Supercharger Setup - I need your opinions!

[MI2QWK4U]

I would really like to know what you guys think about something. With the knowledge and experience in this forum, I know I will get some good and usefull feedback. Up to this point I had never given much thought to supercharging my Marauder. A chip, 4:10 gears, pulleys, etc. was the extent of my mods to get a little more Ummph out of the Marauder....Until today that is.....
I live in Michigan, and have the fortune of living near a Performance in Macomb County, and having the owner around to help me with my various Mustang Projects for the last ten years or so. I stopped by the shop today with a Mustang question, and to my amazement, there was a black Marauder sitting out front. Lidio informed me he is working on an Eaton roots supercharger setup and kit for the Marauder. I was instantly curious and HAD to check it out. He was kind enough to let me take it for a spin, and let me tell you, I was absolutely floored! I am used to having and driving quick, strong Mustangs, but up to now...just the stock Marauder. I can honestly say that with the exception of a couple of built Cobras, this was easily the fastest car I have driven. It had intense low end torque right off the line and the accelleration was unbelievable. I had to make a real effort not to spin the tires taking off from a light. Like you guys, I watched the video clip of Mensrea doing the burnout in the Kenny Brown Marauder, but it felt like I was living the video! And able to do the same type of burnout myself. Sorry to go on like this...but I had to share this with you, and tell you that it rocked my world and made me insanely jealous. I am still psyched over it and grinning ear to ear. Pretty much told the wife that this fall I wanted to supercharge mine, and to hell with the warranty.

What I need from my fellow members here is your honest opinion about the setup on this supercharger kit. I know the basics, but I could spend days looking up old posts. I don't recall a lot of info posted on the Roots type anyway.

Lidio explained the setup as follows:
Basics
- stock exhaust
- stock 3:55 rear end
- stock fuel pump in tank

Supercharger setup
- Eaton M-112 Roots Type Blower
- Water/Air Intercooled
- 42 lb Injectors
- Kit will be sold with 8 psi of boost, but is currently making 9.8 psi in recent testing. At 8 psi it will not need a pump upgrade in the tank, but over that it needed a Kenny Bell "boosta-pump" at about 10% gain with the stock pump in place.
- The best result was achieved with a safe tune on 93 octane, 11-16 degrees timing, and a 13 to 1 air/fuel ratio from 2000-3500, then 12.5 to 1 from 4000 to 5000, and then 11 to 1 from 4800 to 6100.

Dyno results
- 387 Max HP
- 353 ft/lbs Max Torque

No strip stats yet, but Lidio is taking the Marauder to Bradington, Florida for NMRA on March 7th, and will give me the results to post if anyone is interested.
He rattled of the info I have above, and I did my best to take good notes. He asked me to pass on any questions you all may have so he can follow up. Bottom line is I feel the strong urge to supercharge my Marauder, as strong as the urge to buy it in the first place. Like I said earlier...I don't know a lot about the technical stuff about superchargers, but I can tell you this much, it makes the car.....its a shame it didnt come from the factory with one standard. Please shoot me back some feedback, I am trying to get Lidio to join this forum so he can share some of his expertise and help us out a lot now that he is diving into the Marauders.
Sorry about the long winded post, but this is a big step and I want as much info and opinions as I can get from this forum.
Thanks in advance....
Dave

Edited for content by Logan

[MI2QWK4U]

Underhood pic

[MI2QWK4U]

Last underhood pic

[BODYMAN]

What I do like about his set up is it looks very OE. I think it would be nice if he would join us. where is he at :) :cool: :cool:

[B-26]

I definitely want to see the drag strip results and anybody else if they become available. Glad to see someone raising the bar. The Marauder needs a lift!

[MI2QWK4U]

Lidio is located in Michigan. Mount Clemens in Macomb County to be exact. I think I may have talked him into joining the forum, and possibly becoming a vendor. Logan, could you email me with some information on him posting a banner or something?

[SergntMac]

Outstanding post, Dave, and great pics, thank you very much.

If he's got a complete kit for under 5 large, I think he's gonna make some money here. Can you get us some phone numbers, or, a web page? I know there will be a few Q&As, I've got a dozen already E-me at SergntMac@aol.com if you don't want to publish that here.

Thanks again.

[MI2QWK4U]

Forgot this pic....

[MI2QWK4U]

Sarge,
I think that it might be a good idea to post the questions for Lidio here for now. I am thinking that it will cut down on repeat questions if we see what is already asked, and might help us come up with some other questions based on what other members ask, if that makes sense! I can't tell you what a 4300 lb rocket this thing is with the supercharger on it!
So if anyone has any questions, please post them....I promise to have Lidio sign up and make sure they get answered. He should be encouraged by the hardcore enthusiasm from the members of this forum.

Dave

[Billatpro]

WOW, to hell with the warranty, give wind!!!!

Will this thing be "Self installable"?

I gotta have this!

[JerseyVics]

LOL... thats my type of response! haha

The more the better guys... we got a shot to show off these Supercharged cars in Magazines and invite the rest of the community to participate like we did with the last appearance in Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords... look it up! Jeff got a spot in the article and CVN got a spot for showing up so many kids in Vics/Monkeys... So! Do it, do it, do it!

I'm getting my supercharger soon too for the Vic!

--Russ :)

[tetsu]

I like it. All it needs is a custom read powdercoat ala the S55.

I like it alot.

Johnny

[Vince Gortner]

Want it. Need it. $5k.....:coolman:

1) Eaton. Very, very good. Zero maintenance. Will last longer than the car. OEM stuff for all the biggies and a great rep in the aftermarket world. You guys familiar with Jackson Racing? They do Eaton setups for the ricer crowd that you can do on a Saturday afternoon with bad hand tools half drunk. I'd hope that this would be a do-it-yourself job.

2) 8 psi. Excellent. Now I don't have to take my car apart or concern myself with rods leaking out the side of the block.

Are those dyno tests on a bench or at the wheels? I hate to say it in this thread, but it's kinda what I'm hoping Dennis will have for us this summer. One nice bolt-on package and I'm done.

Or I could just do that 80 shot Edelbrock Nitrous kit for $600 and pray?

[Mike M]

I have Dennis's chip (is that the Delta chip?????) and the 4:10's go in this Tuesday. I like the superchagers but for $600.00 and 80+HP I'm going to go with the NOS. Makes more sense to me.

[MAD-3R]

Must be good. My wife took one look at it and said "No, I don't think so."

[MI2QWK4U]

From the sounds of things, this is a good setup?

[SergntMac]

No, it's not a good setup.


It's a great setup.

What's my 5 large buy?
Parts? Complete install kit with instructions? Installed for me?
What's the warranty on the components Any custom crafted parts, or is it all "off the shelf"?

[Billatpro]

Ditto Mac

[RoyLPita]

To MI2QWK4U:
Do you have some pics of where the alternator has been relocated to?

[MI2QWK4U]

For Sarge and Roy-good questions, I will call Lidio and have him take some closeup pics if he can, and post them here. I will also run your questions buy him as well. I do know that all the brackets and mounting hardware are custom designed. If you look at the pics, the polished brackets and other pieces are whats custom, including the alternator bracket. The top polished piece even is engraved with "Marauder", and looks sweet. I agree with 93TEALCOBRA and others in the observation that it looks very much OEM and stock.....This is the way this car should have come from the factory, without question. Post any other questions and I will make sure they are answered.

[merc406]

Go for it, at that price it's a steal, I would believe that's part's only not labor, they are not hard to install with step but step instructions.

[WolfeBros]

I am liking what I am seeing so far.....:banana2:

[Lidio]

Hey every one

Edited for content by Logan

It’s an Eaton M-112 and sits on top of a custom made plate that adapts the blower nicely on top of the production ’03 Cobra lower intake and intercooler. The inlet elbow and throttle body are unique and new to allow all the stock MAF tubing and hoses to go right back on. It has 42’lbs injectors and uses the stock MAF sensor. All the emissions like EGR and EVAP still work and stock cats are still in place too. We are using the stock intercooler pump from ’03 Cobra and the heat exchanger as well is from the Cobra. All the remaining intercooling components such as hoses and reservoir etc… are unique.
The kit relocates the alternator in front of the driver side timing cover area (inverts it) and requires the one way roller on the alternator pulley to be removed, but for now we’re simply using a alternator from other 4.6’s that do not have the one-way-roller (haven’t made a tool to remove the one-way-roller pulley yet). It’s yet to be determined if the kit will come with a new alternator or provisions to remove the one way roller pulley.

At this time the pulley combination we chose to start with has accidentally made almost 10psi of boost not the 8psi we want to market the kit with. It could also be because here in Michigan it’s been no higher than 30 degrees for a while. For now I’ve decided to leave the boost at the 10ish area and just work and tune around it. Really the only thing we ran into is the pump in the tank looses fuel pressure at the very high end of the tack and then the air/fuel ratio did what we don’t want to see. A Kenny-Bell boosta-pump attached to the stock pump fixed that immediately. I’m confident that the boosta pump might not be needed on Marauder’s that use this kit making only 7.5 to 8 psi of boost. But this thing runs so great at 9.8psi on Michigan “winter blend” 92 octane with zero detonation that I’m going to leave it for a while… infact I think this set up will probably survive 12-13 psi as well.

For now it has laid down 387 RWHP on a DynoJet and 358 RWHP on a Friction chassis dyno like a MD (Mustang Dyno). I took it to both dynos with in a day of each other to get some serious data together.
I’m at this time responsible for all the calibration and tuning with the blower and I feel that so far I have achieved great safety considering the motor is about 10:1 compression, and 8-10 psi with no detonation should not be detrimental to engine life.
I’m not going to kid any one here though; we’ve added over 120 horsepower at the crank. Tuned properly and with the right octane... this should last a long time, but in the hands of an aggressive tuner, really bad/incorrect fuel or a crazed, overly abusive teenager behind the wheel…. shortened engine life would be inevitable. I can say that I have a high number of ’96 and newer Mustang customers equipped with 9.8:1 compression 4.6L 32V’s and blowers that have good long lives with the stock pistons and head gaskets over the last several years.

I’m defiantly going to have the Marauder at Bradenton FL the weekend of March 7th.

All I can say for now is that it’s defiantly beyond a shadow of a doubt awesome from just off idle till 6100 rpm. It will fry the tires as much as you want in first gear from a dead stop or a very low role. No brake torque required, just stab it and up they go until you lift… at least for now while its real cold here in MI.
If any one here has ever driven the new style supercharged Lightning’s… this is exactly what it feels like only better and it even has the familiar Eaton whine as soon as the blower starts making boost. No bottle to go empty or become weak and no waiting for centrifugal to “come on”. Lots of awesome feeling bigblock torque all the time. It almost feels like the 3.55’s in the rear are perfect for now.


Thanks

[SergntMac]

Now this is what I call 411. Thanks, Lidio, how about a phone number for us?

[Billatpro]

Thanks lidio, that was an awesome post! One more clarification, You said you were unsure if a self install kit would be offered, If you are looking at bringing in this deal at under 5k, is that installed or would the 18 to 22 hour install estimate be add on labor?
If so that could bring the price of admision to an unrealistic level for a lot of us.

[BODYMAN]

Lidio, as far as I'am concerned you are very welcome here. Thank you so much for the wonderful post. I just cant get over the OE look it has!!! WOW. Mine is in the process of having supercharger installed right now but this makes me want to go buy another. This is the way the car should have came from the factory. I'am just happy to see someone doing a roots styler blower. PS WELCOME ABOARD!!!!!!!

I think some people need to realize youre not going to get a whole setup and installed for under5xxx., I would be impress if the whole kit installed came in under 7,xxx.
I also want to thank MIke for turning us all on to him. Thank you!!!!!

Todd

[Billatpro]

Todd, you home today?

[BODYMAN]

Bill, ck youre pms

[cyclone03]

Make a kit available!
Why the issue with the alternator?What did Ford do about the alternator on the Cobras?I know the stock alternator is in the V but where is it on the Cobra's?

[RoyLPita]

To Lidio,
Thanx for the pic and the extra info. I still do not have my MM yet, but this will definitely make me want it more!!!!

[RoyLPita]

To Cyclone03:
The alternator on the '03 Cobra is on the left side by the p/s pump. My bad. I was 1/2 right. It is on my right but I am facing the motor so it is on the left. Sorry.

[WolfeBros]

A kit for under 5K would definitely have my interest !

[MarauderBoy]

Well, this changes a few things for me. Personally, I wasn't in favor of a centrifugal blower on this motor and have been waiting for a reputable roots version. Lidio certainly brings an undeniable reputation to the table.

The question is if you haven't done any mods yet and intend to go this way, how do you build your mods? I would guess that a chip is out and the 4.10's I already have are probably too low for this kinda of combo. The one that might seem to still make sense is the convertor.

Just trying to rethink the performance budget based on the new developments.

[MI2QWK4U]

Marauderboy,
You hit on a very important item I thought about right after driving the Supercharged Marauder, deciding what to do to the car first, or at all. I can tell you this much, I was dead set on certain mods, like 4:10 and chip, but now I put everything on hold. I had to agree with Lidio after driving the car, It DOESN'T need the 4:10 rear end. With no mods to the exhaust, rear end, or anything else, that car SCREAMED. If you had the 4:10 in it....you could never take off and jump on it from the light. So I guess the first thing I will spend a dime on is the Supercharger....and save what I would have spent on gears. I think a lot of us are glad we waited a little while untill stuff like this becomes available to us. Definetely gave me a lot to think about all of a sudden!

[RoyLPita]

To Lidio and/or MI2QWK4U:
How is the tranny since the supercharger was installed? Dennis Reinhart's chip fixed the shifting problem(s). Let me know.

[Lidio]

Hey Guys

Edited for content by Logan

As far as the transmission goes I’m not sure what problem the Marauder guys have experienced in this forum, since I didn’t search this forum, but I may have an idea what it is.
My experience with any thing that has an AOD-E or a 4R70W like in the MM…. has found that when the rear gear ratio as been changed substantially and more power added to the engine… they seem to not want to shift the same exact way from 1st to 2nd at WOT.
The 2 to 3 shift always seems fine no matter what. What I found is that the 1-2 shift will always do what I want when programming as long as you start from a dead stop or an extremely low role and absolutley no tire spin at all. But when the vehicle is rolling like lets say at about 25-35 and you stab it, and then it downshifts to 1st… they will some times over rev or hit the limiter or just plain shift much later then if it were at a dead stop. I’m only guessing that this might be what you guys are talking about. On stangs we had a tough time with this and to be honest we never really got rid of it completely. No matter what tables I play with, they always seem to shift into 2nd a little later from a role then from a dead dig.
The Marauder I have here with the Eaton so far seems to always shift to 2nd at about 6000 give or take 200. With the added power of the blower you’re only splitting adams worrying that you may loose some performance if it shifts a little to low or high. I think be cause this MM has the 3.55’s still in the rear, the CPU has a less difficult time with what’s going on at WOT.

While were on the trans subject I do want to mention that I have changed a few things (programming not hardware) with how the trans behaves with normal driving and all the full throttle stuff, and have found that in my opining that the 1-2 shift at WOT is a little weak with the blower and the 2-3 shift at WOT is dead positive and very firm. The 1-2 shift will probably need a shift kit to improve it because I can’t seem to firm it up any more in the program. Also these 4R70W’s when shift kitted early in their life or just plain set up to shift much firmer at WOT will live long healthy lives. We’ve known this ever since the ’94 Mustang first got the AOD-E.

Also the alternator got relocated in front of the timing cover because we felt that it would be to crowded where the ’03 Cobra’s is and would have required more work with lower cooling hoses and the thermostat housing. While I’m on the alternator subject I was wondering if any one here new exactly why they have a one-way roller on it. My theory is that it was to prevent the belt from squealing when the engine decelerated abruptly and the guts of the alternator don’t slow down fast enough and has like a flywheel effect which wants to keep spinning and makes the belt squeal. This is real common on 4.6’s that we do that have automatics… it’s the most common when spinning the tires in the burnout box and then when driving out of the box when the tires grab the engine rpms drop real fast but the alternator internals wants to keep spinning causing the belt to squeal.
Hope some more of this helps.


Thanks

;) :) :)

[RoyLPita]

To Lidio:
Your alternator theory is correct (it is stated in the 2003 Ford shop manual). The problem that I forgot to mention earlier is that the trans in the MM likes to "hunt" for gears while driving around town. Also, others in the forum say that the trans goes into overdrive at around 40mph. I personally have no complaints there as my '92 GM with a 3.27 rear gear and a non-electronic AOD hits overdrive at 43mph. Keep me posted.:bows:

[LincMercLover]

Funny you mention that, mine got into OD today at around 37MPH (I was actually grandpa driving today! (please no law-suits...)), taching like 1050.

[Bob Mathis]

Lidio I have a question for now does it fit under the hood OK? I did not see any thing in the thread or did I miss it.
Thanks Bob

[MI2QWK4U]

Bob, If I remember, it fit just fine under the hood...insulation was still on Lidio's test Marauder.

[beemer]

This would be doable for me however I need kit form to install myself.
Lidio, thanks for your input and thoughtful knowledge. I'll be looking forward to purchasing this item in kit form in the near future.

Paul:D

[MI2QWK4U]

As you know, Lidio took the Eaton Supercharged Marauder to Floriday this weekend, and he just called to give me the latest on how the car is running. It was 85 degrees with 80% humidity at the track. He said that with the Florida weather, it lost almost a pound of boost from the Michigan results posted earlier, running about 9 lbs in Florida. The Marauder turned in a couple of good runs so far:
13.40 @ 102 mph and 13.42 @ 102 mph .
This was running with the stock rear end, exhaust, and tires.
Lidio was pleased with the results thusfar, and thinks this setup is capable of 13.30's. It is important to note that he said a lot of people were taking notice of the big black sedan, and people were impressed at the Marauder's performance!!
I don't know about you guys, but I can't wait to have one of the first Marauders around with this setup! Lidio has to remind me that it is still in the testing phase and I will have to wait a couple months more....easy for him to say....he is driving the supercharged one...and I am driving my stock one!

[BODYMAN]

Mike, Those are some nice#'s Look to be to close to what car and driver had for marauder-s IN there article. Did he say if he was losing alot of traction with the stock tires. also what were his 60-ft times do you know? THanks for the 411

[BRSMERC]

I'm certainly in the market as well. I'm looking for some sort of compromise. I'd like the fastest with touring capability. How far do I go. Someone please give me a slap if I'm being silly. All these power modifications are weighing heavily on me - gears - reprogramming - superchargers - torque converters?
A thread start that lists these modifications along with suppliers, benefits, fast versus touring, and general comments would be a great help to those of us on the fringe.

Regards, Brian

[MI2QWK4U]

Lidio should have some more numbers for us when he gets back today or tomorrow. The more I find out by asking around, this setup looks to be one of the best, and it sounds like a lot of you agree. I for one can't wait to get it installed and start showing it off.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by MI2QWK4U
Lidio should have some more numbers for us when he gets back today or tomorrow. The more I find out by asking around, this setup looks to be one of the best, and it sounds like a lot of you agree. I for one can't wait to get it installed and start showing it off.

The numbers I am looking for, are telephone numbers for Lidio, k?

It's not clear to me who owns the car he has built, but it is clear to me who should own the next.

[MI2QWK4U]

I hear you Sarge!! Oh...by the way...I will be the next owner of a roots supercharged Marauder!! (God willing and the wife not changing her mind!)

Can you Email me Sarge? Got a question for you....

[Logan]

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