on the roads----how hard would it be to drop out the cooler and plumb across (above the frame) without any cooler? Shouldn't need much charge air cooling during the winter and then put the cooler back in when spring rolls around.

[Donny Carlson]

This is on a car with OEM springs? Uncut?

Granted, the clearance between the ground and the cooler is 6-1/4 inches, but how far forward of the suspension cross member is it? About the location of the air deflector? (which I assume you've removed.)

The reason I ask this is, like others who've posted, I would be EXTREMELY worried about damage to the bottom of the intercooler, not only from parking blocks, but steep driveway transitions, even some road debris. My car has Eibachs, and I recently replaced my front air deflector because it was badly bent from scraping across a few parking blocks, transitions, etc.

Looks to me like it needs a skid plate.

[Joe Walsh]

Very nice looking kit----a very nice plumbing job.

Have you measured the inlet air temperature before and after the cooler? That charge air cooler does look "Boss" but I would have to give up driving my car during the winter when there's snow on the roads----how hard would it be to drop out the cooler and plumb across (above the frame) without any cooler? Shouldn't need much charge air cooling during the winter and then put the cooler back in when spring rolls around.

I would imagine that any snow that gets in the intercooler would help to cool the compressed air even more. Plus it would melt immediately from the heat in the intercooler.

[5.0]

I would have the same problems, my car is lowered with Eibachs and I drive it in the winter. Would I be able to bypass the intercooler for the winter?

[maraudernkc]

we can mount it behind the grille for you but where it is now is by far the most effecient.


This is on a car with OEM springs? Uncut?

Granted, the clearance between the ground and the cooler is 6-1/4 inches, but how far forward of the suspension cross member is it? About the location of the air deflector? (which I assume you've removed.)

The reason I ask this is, like others who've posted, I would be EXTREMELY worried about damage to the bottom of the intercooler, not only from parking blocks, but steep driveway transitions, even some road debris. My car has Eibachs, and I recently replaced my front air deflector because it was badly bent from scraping across a few parking blocks, transitions, etc.

Looks to me like it needs a skid plate.

[maraudernkc]

I sent you a pm.

The inlet air tempature is very effecient currently running at 15 degrees above ambient.

That is why we have the Intercooler where it is. The cooler the inlet temp. the more timing you can throw at it.


Very nice looking kit----a very nice plumbing job.

Have you measured the inlet air temperature before and after the cooler? That charge air cooler does look "Boss" but I would have to give up driving my car during the winter when there's snow on the roads----how hard would it be to drop out the cooler and plumb across (above the frame) without any cooler? Shouldn't need much charge air cooling during the winter and then put the cooler back in when spring rolls around.

[maraudernkc]

Joe Walsh, snow packed into the intercooler would affect the airflow of the intercooler. Still very drivable but you would not want to run up the boost to high until the snow melted.


I would imagine that any snow that gets in the intercooler would help to cool the compressed air even more. Plus it would melt immediately from the heat in the intercooler.

[maraudernkc]

5.0, How often do you have 6 inches of snow on the road itself.

Snow will not hurt the interooler but if it is snow packed you don't want to run high boost levels.


I would have the same problems, my car is lowered with Eibachs and I drive it in the winter. Would I be able to bypass the intercooler for the winter?

[maraudernkc]

When your ready we are ready!


The heck with 7,8 & 9 PSI....I'd like a 10 PSI and 93 octane tune/kit!
As soon as the thrill of my new N/A forged engine wears off (yeah...RIGHT!) and I get my 'car fund' replenished, I'm going to need some BOOST!!! :banana2: :burn:

[maraudernkc]

Donny carlson, How low do you think a new C6 vette is? They drive them everyday?

We have removed the air deflector.

Steep transitions you can take at a angle.

Parking blocks you will have to be carful of and leave room.

I understand you concerns but that is where we decided to put the intercooler because that is where it gets the most amount of air and is most effecient.


This is on a car with OEM springs? Uncut?

Granted, the clearance between the ground and the cooler is 6-1/4 inches, but how far forward of the suspension cross member is it? About the location of the air deflector? (which I assume you've removed.)

