Cabin Noise

[merc]

I have started a new tread as advised by Mac. I thought this might be a interesting discussion since many have modified their exhaust. So what is the difference between noise levels, cabin drone vs. exhaust tone?

Mac states: Cabin noise is vibration based, it's not volume you can mute with an exchange of mufflers, cats of X-pipe. I also said it's not something that's easy to explain.


When my car was new, the sound of the dual exhaust was mild and no drone was apparent from within the cabin area. So a few months later I replaced the O.E.M mufflers with Mac Pathflows. Wow, what a difference in weight and sound. After a couple of weeks, after break-in, I noticed the dreaded 2,000 r.p.m. drone. At forty miles an hour, or just below, I found this sweet spot. So I begin to wonder and ask myself this question. Why were the O.E.M mufflers weighted and seemed heavy in comparison?

As time goes by I enjoyed my louder exhaust, but I wanted just a little bit more. After coming back from one of the N.J. meets, Constable put on a tire shedding demonstration in the parking lot with his steel Kook headers. It left a lasting impression on my mind. A few months later Dennis introduced the 2nd variation of his exhaust system with the cobra manifolds. It boosted a less complicated install, great performance, and O.E. look. I jumped on this product with both feet.

After the new installation was complete, I noticed a louder exhaust tone and increased cabin drone. The guys at the Ford shop (who did the exhaust installation) tested the car with only the manifolds and X-pipe connected. They zoomed around the parking lot thinking they were Jeff Gordon. From what I could hear, this car sounded like one of the Winston Cup cars in Richmond, without the complete exhaust.

So I enjoyed this combination for a year or so, but after completing my stereo upgrade, I feel the need to tone the noise down from within the cabin. I also want to hear my CB radio without the drone in the background.

So hear is my dilemma. What is the most particle way to reduce cabin drone?

[jgc61sr2002]

Ear plugs. :D Sorry Merc jusk kidding. :)

[TooManyFords]

One word...

DYNOMAT

;)

[SergntMac]

Thanks for opening a new thread, merc, now for sure I won't get any chores done today.

I believe you are confusing topics, a)volume, resulting from a change in exhaust components, and b) "cabin drone" that is becomming aduible due to changes in vibration and harmonics of the new exhaust components.

All sound is vibration. Some vibration we hear, other vibration we feel, which is the rationale for adding a "sub woofer" to any stereo system, to amplify sub audio vibration into sound music we can hear, and manipulate. This is the difference I'm trying to explain, sorry for the long post. I said it wasn't easy to explain.

The tone of the MM exhaust system we hear out of the tailpipe, is affected by engine CID. With only 281 CID, this tone is going to lean towards that of any V-8 Mustang, rather than a deeper tone as heard from larger CID engines. It's somewhat on the high side a "deep throaty exhaust" at large, but a tad deeper than Mustangs due to exhaust system length, approximately 4".

Starting at the back, the OEM exhaust system suffered last minute change of adding a resonator to the Meg's tip. I have video tape of the Marauder in design before this change was made, and the exhaust note was very inviting. However, someone got a case of the wussies at the last minute, and needed to quiet the volume. The rationale given us, was to relocate a frequency of vibration that was detectable in the back seat of the MM, to somewhere in the trunk area. Remove the OEM resonator tips, and you'll hear a louder exhaust, but you will also detect a drone in the back seat. Add a 2" collar that extends resonator delete tips past the rear bumper cover, and you'll move this vibration back into the trunk, for now.

Yes, the OEM mufflers are much heavier, because they are triple wall steel construction that reduces vibration, which is important because the mufflers are mounted right under the rear seat passenger's azz. Aftermarket mufflers are not so carefully constructed because their chief objective is to improve CFM exhaust flow. Most do this well and deliver a classic tone too, which has most of us up in arms debating which sounds better. However, this tone is secondary to the aftermarket's goal of cooling exhaust gasses and flowing more air.

