Custom Procharger AirBox

[tmac1337]

Custom made, all alluminum. Tested yesterday 81 degrees outside.

At 40 MPH airbox temp was 85 degrees, engine bay compartment over 30 degrees hotter 115+.

At 70 MPH airbox temp 84 degrees, engine bay compartment 106+ degrees.

The slower the car is going, the engine bay compartment temp will climb higher and higher, I saw it over 135 while looking at the readout once, stopped.

Airbox temp. never exceeded over 5 degrees above outside ambient while moving. Never saw it above 90 while at a stop light.

Airbox utilizes the stock rubber fitting that extends to back of headlight from airbox (shortened). Also as there are 2 holes behind the headlight on the frame, another hole was cut and a 3" alluminum tube was extended back behind the headlight as well.

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s2.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s3.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s1.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s4.jpg

[shakes_26]

I like the stovenator, it was most excellent. http://mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif



Custom made, all alluminum. Tested yesterday 81 degrees outside.

At 40 MPH airbox temp was 85 degrees, engine bay compartment over 30 degrees hotter 115+.

At 70 MPH airbox temp 84 degrees, engine bay compartment 106+ degrees.

The slower the car is going, the engine bay compartment temp will climb higher and higher, I saw it over 135 while looking at the readout once, stopped.

Airbox temp. never exceeded over 5 degrees above outside ambient while moving. Never saw it above 90 while at a stop light.

Airbox utilizes the stock rubber fitting that extends to back of headlight from airbox (shortened). Also as there are 2 holes behind the headlight on the frame, another hole was cut and a 3" alluminum tube was extended back behind the headlight as well.

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s2.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s3.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s1.jpg

[MarauderMark]

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s3.jpg
I don't know about the advantages and disadvantages but that damn thing looks great!!!I like that alot better than home depot.. :D

[tmac1337]

I don't know about the advantages and disadvantages but that damn thing looks great!!!I like that alot better than home depot.. :D

The advantage in lower air temps from the box vs. heat soak air from the engine is plain to see.

This thing looks real good, much better quality than a N/A airbox I tried to use on my car over a year ago.

I drove the car last night and kicked it up to 7 PSI, the most I have used since new Diablo tune, and it seemed to be getting plenty of air.

As for the stove pipe, I surely will miss it, a real "one of!"

[Joe Walsh]

Nice looking piece! Is that going to be offered as part of Greg's Kit??

[tmac1337]

Nice looking piece! Is that going to be offered as part of Greg's Kit??

I will refer all questions about what he is providing to him, delineating from that seems to get me in hot water :mad2:

[SouLRioT]

Very cool Tim, will we get to see this tonight?

[tmac1337]

Very cool Tim, will we get to see this tonight?

I will be by for at least an hour tonight, feel free to fondle.

[Cobra25]

I was present at the shop with tim when this air box was being made. The man took his time and the end product came out excellent.

[merc]

Bling Bling, what a great job. :beer:

[tmac1337]

This is a picture with the top off.
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s4.jpg

[MI2QWK4U]

I wonder how much power that would add to my ride....

[tmac1337]

I wonder how much power that would add to my ride....
Not much, but you could take a hot bath in it.

[MI2QWK4U]

Not much, but you could take a hot bath in it.


Sweet!

Does look good in the engine bay..

[shakes_26]

I saw this tonight, and it is awesome, very quality piece of work.

[MikesMerc]

Nice mod! Looks very good indeed :beer:

[RoyLPita]

Very nice. It adds a nice touch.

[fastblackmerc]

Very nice. It adds a nice touch.
Very nice! :D

[SergntMac]

Custom made, all alluminum. Tested yesterday 81 degrees outside.

At 40 MPH airbox temp was 85 degrees, engine bay compartment over 30 degrees hotter 115+.

At 70 MPH airbox temp 84 degrees, engine bay compartment 106+ degrees.

The slower the car is going, the engine bay compartment temp will climb higher and higher, I saw it over 135 while looking at the readout once, stopped.

Airbox temp. never exceeded over 5 degrees above outside ambient while moving. Never saw it above 90 while at a stop light.

Airbox utilizes the stock rubber fitting that extends to back of headlight from airbox (shortened). Also as there are 2 holes behind the headlight on the frame, another hole was cut and a 3" alluminum tube was extended back behind the headlight as well.This is amazing, Tim, what are your IAT's coming in at?

[tmac1337]

This is amazing, Tim, what are your IAT's coming in at?
There are several variables. MPH to blow the air through the intercooler(intercooler needs to be in a solid air stream), amount of boost, how hot out it is at the time, humidity. I have tested the AIT several times, obviously the faster you go, the cooler it is. This kit is not water based so the air stream is the determining factor.

But I have had no heat related issues so far. The last time I really beat on the car WOT, only using about 5 PSI, the AIT was 18-19 degrees above outside ambient for a few seconds, but will drop down (I tested the box to 7 PSI, but not the AIT since Diablo). The AIT is so sporadic due to the air flow through the intercooler, boost, it rises up and down. I do know that highs will only be reached for mere seconds. My low mile AIT's were just a few degrees unless I was at a complete stop for several minutes just sitting that I stopped testing them long ago.

I have not done a WOT run full boost 8-9 PSI (thankyou Diablo) yet as this kit is producing so much power so quickly with 3-5 PSI that I have had no need to utilize more. I have popped right up to 125 MPH with 4 PSI several times now. Right now with a safe tune, I have the 42 pound injectors and the lightning MAF maxed out, with my stock motor I'm done. I think if I did a full boost WOT run the AIT would probably get into the twenties above ambient somewhere, but as usual, drop right back down again after I released the pedal. Anybody who disputes my AIT feel free to come over my house and see for yourself!

The airbox is working fantastic, I have already posted those numbers. I need to specifically test the AIT again to see what impact the box is having. I expect the box will most impact the low speeds, 0-45 MPH when the air flow is the least.

I am at the point now where I am seeing serious heat reductions with the box, have a blower that produces much less heat when considering forced induction techniques, have an intercooler to remove most of the heat produced by the blower, and inside/outside ceramic coated pipes after the cooler into the engine intake to minimize heat soak (top tube was coated for bling only).

Different blower models by the same company will produce different degrees of heat, so you cannot even say all centrufugal blowers will produce the same, they do not. I'm sure that there is a difference between the companies as well depending on the impeller RPM spin, design, and so forth.

This kit can use 16 degrees of timing no problem without the box and ceramic coating, so heat is not an issue. I am currently running 14 degrees of timing to be safe. Since I reside in one of the hottest parts of the country with miserable humidity, I need to be safe. For those folks in cooler locations, the full 16 or possibly more degrees of timing would be no problem. The ceramic coating removed a few degrees of heat soak alone.

I hope this answers your question.

[SergntMac]

Thanks for the detail, Tim, and for your e-mail.

I'm focused on IAT numbers because this is the 411 the PCM will use in metering out AFR, spark and timing tables in any on-ramp romp, or, 1/4 mile contest. We can endure high IATs after the run, that's not really an issue because it's after the fact. However, IMHO, one can build all the cold air induction systems possible, and if they do not chill IATs (taken at the MAF), the effort is to no avail.

You have some decent numbers going on, Tim, 18-20 degrees above ambient is cold, considering the average temp of any engine bay. I have been vocal here about "cold air" kits that suck up hotter engine bay air, and IMHO, if air is going into the MAF that much hotter without any means to cool it before hand, it's not a "cold air" kit, let's stop bull****ting each other, eh?

I have a water-to-air intercooler, and I'm getting even lower temps than you. I average 8 to 10 degrees above ambient at any speed, with spikes to 15 degrees after a WOT romp. Nonetheless, water-to-air adds about 1500, maybe 2K to the cost of a supercharger system, and one must decide how he wants to spend his money. It's nice to have a choice, and see that it's not going to tax you all that much for making a financial decision.

My advice is to get supercharged first, and add water-to-air down the road, when real competition justifies the added expense for the added power. Your ProCharger setup is a fine example of affordable power for the MM.

I agree with your sentiments via e-mail. Folks who blindly pledge loyalty to the Roots theory of supercharging need to get some seat time behind a centrifugal. Yes, there are differences, not all the rehortic we read here is propaganda. However, the differences are not as severe as we have heard boasted here, and each style has it's own shining features. Truth be told, the water-to-air intercooler on a Roots style system is not as efficient as it is on a centrifugal. The intercooler is nested inside the engine, between the block and the blower. You have measured engine bay temps, is it any cooler inside the engine itself? I think not.

In all honesty, there comes a point in building power with either style of supercharging, that the power becomes unmanageable and then, it's all a waste of time and money. Many of us here, myself included, have shared dreams of 500 or more HP at the wheels, but the truth behind the reality is that you can't do all that much with that kind of power on the street.

It's simple math. Moving 4400 pounds of automobile from a dead stop is a challenge. As you build torque and HP, traction declines in a reverse sliding scale, and traction is a key issue. Without it, you go nowhere. The car is too long and too heavy to take advantage of the race car suspension theories we see at play in NMRA like competition. Build power too soon in the launch, and you likewise build too much slip, slip you cannot recover from in a timed event, because you already lost to the clock.

If the objective is to have the quickest car on the street, quick isn't always fast, or, powerful. I've driven 600+ RWHP Mustangs on the street, and you know where they really go? On sale, because you can't manage them on the blacktop, and they mature into stop-light losers.

I have this problem now. With 478 RWHP/434 RWTQ on a built engine, I can't hook to save my life, street or strip. If I added headers and an electric water pump, I'd be over 500 RWHP with a snap of my MasterCard. However, just two weeks ago, I turned 15.6x, 14.4x and 13.4x in the quarter. Why? No traction, and I'm not sure the selection of drag radials available today will be an easy cure. I'll find out more later today. Nonetheless, every run broke 110 MPH in the traps, so, I know my potential is within reach.

My point is, is that having the high numbers doesn't make your car quick. In fact, the evidence I have seen so far, is that too much power will cost you performance. The Marauder isn't a Mustang, and launching it is a whole new deal in traction and suspension geometry.

Sorry to run of topic here, Tim, but let me add that you're doing a great job with your ProCharger system, bravo! Keep us posted on the developments, I would love to see some track times, I imagine a 12 second Marauder with a good tune, and for the budget minded owner that doesn't want to overbuild his MM and get lost in traction issues, under 5K is very attractive.

Thanks again, happy motoring.

[tmac1337]

Mac, those IAT numbers with your kit are great! And I know they are accurate, the way your kit is setup.

I have seen some kits recently at our car shows in S. FL. that do not have a AIT sensor mounted underneath the blower to get an accurate reading of the temp, but still are taking the reading from the MAF, before the blower, before the air is heated.

On an air/water, with no sensor, if you cannot get an accurate reading the way the blower is setup, a tuner will have to estimate what the AIT will be based on other cars of that type he has tested. I have asked and the answer I received is an estimate of (I'll delete this part for sensitivity) degrees temp. once the coolant has stabilized, if the cooler is engine mounted. Cold numbers are not accurate. Doing multiple runs and taking the average is. More heat means less timing can be run. That is why knowing your timing will give you an indication of how efficient the blower is. What do you think about 10.5 degrees of timing?


I tested the inside of the engine compartment and observed temps over 135+, who knows what the highest reading would be, well over 140+, engine coolant temps can exceed 200 degrees alone. That is why I agree with your statement about some air kits not really being cold air kits if they suck up this hot engine heat. The air is 20-30 degrees hotter going in at the beginning of the system from the get go.

I have a similar traction problem as well, but probably not as bad as you, hence why I have a stack of tires in my garage waiting.

I have never wanted my car to be a bonafide race car or anything of the like, just a fast street car. Out of all the kills I have had so far, and they add up quick now, none of them have occured from a stop light on. All of them have occured while driving down the street, highway, and someone will accelerate up next to me and want to play or I will do it to them and it's on.

I have not lost yet, no-one has even been competition, I do not car if I was at a 15 mph roll or going 40, or 65. I have plenty of low end torque, so much I have to feather my launches, and this tells me I can launch as fast as the next dude on the street or I'll stay too long spinning while he drives off. I even have to be careful about acceleration in second gear or my car will lose control. Mid to high range acceleration is simply scary!

I also have some mods to my car from Reinhart that I do not forget about, and they are good mods. The 3000 stall being the best. My mods also add to my overall experience. But I have driven MarauderTJA's Procharger car with 4:10's only. He uses only a smaller pulley as he does not have more power adders, and his car can only be described as a sling shot!

I have gained a lot of knowledge the last 2 years, and I know that I am only an amateur when it comes to cars, but I admit it.

[jstevens]

I have been vocal here about "cold air" kits that suck up hotter engine bay air

Sorry to disappoint you by my CAI has a shield and seal so "hot" engine air is not a problem.

Carry on.

[tmac1337]

I have been vocal here about "cold air" kits that suck up hotter engine bay air

Sorry to disappoint you by my CAI has a shield and seal so "hot" engine air is not a problem.

Carry on.

I have seen the K&N kit on a MM, the way it seals in to the hood liner and so forth, much better than other open filters I have seen, my previous open filter included. I would not put much stock into anything that partially shields a filter leaving portions not enclosed however. If your N/A, it is not a big deal.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Custom made, all alluminum. Tested yesterday 81 degrees outside.

At 40 MPH airbox temp was 85 degrees, engine bay compartment over 30 degrees hotter 115+.

At 70 MPH airbox temp 84 degrees, engine bay compartment 106+ degrees.

The slower the car is going, the engine bay compartment temp will climb higher and higher, I saw it over 135 while looking at the readout once, stopped.

Airbox temp. never exceeded over 5 degrees above outside ambient while moving. Never saw it above 90 while at a stop light.

Airbox utilizes the stock rubber fitting that extends to back of headlight from airbox (shortened). Also as there are 2 holes behind the headlight on the frame, another hole was cut and a 3" alluminum tube was extended back behind the headlight as well.

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s2.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s3.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s1.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s4.jpg
Looks real good Tim

[MarauderMark]

1 question with 2 parts..Is the airbox is included in the procharger kit if not what is the cost... :D

[tmac1337]

Looks real good Tim

Thanks Dennis. The tube coating and now the alluminum air box really makes this thing stand out at car shows now. I like your powder coating pattern also. If Mac's kit is similar to yours your AIT's must be really low as well.

[tmac1337]

1 question with 2 parts..Is the airbox is included in the procharger kit if not what is the cost... :D

Ask Maraudernkc the first question. I know that this box is going to be duplicated at least 2 more times next week.

It took over 4 hours to make this box. The business is a metal alloy custom welding and fabrication shop. A first one was made then ditched, the second is what you see. Being the first box, the owner was paid for material and labor. Now that the dimensions and measurements are known, the box can probably be replicated in an hour. Maraudernkc is working out the batch pricing with the owner now.

A box of this type is good for any blown car with an exposed filter, heat is the enemy. Any good shop can put something like this together.

[tmac1337]

The Procharger AIT is measured by a bung sensor located underneath the top intake tube as it enters the engine intake. This is the most accurate, after cooling has taken place.

Real temperature data is fed to the cars ECU. Having the car take temp data prior to the blower, where heat is made, and before cooling, at the MAF would not be accurate (use my kit for example).

Don't lie to the car's computer and it will pay you back with speed and performance!

[Bradley G]

Since the tube comes out of the side of the air box,does this exclude the other style of power adder?Or the box can be modifed ,for the hose to come out the back?

Very nicely done Gentlemen!:beer:
Bradley G

[SergntMac]

I have seen some kits recently at our car shows in S. FL. that do not have a AIT sensor mounted underneath the blower to get an accurate reading of the temp, but still are taking the reading from the MAF, before the blower, before the air is heated...On an air/water, with no sensor, if you cannot get an accurate reading the way the blower is setup, a tuner will have to estimate what the AIT will be based on other cars of that type he has tested. More heat means less timing can be run. That is why knowing your timing will give you an indication of how efficient the blower is. What do you think about 10.5 degrees of timing?
I'm still learning some things, Tim, however, I agree that higher IAT temps inhibit total timing, which in turn restrains overall performance potential. For any "tuner in training," this principle would be at the "Tuning 101" level, along with "Boyle's Law" explaining how compressed air heats up.

Kenny Brown built my 1x to be a "blow through" design. Kenny knew that supercharged air would be as much as 10x hotter than ambient air, and he installed the MAF to follow the supercharging process. Therefore, my IAT sensor measures air temp after it is supercharged, and cooled, and the EEC makes spark, fuel and timing decisions based on the air charge it gets. I feel this is as accurate as it can get, but there are other ways to accomplish the same end result. DR uses a "suck through" design, MAF before the blower, but with added sensors, which is likewise accurate IMHO. So, working your question from the answer back, A)colder air charge the better, and B) I would presume that the timing you ask about is the "safe" maximum axailable at the time, and 10.5 degrees of total timing would indicate that the air charge temp is higher than ideal and suffering from lack of efficient cooling. Of course, this can be improved with better air-to-air, or, water-to-air intercooling. How did I do?

I tested the inside of the engine compartment and observed temps over 135+, who knows what the highest reading would be, well over 140+, engine coolant temps can exceed 200 degrees alone. That is why I agree with your statement about some air kits not really being cold air kits if they suck up this hot engine heat. The air is 20-30 degrees hotter going in at the beginning of the system from the get go.
This is true, and it's more basic stuff, Tim. Anyone should understand that colder air is better. However, some may not know how easy it is to check their "cold air kit" performance. Anyone can "see" their IAT with a OBDII scan tool, if they want to verify that their "cold air induction" (CAI) is really working. The answer is waiting inside the EEC via the OBDII port, a mandated standard on all automobiles produced anywhere since 1996.

It's this simple. Monitor/measure your IAT with the OEM induction path in place, and drive as you normally drive day to day. Then install the "cold air kit" of choice, and measure again. Simple and easy before and after OBDII data will tell you if the CAI is working, and bu how much. If you don't like the outcome, send the CAI back for a refund, and try another kit. Moreover, considering the tuning 411 these devices produce, scan tools are an inexpensive "must have" IMHO. They are easy to use, and the learning curve is short and very quick. I suggest that any "club" of Marauder owners gathered together could throw a few bucks each into a hat, and buy one set of these to use as a group. Here's what I use to monitor my OBDII data, both live and "for the record."

For instant "live" stuff, this device delivers what's happening now.

www.scangauge.com

To capture and record up to 300 hours of drive time of the same data for download to a PC, along with read access to your "black box" history...

http://www.davisnet.com/drive/index.asp

I use both, Tim, depending on what I'm looking for, and how badly I need the data. Both will monitor 17 to 20 OBDII parameters, including IATs, and boost. These tools are inexpensive, and the 411 they deliver is priceless.


I have a similar traction problem as well, but probably not as bad as you, hence why I have a stack of tires in my garage waiting.
I posted ^ there that I was going to learn more about traction today, and I have. Zack and I took my KB 1x down to US. 41 Dragstrip today, installing his BFG drag radials in 275/35/18 for track testing. Outstanding results, 60' times of 1.725, 1.766, 1.771, and 1.808! I'm hooking about the best I can ask for, and I'm very pleased with my launch.

I posted in another thread here that there wasn't much available in drag radials that meets our unusual needs. The MM is a heavy car with launch problems all it's own, which increase as you build more power. The BFGs are a solution, but the size we tested requires a wider wheel. Zack and I both have a set of Lidio's 9.5 wide wheels, and his worked fine on my MM, but my next step is to test a set of BFGs in 265/35, which will use the stock 18X8 MM wheel. I'll keep you posted on developments.

BTW, congrats again on your air box design and success, looks like the real deal to me. How do you like being a "lab rat" for the Marauder community, Tim? I've had a lot of fun at it myself.

[tmac1337]

I like those scan tools Mac.

For the past 2 nights I have been driving my MM and data logging with a Diablosport Predator, which does the same things. The Predator has several different scan categories:

1: Acceleration WOT= Parameters for dyno tuning and WOT runs.
2: Drivability= Parameters viewed during drivability testing and monitoring.
3: Fuel= Related parameters.
4: Ignition
5: Speed Control
6: Transmission
7: Real time Streaming (live as you drive)
8: Log Play back (see live, play back later)

This thing plays back a log on the Predator screen or a home pc.

It has a couple hundred different parameters to test. So many that I not know what most of them are. Each individual parameter can be individually selected to monitor in multiple combinations.

[tmac1337]

Since the tube comes out of the side of the air box,does this exclude the other style of power adder?Or the box can be modifed ,for the hose to come out the back?

Very nicely done Gentlemen!:beer:
Bradley G

If your talking about a JLT or similar, it could be done for sure. There is more room to make the box taller, and longer back toward the wheel well. Both holes could be utilized in the frame behind the headlight as I have done for ambient air. A fabrication shop would have to custom make the first, duplicate the rest.

[MikesMerc]

In all honesty, there comes a point in building power with either style of supercharging, that the power becomes unmanageable and then, it's all a waste of time and money. Many of us here, myself included, have shared dreams of 500 or more HP at the wheels, but the truth behind the reality is that you can't do all that much with that kind of power on the street.


Sure you can. I'm running 473 RWHP/484 RWTQ (in street tune) on the street and I love it. Sure, it takes some good drag radials and some practice but I can pull of competition annihilating launches. In race tune, power is even better but its still very managable.

As any seasoned racer will tell you, there is NEVER too much power. Only chassis and traction issues or driver learning issues when power is high. The bottom line is that there is more to the story than just power numbers. But artificially limiting power instead of addressing the other issues is just pulling up short.

[SergntMac]

Sure you can. I'm running 473 RWHP/484 RWTQ (in street tune) on the street and I love it. Sure, it takes some good drag radials and some practice but I can pull of competition annihilating launches. In race tune, power is even better but its still very managable.

As any seasoned racer will tell you, there is NEVER too much power. Only chassis and traction issues or driver learning issues when power is high. The bottom line is that there is more to the story than just power numbers. But artificially limiting power instead of addressing the other issues is just pulling up short.
Nice to read your opinion here, Mike, but c'mon, let's keep this thread honest, K?

I agree, mostly, with you opinion. Yes, there can never be too much power, as long as a trained and experienced driver controls the wheel, and wheels. Do you have a family Mike? A wife? Have you shown her how to manage your power on the street as a daily driver?

For most of the owners logging in here, their Marauder is a dual purpose automobile, one that appeases a native desire to race (in one trim, or, another), and also spend some duty time in service as a family utility vehicle. For most here, tapping the power potential of a Marauder is an option, but driving their Marauder on the "4 squares" is not. Not for one of us, eh?

If you're willing to run drag radials as a full time tire, Mike, you have a valid point to be considered here. However, drag radials are not safe to drive on full time, so, let's keep this exchange limited to what is safe for the full time Marauder owner to drive on all year? Some times your family will be in the car with you?

My Pirelli P-Zero tires are "all season" tested and rated. Likewise the BFGs in KDW, KDWS and KDW2 construction. My Pirelli tires stick like glue, except in snow, which is due to a "size in snow" compromise all tires this size face, rather than a traction problem I can address. On dry surfaces and in the rain, even heavy rainfall, my Pirellis stick, until I over-torque them. Drag radials are...What?

"Drag radials" are basically tires delivered to the customer in a pre-worn out condition. Driving tires for the open road are produced with 11 to 12/32 of tread depth (depending on manfacturer). Drag radials are factory scuffed, or, shaved if you will, down to 5 to 6/32 of tread depth (depending on manfacturer) and by universal agreement, "bald" tires are any tire with less that 2/32 of tread depth. Therefore, when you buy (and drive on) a drag radial, it's closer to a bald tire, than not.

Is this really what you want to suggest to us, Mike? That closer to bald is okay on the streets full time? I hope not. I won't venture into tire compound, other than to say that most drag radials are produced with a compound that maximizes traction on dry, heated surfaces. Driving tires are not likewise surface sensitive. In fact, driving tires are routinely tested against all-year conditions, including mud, snow, rain, and dry surfaces. This is not the best compound to race on, but it is the better compound to drive on in daily use.

Are you sure we on the same page here, Mike?


I apologize Tim, this was distracting from your topic, and I should have not have entertained this discussion here.

[tmac1337]

My Pirelli P-Zero tires are "all season" tested and rated. Likewise the BFGs in KDW, KDWS and KDW2 construction.

I apologize Tim, this was distracting from your topic, and I should have not have entertained this discussion here.

I am not any authority on Drag Radials, but I do find the topic interesting. The next time the Sunshine State Marauders have a track day I will get some slips for my car, other than that I am not a big track guy. I have a stack of KDW2's in my garage, stock fronts, larger rears. That is as far as I intend to go as far as tires are concerned.

Like I said before, I want a fast street car. Some of the guys on this board are in to drag racing. And that's fine, drag radials apply to their interest. My interest is smoking people on the roads around my house in an unpredictable environment.

Hence why I have done all I can short of artificial cooling with intake sprays or 50 shot nitrous to cool my AIT.

The only other thing I could do would be to go to a three core intercooler, but I am not sold on that idea. I do not feel I am making enough boost, TQ, or HP to justify. One of the net forced induction web sites has data input field which tells you based on these factors which intercooler you need. After I input my HP and PSI, ect., it states "2 core intercooler, 3 not needed or necessary", and I believe it because it is a computer with no vested interest in lying to me.

And I still love my airbox!

[HwyCruiser]

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1835s3.jpg
I don't know about the advantages and disadvantages but that damn thing looks great!!!I like that alot better than home depot.. :D

Yeah, what he said. Good job Tim.

[MikesMerc]

Nice to read your opinion here, Mike, but c'mon, let's keep this thread honest, K?

I agree, mostly, with you opinion. Yes, there can never be too much power, as long as a trained and experienced driver controls the wheel, and wheels. Do you have a family Mike? A wife? Have you shown her how to manage your power on the street as a daily driver?

For most of the owners logging in here, their Marauder is a dual purpose automobile, one that appeases a native desire to race (in one trim, or, another), and also spend some duty time in service as a family utility vehicle. For most here, tapping the power potential of a Marauder is an option, but driving their Marauder on the "4 squares" is not. Not for one of us, eh?

If you're willing to run drag radials as a full time tire, Mike, you have a valid point to be considered here. However, drag radials are not safe to drive on full time, so, let's keep this exchange limited to what is safe for the full time Marauder owner to drive on all year? Some times your family will be in the car with you?

My Pirelli P-Zero tires are "all season" tested and rated. Likewise the BFGs in KDW, KDWS and KDW2 construction. My Pirelli tires stick like glue, except in snow, which is due to a "size in snow" compromise all tires this size face, rather than a traction problem I can address. On dry surfaces and in the rain, even heavy rainfall, my Pirellis stick, until I over-torque them. Drag radials are...What?

"Drag radials" are basically tires delivered to the customer in a pre-worn out condition. Driving tires for the open road are produced with 11 to 12/32 of tread depth (depending on manfacturer). Drag radials are factory scuffed, or, shaved if you will, down to 5 to 6/32 of tread depth (depending on manfacturer) and by universal agreement, "bald" tires are any tire with less that 2/32 of tread depth. Therefore, when you buy (and drive on) a drag radial, it's closer to a bald tire, than not.

Is this really what you want to suggest to us, Mike? That closer to bald is okay on the streets full time? I hope not. I won't venture into tire compound, other than to say that most drag radials are produced with a compound that maximizes traction on dry, heated surfaces. Driving tires are not likewise surface sensitive. In fact, driving tires are routinely tested against all-year conditions, including mud, snow, rain, and dry surfaces. This is not the best compound to race on, but it is the better compound to drive on in daily use.

Are you sure we on the same page here, Mike?



Not sure what page your on to be honest :confused:

However, throughout all that analysis on drag radials, you failed to acknowledge that a VERY large segment of the auto enthusiast crowd doesn't even drive their favorite performance car in inclement weather to begin with. And, although I cannot speak for everywhere in the country, I can certainly say that around here there are far more guys with hot performance cars that drive them only in good weather than those who drive them 24/7. Then again, this is the Motor City where performance is taken more seriously.

Unfortunately your original comment failed to address this aspect at all and simply stated that "the truth behind the reality is that you can't do all that much with that kind of power on the street". You didn't say anything depended on the weather and that your comment only applied to those daily driven guys. Therefore, my response was totally correct...500+ HP power can be, and is, made reliably and effectively on the street by lots of folks. Just because you, or others, may choose to run your car in rain, snow, or whatever doesn't mean that 500hp cars are unmanageable for everyone. And just because the thought of drag radials scares you, doesn't mean they are a bad choice for those who understand thier limitations. Accordingly, your blanket statement was just plain incorrect.

LOL...I'd love to live where you do Mac....a place where everyone is afraid of 500hp:D LOL...around here 650hp mustangs prowl the streets and eat 500 HP marauders for lunch. I guess you're lucky to live in such a watered down performance area:)

Edit - Also apologies for the off topic! As I said earlier in the thread...that's indeed a very nice airbox mod!

[MI2QWK4U]

And I still love my airbox!

As well you should, its a very nice product. Any chance of getting one donated to the product raffle for MVIII?

[MikesMerc]

By the way....im bumping the thread to the top for more exposure. TMAC, I appologize for being off topic, at least more people will see your fine product this way...

Now THIS is a good idea :beer: How a bout it tmac?

[tmac1337]

By the way....im bumping the thread to the top for more exposure. TMAC, I appologize for being off topic, at least more people will see your fine product this way...

No need to apologize. Hash out what you need to hash out. I think as long as people are respectful to each other, differences of opinion could be debated till everyone tires of the topic, that's what a forum such as this should exist for. Mac is a long time member of this site, is much more educated about cars than the average joe, and is very capable of defending his position as I know you and mike are.

I personally don't know that much about Drag Radials so I have no opinion.

[tmac1337]

As well you should, its a very nice product. Any chance of getting one donated to the product raffle for MVIII?

I personally have no problem donating anything for a raffle. But this box can only be utilized by a Procharger owner by it's design. Just as a custom chromed engraved Trilogy intake tube will mean nothing to only Trilogy owners.

I personally would like to see more Supercharger Raffles by any vendor. If the tickets were $50 or less, more people could enter a raffle more often.

The Sunshine State Marauders want to host the MMV4 in the Orlando area during next winter so people who can make it will have plenty of things to do around all the amusement parks too, and enjoy the FL sunshine for a nice warm vacation.

[tmac1337]

Now THIS is a good idea :beer: How a bout it tmac?

Beer is a good idea anytime! :D

[SergntMac]

LOL...I'd love to live where you do Mac....a place where everyone is afraid of 500hp. LOL...around here 650hp mustangs prowl the streets and eat 500 HP marauders for lunch. I guess you're lucky to live in such a watered down performance area.
Hehehe...It's become so typical of you, Mike, to ignore valid data and logical argument, and reduce the discussion at hand to provocative insult. You do this every time, and it's become quite obvious. Why not try posting responsible commentary yourself, rather than attempting to turn the discussion into a slap-fest.

I posted facts about drag radials, and they are facts you cannot dispute with passionate imagination about who may, or, may not drive their car in the rain. I am sure there are a dozen or more MM owners reading this thread who do drive in all seasons, and with family in the car, and still like to race on the weekends, for every owner of a garage queen with 500 HP at the wheels. Sharing 411 with them is more important to me than trading childish barbs with you. If you don't have any responsible comments to contribute that may be helpful to the average MM owner here, you're welcome to stand down.

[FordNut]

:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Hehehe...It's become so typical of you, Mike, to ignore valid data and logical argument, and reduce the discussion at hand to provocative insult. You do this every time, and it's become quite obvious. Why not try posting responsible commentary yourself, rather than attempting to turn the discussion into a slap-fest.

I posted facts about drag radials, and they are facts you cannot dispute with passionate imagination about who may, or, may not drive their car in the rain. I am sure there are a dozen or more MM owners reading this thread who do drive in all seasons, and with family in the car, and still like to race on the weekends, for every owner of a garage queen with 500 HP at the wheels. Sharing 411 with them is more important to me than trading childish barbs with you. If you don't have any responsible comments to contribute that may be helpful to the average MM owner here, you're welcome to stand down.

[MikesMerc]

Why not try posting responsible commentary yourself, rather than attempting to turn the discussion into a slap-fest.

Because all you ever do is ignore the valid content and twist the thread around to be about the poster instead of the content. Which, as usual, you did yet again right here.



I posted facts about drag radials, and they are facts you cannot dispute with passionate imagination about who may, or, may not drive their car in the rain. I am sure there are a dozen or more MM owners reading this thread who do drive in all seasons, and with family in the car, and still like to race on the weekends, for every owner of a garage queen with 500 HP at the wheels.

First off your "facts" about drag radials are wrong. Posting several long winded paragraphs droning on about drag radial tread depth adds little credibility to your post. But, your are in luck, Dave started another thread so that you can read up and learn something about them.

Second, posting several long winded paragraphs about drag radial tread depth adds nothing to support your incorrect blanket statement that "the truth behind the reality is that you can't do all that much with that kind of power on the street." For many enthusiasts this is indeed acheivable.

Third, your old tired style of ignoring the posts put in front of you and deflecting the topic of the thread to be something about ME isn't adding anything either.

I clearly put the facts in front of you:

Many folks DO indeed drive 500HP cars on the street successfully and safely.
There are indeed DOT approved daily drag radials out there.
Knowing the limitations of drag radials is part of the game.

You ignored all of this and instead decided to focus on my tongue-in-cheek comment in order to deflect from acknowledging what was clearly put in front of you. You know perfectly well that I know there are likely some very hot performance street vehicles in Chicagoland. You know they roam the street. Its obvious the commentary was tongue-in-cheek and was added to get you to admit that fact...but you chose to take it as a personal attack instead so you can ignore the obvious:(

Furthermore, although there may be many members here that want a docile all weather tire, there are also a good handful that are pushing the performance envelope. To give them false information as to the viability of running 500HP on the street is doing them a disservice. I suppose you don't care about them? Maybe when it comes to addressing those issues confronted by those that "push the envelope" you should be the one stepping down? Again, just because Drag Radials apparently intimidate you, that doesn't make them a bad choice for those 2%ers who do not share your conservative view.

Now, will you address these points directly, or just deflect yet again?

[MM03MOK]

We've strayed further and further off topic. Drag radial discussion >>> http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17601

[Bradley G]

Guy's-n-gals that put big hp to the ground, what other choice do they have?OEM size tires don't seem to offer nearly enough traction.As it appears, once the drag radials have lived half thier life,they are no longer safe in the rain, at highway speeds.
They do look bad azz!
Bradley G
,

[MikesMerc]

Guy's-n-gals that put big hp to the ground, what other choice do they have?OEM size tires don't seem to offer nearly enough traction.

My answer is on the thread Mary has indicated:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=243945&posted=1#post243945

No more off topic here.

[studio460]

Hey, tmac!!!

That airbox looks *****ING GREAT!!! And, it's functional, even better!. Truly, that's the sharpest-looking airbox I've seen. How ever we get them, I hope that maruadernkc follows through with your supplier and gets them made for those that want them. Whether they're included in the kit or offered separately, I don't care who we have to pay, I WANT ONE! Especially since you've already done all the hard work! That airbox REALLY "finishes" the Procharger kit with a lot of class and style. Well done, tmac!

[tmac1337]

Hey, tmac!!!

That airbox looks *****ING GREAT!!! And, it's functional, even better!. Truly, that's the sharpest-looking airbox I've seen. How ever we get them, I hope that maruadernkc follows through with your supplier and gets them made for those that want them. Whether they're included in the kit or offered separately, I don't care who we have to pay, I WANT ONE! Especially since you've already done all the hard work! That airbox REALLY "finishes" the Procharger kit with a lot of class and style. Well done, tmac!

Greg has already been in contact with the guy who made mine. He has arranged that additional boxes be made in small batches. I am stopping by the shop next week so mine can be looked at again, re-measured, to make sure the duplicates are correct.

[maraudernkc]

NBC, Tmac did a great job on that air box. It will be a upgrade to the kit. It will not make your car run any faster. But the Bling factor is a diffrent story.

It will retail for $199.00

Tims' newe handle is Blingmac!



Hey, tmac!!!

That airbox looks *****ING GREAT!!! And, it's functional, even better!. Truly, that's the sharpest-looking airbox I've seen. How ever we get them, I hope that maruadernkc follows through with your supplier and gets them made for those that want them. Whether they're included in the kit or offered separately, I don't care who we have to pay, I WANT ONE! Especially since you've already done all the hard work! That airbox REALLY "finishes" the Procharger kit with a lot of class and style. Well done, tmac!

[snowbird]

NBC, Tmac did a great job on that air box. It will be a upgrade to the kit. It will not make your car run any faster. But the Bling factor is a diffrent story.

It will retail for $199.00

Tims' newe handle is Blingmac!
Blingmac ?

You've got a PM !!