The reason I ask this is, like others who've posted, I would be EXTREMELY worried about damage to the bottom of the intercooler, not only from parking blocks, but steep driveway transitions, even some road debris. My car has Eibachs, and I recently replaced my front air deflector because it was badly bent from scraping across a few parking blocks, transitions, etc.

Looks to me like it needs a skid plate.

[maraudernkc]

You will see one very quickly.


Very nice. If TMAC buys his, then I'll see an example close up.

[maraudernkc]

Thanks for the roid game. I used to play that everyday. Do you know where you can buy one of the machines?

Wow, that's all I can say. :burn:

[tmac1337]

I think the "parking block" scenario is a little overrated here....simply back your car in when you see a block and presto, not an issue.

As for road debris well, sometimes s*!t happens to the front of any car, hence why spare parts are in existence.

Snow packed in, I would imagine the heat from the intercooler would melt it almost instantaneously and the cooling effect would be a bonus if you could light em up in a snow storm (wishful thinking).

From what Maraudernkc has stated, that intercooler location gained him the most positive results on the kit. Performance is what matters. Plus, my opinion only, I think it looks KILLER. I have never seen another kit that looks like it. I would imagine it would attract a lot of attention at car shows if that is your thing.

[tmac1337]

How low do you think a new C6 vette is? They drive them everyday?

I understand you concerns but that is where we decided to put the intercooler because that is where it gets the most amount of air and is most effecient.

Well put! A lot of low framed sports car drivers are going to say " I think I just had my ass handed to me by "Darth Marauder!"

[Donny Carlson]

Well put! A lot of low framed sports car drivers are going to say " I think I just had my ass handed to me by "Darth Marauder!"
I guess if you know your have something valuable hangin out there, you'll be likely to be careful so it isn't crunched. Fine, fine. And I don't doubt this is a wonderful SC, and owners will love them, beat the cheese out of all comers, etc. Have fun.

I look at this from the perspective that there are going to be occasions where you misjudge clearance sometime, or just forget, or zipping down the road something gets blown in your lane in traffic, or whatever, and there's hard contact, only this time it's the intercooler smacking or scraping, not a $20 molded plastic part. Granted, there are lower cars out there, but I imagine when these cars are scraping their nose on a transition or straddling some boards that fell off the truck in front of you, that what's getting bunged up is a trim piece, air dam... not a rather important part of the engine. This is about how Donny Carlson would live with it, meaning I know that I would eventually hit something, not how somebody else who may be diligent and never screw up would.

So, for me, I'd locate it in a lesser vulnerable spot, even if it meant it was less efficient.

[maraudernkc]

Donny Carlosn, I understand and you can mount it elsewhere it just wont be as effecient.

Thanks, Greg


I guess if you know your have something valuable hangin out there, you'll be likely to be careful so it isn't crunched. Fine, fine. And I don't doubt this is a wonderful SC, and owners will love them, beat the cheese out of all comers, etc. Have fun.

I look at this from the perspective that there are going to be occasions where you misjudge clearance sometime, or just forget, or zipping down the road something gets blown in your lane in traffic, or whatever, and there's hard contact, only this time it's the intercooler smacking or scraping, not a $20 molded plastic part. Granted, there are lower cars out there, but I imagine when these cars are scraping their nose on a transition or straddling some boards that fell off the truck in front of you, that what's getting bunged up is a trim piece, air dam... not a rather important part of the engine. This is about how Donny Carlson would live with it, meaning I know that I would eventually hit something, not how somebody else who may be diligent and never screw up would.

So, for me, I'd locate it in a lesser vulnerable spot, even if it meant it was less efficient.

[ADE 1000]

Donny carlson, How low do you think a new C6 vette is? They drive them everyday?



You are right, the C6 rides low as does the C5. My current Corvette is lowered, but even in stock form it sc***** everything. The problem is you you can be careful around obvious things like parking stops and driveway entrances, but often dips in the road that don't look too bad cause the car to scrape unexpectedly. In any case, when the vette bottoms the worst that can happen is that I have to replace a $75 plastic air deflector. In this case it looks like it could be a more expensive proposition. Perhaps this is not all that much of a concern on a stock MM, but if the car was lowered it would be a different story.

Can you comment on how much the loss of efficiency would be if the intercooler was mounted behind the grille?

