TCE Special through April 30th

[Todd TCE]

I was asked to see what type of special, GB, or discount I could put together as we head into the Spring time.

Here it is:

Base Marauder kit $1495
Slotted rotors 55
Zinc plate 65
Rear ss hoses 99 (not normally offered)
Normal price $1714

Purchased by April 30th, paid with personal check or MO: $1500 plus shipping. CC's orders accepted for a lesser discount; $1550.

OPIONS:
Drill & Slot rotors Add: $125
Red BSL6n Calipers Add: $165

No special pricing on custom built 14" kits.
No specials on custom built rear kits unless we get a qty deal of sorts going, then perhaps we can work out something. Still, the rear is not cheap to do.

[merc]

Thanks Todd for posting the Group Buy information. I am in and should have the cash in April.

[shakes_26]

Oh sure, thanks! Here I thought I had controlled my mod madness with swaybars, Metco control arms and the Watts link... and now this.

Todd, you're.. such.. an enabler! You'd probably give an alcoholic a drink (make mine captain and coke). And we love you for it :)

One question, you mention zinc plate, what exactly is plated, also what color are the calipers?

Thanks,

marc

[Joe Walsh]

Todd, I'm thinking that it might be time to 'bite the bullet' on your Big Brake Kit....
I've got a few questions:
I'm interested in BOTH front and rear brakes...How much for a rear brake kit?

I've been reading that cross-drilling is not the best for longevity on street driven cars. Do you recommend just slotting?... Neither?
(Only track my Marauder will see is 1/4 mile Drag Racing)

What are the standard calipers?....gloss black Willwood 6 piston?
Any performance improvements with red BSL6N calipers, or is it just "Bling"?

P.S. I like the idea of the zinc plate/wash to keep all the non-friction surfaces rust free.

Anybody else interested in the REAR brake kit?

[Todd TCE]

The rotor is zinc plated.

Calipers are black unless you opt for the Wilwood factory applied red finish. This is an additional $165 however.

(here's a pic of the Magnum kit, cuz I knew you'd ask)

[HwyCruiser]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59 40

Now that's ^^^^ sharp. I'm pretty fond of the basic black though.

Is red the only other color option?

[Todd TCE]

Yes, yes it is. $170 worth? Maybe not. Red only, sorry.

Joe; Missed your q's. As you know I can do front and rear, but the rear is a messy product of sorts as it's complicated. In fact I need to re evaluate the pricing of it probably.

As for drilled, well I'd not but that's what makes custom kits my business. You want holes? No problem. Slots? You bet. Zinc? Can do. Nothing? Got it. I'd opt for drille on a street app well before a kit used for heavy open track use. High heat is the killer to drilled rotors, not daily use.

The choices for the front are limited by the wheel as we've said for a year now. The ONLY caliper of choice is the narrow six on the 1.10" rotor. And perhaps in RED if you like. The larger kits in 14" can be red as well and are 1.25" rotors. No special pricing on this one as it's really a 'one off' build to order. i.e. add $$

Hope this helps.

[Eric91Z]

Will these kits work on any '03 and newer Panther car with the proper wheels?

[Todd TCE]

A question I cannot answer.

The basics of the kit were designed and test fit to a factory new MM steering knuckle as were the specs of the kit paired too. If there is another car with the SAME alum knuckle you'd have a place to start.

[Directedby]

Doesthis kit include all 4 rotors?


I was asked to see what type of special, GB, or discount I could put together as we head into the Spring time.

Here it is:

Base Marauder kit $1495
Slotted rotors 55
Zinc plate 65
Rear ss hoses 99 (not normally offered)
Normal price $1714

Purchased by April 30th, paid with personal check or MO: $1500 plus shipping. CC's orders accepted for a lesser discount; $1550.

OPIONS:
Drill & Slot rotors Add: $125
Red BSL6n Calipers Add: $165

No special pricing on custom built 14" kits.
No specials on custom built rear kits unless we get a qty deal of sorts going, then perhaps we can work out something. Still, the rear is not cheap to do.

[Joe Walsh]

No, Front Brake kit only....I think Todd does include the Rear brake lines (SS braided) for that price.

[Todd TCE]

That is correct.
Front kit only on the deal. And the rear hoses- something not commonly supplied by anyone as a small bonus.


...and those are opTions, not opions....sorry.

[merc]

Ordered today, who is next ?. We need two more for the group buy.

[Joe Walsh]

I think I'm in....I've got to finish my taxes to see if I'll have any money for the brake kit.
Todd, we have until the end of the month (April) right?

P.S. ANYONE interested in a REAR brake kit too??

[merc]

For the rear rotors I was thinking about one of these from KVR using O.E.M. calipers. I think Dennis could help us out.

[Agent M79]

Speaking strictly aesthetics, I would love a brake kit where the fronts and rears were identical.

As TCE has demonstrated, there is no practical reason for doing so and the economics of doing so for a very low volume application make it prohibitively expensive.
Brakes are on my short list and once the scratch is together to move ahead, I will have to settle for fronts and rears that appear similar or are dressed in a similar fashion.

[Joe Walsh]

Speaking strictly aesthetics, I would love a brake kit where the fronts and rears were identical.

As TCE has demonstrated, there is no practical reason for doing so and the economics of doing so for a very low volume application make it prohibitively expensive.
Brakes are on my short list and once the scratch is together to move ahead, I will have to settle for fronts and rears that appear similar or are dressed in a similar fashion.

I would consider the KVR rear brake kit as an alternative to having Todd 'build' a rear brake kit for me.
I do have one major concern...I have spoken at length with Todd and he really knows his stuff.
Todd had mentioned to me that with his experience, he could build a rear brake kit to match the front brakes AND provide the correct caliper size and brake pad material in order to get a properly balanced front to rear brake bias.
I know that Todd's rear brake kit is not cheap, but I do like the idea of it being a total, matched, bias/balanced system.
I'll do a little searching of posts to get up to date on the KVR rear brake system...

[Todd TCE]

Couple of updates as I have your ear....

The rotors shown from KVR will NOT work on the rear of your car. Unless they have produced a dedicated rear rotor (not that I know of) you will require the rear retain the parking brake drum. The ones shown do not. Not that you can't get MATCHING LOOKING rotors from a few suppliers, just not modular and larger.

My rear kit does all of this. And does it better by way of fixed mount multi piston caliper. On both ends of the car actually. The down side as most of you know is cost and complexity. Core exchanges on mount plates, axle removal, diff shimming, then you get to the brakes....that's the easy part!

On the "Good News" front: WW has lowered RED caliper sub to $135 per kit! So if RED is your thing this is as good as it's likely to get. RED is not available on the rear kit however unless you paint to match on your own.

Thanks for listening.

[merc]

I would consider the KVR rear brake kit as an alternative to having Todd 'build' a rear brake kit for me.
I do have one major concern...I have spoken at length with Todd and he really knows his stuff.
Todd had mentioned to me that with his experience, he could build a rear brake kit to match the front brakes AND provide the correct caliper size and brake pad material in order to get a properly balanced front to rear brake bias.
I know that Todd's rear brake kit is not cheap, but I do like the idea of it being a total, matched, bias/balanced system.
I'll do a little searching of posts to get up to date on the KVR rear brake system...

If the Wilwood front brake kit works perfectly with the O.E.M. rear brakes and pads, why would changing the rear rotor make a big differance? The arguement stands true with one piece Power Slot rear rotors also.

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brakebiasandperformance.htm

[merc]

Couple of updates as I have your ear....

The rotors shown from KVR will NOT work on the rear of your car. Unless they have produced a dedicated rear rotor (not that I know of) you will require the rear retain the parking brake drum. The ones shown do not. Not that you can't get MATCHING LOOKING rotors from a few suppliers, just not modular and larger.



I was on KVR's website and they produce a dedicated rear rotor for the Marauder along with a front and complete kit. Dennis has been selling the 14' kit and other KVR rotors for a while. Check the link below
https://www.kvrperformance.com/world/world.html

There is a comparision picture of the Baer and KVR kit in the M.M. net gallary

Brake compairison (http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/6114/sort/1/cat/all/page/1)

Both kits were designed for the Marauders and have rear rotors. What I am attempting is a less expensive route to balance the look. This is not to start a argument because you have my dollars and loyalty.

[Todd TCE]

If the Wilwood front brake kit works perfectly with the O.E.M. rear brakes and pads, why would changing the rear rotor make a big differance? The arguement stands true with one piece Power Slot rear rotors also.

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brakebiasandperformance.htm


The Front kit will work fine with either the stock rear rotor, OR the larger rear rotor kit. You don't 'need' one or the other. It won't make a big difference if it is engineered properly.

Adding the larger rear rotors is more than anything; cosmetic. Let's be honest here. If you put larger rotors and nice calipers up front you're going to want them out back to match.

Are the the rears a problem for the front kit? No, nor are the stock parts. You're making the assumption that somehow they are poorly matched. Why?

Yes I'm all well aware of the self proclaimed gospel ST white papers...you'd think they design the brake. They didn't. And in fairness neither did I. Although I've been in business longer...

