Brake Torque-ing

[mmmmmmarauder]

I just got some advice from someone here
I totally respect...

I was wondering how many of the members here
practice so-called "brake torque-ing" (the application
of the brake and accelerator while releasing the brake
at 3000 RPMs) upon vehicle launch.

It is my personal opinion that this is an anathema to
good car care and down-right abusive to critical components.
This is just a gut feeling, and I have been accused of babying
vehicles. Moreover, I was hoping my extensive list of MODs
would not require brake torque-ing to have a decent 0-30 mph
move off the stoplight.

This reminds me of the FoMoCo blatant false advertising in the
calendar they sent me (you know the one...the old Marauders
parked side-by-side...the James Dean wannabes watching the
totally stock Marauder SMOKING those tires).

By the way, don't ask WHO sold and installed the MODs or
who gave me the brake torque advice. I was recently just
seeking info and was accused of slandering the reputation of
a vendor here.


Peter
greekchicago@hotmail.com

:stooges:


P.S. I did actually call Lincoln Mercury and ask how they got the
stock tires to smoke in the calendar...they said something
about brake torque-ing
and I seem to remember them saying something about bleach (?)
I am totally serious about this...

[sailsmen]

I run it up to 1,500RPM to 1,800 RPM depending on track conditions. On the street just hammering it from idle, even with KDW-2, I just spin the tires.

Look at my sig for my 60' and 0-60 times.

Other MM's that have the mods I have run as low as 13.5's in cool/dry air.

These times are equal/better than most stock C-4 Corvettes.

[BillyGman]

I don't brake torque my car at the track for the launch, and I usually didn't even when it was in the 13 second bracket which was before I supercharged it. Although, in light of what someone on here once said about it being more shock to the drivetrain allowing parts to slap together if you don't take of the the driveline slop or play by brake torqing alittle bit (1100-1200 RPM) I think it might be a good idea and less abusive to your car to brake torque a little but at the starting line. But as far as 3,000 RPM, I think that your tires would be spinning before 3,000 RPM, so that would likely be too high.

[mmmmmmarauder]

you guys are always helpful...

Much of this was in response to my now infamous
"Going KOOK-y" post...

Funny, Sailsmen, I have almost exactly the same MODs
as you and have never smelt (?) the liquification of rubber
or any of the corresponding pavement soundings...

A respected member here said that perhaps my INDY dynotune
didn't take into account the fact I had a LEVEL II trans kit installed.
(they were supposed to shut off that portion of the EEC?)


Nevertheless I continue my search for the elusive break of traction.
All I really ever wanted was to feel a little pull in my seat and
respectfully pass the ricer to my right off the stoplight in the 0-30
mph range... (a noble cause no doubt)


P.S. Where's the "Big Easy"?


Peter

greekchicago@hotmail.com

[BillyGman]

P.S. Where's the "Big Easy"?


Peter

greekchicago@hotmail.comAlthou gh I've heard that term used before, I've often wondered where it was also.....my guess is somewhere in the mid-west

[jspradii]

The "Big Easy" is New Orleans, for all you Yankees. NHRA is going to have a big event at 'Belle Rose"("Big Rose") this spring, at the "No Problem Raceway". "Baton Rouge" is nothing more than "Red Stick", and "Grosse Tete" is nothing more than "Big Head". Now that you all have had your cajun lesson, let us move on to other things.


Jim

[Bradley G]

I don't make a habit out of it,Like BGM said if you preload the RPM's to 3000 you will be spinning big time!If you want big time spin get a line lock to disable the rear brakes.
What are your mods?It appears a big grocery list of Mods still won't compete with a little Huff or a puff.Wether it be a push-me pull-you type setup.
Don't like the bleach idea?:bs: ( good thing Ford did not hire BillyGman for the driver;" He don't use no stinkin bleach"!)
I have the promo cd where they show several burnouts.The surface they were driving on looks like very slick stuff( polished concrete)?Yeah good ole Ford!, play'in straight!:rolleyes:
Who's givin the burnout lessons? and where did you get your mods?:burnout: :bigcry:
Bradley G

I just got some advice from someone here
I totally respect...

I was wondering how many of the members here
practice so-called "brake torque-ing" (the application
of the brake and accelerator while releasing the brake
at 3000 RPMs) upon vehicle launch.

It is my personal opinion that this is an anathema to
good car care and down-right abusive to critical components.
This is just a gut feeling, and I have been accused of babying
vehicles. Moreover, I was hoping my extensive list of MODs
would not require brake torque-ing to have a decent 0-30 mph
move off the stoplight.

This reminds me of the FoMoCo blatant false advertising in the
calendar they sent me (you know the one...the old Marauders
parked side-by-side...the James Dean wannabes watching the
totally stock Marauder SMOKING those tires).

By the way, don't ask WHO sold and installed the MODs or
who gave me the brake torque advice. I was recently just
seeking info and was accused of slandering the reputation of
a vendor here.


Peter
greekchicago@hotmail.com

:stooges:


P.S. I did actually call Lincoln Mercury and ask how they got the
stock tires to smoke in the calendar...they said something
about brake torque-ing
and I seem to remember them saying something about bleach (?)
I am totally serious about this...

[sailsmen]

The "Big Easy" is New Orleans.

I really think your car is broken. One member recently had the Level II Trans Kit installed and was getting low HP because the 3rd gear clutch was dragging.

I suggest you take your car to Lidio, I am sure he can fix it. Please report back after Lidio examines the car.

With the mods I have the OEM's tires would totally smoke on the street any time the temp/humidity was below 90*/90%. :banana:

[MM03MOK]

"Home to 1.2 million people today, New Orleans has several nicknames. All, though, emphasize the city’s uncanny ability to show people, residents and visitors alike a rousing good time. No wonder it’s known as “The Big Easy” and “The City That Care Forgot.” Its motto truly is, “Let the Good Times Roll!” "

[jspradii]

I was wondering how many of the members here
practice so-called "brake torque-ing" (the application
of the brake and accelerator while releasing the brake
at 3000 RPMs) upon vehicle launch.

This is a technique that should be used ONLY when the exact control of launch is essential. Your average street challenge does not require you to do this. I have a 3000 stall converter (among other things) and a PA transbrake that allows me to rev my car to 3000 rpm before I launch it. Now, in stock trim, the stock converter will let you do that to about 1800-2000rpm while holding the foot brake. My experience is that, since the front brakes supply over 70% of the stopping power, doing a decent burnout by overriding your back brakes won't kill you, unless you insist on doing it all the time. In that case, upgraded brakes are in order, or a brake system which disables the rear brakes during burnouts, should be installed Hurst has such a system.

Jim

[BillyGman]

yep, with a 3,000 RPM stall speed, my car will begin spinning the tires as soon as I hit 2,200 RPM's during a brake torque, however that's on the street w/out the VHT traction compound that the track has. However, I also doubt that you'll be able to reach 3,000 RPM's during a brake torque w/out breaking them loose even at the track.


The thing about doing burnouts with the brake torque method, is that your ABS can begin to kick in after awhile, in an effort to let up on the front brakes since it senses the back wheels turning, and the front wheels locked up. so it can "think" that the front wheels are skidding. the back brakes can also heat up a lot. I mean that the back brake rotors can overheat. but either one of those scenarios probably wouldn't be a concern for you unless you go really ape with a burnout like I have at times.

...and yes Brad, I hate the thought of anyone using any artificaial means of smoke production during the burnout process!!!! I remember that my brother and I used to do those things when we were 15 years old w/my Dad's car. but we were only 15, and his car was only a 6 cylinder Pontiac tempest station wagon that often ran on 5 cylinders. :D

[David Morton]

The "Big Easy" is New Orleans, for all you Yankees. JimDang Jim, why you gotta let on so specific? I was gonna say something like, "You have to go to New Orleans during Mardi Gras, go down Bourbon Street to one of those "houses" thats givin out beads with your wife or girlfriend and...."

We sometimes forget when those yankees express ignorance of something southern, it's an invitation to have some fun. Hell, they'd do it to us in a heartbeat if we were to go to New York for instance and, say, ask somebody, "Hey Y'all. Whar's Graint's Tomb?" Of course, holding a shopping bag full of cans of different colored spray paint is probably not conducive to disguising your true intentions.

I've been to the best transmission and ABS schools General Motors has to offer and I can offer this up as my best advice concerning "stalling" the convertor, eg. sitting still with the brakes on and stepping on the gas at the same time.

The torque convertor is made to handle 100,000+ miles of such abuse on intermittent applications of the accelerator from a stop. This cannot damage a convertor that is funtioning properly, per se, that is to say stalling it won't tear up the convertor seal, bearings or stator clutch unless you overheat the convertor by doing something nutty like stalling it for a long period of time. Stalling heats up the fluid very fast. You can quickly overheat already hot fluid stalling the convertor and cause major damage to the transmission as well.