Moreover, OEM mufflers have counterweights attached to them, 2" rubber and steel dampners hang off the inside of the muffler and most of us didn't bother to them with our muffler swap. So, for most of us who modified our exhaust with a muffler that is louder than the OEM, also accidently disrupted the harmonics in place, and each MM will have it's own unique sound, and cabin drone, dependent on what was replaced, and how it was installed.

Moving forward from the mufflers, aftermarket exhaust kits replace the OEM 2.0" OD pipes with 2.5" OD pipe. These kits also add high flow cats and X-pipe also in 2.5" OD, replacing our OEM 4 cat and H pipe configuration. The difference in quality of pipe is nil, IMHO, with no effect other than better breathing from larger OD, but let's walk through what we do not often consider.

First, the location of an "H" pipe in the OEM exhaust system is critical to vibration. Where it's located in a front to rear measurement on the frame, will affect what vibration emits into the cabin. Keeping in mind that it's hot exhaust gas collision that generates the vibration we're trying to minimize, as gasses cool, they need less exhaust pipe OD to flow smoothly. The "H" pipe is not a smooth transition, and moving the H pipe towards the rear of the frame will keep this collision (and vibration) in check, more efficiently than it will if the H pipe was moved forward, towarda the front of the vehicle.

The H pipe equalizes pressure and vibration, and the designers chose a location where vibration is at it's minimal. Running the OEM pipes close together in front and then down the center of the car, and locating the H pipe at or neat the end of the center console, keeps everything under the center console, and not under passenger's feet. But, when we replace that OEM design with an aftermarket kit, we upset the designer's effort to control cabin drone in this manner.

The location of the aftermarket X pipe is driven by many concerns. An X pipe is more efficient in moving hot gasses down the pipe, and it scavenges much better than the H pipe it replaces. But, because it brings both pipes together in the center of the floor pan, and then runs them back outside to mate with the mufflers, all passengers get to sample more vibration, where it didn't occur before. And, don't forget the side effect of larger OD pipe, which is that it's fatter, and fits closer to the passenger floor pan. I'm sure controlling vibration isn't a priority in X pipe design, after all if you're messing with these things for improved performance, you're probably looking for something louder anyway, right? But, undercarriage space for larger OD pipe and routing around other fixtures, such as the tranny, and watching ground clearance as well, are stronger considerations when mapping out a new aftermarket exhaust clearance. Vibration and cabin drone is probably the last consideration, if any consideration at all.

High flow cats? I don't see a major affect on vibration here. Other than their increased OD to match the system, the cats I have seen appear to be as well insulated as the OEM cats. But, you should look at where they end up positioned the aftermarket system. Our OEM cats are smaller, with two on each side of the car, tucked up tight and almost into the engine bay itself.

Now look to see where the aftermarket cats end up? Just under the driver/passenger seat as I recall it, and though I consider it minor, high flow cats vibrate too. To sum this up at this point, one thing we are not paying attention to, is that a step up to 2.5"OD pipe throughout the exhaust system, puts it all closer to the cabin floor, allowing more vibration to seep into the cabin, and in places where it did not seep before. At some point as passengers, we all feel this vibration more acutely, and at some point this vibration becomes more audible in the cabin.

For those who move to 3.OD pipe, it will only get worse, or should I say improve? I've already considered 3"OD pipe, and while exhaust performance would rival open headers in gains (in supercharged applications, not N/A), cabin drone may likewise rival open headers in cabin drone. I'd probably love that noise.

About my initial statement that lead to this thread, which I believe merc misunderstands; "headers are louder than manifolds", and I politely stand my ground. Headers won't make one Marauder much louder than another at the tailpipe, provided both have a full stock OEM exhaust system in place. But, by now I hope y'all see that exhaust volume and tone are much different topics than exhaust vibration leading to drone. Both are products of the entire system following the headers, not the headers themselves, and, my remark was about exhaust system changes to harmonics, where headers contribute much more than cast manifolds, much more.

Cast iron manifolds insulate as much as 10X the vibration headers do. They mute exhaust gas collision at it greatest point, coming out of the head. Headers separate these gasses, and if you listen closely, you can hear a "tink" to headers you will not hear from manifolds, and this has been a classic side affect since the first set of headers. However, the exhaust gas collision that creates the most vibration throughout the entire system, occurs in the header collecter, which is now (at least with the Kook's) directly beneath your front seat driver/passenger feet. The collector is now where the cats used to be, and as you rest your feet on the floorboard, you're less than two inches away from the loudest point of any custom exhaust system. Sense new vibration? Indeed.

I've been a front seat passenger in Zack's MM, Logan's MM, Stevengerard's MM, BigJoePs MM, SlowPoke's MM, as well as a passenger in my own MM. My first MM was full OEM exhaust, so is SlowPoke's. Zack and the others names, have Kook's complete system, and my present MM has the complete Cobra manifold system from Reinhart. I can articulate a tingle in my feet through the floorboards, which travels up my bones and resonates in my head. Though it feel neat, this vibration becomes the cabin drone most passengers can hear. Fortunately, most of us like it.

But, some may not. If you want the performance of an improved aftermarket exhaust system, it will bring you new volume out the tailpipe, and new noise in the cabin. If you want a whisper quiet cabin too, invest in some aftermarket soundproofing. I suggest you call TAF at Grand Muffler for the skinny on this, I'm sure he will hook you up. Cabin drone can be healed, if it's bothersome.

Whew! Okay, got my flame suit on, have at it...

[Mike Poore]

So hear is my dilemma. What is the most particle way to reduce cabin drone?It appears the drone can be eliminated by simply making the tips a little longer. Remember when Gordon posted about the welded extensions and resinator deleate project? There were several comments about extending them a wee bit, to clear the rear facia a little, thus eliminating much of the extra cabin noise.

The addition of Dynomat or other sound deadning materials to me, seems counter intuitive. I mean, you add a high performance exhaust to gain power, then add enough sound deadning material to insulate the cabin, thus negating any power gains with the added weight. So, the end game is to make your car loud enough to get noticed by others, meanwhile, you can't stand to drive the damned thing, and have spent a ton of money to get to that point.

Sorry, guys about the rant. Talk to Gordon about the extensions, Mark, I think that's the answer.

[Mike Poore]

Now that I've read SergntMac's excellant explination of what's going on, I'll just go hide, someplace. :bricks:


Color me :o
:hide:

[Bluerauder]

... I can articulate a tingle in my feet through the floorboards, which travels up my bones and resonates in my head...

I'll have to watch out for that problem :rolleyes: Symptoms from the '60s?? :rofl:


... I like it, most of use seem to live with it. But, some may not, and if you want the performance of an improved exhaust kit, but a whisper quiet cabin, invest in some aftermarket soundproofing. I suggest you call TAF at Grand Muffler for the skinny on this, I'm sure he will hook you up. All of this can be healed, if it's bothersome.

Whew! Okay, got my flame suit on, have at it......

Wow, it took a long time to get to the bottom line. So what time is it?? :dunno: I can't remember the original question. ;)

[merc]

It appears the drone can be eliminated by simply making the tips a little longer. Remember when Gordon posted about the welded extensions and resinator deleate project? There were several comments about extending them a wee bit, to clear the rear facia a little, thus eliminating much of the extra cabin noise.

The addition of Dynomat or other sound deadning materials to me, seems counter intuitive. I mean, you add a high performance exhaust to gain power, then add enough sound deadning material to insulate the cabin, thus negating any power gains with the added weight. So, the end game is to make your car loud enough to get noticed by others, meanwhile, you can't stand to drive the damned thing, and have spent a ton of money to get to that point.

Sorry, guys about the rant. Talk to Gordon about the extensions, Mark, I think that's the answer.