"....manufacturer and supplier of high performance brake components and systems. * United by their passion for racing and high performance vehicles, the founding staff....." *Seems they finally edited the text here. For the record the sentence deleted prior to 'United' (thus the reason it reads funny) is one of "founded by three men, one an engineer, the other a manufaturer, and the thrid a marketing expert"- or something to that extent. God's truth that's what it had said proir to edit! Emphasis on MARKETING.

"StopTech is the first aftermarket brake company to offer balanced front brake upgrades, engineered to dramatically improve overall braking performance while remaining compatible with the stock OE rear brakes. "

Oh, bunk. They are not the first to sell such products at all. They are the first to take a swipe at marketing it as such. Note that the comment does not define 'overall braking performance'. What they mean if you dig deep enough is that on many vehicles the bias of the braking system is shifted more to favor the rears. And the real world performance is greater thermal capacity. We all agree we stop fine on the first app, it's the 10th one that leaves one wondering! They will not achieve the same goals on all cars however. These results are achieved mainly on heavier vehicles. Or ones with mild handling characteristics right out of the box. Let's see the same claim on a Ford Focus. Won't happen. Not by me, not by them. The vehicle dynamics are to blame not the brakes.

"We design our brake upgrades to preserve the target vehicle's front to rear brake torque ratios, and to be compatible with ABS, traction control and the OE master cylinder."

Well said. And I can't agree more generally. Some builders do not even consider this. Slap a bigger rotor on it Charlie, they'll buy it!

For the record we both achieve the same goals. And for the record they do produce a fine product. All be it very heavy. You want very stiff- you get very heavy. Part of that trade off. It's not really rocket science, although you might think that at times.

*Do I have issues with this company?? Only that their marketing leads one to believe they somehow offer products that other manufactures do not. Too the extent that everything else is just junk. Not so, and I think many other manufacures customers would agreee. I've converted a few of theirs along the way.

One issue that came up some time ago was the mounting of way larger front brakes and how they 'stand the car on its nose' comments. Both ST and myself agree that there is something wrong with that. I fit my Magnum kit locally and the first commment I got back from the own was how impressed he was that the car 'hunkers down flat' when he brakes. Later at a MINI meet I met a guy with a poorly designed front kit...he told me that he'd read my comments on his kit and took offense to them...now he understood why I made those comments...he drove one of my kits and immediately noticed the lack of dive braking and more control of flat braking...he's going to get with me on one of my rear kits I think in hopes of trying to correct this at least some. (he as gross amounts of front bias, about 88% if I recall and needs larger rear rotors at the least to try and help out!)

[Todd TCE]

I was on KVR's website and they produce a dedicated rear rotor for the Marauder along with a front and complete kit. Dennis has been selling the 14' kit and other KVR rotors for a while. Check the link below
https://www.kvrperformance.com/world/world.html

There is a comparision picture of the Baer and KVR kit in the M.M. net gallary

Brake compairison (http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/6114/sort/1/cat/all/page/1)

Both kits were designed for the Marauders and have rear rotors. What I am attempting is a less expensive route to balance the look. This is not to start a argument because you have my dollars and loyalty.

I searched it out too and only see a listing for rear rotors being drilled or slotted rotors of stock size. i.e. they take Ford (or others) and slot them or drill them to match the fronts. That's cool. And an affordable alternative.

To date however I'll claim to be the only company to offfer multi piece rear rotors and caliper conversions. (insert chest thumping here! lol)

That CERTAINLY doesn't mean that everyone needs this kit. They don't. And I'm not big on selling it due to the complexity and cost. By comparrison I do have about 50+ Impala rear kits on the market which share the same rotors and calipers (no not the hats, the ROTORS) and they are an easy add on to the Impala kits for a rear upgrade. Somehow Ford opted for a slider rear caliper on a funky iron plate to do the MM. Bad, very bad from where I sit...

** While I'm sure I'll take heat for it, apply that ST balanced brake plan to this link to the Baear/KVR packages. Want me to tell you how grossly over biased the KVR kit is? Now compare it to my offerings. I can whip it out in spread sheet data if you wish.

[merc]

You bring up an interesting point. I reviewed the KVR information a little closer and found they don’t offer a two-piece rear rotor, only a solid disk. Statistical information is always helpful if properly understood. M.M. net member have learned many things by trial and error. I have personally benefited from their experiences. Your knowledge of brakes is second to none, and it’s an honor to have your input. Purchasing a performance brake system seems to be low on most members list. The excitement of a S/C is a driving force that consumes all disposable and discretionary income. I for one would like to take another approach. I think adding performance brakes will enhance the bling factor, inject excitement, and show quality to the marauder. I believe as we approach the end of our monthly car payments and warranty periods you will receive more inquiries. All it takes is one call to TCE Performance Products and you will be hooked. :beer:

[Todd TCE]

You bring up an interesting point. :beer:

Yes, but my hair hides it well. lol

I agree; many owners will find new items including brakes a very beneficial upgrade for their car. Regardless of whom they are purchsed from. The big problem with brakes on the MM is the wheel fit. I've talked about this before but it's still the same.

Brake guys are always the last to be called.
:(

[shakes_26]

Todd,

As usual your dead on....... especially about the point showing :)

As for Merc, yoru right, I like more whoa than go. As I always say, its better to get OUT of trouble faster than you got in it.

[Todd TCE]

TIME'S A WASTIN' ON THIS ONE...........

Two weeks left on the discount deal WITH the rear hoses. If you are thinking now is a good time, you're right!

Like they say in the furniture business; "why pay retail?" :D

[Joe Walsh]

Todd, I'm doing my taxes this evening and hopefully I will get a decent REFUND...which I will promptly spend on your 'Big Brake Deal'.
I forgot to call you about the rear brake kit last week. Do you want to 'PM' me with any details? Or just post the info/pricing on this thread??

[Todd TCE]

Here is what I came up with on the rears.

Complete rear kit includes:

FSL calipers on 13" rotors, Gas slotted and zinc plated, pads, mounting brackets, modified factory brackets, hardware, C clip kit, hoses and hose brackets.

$1479 PLUS Refundable $200 core charge on factory plates, plus shipping.

Options: Drilled only or Drill/Slot combo- Add $125


I'll try to get this up on the web page asap. I currently have ONE set of the factory plates to share with everyone on the exchange basis. No RED calipers, no combo discounts due to the limited production of the kit and the labor aspects of producing it.

[merc]

:bump: :drive:

This Album or CD is dedicated to you Todd.
Showing my age...album...??? :help: :burnout:

[merc]

I will have to change the name of the CD to All gas and All brakes.
Look what the brown truck driver gave me.

Todd, you da man :2thumbs:

[merc]

Well the big brakes are finally on and what a difference it makes. S/C Marauders have fun throttling through the torque band, but performance braking adds another prospective. I now have to learn how to drive my car again. The brake pedal feels like a 2-pound trigger pull on my Kimber 45. It has a positive fell with a light touch, but a few pounds of pressure yields a massive gorilla stopping motion with very little front bias. If you proceed with the downward pressure you will find the ABS asking you “What's Up”. One added bonus is the weight reduction.

O.E.M. front caliper 18 pounds x 2 = 36 pounds
O.E.M front rotor 22 pounds x 2 = 44 pounds

Total weight 80 pounds not including bolts and dust cover.

The TCE Wilwood Marauder Brake Kit total weight including packaging from UPS = 51 pounds. That number includes the stainless steel lines, mounting bracket and bolts.
I don’t have an exact numbers on the TCE rotors and calipers, but I am sure Todd will chime in with the statistics.

Todd is a great vendor and has answered all of my phones calls (about 6 times), and a countless amount of e-mails. When it came to replacement parts I received the shipment within 24 hours. Great Customer Service and a in depth knowledge of the trade is what TCE Performance is all about.

[Todd TCE]

Appears that I'm a little late to the party....

Feedback much appreciated. I never did run the math on weight reduction in the shop as I used the spindle assembly to build from and didn't have nor need the stock caliper. From the math here I'd say about a 14-15# per corner total reduction. Not bad. And still keeping the weight where it has some effectiveness- in the rotor. (*the 14" kit would be about 5# heavier due to the dia as well as being 1.25" wide- but remember; it doesn't fit the wheels)

Put some miles on them for a week or so and please rebleed them one more time. Not uncommon for small bubble to be stuck to the sides of the caliper inside and they become jarred loose over time. A simple bleeder bottle with a 1/4 wrench is all that is needed. Two squirts per bleeder should do the trick.

This kit and some others out now have some new pads in them as well. I'd like to hear your comments on them over the next few weeks. The former Q compound proved problematic at times and I've been back ordered on Hawk HPS for weeks now for this caliper. At the same time Wilwood has released the pad in use and suggests that it has reasonable torque and perhaps a bit more dust than the Q compound. Only time will tell. And of course changing them is very simple if the time comes you'd like to put in a performance pad as well.

[Todd TCE]

End of this week and we're a wrap on this special price guys.

If you are on the fence; time to fall off. Don't wait, get 'er done~!

I'll be placing the final build order for the rear hoses for those who have taken me up on this one and won't likely be carrying any spares for the future. Get 'em while I have them.

Give me a ring and I'll write it up!

:beer: