Alternative to S/C; iPod Integration

[Jim Stark]

TWO QUESTIONS/ISSUES:

1. My first post, to which I got some great advice and welcomes, so thanks again for those, regarded my desire to S/C, but feel like that might be a few months down the line or perhaps never due to California restrictions, etc. Still doing research. However, what are some alternatives. I know I want to do brakes and really--having finally opened up the car on several freeway trips this last week and LOVE IT--am concerned with torque. This is major in L.A. where the majority of your driving takes place in an endless series of short bursts. SO: how can I increase performance without s/c.

2. So they're finally integrating iPods into factory systems, but nothing American, so far as I can tell. Do those of you who site iPod as part of your system have some kind of aftermarket system which integrates the iPod?



THANKS AGAIN

[MarauderMark]

TWO QUESTIONS/ISSUES:

1. My first post, to which I got some great advice and welcomes, so thanks again for those, regarded my desire to S/C, but feel like that might be a few months down the line or perhaps never due to California restrictions, etc. Still doing research. However, what are some alternatives. I know I want to do brakes and really--having finally opened up the car on several freeway trips this last week and LOVE IT--am concerned with torque. This is major in L.A. where the majority of your driving takes place in an endless series of short bursts. SO: how can I increase performance without s/c.

THANKS AGAIN

This is the best so far w/o S/cing.http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=627

[Jim Stark]

thanks. will check it out.

[carfixer]

Well, there's alway NOS too...
Linky (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=1190)

[Jim Stark]

Found "iPod2Car" product. Anybody use that?

[Rider90]

If you have a 2004:

Don't get it because they do not have a cable for our Marauder yet. They will ask you to splice into the cable for a Ford Focus, and I did that, with no luck. I'm still waiting for them to make a cable for our Marauder.

They might have a cable that will fit the 03 Marauder/Grand Marquis, but 2004 has not yet been developed and they are completely different.

I've been using the casette adapter for a long time now...

[Smokie]

About the low end torque question, three low cost alternatives are the tuning offered by Dennis and Lidio, Steeda U/D's and 4:10 gears. I opted for a complete exhaust change versus the gears, it will provide a great improvement at the low end vs. stock.

I don't mean to imply it is a subtitute for S/C torque, but it is a very noticeable improvement over stock, it can make your car very agile off the line. Good luck with your choices.

[BillyGman]

The amount of low-end torque an engine provides has everything to do with the amount of displacement if the engine in question is N/A. Smaller engines like that of the Marauder just won't produce a lot of low-end torque without some form of forced induction. That's all there is to it. Sure, you can increase the HP somewhat with N/A mods like exhaust upgrades, and chips or handheld tuners, or dyno tunes, but none of those things will broaden the powerband (ie. the RPM range at which the engine makes good power). The power band of an N/A engine is determined by, and limited the most by the amound of displacement it has. You can even crack open the engine and spend some big bucks for ported cylinder heads, and bigger camshafts, but the power gains will always come higher up in the RPM band. You'll obtain more power, yes, but the low-end torque will not be increased, and in the case of bigger camshafts, and ported cylinder heads, the low-end torque will usually be decreased, and sacrificed for increased power at the upper range of the RPM scale. The only thing those types of mods do, is to increase the engine's power by moving it up to a higher RPM.

And other drivetrain mods such as 4.10 gears, and an increased stall speed will get your car to move off the line a little better, sure, but not by inceasing the low-end torque of the engine, but instead they cause the engine to wind up quicker to get it into it's narrow RPM band of power.

It's only when you increase the displacement by stroking (bigger crankshaft) that you'll actually broaden the powerband, and increase the low-end torque significantly on a Naturally aspirated (N/A) motor. The only way around this is a means of forced induction (roots or twin screw supercharger, Nitrous oxide injection, or turbo charging). Forced induction is the only way to achieve a wider RPM range of power from an engine without increasing the displacement. And I've learned this rule the hard way and by going through alot of $$ with three different cars equipped with V8 engines.

