turbo 4 door in black

[merc]

Check this video out at the bottom of the page. Hope someone makes a turbo kit for the marauder like this one.

Weight 6055 pounds, wow.

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/article.phtml?ak=213

[Bradley G]

Those big rigs are sick!:D

Bradley G

[MarauderMark]

That is one totally bad a$$ , hooked up Caddy..:up:

[BK_GrandMarquis]

OMG!!! :burnout: :awe: Wait till he pulls up to a Magnum. ;) Does that have a Hemi?

[Gunslinger]

Thats impressive

[bigslim]

Check this video out at the bottom of the page. Hope someone makes a turbo kit for the marauder like this one.

Weight 6055 pounds, wow.

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/article.phtml?ak=213
This place is having an "Open House" there this Saturday the 7th. It is from 10:00am to 3:00pm. I will be going there. It was rescheduled from last week due to weather.

[Sully008]

:awe: :awe: Holy crap! Imagine if they lost the bling bling wheels and stuck slicks on those suckers. That's just impressive right there.

[David Morton]

Check this video out at the bottom of the page. Hope someone makes a turbo kit for the marauder like this one. Someone does make a turbo kit for us. (click here to see the site) (http://66.70.20.245/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=78)

Everybody here is so pumped about bottom end torque I can't get any open minded discussion about turbochargers and the new technology available, but I understand a few vendors might be a bit touchy about folks talking about alternatives to belt-driven superchargers, plus if you've spent $5000+ putting a supercharger on your car, any talk about turbochargers tends to make you get defensive.

Looks like I might just be the first one here to get a turbocharger and live to tell about it. My experience with the Buick Grand National (I used to work for a Buick dealership and have driven them before) leads me to believe the higher rpm torque advantage of turbochargers wll get me a lower ETs and much faster trap speeds.

Don't get me wrong. If you want street driveability and gobs of bottom end torque for 1/8th mile, light-to-light, tire smoking wins against those Mustangs and Corvettes, a supercharger is probably the way to go. But I want the lowest 1/4 mile times at the dragstrip where I do my racing, so I'm probably gonna do the turbo. I'll keep you guys posted.

[MENINBLK]

Someone does make a turbo kit for us. (click here to see the site) (http://66.70.20.245/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=78)

Everybody here is so pumped about bottom end torque I can't get any open minded discussion about turbochargers and the new technology available, but I understand a few vendors might be a bit touchy about folks talking about alternatives to belt-driven superchargers, plus if you've spent $5000+ putting a supercharger on your car, any talk about turbochargers tends to make you get defensive.

Dave,

I've been looking into a Turbo System, and if I can remember where I heard of it,
someone is making a Turbo system that instead of the wastegate
dumping compressed air back into the atmosphere every time you
take your foot off the throttle, it actually diverts it back into the intake
either before the turbo or before the intercooler,
to recycle the compressed air and not lose the momentum created in the turbine.
The end result is almost NO LAG, and a very responsive Turbo system overall.

[blackf0rk]

Dave,

I've been looking into a Turbo System, and if I can remember where I heard of it,
someone is making a Turbo system that instead of the wastegate
dumping compressed air back into the atmosphere every time you
take your foot off the throttle, it actually diverts it back into the intake
either before the turbo or before the intercooler,
to recycle the compressed air and not lose the momentum created in the turbine.
The end result is almost NO LAG, and a very responsive Turbo system overall.
There isn't a 'system' that needs to be developed. You can do it on any turbo system. All it requires is a certain type of blowoff valve that has a nipple [WATCH IT!] or straight end on it to attach a hose. And of course you route the hose back into the system - preferably before the intercooler; to be cooled again.

Most BOV's (Blow Off Valves) blow straight out into the air, so some have what looks like a horn on the BOV's side. Other do not have anything - just slits around the entire BOV. A recycled dump BOV will have what looks like that horn on the side, but instead of it being curled, it will be engineered to accept a hose fitting.

[Bradley G]

Thanks David,
Looks like the numbers are in line with the other choices.
Please keep us posted on your progress.
Bradley G

[Warpath]

I took my Cobra to Livernois Motorsports for a tune and they gave it back to me with a couple of cracked pistons (after taking over 3 months to do it). They didn't tell me they cracked them. They hoped I didn't notice. I have heard similar stories from friends. I would strongly suggest not dealing with them and sticking with the vendors advertising here (particularly Lidio).

I have not heard anything bad about Detroit Speekworks. Livernois has some sort of business deal with them.

[Todd]

There isn't a 'system' that needs to be developed. You can do it on any turbo system. All it requires is a certain type of blowoff valve that has a nipple [WATCH IT!] or straight end on it to attach a hose. And of course you route the hose back into the system - preferably before the intercooler; to be cooled again.

Most BOV's (Blow Off Valves) blow straight out into the air, so some have what looks like a horn on the BOV's side. Other do not have anything - just slits around the entire BOV. A recycled dump BOV will have what looks like that horn on the side, but instead of it being curled, it will be engineered to accept a hose fitting.He might not know the difference between a wastegate and bypass/blow off valve....

For those who dont know, the wastegate vents the exhaust gasses just before the turbo to slow down the compressor wheel which in turn regulates how much boost you are producing. It basically regulates the speed of the compressor wheel to keep you at your preset boost level. It would be slammed shut (not venting a thing) to get into boost sooner and then based on what type of boost controller you are using (if any) would either slowly open before the preset boost level is achieved or would open very quickly just before so you achieve your preset boost sooner which is the case with a electronic boost controller.

Whereas the bypass valve is in the intake tract after the turbo. When it sees a overboost situation (such as when you are in boost then let off the throttle, shift gears, etc...) it releases either into atmosphere which would be called a 'blow off valve' or recirculates it back into the intake tract, usually just after the turbo, to allow the compressor wheel to continue spinning and not have backpressure from the closed throttle body slow or stop the turbo from spinning. Unless you are doing a 'blow through setup', which is where the mass air is in the intake tract instead of before the turbo, you would have to recirculate the air back into the system after the mass air. Otherwise you are venting metered air and would cause a rich condition...

[David Morton]

There isn't a 'system' that needs to be developed. You can do it on any turbo system. All it requires is a certain type of blowoff valve that has a nipple [WATCH IT!] or straight end on it to attach a hose. And of course you route the hose back into the system - preferably before the intercooler; to be cooled again.

Most BOV's (Blow Off Valves) blow straight out into the air, so some have what looks like a horn on the BOV's side. Other do not have anything - just slits around the entire BOV. A recycled dump BOV will have what looks like that horn on the side, but instead of it being curled, it will be engineered to accept a hose fitting.Let me interject some clarity into the waste-gate/blow-off/by-pass valve talk. It's not hard to get confused. This is what I know. Anybody correct me if I'm wrong as I am human too.

A waste-gate limits boost from the turbine side. When boost reaches a certain value, (often preset but some racing apps have adjustable ones) a "gate" starts to open in the exhaust plumbing to let some go straight to the pipes and not through the turbine, aka "wasting" a portion of the exhaust gases, hence the name waste gate. All turbocharger systems have a waste gate.

Blow-off and by-pass valves manage already boosted gas from the compressor side to minimize the infamous turbo-lag, often exaggerated and always bad-mouthed by the supercharger sellers and drivers.

A blow-off valve (Gale Banks calls his a shuttle valve) is mostly used on systems that don't use mass air flow calculations for air/fuel management because they simply blow off the already compressed air which keeps the turbocharger spooled up all the time and the waste-gate closed as much as possible. For our cars this type of boost management would require a seperate computer and a different air/fuel management scheme. This type of valve totally eliminates turbo lag. Superchargers have nothing on this type system as they are just as good at making bottom-end torque as the famous GMC 6-71 blower everybody is familiar with seeing on the top fuel dragsters of old. Most, if not all drag racers running turbos use it.

The by-pass valve is what the supercharger guys are using and is what the Pro Turbo Kits system uses. This just recycles the already MAF sensor measured air back into the compressor. From what I've been told this helps driveability but is less efficient at lessening turbo lag.

Hopefully this summer, I'll find out. :D

[blackf0rk]

Excellent explanation! :)

[Joe Walsh]

Very Impressive!!!! :bows: :bows:

Moving THAT much weight THAT fast makes the Marauder seem like a lightweight Mustang!!

I would LOVE to Turbo my Marauder and would prefer this type of S/C over all others, BUT I believe the big problem with the Marauder is getting the (spent/post turbo) exhaust pipes past the BIG aluminum front crossmember and out the back...

[SergntMac]

The by-pass valve is what the supercharger guys are using and is what the Pro Turbo Kits system uses. This just recycles the already MAF sensor measured air back into the compressor. From what I've been told this helps driveability but is less efficient at lessening turbo lag.
I'm not disagreeing with you, David, just adding some 411 to the above. For centrifugal type superchargers, there is a choice in MAF's location.

In a "blow through" design, the MAF is between the blower and the throttle body, and the blow off valve (aka pop-off valve) vents supercharged air to the atmosphere when you get out of the throttle. This is the design Kenny Brown uses on the Vortech powered Marauder S.

Reinhart's Vortech kit uses the "suck through" design, which places the MAF before the blower, and the blow off valve recirculates the excess air back into the induction path, between the MAF and the blower.

The chief difference here, is when the air itself gets metered by the MAF, and there is some discussion on which design provides better performance. Frankly, I believe the suck-through will enhance performance over the blow-through, though I haven't any data to support that.

Sorry for the interruption, please return to your regular programming...

[Todd]

I'm not disagreeing with you, David, just adding some 411 to the above. For centrifugal type superchargers, there is a choice in MAF's location.

In a "blow through" design, the MAF is between the blower and the throttle body, and the blow off valve (aka pop-off valve) vents supercharged air to the atmosphere when you get out of the throttle. This is the design Kenny Brown uses on the Vortech powered Marauder S.

Reinhart's Vortech kit uses the "suck through" design, which places the MAF before the blower, and the blow off valve recirculates the excess air back into the induction path, between the MAF and the blower.

The chief difference here, is when the air itself gets metered by the MAF, and there is some discussion on which design provides better performance. Frankly, I believe the suck-through will enhance performance over the blow-through, though I haven't any data to support that.

Sorry for the interruption, please return to your regular programming...

There is no discernable performance gain for a blow through or draw through design. I know guys with both on turbo applications. Blow through are a little harder to tune but may give the computer a more accurate view of the air coming into the motor. With tuning both are basically equal....

But to add a caviat to this.... I would NOT doa blow through dsign unless I was using a Pro-M Univer mass air. And sense Pro-m is all but out of business it is tough (at least right now) to get a Univer calibrated to the injectors you are using and in the size I want. So I will be going draw through on my forced induction setup.

[David Morton]

I love this site, the guys coming through with lots of new information, all to get the knowledge out there to hopefully help one guy go faster a different way.

I had originally planned on doing a blow-through design so the blow-off type valve could be used, filter-compressor-valve-MAF-throttle, but was told (by a guy that should know since he's selling them) that MAF sensors don't do well blowing through. His system uses the Lightning MAF, which is supposed to be pretty good, and they've tested the thing pretty well so I figure it's best to listen and go with his experience.

[Todd]

I love this site, the guys coming through with lots of new information, all to get the knowledge out there to hopefully help one guy go faster a different way.

I had originally planned on doing a blow-through design so the blow-off type valve could be used, filter-compressor-valve-MAF-throttle, but was told (by a guy that should know since he's selling them) that MAF sensors don't do well blowing through. His system uses the Lightning MAF, which is supposed to be pretty good, and they've tested the thing pretty well so I figure it's best to listen and go with his experience.
Yea David, dont do it unless you can hunt down a Univer. But it will be tough as I have been looking for a little while and cant find one calibrated to the injector size I will be using.

I know a few people that tried blow through WITHOUT using a Univer and had lots of problems... I know a guy right now driving a 2001 GT with a PTK kit and a Pro-M Univer and drives it daily. Runs great with NO driveability issues...


PS The reason why the Pro-M Univer worked and nothing else really did is that the Univer has/had a sampling 'tube' that runs the entire circumference of the meter... Whereas other meters only have the one sampling area (on top where the electronics are...).

[SergntMac]

Okay, I'm going to jump back in here a second. I know you guys are talking turbo charging, and I don't know beans about that. But, I just want to keep my 411 straight, thanks for your help.

The Kenny Brown supercharger setup is blow through, and I've had no problems tuning the stock 80mm MAF through 455 RWHP. Neither have I heard of anyone else having a significant problem, other than oil contamination from the blower, a natural byproduct. However, the blow through design with the stock MAF is limited in performance potential. Should you want to kick things up a notch, you'll have to go to the larger 90mm. I found this out while tuning after my engine and blower upgrade (9:1 compression, T trim Vortech, 15# boost).

Pro-M is out of business, wasn't that reliable of a product anyway. I couldn't use the Ford Racing Lightning 90mm due to MM/Lightning wire harness complications, so, I used the SCT "Big Air" 90mm, and it worked perfect. This is a mod many MM owners should consider, it rocks. I'm still using the blow through design, against advice from someone who knows better, Zack.

For two years now, Zack and I have been running together, with basically the same mods to our MMs. Before I rebuilt my engine, mechanically we were twins, except he uses Reinhart's suck through design with a Lightning 90mm MAF in the right fenderwell. I don't have any data, just a lot of experience with Zack, and for sure, the suck through makes him .5 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile, and adds as much as 7 MPH to his trap speed. At the stop light I kick his azz everytime, because he goes up in smoke worse that I do. Not a scientific study, but surely real world fact.

If I have misubnderstood your exchange up to this point, I apologize. Carry on...

[Todd]

I didnt know the Kenny Brown cars were blow through. When I was talking with Mr Brown and his salemen (dont remember name) while at his shop when I was up there for the PRI show I didnt even really look at the system... Guess I should have.

You are the exception to the rule if you swapped to another meter in a blow through system and had no issues..... Everyone I know or have heard of trying to go blow through with any meter other than a Univer had complications getting A/F and driveability correct. Unless you have a sufficient length of straight tube in front of the meter in a blow through system you will REALLY have problems. I cant recall the length but I thought it was somewhere in the 14inch to 18inch range. But I dont know and just going by memory.

And as far as your friend making more power than you from running a draw through design, it wasnt the draw through system that did it. There are inherent power differences in any car. Unless you dynoed the same car with both a blow through and draw through system you cant tell which makes the power. (which you may have so correct me if I am assuming incorrectly)

And if you did that I can guarantee you will have to trial and error tune the blow through system for proper clocking of the meter.

But your points are noted.... Personal experience is better than heresay anytime.


PS I'll be using the SCT Big Air meter on my setup also. Heard good things about it.





Okay, I'm going to jump back in here a second. I know you guys are talking turbo charging, and I don't know beans about that. But, I just want to keep my 411 straight, thanks for your help.

The Kenny Brown supercharger setup is blow through, and I've had no problems tuning the stock 80mm MAF through 455 RWHP. Neither have I heard of anyone else having a significant problem, other than oil contamination from the blower, a natural byproduct. However, the blow through design with the stock MAF is limited in performance potential. Should you want to kick things up a notch, you'll have to go to the larger 90mm. I found this out while tuning after my engine and blower upgrade (9:1 compression, T trim Vortech, 15# boost).

Pro-M is out of business, wasn't that reliable of a product anyway. I couldn't use the Ford Racing Lightning 90mm due to MM/Lightning wire harness complications, so, I used the SCT "Big Air" 90mm, and it worked perfect. This is a mod many MM owners should consider, it rocks. I'm still using the blow through design, against advice from someone who knows better, Zack.

For two years now, Zack and I have been running together, with basically the same mods to our MMs. Before I rebuilt my engine, mechanically we were twins, except he uses Reinhart's suck through design with a Lightning 90mm MAF in the right fenderwell. I don't have any data, just a lot of experience with Zack, and for sure, the suck through makes him .5 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile, and adds as much as 7 MPH to his trap speed. At the stop light I kick his azz everytime, because he goes up in smoke worse that I do. Not a scientific study, but surely real world fact.

If I have misubnderstood your exchange up to this point, I apologize. Carry on...

[SergntMac]

You are the exception to the rule if you swapped to another meter in a blow through system and had no issues..... Everyone I know or have heard of trying to go blow through with any meter other than a Univer had complications getting A/F and driveability correct. Unless you have a sufficient length of straight tube in front of the meter in a blow through system you will REALLY have problems. I cant recall the length but I thought it was somewhere in the 14inch to 18inch range.
Here's a pic of my induction path, from the intercooler to the bellows. The extension appears about 4" long. This pic is with the OEM 80mm in place, the SCT 90mm sits here today.

We didn't have issues, Todd, it was worse than that. No base SCT file to work with, seems I was the first to add a "Big Air" MAF to a blow through setup. So, write one we did, and with 50 some Kenny Brown cars on the street, it's possible there will be a few more blow through/SCT Big Air combinations. Mine runs so smoothly, I'm sure other KB owners here will be interested in this upgrade in MAF.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5753&cat=500&page=1


And as far as your friend making more power than you from running a draw through design, it wasnt the draw through system that did it. There are inherent power differences in any car. Unless you dynoed the same car with both a blow through and draw through system you cant tell which makes the power. And if you did that I can guarantee you will have to trial and error tune the blow through system for proper clocking of the meter. I'll be using the SCT Big Air meter on my setup also. Heard good things about it.
You should be hearing more great things about it, it's very easy to work with.

We never tried to switch things around on one car, but we were mechanically identical, except for MAF location. Same tunes, same tuner (Jerry W.) and Zack always came out on top. 476 RWHP, 425 RWTQ, and I topped out at 455 RWHP, 399 RWTQ. Today I'm at 478 RWHP, 434 RWTQ, and I never broke through the 400 RWTQ barrier until I went to the Big Air MAF. After we setup an SCT file, we did have one issue with turbulence, which was cured by rotating the MAF 45 degrees to move the tonsil to a horizontal position. That cured it, been running great since, consistent 12.4x in the 1320.

Good luck with your Big Air upgrade, you'll love it.

[Todd]

Thats great man... Obviously it took work but you got it right it sounds like.... Others with your setup will benefit from your hard work. At least as long as they can get the file as well from Jerry or whoever.

PM sent with a offline question...




Here's a pic of my induction path, from the intercooler to the bellows. The extension appears about 4" long. This pic is with the OEM 80mm in place, the SCT 90mm sits here today.

We didn't have issues, Todd, it was worse than that. No base SCT file to work with, seems I was the first to add a "Big Air" MAF to a blow through setup. So, write one we did, and with 50 some Kenny Brown cars on the street, it's possible there will be a few more blow through/SCT Big Air combinations. Mine runs so smoothly, I'm sure other KB owners here will be interested in this upgrade in MAF.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5753&cat=500&page=1


You should be hearing more great things about it, it's very easy to work with.

We never tried to switch things around on one car, but we were mechanically identical, except for MAF location. Same tunes, same tuner (Jerry W.) and Zack always came out on top. 476 RWHP, 425 RWTQ, and I topped out at 455 RWHP, 399 RWTQ. Today I'm at 478 RWHP, 434 RWTQ, and I never broke through the 400 RWTQ barrier until I went to the Big Air MAF. After we setup an SCT file, we did have one issue with turbulence, which was cured by rotating the MAF 45 degrees to move the tonsil to a horizontal position. That cured it, been running great since, consistent 12.4x in the 1320.

Good luck with your Big Air upgrade, you'll love it.

[Warpath]

...Pro-M is out of business, wasn't that reliable of a product anyway...

What makes you say that? Many a Mustanger loved Pro-M and I have only heard good things about them. fordchip.com recommended Pro-M or Ford MAFs only.