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View Full Version : Marauderman--What are you up to??



Marauderman
05-14-2005, 04:05 PM
Well, the story of what I'm up to has been told to the Carolina Marauder group today at our monthly meet and so......I want to share it with you all as well.....

The following occurred due to several factors , none of which was due to my S/C install by and from Dennis Reinhart- It was due to my particular type of driving in the "caught up in the moment " situation , a lot of which I do -and an earlier bad install from another tranny installer I had do work for me who is un-associated with DR and his group--- and as far back as my headers install for the gasket problems---so it was the engine that you might say failed me-- I have driven the car hard for over a year and even draged it in Alt..so all need to understand some cause and effects here --not anything else...

I suppose the best place is the beginning---I call it--what else--
"Cause and Effect"

While running another car between 90-110MPH in 3rd, I let go the acceleration three times ,in fast succession,due to road manuvours, ( you had to be there) and then had to stop quickly at a traffic light---all under a mile distance -- the car stalls and on re-start, she is very sick and doesn't want to run --missing badly and exhaust sounding like it's been hit with a machine gun...I limp home a short distance away--fortunately..

A check of the plugs finds the second back , drivers side, from the front, completly push inward--closed- NOT GOOD-
I call my friends at CPRACING here in Charlotte--discuss my situation--
After two weeks of thinking and negotiation, I decided to have them do surgery to find out all my problems----they come and haul my MM away in an enclosed trailer--very good care!!!

Next - SURGERY FINDINGS[/B]

[B]Engine removal-

1.The bent spark plug mentioned above of course
2. 2 bell housing bolts missing, 2 very loose, and remaining too tight to hardly
loosen.
3. Torque converter bolts so tight it took two men off their feet on wrenches
to loosen.
4. Passenger side manifold to head and x-pipe leaking exhaust severly--
gaskets were shot and for the most part gone on one side---may be the
cause of blue smoke on start up til it got hot and became unnoticeable--
who knows--(just a though interjected here)-
5. Belt tensioner failing causing belt to ride into front cover. (maybe from
wreck earlier in it's life-for those who have kept up on my MM)
6. Two(2) large washers(adding up to what appears to be slight more than
1/4 inch) used as spacers on drivers side engine mount for "leveling"
engine in-place--Now this is very interesting! NOt sure where this came
from--could have been from the body shop from wreck--maybe from
factory---it will be interesting when balancing engine later)

The results were: detonation of the 2nd cylinder from drivers side, blowing the upper piston ring lancers thru the engine and also damaging oil ring seal on piston..this caused the spark plug to be impacted by the explosion of the upper piston , pushing it closed and thus the missing and exhaust problems.....

So now what??? Reed--light up that cigar!!

I am having the engine completly re-built ( Marty sit down --it's ok) and the following done:- there wasn't much else left to do---

*Forged Pistons/ rings( Diamond)
* Forged Rods-diamonds
* APR Head studs
* Upgraded tranny pan /w-plug
* Ported and polished heads
* Engine completly checked at machine shop and "fine tuned"-
(inspect valve seals and all for damage from blown out debris)
* Install PI 3K Torque Converter
* Install J-Mod to Tranny--(Thanks Barry for info)
* Cams---will do what is needed-
* Install rear gridle and stud kit
* Replace 410 gears w/430---410's going to wifes '97 T-BIrd--
* Replace 3.61 pully w/3.2 pully
* Lower my compression
* Install new belt and tensioner
* Install all new gaskets-that will work for this engine-
* Replace fuel filter w/DR mod
* Install 2 "A" pod guages-relocate boost to "A" -add water/tranny gauges
* Upgrade exhaust system before and after Magnaflows--Anyone know of
a good muffler shop????? cough--cough--
* Upgrade valve springs if needed
* Complete balance of engine( there is an old Holman/Moody man here in
town if my shop has a problem --I can get him if needed for this --his shop
is perfect--love Charlotte--)
* Re-install DR Vortec #7 S/C system kit
* Road Test and Dyno Tune

and while the car is undergoing this transformation for the third time, I'll be hunting to get wider wheels and larger tires-----a thread that is so confusing to me--so to those who have done this --I wil be asking you for some help here--hope you can---thanks in advance--

Well..now you know--I problably left some things out cause it is so many--right Marty-- but #7 wil come out more a BAD MM than she was---I want to be there for the Nov Alt. event so I hope to practice some in Fayetteville some before then....

She won't be a LK , but maybe a close 2nd--who knows--hey --you only live once--it outta be fun-- I think a new name for my MM is needed--
doesn't the name " Christine" seem to come to mine here??? this is round three.....

Will keep all up to date on my re-build as I get it--- later....Tom

MikesMerc
05-14-2005, 04:39 PM
Sorry to hear of the engine failure...but from the ashes arises a new beast!!

Your plans look solid...but for one point.

Very, very, very, very carefully consider lowing the compression. Often times, the knee jerk reaction to an engine rebuild with forced induction is to lower the compression. Be warned though, the 4.6 mod motor falls over hard when you give up compression. So you better be prepared to up the boost WAY up or you'll go backwards performance wise. Furthermore, your low end will suffer if you boost doesn't come on low enough. Dropping as low at 8.8:1 will require 17psi or more to bring the power back. 8:1 requires serious boost.

On the other hand, if you plan on upgrading to a T Trim and running big boost, than lower compression can indeed be the ticket. But, unless you go that route, you'll be in trouble. The S Trim just doesn't push enough CFM to push the 4.6 mod motor briskly with compression lower than 9.5:1.

I've been here and done that with a 4.6 mod motor in a mustang already, so please take it for what its worth.

Good luck with the rebuild and keep us posted!

Smokie
05-14-2005, 04:43 PM
Tom, I agree with you...we only go around once, and it sounds like you are going to do it right. I can hardly wait to see the final results, best wishes on your rebuild, keep us posted on the progress.:beer:

jgc61sr2002
05-14-2005, 04:49 PM
Tom - Good luck with the rebuild.

Marauderman
05-14-2005, 04:53 PM
Thanks Mike--Will take all your words into consideration and to my shop guys--and also to you Smokie--We've met and it's nice to know a friend face from afar--and also to you John--thanks for the encouragement guys--I'm needing it--...will keep all up to date as I get it to ya...Tom

martyo
05-14-2005, 05:04 PM
A few questions Tom:

Who is doing the work? Is it CPR? How does Reed figure into this?

What does your wife have to say about all of this?

Marauderman
05-14-2005, 05:16 PM
A few questions Tom:

Who is doing the work? Is it CPR? How does Reed figure into this?

What does your wife have to say about all of this?
Marty-- CPRACING is a shop here in Charlotte--they are the nations 5th largest dealership in Vortec S/C'ers and do alot of installs and know alot about our engines....check out their site --"cprace.com"

.........and Reed.....well it's along story, but he said when I decide to go S/C that "that will not be enough--someday you'll go for more--it will happen --you'll see"--and he chuckled with his cigar--and I said --No-way--that will be enough--and he said --somehow --enough is never enough--- so-- I kinda make reference to him cause when he hears about this he is surely going to chuckle again and light a cigar-if he still smokes 'um.

..and Kathy........well she was with me thru the whole thing---loves the whole idea--(not the cost of course--we won't go there will we Marty)-especially since she is getting the 410's and upgrade tune with them in her '97-Tbird out of it--- she can't wait to Get-R-Done!!! :lol:

martyo
05-14-2005, 06:04 PM
he is surely going to chuckle again and light a cigar-if he still smokes 'um.

Oh Reed still smokes 'em alright! :rasta:

MarauderMark
05-14-2005, 06:08 PM
I hope everything works out for # 7 ..If theres anything me and 18 can do let us know.:up:

FordNut
05-14-2005, 06:11 PM
Good luck with the project to make your MM into a monster. I'm going to get mine blown this year and hope the engine lasts until next year, then I'll build mine up too. Can't believe I'm thinking about a rebuild on a 3 year old car...

martyo
05-14-2005, 06:14 PM
If theres anything me and 18 can do let us know.:up:

Not to de-rail this thread, but just where is #18? :confused:

MarauderMark
05-14-2005, 06:28 PM
Not to de-rail this thread, but just where is #18? :confused:

Sorry Tom..
I love it. :D :D :D
Here it is..http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17959&highlight=hey+maraudermark

Marauderman
05-14-2005, 06:38 PM
I hope everything works out for # 7 ..If theres anything me and 18 can do let us know.:up:
Thanks Mark---will let you know if I need any --Thanks seems you and I will be alot alike..eh!

PS--Would like to see you and #18 at Alt. in Nov....

Marauderman
05-14-2005, 06:42 PM
Good luck with the project to make your MM into a monster. I'm going to get mine blown this year and hope the engine lasts until next year, then I'll build mine up too. Can't believe I'm thinking about a rebuild on a 3 year old car...
Thanks Brian--I too cannot believe I'm doing it either --but I came into this as most know from a most unusual and different angle--no matter--the outcome is still the same--just sooner than we expected ---hope your plans work out your way too--good luck --and again --thanks----Tom

MarauderMark
05-14-2005, 06:46 PM
Thanks Mark---will let you know if I need any --Thanks seems you and I will be alot alike..eh!

PS--Would like to see you and #18 at Alt. in Nov....


I will most certainly try since i have more free time after september...:up:

SergntMac
05-14-2005, 06:50 PM
Be warned though, the 4.6 mod motor falls over hard when you give up compression. So you better be prepared to up the boost WAY up or you'll go backwards performance wise. Furthermore, your low end will suffer if you boost doesn't come on low enough. Dropping as low at 8.8:1 will require 17psi or more to bring the power back. 8:1 requires serious boost.

On the other hand, if you plan on upgrading to a T Trim and running big boost, than lower compression can indeed be the ticket. But, unless you go that route, you'll be in trouble. The S Trim just doesn't push enough CFM to push the 4.6 mod motor briskly with compression lower than 9.5:1. Good luck with the rebuild and keep us posted!
OMG Tom, sorry to hear your news. But, we know the game, yes? If you want to play, you may have to pay. Been here, done this, and I hope my .02c helps you now.

My numbers don't match Mike's, but I have to agree with him in principle. (BTW, Mike, thanks for beating me to the punch. As I read Tom's post, I said aloud "rut row").

Tom, my experience in this stuff is limited to the Marauder engine and Vortech superchargers, which may be good here. I don't mean to say that my advice is any better than Mike's, quite the contrary. But, all I can do, is improve on his remarks with a 2005 outlook on stuff you're going to experience first hand in the near future. Anytime you need to talk, let's get on the phone? I just went through all of this stuff myself.

Back around last Xmas, I decided to rebuild my Marauder engine for improved performance. I added all the sweet stuff you plan, and I chose to lower my compression to 9.0:1 by adding a 13cc dish to my JE forged aluminum pistons. Yes, exactly as Mike says, the S-Trim Vortech used in DR's supercharger kit is underpowered for lower compression engines. Dennis (and Kenny) delivered blowers geared to the stock Marauder engine specs. Change these specs, and you must consider changing blowers, or suffer the power loss Mike points to.

Your blower is identical to the Vortech S-Trim in my Kenny Brown's build, and it is likewise underpowered when applied to lower compression engines. Perhaps not as severly as Mike suggests, but you didn't qualify how low you were going in compression, so I understand his speculation. I firmly suggest that you go no lower than 9.0:1 compression. If you choose to go lower, you may indeed have a lot of issues you really don't need to explore right now.

My new build is very similar to your plans, and my build sucked up everything the S-Trim could offer, even with a 3.12 pulley. My answer was to step up to the T-Trim blower specs, and it's good news here that your S-Trim blower can be upgraded, rather than having to replace it. Just another box shipped out to Vortech via UPS, with a 72 hour turn around to your builder, no "waste of a good thing".

