Water coolers and Methanol - do they work?

[Directedby]

Anybody try Water coolers with or without Methanol?

Here are a couple of places...

http://www.coolingmist.com/Pagedisplay.aspx?key=na

http://www.snowperformance.net/

HP gains are pretty impressive for $250-$300.

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/437dyno_gas-med.jpeg

[Warpath]

Those are only necessary IMO if you are fighting detonation or using a lot of boost.

[FordNut]

It is most helpful with blown applications. It does work but only if the setup is adjusted to take advantage of it. It allows higher boost levels and more timing than ordinarily would be possible. It can help a little with N/A applications by allowing more timing but gains are not as dramatic as with blown cars. A side benefit is that the inside of the engine will be nice and clean, carbon deposits will be dissolved and burned off.

[MarauderMark]

It is most helpful with blown applications. It does work but only if the setup is adjusted to take advantage of it. It allows higher boost levels and more timing than ordinarily would be possible. It can help a little with N/A applications by allowing more timing but gains are not as dramatic as with blown cars. A side benefit is that the inside of the engine will be nice and clean, carbon deposits will be dissolved and burned off.


This is what i was told by someone on here..But when i asked someone else about it he said it wasn't really nessessary to have and he doesn't really like it..So this would be something good for my car and is it a must have for blown cars?Also was told it can be hooked to the windsheild washer bottle , is this true too?

[Directedby]

They have an additive called NITRO which they claim will give you 30-50 HP when injected.

This is for an N/A car...


http://www.snowperformance.net/proddetail.asp?prod=Auto120

Have you ever had a big race and wanted just 50 more HP? Now you can with NitroBooster – “ chemical supercharging”. NitroBooster is designed to safely increase the horsepower of your Boost Cooler by 30-50HP. It contains just the right amount of nitro methane to increase HP while not creating a lean condition. Benefits include:
1. Safely gives you an instant 30-50 HP.
2. Boosts octane characteristics.
3. Lowers engine combustion temps.

NitroBooster FAQ

1. Why nitro methane? Nitro methane donates oxygen as it is combusted – think of it as “ chemical supercharging”. It has excellent burn characteristics in that it acts as an octane enhancer with most fuels.
2. Why not just add to the fuel tank? Nitro methane is corrosive and needs system parts made from stainless steel, viton etc. adding to a fuel system made out of steel, rubber etc will corrode these parts.
3. Will it mix with water? Methanol? NitroBooster is made to mix well and stay in suspension with water and methanol.
4. What power increase can I expect? A 30-50 HP increase has been consistently demonstrated when used as directed.
5. Is it safe for my engine? NitroBooster is safe when used as directed. Of course, if the amount is increased by putting more than 8 oz per 2-qt reservoir, a lean condition will result. NitroBooster increases the octane of fuel and will reduce the chance of detonation but will cause a lean condition if you use more than directed.

[Directedby]

This is what i was told by someone on here..But when i asked someone else about it he said it wasn't really nessessary to have and he doesn't really like it..So this would be something good for my car and is it a must have for blown cars?Also was told it can be hooked to the windsheild washer bottle , is this true too?

I hear that the windshield washer bottles do not have a strong enough motor/pump to properly inject into intake.

[FordNut]

This is what i was told by someone on here..But when i asked someone else about it he said it wasn't really nessessary to have and he doesn't really like it..So this would be something good for my car and is it a must have for blown cars?Also was told it can be hooked to the windsheild washer bottle , is this true too?
Some 'stangers and lots of ricers swear by it. Lots of people dislike it. It's not necessary. Sometimes people use the water injection in place of an intercooler but since all the MM kits have intercoolers it's not really necessary. As far as I know none of us have tried it yet. I have a kit but have not yet installed it. It can be hooked to a windshield washer bottle and some people even use washer fluid since it is mostly a water/methanol mixture anyway. A neat idea is to use a CV or GM washer tank and hook up the low fluid level sensor either as a warning or a safety interlock.

[FordNut]

I hear that the windshield washer bottles do not have a strong enough motor/pump to properly inject into intake.
Using the bottle as a reservoir is ok but the pump is for sure not strong enough.

[Joe Walsh]

The performance gains only come from the ability to run more boost and more timing. Injecting water cools the intake charge, but also kills the combustion process, like a fireman hosing down a fire.
Using Methanol/Water mix cools the intake charge even more plus the methanol burns during the combustion process.
If you just run the injection system without a more aggressive tune/more boost, then you are not gaining anything except a little insurance against detonation.

[martyo]

Using the bottle as a reservoir is ok but the pump is for sure not strong enough.

Read the recent issues of 5.0 magazine. They had good results from using one of these systems on a boosted application.If I recall correctly, the system works with a venturi effect to get the injection done.

[FordNut]

Read the recent issues of 5.0 magazine. They had good results from using one of these systems on a boosted application.If I recall correctly, the system works with a venturi effect to get the injection done.
If it uses a venturi effect it was either a N/A application or it was before the impeller, which provides minimal benefit. Maximum benefit is after the blower so it can cool the compressed air by evaporation of the fine mist. Since it is on the discharge side the pressure is too high to inject without a fairly strong pump.

[martyo]

If so it was either a N/A application or it was before the impeller, which provides minimal benefit. Maximum benefit is after the blower so it can cool the compressed air by evaporation of the fine mist. Since it is on the discharge side the pressure is too high to inject without a fairly strong pump.

Geez Brian, you are going to make me go dig up the magazine aren't you...Damn engineer types {hrumph...}

[Tallboy]

Geez Brian, you are going to make me go dig up the magazine aren't you...Damn engineer types {hrumph...}[Begin Mel Brooks voice]

"I didn't get a "harumph" out of that guy"...

[End Mel Brooks voice]

[FordNut]

Geez Brian, you are going to make me go dig up the magazine aren't you...Damn engineer types {hrumph...}
Being one of them lawyer types you should know ya gotta cite the page, article, issue, etc...

No kidding, I have been working on a slick water injection system for several months and have done lots of research with Snow Performance and Aquamist. Both vendors have discussion forums with lots of good information. My system is a hybrid of those two manufacturers in addition to some home-brewed ideas.

[martyo]

Being one of them lawyer types you should know ya gotta cite the page, article, issue, etc...

5.0 Mustang & Super Fords, April 2005, Page 99.

[Joe Walsh]

If it uses a venturi effect it was either a N/A application or it was before the impeller, which provides minimal benefit. Maximum benefit is after the blower so it can cool the compressed air by evaporation of the fine mist. Since it is on the discharge side the pressure is too high to inject without a fairly strong pump.


I made up a crude Methanol injection system for my 1979 2.3 Turbo Mustang using a simple windsheild washer bottle and pump....It was the old carburated/'draw through' non-intercooled turbo system with only a two step ignition retard.
(There were no fancy EEC-IV computer controls back then.) The engine would ping like a Pachinko machine on hot summer days. I hooked up the Methanol injection system to shoot right into the carburator and it worked like a champ.
I once drove back from Ocean City, MD. 'at a high rate of speed' and went through an entire gallon of Methanol!!

[merc406]

have been around for some time, they are awesome, check it out.... http://www.ronsfuel.com/flying_toilet.cfm

[427435]

Interesting thread. Thought I would pass on some info/experience. A water/alcohol mix does indeed provide some significant benefits when supercharging. Water/alcohol mixtures were used on piston aircraft engines during WWII. In addition to cooling the intake charge (which allows more compression and/or spark advance to be used), the alcohol has some kind of chemical effect that slightly delays the onset of pre-ignition. And pre-iginition leads to detonation (and most of us know what that leads to). On the WWII fighter planes, the water/alcohol injection was used when max power was needed, such as during a dog-fight, so it's not a theory but a real performance enhancement for supercharged engines. Water/alcohol injection was also used on the turbocharged F-85 Olds in the early 60's. Does anyone know if it was also used on the Corvair turbos? I don't recall that it was because there were problems with the system on the F-85----people would let the mixture run out, as I remember, leading to blown engines (not the good kind of blown).

I learned about this during the 70's from a U of Minnesota professor and a grad student that helped me (and others) with a severely modified farm tractor used in pulling contests. We turboed a 505 cubic inch, 6 cylinder, LP gas fueled tractor to over 650 engine hp (it orignally was 135). Doesn't sound like a lot for a 505 cubic engine but 3500 rpm was about as fast as we could get that 6" stoke engine to turn. Boost pressure was between 13 and 15 psi. We went through a bunch of pistons whenever our injection pump would fail during a run. We never found a pump that would tolerate the alcohol. The alcohol would dissolve the plastic parts in the pumps. We ended up putting the water/alcohol in a "Moon" tank (remember them). We then ran a line from the manifold (downstream of the turbo) to the top of the Moon tank with another small line back, from the tank bottom, to the intake just ahead of the turbo. Once the boost pressure started to build, the water/alcohol was injected ahead of the turbo. Presto, no pump was needed and the amount being injected was propotional to the boost pressure.

When doing dyno testing, the pipe between the turbo and intake manifold would be cool to the touch. Never lost any more pistons, and the tractor took 15 1st places in 16 events (got the weight distribution wrong on one pull).

The trick is never to run out of the mixture when you're on boost. If you've tuned your engine to take advantage of the mixture, but then run out of it, very bad things happen in an instant. :mad: :mad: