How are the S/C guys launching at the track?

[sailsmen]

I went to the track last nite, and for a launch I could only roll onto the accelerator with the KDW-2 255's, using lite burn out and 25 psi. Any thing more than 1/3 throttle and it just obliterated the tires.

My best 60' was only 1.881.

How are the S/C guys launching, what tires, burn out and psi?

( track details http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18149 )

[BillyGman]

I don't load up the torque converter at all. I just let it idle, and then punch it all at once, and with the P305/45/18 Nitto drag radials, the car just plain goes (1.6 second 60' times and 4.9 second 330' times are pretty consistent). As long as I get the brurnout into second gear, and lower the rear tire pressure down to 17-22 PSI, those are the results I get.

[FordNut]

I don't load up the torque converter at all. I just let it idle, and then punch it all at once, and with the P305/45/18 Nitto drag radials, the car just plain goes (1.6 second 60' times and 4.9 second 330' times are pretty consistent). As long as I get the brurnout into second gear, and lower the rear tire pressure down to 17-22 PSI, those are the results I get.
I'm not blown (yet) but I've also observed the major affect of a good burnout. Burn it 'til it goes to 2nd gear, then some. They stick lots better.

[BillyGman]

I'm not blown (yet) but I've also observed the major affect of a good burnout. Burn it 'til it goes to 2nd gear, then some. They stick lots better.Absolutley FN. First gear simply doesn't get the tires spinning fast enough to heat em up good. I learned that a long time ago from horsing around on the street doing burnouts.:D U gotta get into second gear with the pre-race brurnout, and if you want to do a burnout video, you have to get into 3rd gear with it, but, uhmm, well, that's another topic........

[Rider90]

I thought doing burn outs on street tires makes them more slippery? verses slicks which makes them soft and sticky...

keyword: thought

[BillyGman]

I thought doing burn outs on street tires makes them more slippery? verses slicks which makes them soft and sticky...

keyword: thoughtI have Drag radials, and they definately benefit from a burnout traction wise. Heating up standard radial tires won't do much at all though. So you're right about that.

[merc]

I thought doing burn outs on street tires makes them more slippery? verses slicks which makes them soft and sticky...

keyword: thought

This is how I get down on street tires in pre-launch. I consistently turn 2.0 sixty foot times and with cool air dip into the 1.9's without the blender or hair dryer.

:burnout:

Deep into the 1 & 2 on O.E BF's

[FordNut]

I thought doing burn outs on street tires makes them more slippery? verses slicks which makes them soft and sticky...

keyword: thought
I've heard that too, but it hasn't been my experience. Short burnout to clean the tires, preload to 1500rpm, spin off the line. Good burnout, preload to 2200rpm, killer launch, 1.9 sec 60' times N/A.

This technique won't work with a blower. Preload and go up in smoke!

[BillyGman]

Sailsmen, since your car is now supercharged, you'll always get poor traction off the line as long as you race with standard radial tires. You need to get drag radials if you want to hook up. There are trade-offs with all types of tires when going from street driving to the track, and that's all there is to it. You just can't have it all. As long as you stay with those standard radials, your 60' times will be lousy with a supercharged car regardless of what your technique is, and regardless of what type of supercharger you have.

Some people think that with a centrifugal supercharger you won't need drag radials to avoid tirespin off the starting line. You can throw that theory out the window as soon as you remove the 3.55 gears and go with 3.70's or 4.10's, and increase the stock stall speed. And with many centrifugal set-ups, if you remain with the 3.55 gears, and with the stock stall speed, your 60' times will still be unimpressive since you just won't have enough acceleration off the line.

No, I'm not knocking your car, I'm just trying to dispel some misconceptions that some people have, and explain to people that you cannot have it all. There are always trade-offs.

[Smokie]

I also have the KDW2's and since they don't give them away....no burnouts period...of course that would explain my crappy 60' times of 2.1

[merc]

No, I'm not knocking your car, I'm just trying to dispel some misconceptions that some people have, and explain to people that you cannot have it all. There are always trade-offs.


This is the eventh commandment Billy, you are the man :2thumbs:

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour's car.

10. Thou shalt not covet any thing that is thy neighbour's car.

11. Thou stay with those standard radials, your 60' times will be lousy with a supercharged car regardless of what your technique is, and regardless of what type of supercharger you have.

[BillyGman]

This is the eventh commandment Billy, you are the man :2thumbs:

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour's car.

10. Thou shalt not covet any thing that is thy neighbour's car.

11. Thou stay with those standard radials, your 60' times will be lousy with a supercharged car regardless of what your technique is, and regardless of what type of supercharger you have.Uh Ho......I'm not meaning to get overly serious here, and I'm glad that you see the truth in my statements(thanks), but it scares me when people put my words on the same level with my God's :eek: :hide: ...let's get back to drag radials, and 60' times.......

[MikesMerc]

Drag radials are a requirement for good 60 ft times at the track with a blown MM. Ditto pretty much everything Billy has said. Drag radials, a solid burnout, and 18 psi works for me.

[merc]

I believe this question has been answered several times by you (Billy)Drag Radial and 500 + RWHP and Street Driving (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17601&highlight=drag+wheels) and others. What we have not covered is a four-wheel race solution that includes bias tires. Mac has stated that pushing radials with slicks could be tricky. So what do we as Marauders do up front. It's easy to attend a track event and see massive hole shots, but how does that translate to our cars? What you soon find is that there is must more to the game then tires. Factory axles and limited slip start playing a role also.

:pimp:

[RoyLPita]

I thought doing burn outs on street tires makes them more slippery? verses slicks which makes them soft and sticky...

keyword: thought

On the contrary, The tires actually grip better after a burnout. Believe me, top fuelers don't do burnouts just for show (well maybe). A good example of this theory is the stuff that your tires pick up after a nice burnout. Try it, you'll see.

[BillyGman]

I believe this question has been answered several times by you (Billy)Drag Radial and 500 + RWHP and Street Driving (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17601&highlight=drag+wheels) and others. What we have not covered is a four-wheel race solution that includes bias tires. Mac has stated that pushing radials with slicks could be tricky. So what do we as Marauders do up front. It's easy to attend a track event and see massive hole shots, but how does that translate to our cars? What you soon find is that there is must more to the game then tires. Factory axles and limited slip start playing a role also.

:pimp:The problem with what you're saying is that MAC's experience with SLICKS has NOTHING to do with drag RADIALS. Because they are still RADIAL tires. I haven't any stability issues on the highway, nor on the corners with the Nitto drag radials, nor at the track. Ofcourse they're not going to enable you to throw your 4,200 LB car around a hairpin turn at the maximum speeds that a standard radial tire will, but standard radial tires will not enable a supercharged Marauder to hook-up off the line either, and that falls under my "trade-offs" statement. BTW, have you ever had Drag radials on your Marauder? Don't knock it until you try it. How can you argue until you've tried them? I can tell by your statements that you haven't.

And BTW, if your car isn't supercharged, then your situation hasn't anything to do with what Sailsmen has inquired about here which started this thread, since HIS car IS SUPERCHARGED. IF you ever get behind the wheel of a supercharged Marauder and try to race it at the dragstrip on standard radial tires instead of on drag radials you'll understand what I'm talking about.

You're NOT going to find any tire anywhere that will enable a supercharged Marauder to get decent traction off the line in a drag race, while at the same time allow that same car to handle outstanding around the twisties in a circle track race, or in a roadcourse race. If that were the case, then successful drag racers would routinely use the same tires as successful roadcourse racers do. Not going to happen. You just cannot have it all. And you have to face it. So you have to choose what your priority will be. Again, my statements are about DRAGRACING supercharged Marauders since that's what Sailsmen's question was about. Not about circle track and roadcourse racing.

If you try and purchase a tire that's a "jack of all trades", then when you mount that tire on a supercharged Marauder, it will then become a "Master of NONE", and instead of having the "best of both worlds" you'll end up with the worst of both worlds.You just can't get around that. If you think that you can with a supercharged Marauder, then I'll be glad to meet you at the track with your supercharged Marauder equipped with standard radial tires. But if that's the case, then you'll have to bring your $$ with you if I'll have to travel outside of the Tri-state area (NY,NJ,CT).

[nomad]

OTHER than drag radials, what's the best/widest STREET tire somebody can run on stock rims? Something with good traction and handling capabilities?
You know, good on the highway, yet acceptable for the occasional drag racer.

[FordNut]

OTHER than drag radials, what's the best/widest STREET tire somebody can run on stock rims? Something with good traction and handling capabilities?
You know, good on the highway, yet acceptable for the occasional drag racer.
Best option is widened rear rims with Nitto (not the drag radials) or Goodyear Eagle F1 in 295/45-18. But neither of them has a matching front in the OEM front size. Just not much out there with the stock rear tire height. With stock rim width the KDW2 appears to be a good option. If you deviate much from OEM on tire size the ABS light comes on.

[sailsmen]

Thanks for all the 411.

I think BillyG best summed it up when he said you cannot have it all.

Eventually, ( when I save up the mullah ) I will have to get some drag radials to run at the track.

In the mean time it is a challenge to effectively launch the car w/o tire spin. This is a challenge combined w/ a sub .200 R/T that I will conquer.

Imagine if I could get a sub 1.8 60' time on the KDW-2 255's! :D

Theres not much I can do about the challenge of the tire spin on the 1-2 shift.

[FordNut]

Not meant as a flame, but my $.02 worth...



Maximum tire size on the front is 255/45, I know this from experiment. I tried 255/50 to confirm fit for a test, and they rubbed on lock to lock turns. I backed the size down to 255/45, no rub anywhere. BTW, maximum tire size for our 18X8 stock wheel is 255 wide.

I've seen a few running this size on the front, it is the same height as the OEM size but a little wider. It is available in the Nitto 555



305 is too wide a tire for 9.5" wide rims, 295 wide is the max. With the 305 tire, tread meant to contact the ground will wrap around to the sidewall and not contact the ground, so, any "extra wide means more contact" is not really taking place. The tire ends up not square with the ground and you're paying for tire you're not using, and expecting adhesion you will never feel. There are plenty of pics of this tire size/wheel combination available here, take a peek for yourself?

So...There's your reasonable limits to tires, IMHO. Furthermore, I do not feel use of spacers is responsible when driving the car in performance situations. It's cool for display and routine travel, maybe okay in drag racing too, as long as you have paid proper attention to lug nut travel depth and torque. But, spacers are not okay if your into road racing, autocross, or, enjoying some serious highway twisties. The flex will shear the lugs "like a boot camp haircut."

I agree with the spacers being bad, much better to get the QA1 shocks for more clearance.

I agree that the 305 tires are at the limit of accepatble sizes for the 9.5" wide rims. They are not out of spec, see the data I added from the Nitto website. They appear to be bulged out at the sidewalls more than one would like, but they have a different rubber compound, so even if there is a little less contact patch, they still have superior traction for DRAG RACING. I still would not personally run them on the street. They won't last long and they're pretty expensive.



255/45 series tires use 8 to 10" rims
255/50 series tires use 6.5 to 10" rims
285/45 series tires use 9 to 11" rims
295/45 series tires use 10 to 12" rims
285/50 series tires use 7.5 to 11" rims
295/50 series tires use 7.5 to 11" rims
No listing for the 305/45, do the math?
315/45 series tires use 10-12" rims

Directly from nittotire.com
tire.......................NT 555 R.....................NT 555
size...................305/45 R18 110V.........295/45 ZR18 112W
tread depth..............6.3........ ..................10.8
inflated overall dia.....28.78................. ......28.31
overall width............12.05........ ...............11.54
approved rim width...9.5-(10.0)-11.5.........9.5-(10.0)-11.0
max load/press.........2337@44......... .........2469@50
revs per mile.............722.......... ...............734

Looks like a 9.5 is at the bottom of acceptable rim width for both sizes.

[FordNut]

Theres not much I can do about the challenge of the tire spin on the 1-2 shift.
That's the question I would like to hear an answer to. A good running N/A car will bark the tires at the 1-2 shift, a blown car will set them on fire!

[nomad]

Good posts Sarge and Brian,thank you.
I guess I was hoping somebody had stumbled onto the "holy grail" of tires for our stock rims.I happen to like the "sleeper" look when I pick my targets.
Before anybody gets the wrong idea, I have seen the widened rims,both on our cars and at Lidio's shop,they are really NICE. Just not for me.
Oh well,I do need new tires so back to my research.Maybe I can learn how to ease into the powerband? Again,thanks.
John Easton

[89lxbill]

Just as a reference. 265-40-18 BFG Drag radials. 17lbs of air pressure. Launching at 1000-1100 rpm. 1.75-1.80 60ft. Depending on the weather. They will fit on the stock rims, but will make the ABS light come on. Bill (who owns the car) bought a spare set of rims just for the track, so only to and from the track is the light on. Note, this is a Vortech car with a 3000 stall convertor. Boost comes on later, unlike an Eaton, so tire pressures may be different. But like others said, running on the stock radials is a pedal issue at best.

[MarauderMark]

For whatever it's worth when i ran my 12.1 it was on the stock rims and tires .it was about 45 degrees outside and went throught the water and i smoked the tires for about 15 seconds .went up and put the rpms @ about 2k or somewhere about that (sorry i suffer from CRS) let go of the brake and pushed the pedal threw the floor with no tire spin at all and held it there untill i passed the time sign...:burn: :nono:

I may need something different when i get it back.But i'll go across that bridge once i get to it..

[BUCKWHEAT]

Best option is widened rear rims with Nitto (not the drag radials) or Goodyear Eagle F1 in 295/45-18. But neither of them has a matching front in the OEM front size. Just not much out there with the stock rear tire height. With stock rim width the KDW2 appears to be a good option. If you deviate much from OEM on tire size the ABS light comes on.


I have to agree with fordnut. I'v got the 295 eagles on the back with widened rims and a trilogy. the wife doesn't even break them loose. they are really grippy on the street cold.

I did buy eagle f-1's for the front in the stock size. they have a different tread design fom the rears. haven't mounted them yet however.

regards to all.

[BillyGman]

As far as Nitto P305's "wrapping around the rims" that's because they're radial tires. Look at your factory stock P245 BFG's on the 8" wide rims, and you'll see that they also have a tread that doesn't sit completely on the ground either. Uhmm, that's because they're radials too. Nitto drag radials are NOT slicks which sit on the ground squarely across the entire tread width regardless of what rim width you use. They're RADIAL tires.


Maybe the reason that "other tire manufactures" don't list a 9.5" rim width as being acceptable for P305 tires, is because there are very few of them that offer any type of raial tires (drag radial or standard radial) in a P305 size. Most of them go from a P285 or a P295 right to a P315 size and do NOT even offer a P305 size radial tire like Nitto does. And ofcourse the P315's are going to need a wider rim than 9.5". but that doeasn't mean that a P305 size tire needs a rim width as wide as a P315 requires.

[FordNut]

So how do y'all with blowers keep from lighting them up on the 1-2 shift? Let off when it happens, let off to partial throttle during shifts pre-emptively, program for different shift points, shift manually at lower rpm???

And on the launch, I assume no t/c preloading, roll-on throttle instead of stomping it to the floor?

[sailsmen]

[QUOTE=FordNut]So how do y'all with blowers keep from lighting them up on the 1-2 shift? Let off when it happens, let off to partial throttle during shifts pre-emptively, program for different shift points, shift manually at lower rpm???

With drag radials you probably won't spin on the 1-2 shift, but I don't know. I would think if you address the traction problem for launching then you have also addressed it for the 1-2 shift.

There was definite spin and loss of time on the 1-2 shifts.

But I don't know,before Wednessday I have never raced a car that developed this much RWHP.

I do have 100+ runs down the 1320' in my Marauder but that is all N/A. Only 4 runs with a S/C.

[Smokie]

[QUOTE=FordNut]So how do y'all with blowers keep from lighting them up on the 1-2 shift? Let off when it happens, let off to partial throttle during shifts pre-emptively, program for different shift points, shift manually at lower rpm???

With drag radials you probably won't spin on the 1-2 shift, but I don't know. I would think if you address the traction problem for launching then you have also addressed it for the 1-2 shift.

There was definite spin and loss of time on the 1-2 shifts.

But I don't know,before Wednessday I have never raced a car that developed this much RWHP.

I do have 100+ runs down the 1320' in my Marauder but that is all N/A. Only 4 runs with a S/C.I am not qualified to advise on the S/C end, but my N/A car when shifted manually 1-2 below 5400 rpms looses traction, when I allow the manual shift at about 6150 rpm's it does not come even close to loosing traction....of course I guess with a blower there are traction problems...at any rpm's.:D

[Zack]

I run the BFG G-Force Drag Radials on widened rims.
I do not drive these tires on the street because they are almost 2" shorter than the stock tire. But my god do they hook.
Honestly, I have run as much as 23-24psi at the track with a very short 1st gear burnout. When I take off, I hold the brake, stab the gas and let the brake go when my converter flashes to 3500rpms.
Let me put it in simple terms...
I have a Vortech which is criticized by some not to make the low end torque and I have 60 foot time 1.608, which is the best 60 foot posted by any member here.
You need the BFG's in size 295/35/18

[BillyGman]

I have a Vortech which is criticized by some not to make the low end torque and I have 60 foot time 1.608, which is the best 60 foot posted by any member here.
That's because you're running a 3,500 RPM stall speed along with 475+HP at the wheels. If your car hooks up good, and you're running that high of a stall speed along with that much HP and 4.10 gears, if you cannot nail a 1.6 second 60' time, then something is wrong.

FordNut, with my 4.56 gears, and a 3,000 RPM stall speed, along with 400 RWHP, I can stomp down on the go pedal all at once at the dragstrip, and the car hooks real good as long as I have the P305/45/18" Nitto drag radials on the back, and I'm running 17-22 PSI in them. And even on the street I don't get any wheel spin on the 1-2 gearshift. As far as a launch on the street, I have to roll into the throttle until I walk it out about 20 feet, and then I hammer it. On the street, if I crack it wide open as soon as the light turns green, I can still smoke up the drag radials into second gear, but not as much as with the standard radial tires.

The big difference with the drag radials is when you first heat them up. It's a greater traction gain after a burnout with the DR's than it is with standard radials because the DR's are simply more sensitive to temperature changes. And that works both ways...in the cooler weather, I've noticed that as soon as the air gets under 60 degrees outside, the DR's break loose even easier than standard radials do. They're simply very temperature sensitive.

[MarauderTJA]

As far as Nitto P305's "wrapping around the rims" that's because they're radial tires. Look at your factory stock P245 BFG's on the 8" wide rims, and you'll see that they also have a tread that doesn't sit completely on the ground either. Uhmm, that's because they're radials too. Nitto drag radials are NOT slicks which sit on the ground squarely across the entire tread width regardless of what rim width you use. They're RADIAL tires.


Maybe the reason that "other tire manufactures" don't list a 9.5" rim width as being acceptable for P305 tires, is because there are very few of them that offer any type of raial tires (drag radial or standard radial) in a P305 size. Most of them go from a P285 or a P295 right to a P315 size and do NOT even offer a P305 size radial tire like Nitto does. And ofcourse the P315's are going to need a wider rim than 9.5". but that doeasn't mean that a P305 size tire needs a rim width as wide as a P315 requires.
I too have a serious traction problem at the track. On the street however under a 20-35 MPH roll, and now with the Stallion w/3000 stall, I can still shred tires. But overall accerlation has been seriously increased from the new convertor. The convertor with the Procharger has made been a great improvement overall. But I predict at the track I'll still face terrible 60' times w/o drag radials or slicks. As much as would like Lido's widened rims, I really can't justify the costs w/drag radials for a couple a times a year at the track.

One of the things I am investigating for the track is to get a set of 15 or 16" Weld rims and find a drag radial or slick that would give the rims the same 28" OD of the stock wheels/tires. With 31 spline axles, a portable impact gun and aluminum jack I could change the stock wheels over to the slicks at the track and have the best of both worlds. Also looking into getting a rim/tire size to work with the 4.10's, or by using a small OD would lower the rear end ratio to 4.30-4.56 somewhere.

Has anyone worked on this concept?

[SergntMac]

One of the things I am investigating for the track is to get a set of 15 or 16" Weld rims and find a drag radial or slick that would give the rims the same 28" OD of the stock wheels/tires.Has anyone worked on this concept?Mickey Thompson ET street drag radial, 275/60/R15 is 28" tall, but don't confuse them with the bias ply ET Streets. Go here, then take the "street radial" shortcut.

http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.html

[MarauderTJA]

Mickey Thompson ET street drag radial, 275/60/R15 is 28" tall, but don't confuse them with the bias ply ET Streets. Go here, then take the "street radial" shortcut.

http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.html
Thanks SergntMac. Found them. Also saw 325/50/15 with the same 28" OD. Do you think that on 10.5 X 15 rims that these puppies would fit under our cars?

[89lxbill]

Thanks SergntMac. Found them. Also saw 325/50/15 with the same 28" OD. Do you think that on 10.5 X 15 rims that these puppies would fit under our cars?

I know we tried 15" rims on Bill Hall's car when he first ran it and we had to clearance the rear caliper a little. Nothing major, just a little grindage.

[Zack]

That's because you're running a 3,500 RPM stall speed along with 475+HP at the wheels. If your car hooks up good, and you're running that high of a stall speed along with that much HP and 4.10 gears, if you cannot nail a 1.6 second 60' time, then something is wrong.

FordNut, with my 4.56 gears, and a 3,000 RPM stall speed, along with 400 RWHP, I can stomp down on the go pedal all at once at the dragstrip, and the car hooks real good as long as I have the P305/45/18" Nitto drag radials on the back, and I'm running 17-22 PSI in them. And even on the street I don't get any wheel spin on the 1-2 gearshift. As far as a launch on the street, I have to roll into the throttle until I walk it out about 20 feet, and then I hammer it. On the street, if I crack it wide open as soon as the light turns green, I can still smoke up the drag radials into second gear, but not as much as with the standard radial tires.

The big difference with the drag radials is when you first heat them up. It's a greater traction gain after a burnout with the DR's than it is with standard radials because the DR's are simply more sensitive to temperature changes. And that works both ways...in the cooler weather, I've noticed that as soon as the air gets under 60 degrees outside, the DR's break loose even easier than standard radials do. They're simply very temperature sensitive.



Please dont quote me in your posts, it offends me.
Im faster, ha ha.

[martyo]

Im faster, ha ha.

For the moment.....

[Zack]

Billy and Marty, please dont respond.

[MikesMerc]

Im faster, ha ha.

Says the man without a timeslip to back it up :rolleyes:

[martyo]

Says the man without a timeslip to back it up :rolleyes:

Yeah, I was going to get to that, but I figured he must have written it down with one of his crayons.

[MikesMerc]

Yeah, I was going to get to that, but I figured he must have written it down with one of his crayons.

Well, most of us will beleive his car is actually faster than what you posted Marty the day he actually publishes his timeslip. When you wag your mouth about being "faster" you better be able to back it up. As far as I'm concerned, and for many others here on MM.net as well, you and Lidio hold the #1 and #2 spots. Your slips prove it.

[martyo]

Well, most of us will beleive his car is actually faster than what you posted Marty the day he actually publishes his timeslip. When you wag your mouth about being "faster" you better be able to back it up. As far as I'm concerned, and for many others here on MM.net as well, you and Lidio hold the #1 and #2 spots. Your slips prove it.

Thanks for the support Mike. I would tell Zack how you feel, but he won't let me talk to him. LOLOL!


Oh, and with a little luck, I will be posting some better slips before the season is out. :D

[MikesMerc]

Oh, and with a little luck, I will be posting some better slips before the season is out. :D

I'll be watching with interest. You've put together one heck of a beast! :beer:

[SergntMac]

Thanks SergntMac. Found them. Also saw 325/50/15 with the same 28" OD. Do you think that on 10.5 X 15 rims that these puppies would fit under our cars?
IMHO, no. The OEM wheel has a 50mm offset, I have 285/45/18s on 9.5 wide OEM wheels for street tires, and I "brush the dust" off the OEM shocks in hard cornering.

May I ask why stick with 28" tall tires? If you're using them only at the track, 26" tall tires work. They will set off an ABS alarm you can ignore, and you can shut off the Traction Control, so, why not consider a shorter tire? It will enhance your final drive ratio, and this is good, yes?

[Captain Steve]

IMHO, no. The OEM wheel has a 50mm offset, I have 285/45/18s on 9.5 wide OEM wheels for street tires, and I "brush the dust" off the OEM shocks in hard cornering.


Mac, have you considered going with a wheel that has a greater offset? I was thinking about it the other day.. if you had, say, a 12 inch wide wheel with a 200mm offset, it would work out about the same as a widened stock wheel.. just sticking out of the wheel well a bit.

Unlike a spacer, which causes problems with the lugs, I can't see how having a deeper offset wheel would be bad, it would seem to me that the car would be riding more over the center of the wheel that way.

[MarauderTJA]

IMHO, no. The OEM wheel has a 50mm offset, I have 285/45/18s on 9.5 wide OEM wheels for street tires, and I "brush the dust" off the OEM shocks in hard cornering.

May I ask why stick with 28" tall tires? If you're using them only at the track, 26" tall tires work. They will set off an ABS alarm you can ignore, and you can shut off the Traction Control, so, why not consider a shorter tire? It will enhance your final drive ratio, and this is good, yes?
Yes, I am considering that as well and mentioned it on the post. Whatever would work the best is good...

[martyo]

Mac, have you considered going with a wheel that has a greater offset? I was thinking about it the other day.. if you had, say, a 12 inch wide wheel with a 200mm offset, it would work out about the same as a widened stock wheel.. just sticking out of the wheel well a bit.

Unlike a spacer, which causes problems with the lugs, I can't see how having a deeper offset wheel would be bad, it would seem to me that the car would be riding more over the center of the wheel that way.

Take a look at the shocks and see if you think you will have clearance Clarence.

[BillyGman]

Please dont quote me in your posts, it offends me.
Im faster, ha ha.TRANSLATION: You cannot logically dispute what I've claimed, so you've reached for a diversion. (nice try) :baaa: :baaa: :baaa:

[martyo]

TRANSLATION: You cannot logically dispute what I've claimed, so you've reached for a diversion :baaa: :baaa: :baaa: . (nice try) and since the moderators generally allow you to post anything you want anyway

There ^^^ I fixed it for ya Billy. :D

[BillyGman]

There ^^^ I fixed it for ya Billy. :D:eek: LOL!!!!!! :rofl:

[Smokie]

Thread Tittle:

How are the S/C guys launching at the track?

The title of this post would be more accurate if it was called:

How are the S/C guys launching at each others throats?

Carry on gentlemen, I guess next we will be deciding who is faster with fist fights at the local meets.....carry on, is all good...right?...:shake:

[SergntMac]

Mac, have you considered going with a wheel that has a greater offset? I was thinking about it the other day.. if you had, say, a 12 inch wide wheel with a 200mm offset, it would work out about the same as a widened stock wheel.. just sticking out of the wheel well a bit.

Unlike a spacer, which causes problems with the lugs, I can't see how having a deeper offset wheel would be bad, it would seem to me that the car would be riding more over the center of the wheel that way.Sorry, Steve, I'll have to catch up with you another time. You welcome to drop me an e-mail.

You know, Javier, you're a very bright man.

[nomad]

Sarge, I have Dennis' s/c with 4:10s. I am trying to keep the stock look. I have read all the tire threads and noticed you are running/trying 285-45-18s. Any info on these?
I can run 13.2s all day with my car,just can not hook up.I really don't want to get the wider rims. I am willing to change both front and rears if somebody makes a set of DAILY DRIVER tires{NOT drag radials!!}. I know I will probably get burnt for saying that, I don't care. I want something I can drive on everyday, yet still get a wider profile,hence maybe better traction? You have more experience in tire experimenting with our car than anybody on this site.
Please respond here or pm me if you want to avoid the inevitable s/c, tire, gears, timeslip, time of day, color of the sky, etc,etc, etc, etc, we know it all and you are wrong responses.
Thank you , John Easton

[BillyGman]

Sarge, I have Dennis' s/c with 4:10s. I am trying to keep the stock look. I have read all the tire threads and noticed you are running/trying 285-45-18s. Any info on these?
I can run 13.2s all day with my car,just can not hook up.I really don't want to get the wider rims. I am willing to change both front and rears if somebody makes a set of DAILY DRIVER tires{NOT drag radials!!}. I know I will probably get burnt for saying that, I don't care. No you won't "get burned for saying that" but you're obviously looking for an argument by the way you threw in all that other sarcasm in your post. If you're running atleast a 3,000 RPM stall speed in your supercharged Marauder with 4.10 gears, there's no way you're going to hook-up off the line CONSISTENTLY w/out drag radials with the level of power that your car is puting to the wheels.

Maybe since you want to doubt the use of drag radials on the street so much with out even trying them, you'll find out what I'm saying the hard way after spending your $$ on several different other types of tires, just as MAC learned the hard way that he was wrong about telling me and others that 4.56 gears will make a Marauder slower in the quartermile than 4.10 gears will.

BTW, since I've really been trying to furnish you with some real world facts (contrary to your opinion) you might want to consider the fact that there are drag radial sizes that do NOT require any wider rims than our factory stock mags.;)

[nomad]

Stock torque converter.

[BillyGman]

Stock torque converter.It's likely that even with the stock stall speed, that you still won't be able to hook-up good with standard radials, but I wish you the best. Just some food for thought for ya here.....the BFG drag radials come in P245/40/18 which would only require an 8" wide rim (stock width) but unless you have lowered the ride height of your car, you might not like them since they only have a height of 25.6".

[maraudernkc]

Zack, are those mounted on the wider rims?



I run the BFG G-Force Drag Radials on widened rims.
I do not drive these tires on the street because they are almost 2" shorter than the stock tire. But my god do they hook.
Honestly, I have run as much as 23-24psi at the track with a very short 1st gear burnout. When I take off, I hold the brake, stab the gas and let the brake go when my converter flashes to 3500rpms.
Let me put it in simple terms...
I have a Vortech which is criticized by some not to make the low end torque and I have 60 foot time 1.608, which is the best 60 foot posted by any member here.
You need the BFG's in size 295/35/18

[SergntMac]

Sarge, I have Dennis' s/c with 4:10s. I am trying to keep the stock look. I have read all the tire threads and noticed you are running/trying 285-45-18s. Any info on these?
I can run 13.2s all day with my car,just can not hook up.I really don't want to get the wider rims. I am willing to change both front and rears if somebody makes a set of DAILY DRIVER tires{NOT drag radials!!}. I know I will probably get burnt for saying that, I don't care. I want something I can drive on everyday, yet still get a wider profile,hence maybe better traction? You have more experience in tire experimenting with our car than anybody on this site.
Please respond here or pm me if you want to avoid the inevitable s/c, tire, gears, timeslip, time of day, color of the sky, etc,etc, etc, etc, we know it all and you are wrong responses. Thank you , John EastonFirst, my 285/45/18 Pirelli rears require 9.5 wide rims. Secondly, you're not giving yourself much choice. Wider rims will open up more choices for a street tire that may give you an edge on the street, John, but IMHO, no street tire will serve you well in drag racing at a track. Care to consider an option? BFG drag radials in 265/40/18 are about 180. each from our Tire Rack. Discount Tires sells wheels, and a 9" wide rim that fits the Marauder is available for 99 bucks. So, keeping it under 600 bucks, you can get all the traction you deserve and get down to the 12s where you belong. Here's my new set.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5931&cat=500&page=1


Maybe since you want to doubt the use of drag radials on the street so much with out even trying them, you'll find out what I'm saying the hard way after spending your $$ on several different other types of tires, just as MAC learned the hard way that he was wrong about telling me and others that 4.56 gears will make a Marauder slower in the quartermile than 4.10 gears will. http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=88037&highlight=billy+gear#post88037

[BillyGman]

"You have been brave enough to stand your ground over the 4:56 gear ratio discussion in the face of nay-sayers. Perhaps I was among them, I don't recall..."

This is your quote taken from your post MAC. You said that you "don't recall" if you were one of those NAYsayers" who I had to "stand my ground" against" What a joke!! You were the main one, and you bashed me and told me that I should've asked you and others on here before I went and installed my 4.56 gears, because my car was going to be slower in the quartermile with those gears than the Marauders with 4.10's. you don't even remember half of what you write.

But you startewd that whole thread to cover your butt since you hammered me in another thread that is now gone. Get real.

[SergntMac]

Umm...You seemed to accept my compliments rather well later in that thread, so, are we done with this now?

[BillyGman]

Umm...You seemed to accept my compliments rather well later in that thread, so, are we done with this now?Yes, I did, because I wanted to let it go and not hold any grudges, and I thought after your comments that you and I would get along, but every time that you come at me, I see that same old pattern if yours, and it just brings me back to that. there have been other times (some much more recent) that you've come at me for no reason at all on this board, but I don't want to labor the point, nor do I want to drag others into this anymore than we both already have.

my aplogies to the other members of this board. I hope that MAC and I can just stay out of eachothers' way from now on.

[Captain Steve]

Take a look at the shocks and see if you think you will have clearance Clarence.I might have explained myself badly. The stock wheels have 5 spokes radiating from a center hub which is (50mm?) offset towards the center of the car, and an 8 inch wide band. The widened rims have the same offset and a strip welded into the middle of the band, making them 10(?) inches wide.

What I was proposing is a wheel with a 12 inch wide band, but with the center hub of the wheel offset much more. So in effect, the side of the wheel that is close to the shock would be the same clearance as the widened stock rims, but the outside edge would be 2 inches greater also.

Let me see if I can express it graphically..


______
|_____| Stock wheel

_| <-- center of wheel

|_____|


________
|_______| Stock wheel with widened rim

_| <-- center of wheel

|_______|


_________
|________| Wheel with wider rim, and greater offset

____| <-- center of wheel

|________|

[martyo]

What I was proposing is a wheel with a 12 inch wide band......

Wouldn't this make for a 20 inch wheel (8+12=20)? Eeeek! That would make the car look like one of my old H.O. cars gone bad. :D

All kidding aside. I have slicks and I am dying to try them out. I just don't want to change too many variables at once.

Is that where you are going with this?

[Captain Steve]

Yes.

It seems logical to me that wider tires will yield greater traction. The widened stock rims have reached the limit of how deep we can go in the fender well.

So, in order to have even wider wheels to support wider tires, we'd have to have a greater offset, and the wheels would stick out a bit on the sides.

[klmore]

Yes.

It seems logical to me that wider tires will yield greater traction. The widened stock rims have reached the limit of how deep we can go in the fender well.

So, in order to have even wider wheels to support wider tires, we'd have to have a greater offset, and the wheels would stick out a bit on the sides. This seems very logical to me. I have a set of widened rims being shipped to me this week, but I want to run a wider street tire on them for everyday use.

I really want a set of MT slicks just for the track for max traction. I have used drag radials before on a Camaro SS I had and I know that they can produce the 60 ft times, but I want to get every bit of traction possible. Am I wasting my money? Who knows I haven't tried it yet, but I'll have a good time finding out.

I think it is just a matter of what someone wants and what they are willing to pay for.:cool:

[SergntMac]

So, in order to have even wider wheels to support wider tires, we'd have to have a greater offset, and the wheels would stick out a bit on the sides.Take a look at the wheel lying down in this pic. It's 18x9, with 35mm offset. It fits the Marauder fine, on the back only. I haven't fit the front, I doubt it would clear the Baer 14" dual piston brake kit. The wheel/tire does not stick out of the fenderwell on my Marauder, and my rear suspension is adjusted to it's lowest setting, look here.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5794&cat=500&page=1

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5931&cat=500&page=1
These wheels start at 99 bucks, with center cap and valve. The OEM tapered "acorn" lug nuts are used, but watch the tools. Thicker "impact gun" sockets won't fit in the lug recess, you need to use a 13/15 (21mm) deep well socket. I'm fairly confident I could stuff a 10" wheel back there, and step up to the DR selections above 305...Yeah, that'll work. Bottom line, this is a cheap fix for traction problems, and if you can drop 6 large on a blower, 600 for traction is a deal.

[Rider90]

Mac,

Didn't want this one in your gallery?

http://midwestpanthers.net/events/cr15/40.jpg

Best one IMHO :burnout: :D