As far as the ABS is concerned, the theory that the computer is gonna start letting off the fronts because it sees the rears going with the brakes applied seems plausible, but I've got two videos of BillyGman wearing out two rear tires after he got his Trilogy installed and his front brakes seemed to be holding firm, so I suspect the ABS computer is also looking at the throttle position sensor and if TPS is saying "Hey, we're trying to move here!" then the ABS computer must be saying, "Grandmaw's driving again. I bet the left turn signal is still on too!" :D

[BillyGman]

Back in December, me and John (aka "Jet") met at Atco,NJ where we also went head-to-head in two intense heads-up quartermile races that were the closest races I've ever been in (one of them resulting in a mere 56 thousandths of a second difference in ET's, and the other resulting in a tenth of a second difference). But John was the clear winner although I ran the best ET during the day that was in one of the races that I got into w/another car.


Anyway, after the raceday was over, and the track was closed, John and I went berserk doing brake torque burnouts in the dragstrip parking lot. I totally wasted my Nitto drag radials doing that, and regretted doing so after it was all over. But that day was the second time that I noticed my front brakes failing to hold the car back, and on one burnout that I did, the passenger side brake held the car a little better than the driver's side did, and because of that, the car swung right around in slow motion in a type of half dougnut burnout.

I thought it might have been my front brakes showing signs of wear, but after installing the line-Lock in my car, and never experiencing that again during a burnout, I have to conclude that it was the ABS coming into play although I didn't feel the typical pulsations of the brake pedal that are usually felt when the ABS kicks in during a stop on wet roads.

[CRUZTAKER]

I agree with everyone's posts as well.

The only time I load the car is at the track. 1700 rpm's every time. The wheels don't break loose, and there is but a slight lift in the rear. I discovered my best 60' times were achieved in this fashion.

As far as warming tires, I use my line loc exclusively.

I remember talk about the video/poster of the marauder smoking the tires in the advertisement. It took them some time to get it right, and word was they used bleach.
But if everyone thinks back to the first week we owned our car, I sure remember the embarrassment of having several kids ask me to do a burnout, and no matter how hard I brake torqued, it wouldn't spin if its life depended on it. I don't disparage ford for using alternate means to get the 'sweet picure', but more so misinforming the public that this car (new off the lot), was actually capable of a burnout in ANY fashion.

:D ;)

[jjaguda]

"Home to 1.2 million people today, New Orleans has several nicknames. All, though, emphasize the city’s uncanny ability to show people, residents and visitors alike a rousing good time. No wonder it’s known as “The Big Easy” and “The City That Care Forgot.” Its motto truly is, “Let the Good Times Roll!” "
“Let the Good Times Roll!” from the French -> Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler.

[Zack]

It is my personal opinion that this is an anathema to
good car care and down-right abusive to critical components.
This is just a gut feeling, and I have been accused of babying
vehicles. Moreover, I was hoping my extensive list of MODs
would not require brake torque-ing to have a decent 0-30 mph
move off the stoplight.


This is the stupidest thing Ive ever heard.
Who on earth would pour money into their car for performance reasons and not CRAVE doing burnouts?
What is your deal?

[BillyGman]

This is the stupidest thing Ive ever heard.
Who on earth would pour money into their car for performance reasons and not CRAVE doing burnouts?
What is your deal?LOL.....Woe Zack........I LUV doing burnouts just as you do, and I don't understand people who don't, but you're being a little hard on the guy, no? U must have taken your mean pills today. :D I think what it really has to do with is that not everyone who drives a Marauder has a long history of driving hi-perf cars, and getting into using all of the power that they have to offer like you and I and a number of others here do.

[Bradley G]

Maybe if Zack were to take Peter for a spin in Zacks' Marauder, Peter may see things a little differently?

Come on we are windy city guys', no room for the negative banter. When is the next outing?
Bradley G

[mmmmmmarauder]

who said I don't like BURNOUTS?

(actually too bad one vendor here never achieved any for me)


But, if you read the post, I was looking to have respectable
acceleration (i.e., velocity commensurate to the looks), especially
from 0-30 mph AND I thought that standing on the brake and the
accelerator were not the ideal or recommended way of doing so...


Am I right or wrong?


P.S. If I wanted to brake torque, I could have done so on the stock model
I wanted real power...others, normally aspirated here, seem to have no
trouble achieving rubber burning performance...


P.S. II If you need a list of my MODs...go to the infamous and recent
"Going KOOK-y" posting or email me at...


Peter
greekchicago@hotmail.com:puke:

[MM03MOK]

Please refer to the statements made in the thread below.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=219875#post21 9875

See you next week, Peter. The vendor has nothing to do with your issues.