Call Vortech Monday morning (California time) at 805.247.0226. Ask for John Snee, or, dial his extension 298. Introduce yourself as a customer of Dennis, and get Vortech's "red carpet" treatment. Their upgrade offers several choices, including a polished blower, but the worst you may expect budget-wise, is what I paid just last March. T-Trim upgrade, polished blower, and recertification for another 3 year warranty, with shipping and 2500.00 in insurance both ways = 1143.00. The blower weighs 24 pounds, and with insurance, shipping should be around 38.00, you will pay for round trip shipping.

Skip over your plans for a 3.22 pulley, Tom, and order a 3.12 pulley from Vortech during the upgrade. When you get it back, it will be bolt-on "plug and play" time, with 15# of boost on tap. This will serve you well, but you'll need to attend to more in your build.

Your OEM 80mm MAF is likewise underpowered for all of this, be prepared for an upgrade here too. I suggest the SCT 90mm "Big Air", which SCT has perfected a tune table for. You'll be very delighted by your new low end torque.

On your parts list, add room for some new plumbing. The T-Trim is has a 4" OD snout, and your S-Trim was 3.5" OD. You'll need to "collar up" on the induction side of the blower to make things fit, those blue "sleeves" from your DR kit won't fit the blower's snout. But, this is a minor concern, just giving you a heads up on it now. I'm sure your repair crew will get it all done.

I've got a lot of other details stuck in my head, please give me a call when you can, when you want. Drop me an e-mail at SergntMac@aol.com and I'll send you fresh numbers.

Sorry for your loss, but it's only going to get better from here.

Marauderman
05-14-2005, 07:03 PM
WOW--Thanks Sarge--- I have so much to review with so many giveing me pointers--and yes--I remember you doing your re-build you mentioned----will print out all responses and go over with my shop crew and follow thru to not make mistakes --the old history point eh!--anyway- and oh yes, I have discussed the upgrade to t-trim if necessary --just the ship and return with new innerds as they say-- I really appreciate all the helpful insight you have given me and others as well----right now the engine is in the machine shop being looked over for damage--but I didn't see any from the"naked" eye--they will more closely of course...btw--already went to a 90 MAf in Nov.last yr..--had too-----

I will call or write --you can be sure of that---Tom

MikesMerc
05-14-2005, 07:19 PM
My numbers don't match Mike's, but I have to agree with him in principle. (BTW, Mike, thanks for beating me to the punch. As I read Tom's post, I said aloud "rut row").


Good info Mac! In fact, I think your assessment, being Marauder specific and much more recent than my own experience, is likely to be closer to the realities Tom will be faced with.

Also, I'm glad I wasn't alone in trying to be helpful by pointing out the trickiness in dropping compression on the 4.6 mod motors. I didn't want to be seen as "being negative" on Tom's ambitious and exciting plans.

Tom, you'll be doing the right thing by talking all this over with your builder. I'm sure if they are solid builder (which it seems like they are), they will address this issue and have you optimized for your intended application.

It'll be cool seeing another ground up build for our Marauder. Many of us will be in the same shoes eventually.

Marauderman
05-14-2005, 07:39 PM
Good info Mac! In fact, I think your assessment, being Marauder specific and much more recent than my own experience, is likely to be closer to the realities Tom will be faced with.

Also, I'm glad I wasn't alone in trying to be helpful by pointing out the trickiness in dropping compression on the 4.6 mod motors. I didn't want to be seen as "being negative" on Tom's ambitious and exciting plans.

Tom, you'll be doing the right thing by talking all this over with your builder. I'm sure if they are solid builder (which it seems like they are), they will address this issue and have you optimized for your intended application.

It'll be cool seeing another ground up build for our Marauder. Many of us will be in the same shoes eventually.
Thanks once again--it's nice hearing from caring MM owners---You all will be keep up to date on my build-up--

I really appreciate what you have to say--I , like so many, am always still learning----and am as anxious as you for the results...Tom