[Directedby]

Jim -

I live in LA and can't do the SC thing either. I have some bolt on parts and am running high 13's.

I had all the work don in LA. The first thing you shoud do is SCT Extreme and 4:10's. That will give you much better low end and will pick upi your 1/4 mile by about .5 sec. Gears are $170 plus $200 install at Hoopers. Dennis Reinhart can set you up with SCT tuner programmed for 4:10'S. YOU JUST PLUG THE SCT INTO PORT UNDER DASH AND IT LOADS INTO YOUR CAR.

Good Luck. If you want to see my car let me know.

Paul




TWO QUESTIONS/ISSUES:

1. My first post, to which I got some great advice and welcomes, so thanks again for those, regarded my desire to S/C, but feel like that might be a few months down the line or perhaps never due to California restrictions, etc. Still doing research. However, what are some alternatives. I know I want to do brakes and really--having finally opened up the car on several freeway trips this last week and LOVE IT--am concerned with torque. This is major in L.A. where the majority of your driving takes place in an endless series of short bursts. SO: how can I increase performance without s/c.

2. So they're finally integrating iPods into factory systems, but nothing American, so far as I can tell. Do those of you who site iPod as part of your system have some kind of aftermarket system which integrates the iPod?



THANKS AGAIN

[Donny Carlson]

Found "iPod2Car" product. Anybody use that?Jim,

The iPod2Car looks good, but once you check out the owner's manual, it looks like you have to splice into the OEM harness. Blech. Unless you are confident to do this, I'd leave it to an autosound installer.

P.I.E. is about to release an iPod interface that works much like the IPod2Car, only it's about $50 less expensive. There are two models, depending on whether your car is prewired for a CD changer or not:

http://www.logjamelectronics.com/ipodford.html

Note that they specifically list the 2003-2004 Marauder in the application list.

for non pre-wired Marauders -
http://www.logjamelectronics.com/piefrd03pcpod.html

for pre-wired Marauders -
http://www.logjamelectronics.com/piefrdnpcpod.html

[maraudernkc]

I agree with everything that BillyGman said except he left out that a Centrifical blower will also increase your tourque.




The only way around this is a means of forced induction (roots or twin screw supercharger


The amount of low-end torque an engine provides has everything to do with the amount of displacement if the engine in question is N/A. Smaller engines like that of the Marauder just won't produce a lot of low-end torque without some form of forced induction. That's all there is to it. Sure, you can increase the HP somewhat with N/A mods like exhaust upgrades, and chips or handheld tuners, or dyno tunes, but none of those things will broaden the powerband (ie. the RPM range at which the engine makes good power). The power band of an N/A engine is determined by, and limited the most by the amound of displacement it has. You can even crack open the engine and spend some big bucks for ported cylinder heads, and bigger camshafts, but the power gains will always come higher up in the RPM band. You'll obtain more power, yes, but the low-end torque will not be increased, and in the case of bigger camshafts, and ported cylinder heads, the low-end torque will usually be decreased, and sacrificed for increased power at the upper range of the RPM scale. The only thing those types of mods do, is to increase the engine's power by moving it up to a higher RPM.

And other drivetrain mods such as 4.10 gears, and an increased stall speed will get your car to move off the line a little better, sure, but not by inceasing the low-end torque of the engine, but instead they cause the engine to wind up quicker to get it into it's narrow RPM band of power.

It's only when you increase the displacement by stroking (bigger crankshaft) that you'll actually broaden the powerband, and increase the low-end torque significantly on a Naturally aspirated (N/A) motor. The only way around this is a means of forced induction (roots or twin screw supercharger, Nitrous oxide injection, or turbo charging). Forced induction is the only way to achieve a wider RPM range of power from an engine without increasing the displacement. And I've learned this rule the hard way and by going through alot of $$ with three different cars equipped with V8 engines.

[BillyGman]

Greg, I would never dispute the fact that a centrifugal supercharger adds a great deal of torque at 4,000 RPM's and above, but the reason that I didn't list centrifugal superchargers in my previous post is simply because he had stated that he's specifically looking for Low-RPM grunt, and centrifugal superchargers are NOT known for that, but rather for the tremendous high RPM punch that they deliver.

[Smokie]

TWO QUESTIONS/ISSUES:

1. My first post, to which I got some great advice and welcomes, so thanks again for those, regarded my desire to S/C, but feel like that might be a few months down the line or perhaps never due to California restrictions, etc. Still doing research. However, what are some alternatives. I know I want to do brakes and really--having finally opened up the car on several freeway trips this last week and LOVE IT--am concerned with torque. This is major in L.A. where the majority of your driving takes place in an endless series of short bursts. SO: how can I increase performance without s/c. THANKS AGAINWe all know blowers are great, but in order to help, we should try address the actual question or request.

[stevengerard]

4.10s and a tune made a big difference to me. Haven't been back to the track yet but seat -o-the-pants felt like a big difference. I've been told a 3000 Torque Converter would help a lot too. I have a 3500 but haven't put it in yet so I can't say for sure.

[Rider90]

Jim,

The iPod2Car looks good, but once you check out the owner's manual, it looks like you have to splice into the OEM harness. Blech. Unless you are confident to do this, I'd leave it to an autosound installer.

P.I.E. is about to release an iPod interface that works much like the IPod2Car, only it's about $50 less expensive. There are two models, depending on whether your car is prewired for a CD changer or not:

http://www.logjamelectronics.com/ipodford.html

Note that they specifically list the 2003-2004 Marauder in the application list.

for non pre-wired Marauders -
http://www.logjamelectronics.com/piefrd03pcpod.html

for pre-wired Marauders -
http://www.logjamelectronics.com/piefrdnpcpod.html

Cool :beatnik:

[Jim Stark]

Thanks for all the feedback. Yeah, it is my sense that supercharging is IDEAL, but don't want to have to go about it furtively on one and only ride, i.e. not just sunny weekend ride, etc. But again will continue to explore all the options and really appreciate the input.

[BillyGman]

We all know blowers are great, but in order to help, we should try address the actual question or request.Your point is acknowledged, and well taken. However, my point and motive has everything to do with making people aware that the lack of off-the-line Low-RPM power that they're disappointed with, and attempting to change with their Marauders, is caused by, and directly related to the relatively narrow RPM range of power that the small 4.6L Marauder engine offers. It simply doesn't produce much power under 4,000 RPM's.

And in order for their Marauders to move when the traffic light turns green as if though the engine under the hood had a wider RPM range of power is to either rebuild the engine to stroke it (adding discplacement with a bigger crankshaft) or adopting a means of forced induction (ie. roots supercharging, Nitrous oxide injection, or twin turbo charging). there are other, and less expensive ways to increase the HP, but all of those lesser mods will only increase the power in the RPM range that the factory stock marauder engine already offers, and will NOT increase the RPM range of that power. ONLY stroking, or forced induction will accomplish that. And anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to make money off of you, or is merely parroting what was told to them by someone who is looking to make $$. I'm telling you this from experience with my own Marauder, and with some other cars that I've owned, and I have absolutely nothing to gain by sharing this with you.

I just don't want to see peoples' expectations of the other lesser mods get too high. I'm attempting to help you to keep your expectations of the small modifications realistic, so that you won't be setting yourself up for a big letdown. And BTW, Jim, you made a comment about wanting to keep your car as a daily driver, and you've implied that this was the reason that you wouldn't supercharge your car. but my Marauder is not only supercharged, but it is my daily driver, and it is my only car. It gets driven everywhere, for 12 months out of the year, even in snowstorms, without problem. It's just as comfortable to drive as it always was whether it's in bumper-to-bumper traffic, or at the drag strip. It still gets me back and forth to work every day, and is a joy to drive. The car moves like it has a big block motor under the hood.:)

The title of this thread suggests that there's an "alternative" to supercharging, but the only alternative is another means of forced induction, or increasing the stroke of the engine with another crankshaft.There's nothing else that will actually widen the RPM range in which the Marauder engine exhibits good power. And any HONEST engine builder will tell you that. You'll likely hear a much different story from many speed shops since they're looking to sell you parts. You would do well to keep this in mind.

[1 BAD 03 MM]

And BTW, Jim, you made a comment about wanting to keep your car as a daily driver, and you've implied that this was the reason that you wouldn't supercharge your car. but my Marauder is not only supercharged, but it is my daily driver, and it is my only car. It gets driven everywhere, for 12 months out of the year, even in snowstorms, without problem.it's just as comfortable to drive as it alwys was whether it's in bumper-to-bumper traffic, or at the drag strip.

AND you have 4.56 gears to boot. For me, installing 4.56 gears is going to be my attempt at the cheapest way to put that narrow power band to work quicker. As you mentioned Billy, the power in these BIG looking small displacement cammers, really doesn't come on till 3,500-4,000 RPM's.

I realize this is too steep of a change for most, but after some conversation with Billy, :bows: and some experience of my own with how gear ratios effect WHEN the power comes on, not HOW much comes on, this will be my experiment. Well that and of course the expert tuning knowledge provided in a little black box that Lidio :bows: has blessed with all the 1's and 0's being in their proper planetary alignment.

My :twocents:

BTW Billy, I bet it's even more comfortable to drive knowing you have all that power at your disposal, or should I say at anyone who dares, disposal. :neener:

[BillyGman]

AND you have 4.56 gears to boot. For me, installing 4.56 gears is going to be my attempt at the cheapest way to put that narrow power band to work quicker. As you mentioned Billy, the power in these BIG looking small displacement cammers, really doesn't come on till 3,500-4,000 RPM's.

I realize this is too steep of a change for most, but after some conversation with Billy, :bows: and some experience of my own with how gear ratios effect WHEN the power comes on, not HOW much comes on, this will be my experiment. Well that and of course the expert tuning knowledge provided in a little black box that Lidio :bows: has blessed with all the 1's and 0's being in their proper planetary alignment.

My :twocents:

BTW Billy, I bet it's even more comfortable to drive knowing you have all that power at your disposal, or should I say at anyone who dares, disposal. :neener:LOL.....it sounds like you're on the right track. At the very least, you're not in denial about all of this, and that's good. I wish that I could say the same for all Marauder owners(that's just a general statement folks. It isn't neccessarily directed at anyone specifically in this thread....but if the shoe fits, well.....). People have the right and the privilage to spend their $$ whatever way they choose for their Marauder, and I respect that entirely. I'm simply trying to help people to keep their expectations realistic, and to actually save some $$ in the longrun if their expectaions for HIGH performance are, uhmm, well,..... high.

Because before I supercharged my Marauder, I can honestly say that my expectations of the other lesser modifications availaible for the Marauder, were not realistic, and I was thoroughly disappointed. And that's what I got for believing the claims of some people. BTW, about those 4.56's, just remember what I told you about the need for that special Richmond cross shaft pin. And once those gears are installed, you better get used to your engine bouncing off of the rev limiter in first gear during burnouts from a dead punch. :D

[1 BAD 03 MM]

BTW, about those 4.56's, just remember what I told you about the need for that special Richmond cross shaft pin. And once those gears are installed, you better get used to your engine bouncing off of the rev limiter in first gear during burnouts from a dead punch. :D
Yup, Ford 4.56's and cross shaft pin's in "my garage" at Summit, and the rev limiter issue is a problem I won't have any regrets dealing with. :burnout:

[Smokie]

265 ft/lbs of torque to the rear wheels at 2000 rpm's will make our cars very agile off the line.....:)

[metroplex]

My engine makes most of the sound and music I listen to.... the radio and MP3 CD player provide background noise.

[Jim Stark]

Your point is acknowledged, and well taken. However, my point and motive has everything to do with making people aware that the lack of off-the-line Low-RPM power that they're disappointed with, and attempting to change with their Marauders, is caused by, and directly related to the relatively narrow RPM range of power that the small 4.6L Marauder engine offers. It simply doesn't produce much power under 4,000 RPM's.

And in order for their Marauders to move when the traffic light turns green as if though the engine under the hood had a wider RPM range of power is to either rebuild the engine to stroke it (adding discplacement with a bigger crankshaft) or adopting a means of forced induction (ie. roots supercharging, Nitrous oxide injection, or twin turbo charging). there are other, and less expensive ways to increase the HP, but all of those lesser mods will only increase the power in the RPM range that the factory stock marauder engine already offers, and will NOT increase the RPM range of that power. ONLY stroking, or forced induction will accomplish that. And anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to make money off of you, or is merely parroting what was told to them by someone who is looking to make $$. I'm telling you this from experience with my own Marauder, and with some other cars that I've owned, and I have absolutely nothing to gain by sharing this with you.

I just don't want to see peoples' expectations of the other lesser mods get too high. I'm attempting to help you to keep your expectations of the small modifications realistic, so that you won't be setting yourself up for a big letdown. And BTW, Jim, you made a comment about wanting to keep your car as a daily driver, and you've implied that this was the reason that you wouldn't supercharge your car. but my Marauder is not only supercharged, but it is my daily driver, and it is my only car. It gets driven everywhere, for 12 months out of the year, even in snowstorms, without problem. It's just as comfortable to drive as it always was whether it's in bumper-to-bumper traffic, or at the drag strip. It still gets me back and forth to work every day, and is a joy to drive. The car moves like it has a big block motor under the hood.:)

The title of this thread suggests that there's an "alternative" to supercharging, but the only alternative is another means of forced induction, or increasing the stroke of the engine with another crankshaft.There's nothing else that will actually widen the RPM range in which the Marauder engine exhibits good power. And any HONEST engine builder will tell you that. You'll likely hear a much different story from many speed shops since they're looking to sell you parts. You would do well to keep this in mind.

thanks. I certainly appreciate concern and detail of your responses. Particularly important to know that you have power AND reliability. And no question, having had it in the past with other rides, that it's off the line response that I miss and need, and really completes package of an otherwise ideal experience. .

I'll keep all abreast.

[BillyGman]

thanks. I certainly appreciate concern and detail of your responses. Particularly important to know that you have power AND reliability. And no question, having had it in the past with other rides, that it's off the line response that I miss and need, and really completes package of an otherwise ideal experience. .

I'll keep all abreast.Okay Jim.....I know many people aren't looking to drop as much coin as it takes for any means of forced induction, and I understand that. But hey, I never thought that I would either, and I'm sure glad that I did. I just wasn't satisfied with the performance of this car until it was S/Ced. And everyone knows that I tried almost everything else besides forced induction. Either way, I wish you the best for your car. Let me know if you ever have any questions about any of the mods that I've done to my Marauder. I'll always do my best to give you the straight scoop, along with specifics concerning exactly how much of a quartermile ET reduction I obtained with each mod that I performed to this car. :)

[Jim Stark]

Okay Jim.....I know many people aren't looking to drop as much coin as it takes for any means of forced induction, and I understand that. But hey, I never thought that I would either, and I'm sure glad that I did. I just wasn't satisfied with the performance of this car until it was S/Ced. And everyone knows that I tried almost everything else besides forced induction. Either way, I wish you the best for your car. Let me know if you ever have any questions about any of the mods that I've done to my Marauder. I'll always do my best to give you the straight scoop, along with specifics concerning exactly how much of a quartermile ET reduction I obtained with each mod that I performed to this car. :)

Thanks again Billy. Having had the penchant re: many obsessions I know the danger of a series of partial investments that add up to more money and less product. So I'm pretty converted. I will let you knowr; should be in next month or two.