Note: I am not trying to bash your kit. It looks very well done and I will seriously consider it when the time comes.

[maraudernkc]

If mounted behind the grille you loose about 20RWHP which is no big deal.We just run 9 PSI instaed of 8 PSI. This blower set up will make way too much power for these stock motors.

Thanks, Greg


You are right, the C6 rides low as does the C5. My current Corvette is lowered, but even in stock form it sc***** everything. The problem is you you can be careful around obvious things like parking stops and driveway entrances, but often dips in the road that don't look too bad cause the car to scrape unexpectedly. In any case, when the vette bottoms the worst that can happen is that I have to replace a $75 plastic air deflector. In this case it looks like it could be a more expensive proposition. Perhaps this is not all that much of a concern on a stock MM, but if the car was lowered it would be a different story.

Can you comment on how much the loss of efficiency would be if the intercooler was mounted behind the grille?

Note: I am not trying to bash your kit. It looks very well done and I will seriously consider it when the time comes.

[tmac1337]

I guess if you know your have something valuable hangin out there, you'll be likely to be careful so it isn't crunched. Fine, fine. And I don't doubt this is a wonderful SC, and owners will love them, beat the cheese out of all comers, etc. Have fun.

I look at this from the perspective that there are going to be occasions where you misjudge clearance sometime, or just forget, or zipping down the road something gets blown in your lane in traffic, or whatever, and there's hard contact, only this time it's the intercooler smacking or scraping, not a $20 molded plastic part. Granted, there are lower cars out there, but I imagine when these cars are scraping their nose on a transition or straddling some boards that fell off the truck in front of you, that what's getting bunged up is a trim piece, air dam... not a rather important part of the engine. This is about how Donny Carlson would live with it, meaning I know that I would eventually hit something, not how somebody else who may be diligent and never screw up would.

So, for me, I'd locate it in a lesser vulnerable spot, even if it meant it was less efficient.

I hear that Donny. I guess I'm spoiled in FL with level roads, no potholes and such. Plus my car is a weekend warrior anyway. To me the 6-1/4" inches is only a threat to parking blocks which I can avoid. Road debris, I've only hit road debris one time in 19 years of driving so I consider myself lucky. I guess if you really want a solution it should be mounted behind the grill. The kit appears to make so much excess HP which is unsafe for a daily driver that a loss of 30 RWHP to 420 probably would be for the best anyway if it could do so with 9 psi. Ask Maraudernkc.

[427435]

I would imagine that any snow that gets in the intercooler would help to cool the compressed air even more. Plus it would melt immediately from the heat in the intercooler.

I probably wasn't too clear-----I'm not worrying about some loose snow in the cooler. I'm worried about a chunk of hard snow or ice tearing up the cooler ($$$) and then unfiltered air going into the engine until the cooler gets fixed/replaced. If the best is hanging down, one might get away with it there in the summer and then taking it off in the winter and plumbing straight across (above the frame).

When the ambient temp is under 35 degrees, you probably don't need the intercooling, anyway.

[tmac1337]

If the best is hanging down, one might get away with it there in the summer and then taking it off in the winter and plumbing straight across (above the frame).

When the ambient temp is under 35 degrees, you probably don't need the intercooling, anyway.

That sounds like it would work with little effort, just connecting a pipe. Might be a tuning issue there now if the intake temp was radically different?

[tmac1337]

;) !!!!!!!!

[maraudernkc]

Anyone that wants the option of having the Intercooler mounted behind the grille. We will make this an option and the price is the same.

Below are links to photos of the Intercooler mounted behing the grille.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48 04

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48 05

[RoyLPita]

If anyone damages the intercooler shield, how much would a new one be????

[martyo]

If anyone damages the intercooler shield, how much would a new one be????

This is probably one of the smarter questions asked yet.

[maraudernkc]

The Intercooler scoop is $70.00.


If anyone damages the intercooler shield, how much would a new one be????

[RoyLPita]

The Intercooler scoop is $70.00.

That is a good deal.
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc2.jpg

Is there a way to build a "flat funnel" type ram to force more air into the intercooler?
The front part takes up the whole underside area (have it hook up at the 1st 2 bolts) and the back is the current size. Will this help or harm performance?

What are your thoughts??

[5.0]

Intercooler mounting location option.....I like that.

[tmac1337]

If mounted behind the grille, The air intake temps go to 38 degrees above ambient. Currently it is running at about 15 degrees at the intake.

Greg, your independent testing has verified what Procharger claims from the company's testing, that it's kits will produce a intake temperature of 37 degrees above ambient.

The relocation of the intercooler from behind the grill to underneath with the scoop was a good idea, especially a good performance idea. Testing has revealed that your intake temperature is 15 degrees above ambient at full boost, much better then even the Procharger company officially claims as a result of compressing air from one of their blowers.

The placement of the intercooler below with the scoop will maximize the amount of airflow across it, cooling down the air more which then travels to the intake. Mounting it higher, closer to the engine would only serve to place it closer to the engine, resulting in heatsoak, an increase in intake temperatures. The 15 degree above ambient intake temperature proves you made the right decision.

Air to air intercooling is the most cost efficient way to maximise HP and TQ gains. Whats better, there is no moving parts = no maintenance = reliability.

Air to water intercoolers need a separate radiator to cool the water, a water tank, lines, and a pump = moving parts = increased maintenance (possibility of pump failure and leakage). Using water based intercooling results in heat soaking of the water coolant system, subsequently hot water!

An air/air kit with lower mounted intercooler was the correct choice for you to make!

[Zack]

Air to water intercoolers need a separate radiator to cool the water, a water tank, lines, and a pump = moving parts = increased maintenance (possibility of pump failure and leakage). Using water based intercooling results in heat soaking of the water coolant system, subsequently hot water! If your racing or always into it, ice is needed to equal the performance of air/air.


Yeah, whatever dude.
Wait till you're in stop and go traffic.
Please dont claim to know it all before you even have the blower installed.
And for the record, my intake temps have never been 20 degrees above ambient, even on the hottest of days.

[MI2QWK4U]

Yeah, whatever dude.
Wait till you're in stop and go traffic.
Please dont claim to know it all before you even have the blower installed.
And for the record, my intake temps have never been 20 degrees above ambient, even on the hottest of days.


Why waste your time trying to set some people straight Zack, seems like the uninformed & ignorant have the biggest mouths. The people that really know whats up understand. You have a good point, let him figure it out for himself, Lord knows it doesnt get hot in Florida!

[MikesMerc]

Holy Smokes! Dave and Zack agree on something :eek:

Let's see here...takin a note....February 13 2005, 2:30pm....

Actually, though, I'm not too surprised they agreed on this point. When it comes to inter cooler choices, just a quick poll of those who have plenty of SC experience yields the same conclusion.

[sailsmen]

There is a reason why in a properly water intercooled system the water will generally not exceed a certain number of degrees above ambient. It has to do with the efficiency of water as a coolant. It's not necessarily the water that gets heat soaked, but the metal parts of the system.

Much like freon dropping the ambient air temp by X number of degrees.

As Zack has pointed out what's important is the AIT.

There are benefits to an air to air intercooler. The kit looks like an awesome system! Another excellent option for us MM owners! :D

We are blessed to have so many excellent options for a car that is no longer in production.

[tmac1337]

Yeah, whatever dude.
Wait till you're in stop and go traffic.
Please dont claim to know it all before you even have the blower installed.
And for the record, my intake temps have never been 20 degrees above ambient, even on the hottest of days.

Your point is well made Zack, although I'm not sure exactly how hot it does get in Illinois. I was just expressing some facts, sorry to step on anyone's toes. Congratulations on the 20 degree intake temp, very nice. I'll report factually how the car is doing soon in very hot florida.

[tmac1337]

Why waste your time trying to set some people straight Zack, seems like the uninformed & ignorant have the biggest mouths. The people that really know whats up understand. You have a good point, let him figure it out for himself, Lord knows it doesnt get hot in Florida!

Your right, if I dont purchase your mod I must be unimformed and ignorant. I promise I will try to improve myself in the future. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[MI2QWK4U]

Your right, if I dont purchase your mod I must be unimformed and ignorant. I promise I will try to improve myself in the future. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Like I said...the biggest mouths. By the way, I dont have any mods for purchase, and I didnt mention anyones product. I think from your post you dont know much about supercharger intercooling systems, because your description of the water to air cooling sytem was ridiculous. Usually I just chuckle when I read a stupid statement or post, but I had to rise to your pile of steaming crap you try to shovel.

[tmac1337]

It's good to see you promote character assassination when you dislike the facts. I however could care less.

Factual statement: Procharger kit produces 15 degrees above ambient temperature tested at intake (engine motor intake, nowhere else) at 9 psi, full boost, not at idle, using a pyrometer. Pyrometer is hooked into intake next to external air intake sensor. After boost, the intake temperature went back to ambient within 3-5 seconds.

Have the other kits been tested in the same manner? What are your results? Where did you test your intake temps, by the filter? Lets deal with the facts.

[MI2QWK4U]

It's good to see you promote character assassination when you dislike the facts. I however could care less.

Factual question: Procharger kit made 15 degrees above ambient temperature tested at intake at 9 psi, full boost, not at idle, using a pyrometer. After boost, the intake temperature went back to ambient within 3 seconds.

Have the other kits been tested in the same manner? What are your results? Lets deal with the facts.

Well, I cant speak for other kits, but I did extensive testing on my setup, including additional autometer senors & gauges to monitor air intake temps, coolant temps for the inlet side of the intercooler, coolant temps on the outlet side of the intercooler, and ambient air temps. This went into setting up a CO chilling system that chilled the coolant and heated metal componants, which was very successfull in decreasing the air intake temp dramatically. If you did your homework and research instead of running your mouth about setups you know nothing about, you might learn something on here. So what is your next smart azzed comment? Quit while you are ahead.

[tmac1337]

Well, I cant speak for other kits, but I did extensive testing on my setup, including additional autometer senors & gauges to monitor air intake temps, coolant temps for the inlet side of the intercooler, coolant temps on the outlet side of the intercooler, and ambient air temps. This went into setting up a CO chilling system that chilled the coolant and heated metal componants, which was very successfull in decreasing the air intake temp dramatically. If you did your homework and research instead of running your mouth about setups you know nothing about, you might learn something on here. So what is your next smart azzed comment? Quit while you are ahead.

I still will not stoop to your level here with character remarks. Lets stick to the facts. How many degrees above ambient is your intake temp. at the moter at full boost before you additionally chilled your system above and beyond your intercooler?

How much was this chill modification you needed?

Still have not answered!

[Cobra25]

Well, I cant speak for other kits, but I did extensive testing on my setup, including additional autometer senors & gauges to monitor air intake temps, coolant temps for the inlet side of the intercooler, coolant temps on the outlet side of the intercooler, and ambient air temps. This went into setting up a CO chilling system that chilled the coolant and heated metal componants, which was very successfull in decreasing the air intake temp dramatically. If you did your homework and research instead of running your mouth about setups you know nothing about, you might learn something on here. So what is your next smart azzed comment? Quit while you are ahead. I've been reading some of your remarks & TMAC's and TMAC is right about one thing I must say your Character Remarks are out of line. TMAC isn't a expert but neither are you. WE are all learning about this car as we go along. If you wish to debate the difference's about the S/C thats fine , but be a man about it and stop attacking the man or making Character Remarks ,he's not doing it to you. Your Character remarks is exactly what we he don't need to hear, so keep them to your self.

[Captain Steve]

Does this mean we've graduated from supercharger wars to intercooler wars? :duel:

Seriously, separate your opinions from your facts. Facts are good. Opinions are like .. er .. private parts, everyone has them, but you're better off only sharing with your friends.:banana:

[Smokie]

I don't know a damn thing about intercoolers, but I think I know a bit about treating a difference of opinion without getting angry and insulting, why not give your best advise without getting personal. I would be dishonest if I was to say I like every member here equally, but I interact with everyone in a respectful manner.....keep it about the car we all love...not the person.

[STLR FN]

Gotta question. Can you move the Intercooler and scoop to the opening above the air dam but below the bumper and still achieve the same results?

<img src="http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc2.jpg" border="0" alt="" />

[MI2QWK4U]

I still will not stoop to your level here with character remarks. Lets stick to the facts. How many degrees above ambient is your intake temp. at the moter at full boost before you additionally chilled your system above and beyond your intercooler?

How much was this chill modification you needed?

Still have not answered!


Ok, the facts then. This isnt about a coolant chiller, its about water vs air intercooling. My setup was equipped with a water intercooler. It is very efficient as set up. It yielded numbers that indicated that the intake temps were 12 to 15 degrees warmer than ambiant temps. The coolant temps were measured, the coolant flowing right out of the intercooler was cooled by the water radiator and monitored before entering the intercooler again. The stock kit yielded impressive results, the difference in outlet coolant and inlet coolant was around 20 degrees. Any other questions that I might answer for you TMAC? I hope this helps you in some small way.

[MENINBLK]

I would imagine that any snow that gets in the intercooler would help to cool the compressed air even more. Plus it would melt immediately from the heat in the intercooler.

But what about the ROCK SALT and SAND ???
What effect is this going to have on the intercooler ???

[maraudernkc]

STLR FN, We can put the intercooler behind the grille and the car will run awesome. You can have your option of where you want the Intercooler.


Gotta question. Can you move the Intercooler and scoop to the opening above the air dam but below the bumper and still achieve the same results?

<img src="http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2622mmpc2.jpg" border="0" alt="" />

[tmac1337]

Ok, the facts then. This isnt about a coolant chiller, its about water vs air intercooling. My setup was equipped with a water intercooler. It is very efficient as set up. It yielded numbers that indicated that the intake temps were 12 to 15 degrees warmer than ambiant temps. The coolant temps were measured, the coolant flowing right out of the intercooler was cooled by the water radiator and monitored before entering the intercooler again. The stock kit yielded impressive results, the difference in outlet coolant and inlet coolant was around 20 degrees. Any other questions that I might answer for you TMAC? I hope this helps you in some small way.

Actually I do have more questions, thanks for giving me the opportunity to ask.

Was your 20 degree above ambient temperature at engine intake at full boost or at idle?

After running the car, does your coolant temperature always stay 20 degrees above ambient at engine intake, or does it return to AMBIENT during normal driving out of boost. If so how long does it take to return to ambient after boost?

The Procharger Kit intake temperature returns to ambient 3-5 seconds after boost, thats why I ask. Most blown cars operate at normal driving 95% of the time, 5% into boost for a max of 20 seconds at a stretch. If you can accellerate over 20 seconds your going way too fast.

I see from your signature list you are running 13.5 psi to achieve 460 HP.

Do you think your setup is more efficient than the procharger kit that achieved 455 hp at 9 psi, with air/air intercooler, no chill modification necessary?

Thanks for providing some factual comparison data that members are interested in.

[tmac1337]

:snoopy: Still waiting.........

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

:uzi: :snoopy:...................... .............:rofl:

[tmac1337]

:dunno:

I see from your signature list you are running 13.5 psi to achieve 460 HP.

Do you think your setup is more efficient than the procharger kit that achieved 455 hp at 9 psi, with air/air intercooler, no chill modification necessary?

:snoopy: And still waiting.......

I guess the answer is in the question!

CO2 Cryogenics

[MI2QWK4U]

:dunno:

I see from your signature list you are running 13.5 psi to achieve 460 HP.
-Yes, actually its up quite a bit from 460 RWHP now, thanks to the KOOKS headers, a must for any SC Marauder, but its at 13.5 psi.

Do you think your setup is more efficient than the procharger kit that achieved 455 hp at 9 psi, with air/air intercooler, no chill modification necessary?
-Yes, absolutely. And the chill modification was an experiment, not a necessity.

:snoopy: And still waiting.......
-And you will still be waiting when you act the way you do and treat people with different opinions than you.

I guess the answer is in the question!
-Pretty witty...did you think of that yourself or pick it up from a soap opera? My question to you is this, where is your supercharger? I cant believe you werent the first Procharger Kit customer. I believe in my setup enough that I was the first one to get one. Think what you may, but right now im sitting on a 12.01 second Marauder. With the recent addition of the Kooks headers, it will easily slid into hi 11's without any cooling mod, which makes it only the third Marauder to do so. So I must have done something right. So pick your kit of choice, get it installed, tuned and enjoy it. When you run a faster time than mine, then we will talk about it some more. Oh, by the way, sorry it took me a while to get back, I noticed your impatient posts about still waiting, unfortunately, I have a job and family and cant live online to answer questions for people that really dont care about the response, only in what they can tear it apart for. If you honetly have some serious questions, great, if you are wasting my time, you can get bent.


Hope that answers your questions.

[tmac1337]

Thanks for the reply. And no, it was not my conduct that was in question.

And no, I did not mimic gun violence against any other member of this board, as was displayed against me, which I find to be morally and ethically reprehensible.

Yes, I have purchased a S/C, which I will have running in the next few weeks.

And yes, I did have enough faith in it after doing a considerable amount of research to purchase it, but due to other orders and it being one of the first I have to wait in line.

Yes, it is a Procharger.

And as for being impatient for an answer, I see you posted at other times on this forum hours before answering some factual comparison questions I asked.

But I do thank you for answering some of the questions. They were serious questions.

I look forward to having some factual discussions in the future.

Just out of curiousity, which CO2 intake cooler kit did you purchase, so that I might be more informed I would like to take a look at it's internet page?

[tmac1337]

:uzi: :snoopy:...................... .............:rofl:

Using the characters to express a point is one thing, using them to suggest gun violence against another for simple asking some factual questions is a new time low. You win, I give up!

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

:stupid: Don't worry, Snoopy was not seriously injured in the shooting.
If you don't like my use of smilies complain to a moderator, they put them there for us to use!

:uzi: :woohoo:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

No response ?????? I'm waiting....................

[Bradley G]

Some people are very afraid of the unknown,Behavior is as behavior does !

Thanks for the info Fellas!

Interesting how this plays out More Facts and discussion... or,...:banned:
Can we all :hug2: We are all Gods children,
Some "Children" can go a little Faster than others;)
Bradley G

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

We are all Gods children,
Some "Children" can go a little Faster than others;)
Bradley G

You should speak for yourself. I don't believe in a god and I'm sure others here don't !!!!!!!

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Damn, haven't heard from tmac yet. I hope he didn't get hit by a stray smilie bullet. :P

[Dennis Reinhart]

I thought this thread was about PROCHARGER, I think the kit looks great why is it when any one comes up with something different we have have these debates as to which kit is the best. Thats for the buyer to decide.

[Joe Walsh]

I thought this thread was about PROCHARGER, I think the kit looks great why is it when any one comes up with something different we have have these debates as to which kit is the best. Thats for the buyer to decide.

So did I.....The thread's title is "Procharger Kit Photos"
NOT: "Intercooler Wars"

[Cobra25]

I thought this thread was about PROCHARGER, I think the kit looks great why is it when any one comes up with something different we have have these debates as to which kit is the best. Thats for the buyer to decide. Dennis hit the nail on the head.

[valleyman]

What he ^^^^said.

[Tallboy]

Yes, I have purchased a S/C, which I will have running in the next few weeks.


Yes, it is a Procharger.

I thought you said in another thread you didn't get the first Procharger kit [other than Greg's], are there more than one out there already? If so, that's great!:banana:

[Bradley G]

Are the intake temps substantially different under full boost with air to Water?
Does the Procharger kit have an advantage due to AIT?How does this play out in real life?
Bradley G

[maraudernkc]

Brdley G, All I will say is what I know about my kit. Our air intake temapture measured at the the intake of the motor under 9 pounds of boost is 15 degrees above ambient. If driving normal, not into the boost the air intake tempature is ambient. The cooler the air going into your motor the more timming you can run which = HORSEPOWER. I feel the most important tempature is the one measured going into the motor.

Greg


Are the intake temps substantially different under full boost with air to Water?
Does the Procharger kit have an advantage due to AIT?How does this play out in real life?
Bradley G

[Bradley G]

Will these numbers be real in extreme conditions?I thought I remember reading, Zack, was no worse than 20* above ambient, at the motor.Doesn't sound like the spread between systems differ much.Would 5*cooler allow you to Run more timing?Thanks for the reply

Brdley G


Brdley G, All I will say is what I know about my kit. Our air intake temapture measured at the the intake of the motor under 9 pounds of boost is 15 degrees above ambient. If driving normal, not into the boost the air intake tempature is ambient. The cooler the air going into your motor the more timming you can run which = HORSEPOWER. I feel the most important tempature is the one measured going into the motor.

Greg

[maraudernkc]

Bradley G, Yes these numbers are real in extreme conditions. I don't know if Zack is measuring at the intake running 9 to 10 PSI measured under full boost. We used a Pyromoter to measure our tempatures. This is a very accuracte instrument. 5 Dgrees might get you one degree more timing.


Will these numbers be real in extreme conditions?I thought I remember reading, Zack, was no worse than 20* above ambient, at the motor.Doesn't sound like the spread between systems differ much.Would 5*cooler allow you to Run more timing?Thanks for the reply

Brdley G

[stevengerard]

The Buick GN's added a mechanical fan to help with the cooling, maybe if necessary you could always add an electric fan, though it sounds like it doesn't need it, I've heard lots of good things about ProCharger on the street.

[maraudernkc]

Procharger has not had any problems with any of the mustangs running hot at all and we have that big a** grille to help cool our MM.


The Buick GN's added a mechanical fan to help with the cooling, maybe if necessary you could always add an electric fan, though it sounds like it doesn't need it, I've heard lots of good things about ProCharger on the street.

[maraudernkc]

I had to answer this one.

I don't know what Tmac's car is going to run but if 11's are the game count me in. I will be there in Detroit.

Sounds like an old fashion shootout.

Look forward to meeting all of you and throwing back a couple of cold ones.


Greg

ps.There will be no NOS for this guy!




Think what you may, but right now im sitting on a 12.01 second Marauder. With the recent addition of the Kooks headers, it will easily slid into hi 11's without any cooling mod, which makes it only the third Marauder to do so. So I must have done something right. So pick your kit of choice, get it installed, tuned and enjoy it. When you run a faster time than mine, then we will talk about it some more.






[/B]

Hope that answers your questions.

[tmac1337]

A box just came two day air Fedex. A very large box. Six foot. The size of a coffin. I looked inside. I found................. a monster! :eek:

[merc]

A box just came two day air Fedex. A very large box. Six foot. The size of a coffin. I looked inside. I found................. a monster! :eek:

Pictures please, I love a good scary movie :popcorn:

[shakes_26]

Ah yes, I can hear the shrieks of your tires already :D

Tim, what is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you in battle and hear the lamentation of their women.:woohoo:

[marauderboi]

How much are procharger kits:confused:

[tmac1337]

Tim, what is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you in battle and hear the lamentation of their women.:woohoo:

Yes......yes.......yes! One of my favorite movies!

[Cobra25]

How much are procharger kits:confused: AS of today: ProCharger Kit $4995.00-- Vorteck $5895.00 -- Trilogy $5995.00 cost of Kit's.

[tmac1337]

AS of today: ProCharger Kit $4995.00-- Vorteck $5895.00 -- Trilogy $5995.00 cost of Kit's.

Close....

Procharger Kit $4950.00 (every $45.00 counts Z!)

No Core Charges

$100.00 2 Business Day Air Fedex Shipping direct from Procharger Factory.

Install Time: 6 hours

Install Cost $400-500.00 depending on mechanic.

User friendly instruction manual w/ photos (for the do it yourself wrenchers).

[merc]

:bump: Any new news, pictures, installs and updates.

[maraudernkc]

Merc, you should have a install update and reveiw by Friday.


:bump: Any new news, pictures, installs and updates.

[merc]

Merc, you should have a install update and reveiw by Friday.

Friday has passed. :drool:

[Cartman]

I sent several specific questions via a PM about the kit on the 21st but never heard a response. I'd like to find out more about it.

[tmac1337]

I have just installed the kit on my car and another one is being installed near me within the week. Let me verify what the kit is doing in the next few days and I will give you a full review soon. I have one dyno run on my car so far and it made 436 RWHP and 425 TQ at 8 PSI (using a larger pulley than Maraudernkc used making less PSI). The fit and finish is excellent. Almost everything is fabricated at Procharger and it is shipped 2 day air from their loading dock.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Glad to see you've recovered from the smilie bullets. :D :rofl:

[maraudernkc]

Cartman, PM sent. Sorry for the delay.


I sent several specific questions via a PM about the kit on the 21st but never heard a response. I'd like to find out more about it.