Unfortunately I have had my pipes extended about 1.5 inches out for some time. I do like the dynomat idea. I will be at Grand Mufflers in Marietta GA Thursday. I am sure Todd will find ways to decrease my car budget. Thanks for the informative reply Mac. It’s going to take a week to digest all the information, no flame, I am out of propane.

The all clear sign is up Mac :wave:

[Marauderjack]

Ford "Dual Mode" mufflers!!! :beer:

Marauderjack :bows:

[HwyCruiser]

I also suffer from the drone. It's so bad that it often distracts my enjoyment from the rest of the car. I'm about to say bye bye to the Magnaflows.

Heck, I've still got the OEM mufflers w/ dampeners in the basement... might just be the ticket I've been looking for. Now that I've been taking this particular beating for awhile, IMO the DR exhaust sounds pretty sweet with the stock muffs in comparison.

[TooManyFords]

I also suffer from the drone. It's so bad that it often distracts my enjoyment from the rest of the car. I'm about to say bye bye to the Magnaflows.
Cough...[püssy]..Cough...

Sorry, got something stuck... What were you saying again? :P

I know, I know. I'm going!

[Slowpoke]

one slight correction - I've got non-oem mufflers - the Ravens.

[HwyCruiser]

Cough...[püssy]..Cough...

Sorry, got something stuck... What were you saying again? :P

I know, I know. I'm going!

Cough...[attention whore]..Cough... back atcha. :P

How about if I add some electric cutouts around the stock muffs when I put them back on? Yeah, that's the ticket.

:laugh:

[TooManyFords]

Cough...[attention whore]..Cough... back atcha. :P
:laugh:
Touché!

But, to bring this thread back on track if that is at all possible, one has to decide on -who- should hear the rumble of the Marauder. If you want the public to notice you and you want a quiet cabin, then I seriously recommend trying Dynamat in a couple key places under the carpet. It doesn't require a ton of the stuff for effective sound deadening.

With Dynamat installed, the mechanical vibration and airborne noise strike the car floor and the Dynamat. Dynamat transforms the noisy energy--vibration--into silent energy through a process called "Vibro-Acoustic Energy Conversion." Dynamat dissipates the vibro-acoustic energy to a form of low-grade thermal energy. This low-grade thermal energy exists at the molecular level and does not affect the temperature of your computer or car; any change in temperature is well below measurable limits of a standard thermometer.

You only need to place sheets along the path of the source of vibration, in this case the exhaust and mufflers, to achieve your goal. You don't have to spend $300 covering the entire floor and sides. You could and it would sound a quiet as a concert hall, but only Marty can get this done. [wink!]

I'm planning on getting some of this when I pull my carpet to do the drive shaft loop mod.

For more info, check out the dynamat.com web site.

John

[TooManyFords]

Here's something I just picked up on the InTarWeb (and you know, the InTarWeb -never- lies!)

---
I did get a good tip from Todd D'Amico -- when I told him that I was thinking of getting a can of the spray-on sound deadening stuff, he suggested that I look at a can of the undercoating for our cars. Turns out it's almost the exact same thing only a lot cheaper. He said someone he knew put on a loud aftermarket exhaust and couldn't stand the noise. His friend removed the carpeting from the floor and sprayed in the undercoat under the carpeting. It deadened the sound from the exhaust allowing him to enjoy the stereo once again. Thanks for the tip Todd!! I may do this for the floor instead of the Dynamat. I think the Dynamat would be better at sound deadening but the spray on undercoating would be a lot lighter. I guess it depends on how much noise dampening you want.
---
I supposed if you were not too concerned with the appearance of the underside of your MM, you could do the spray undercoating underneath and save the hassle of pulling the carpet. I hesitated to mention this because I would -NEVER- do this myself! I think it is too clean!

.02 and change...

[Mike Poore]

[QUOTE=TooManyFords]Here's something I just picked up on the InTarWeb (and you know, the InTarWeb -never- lies!) QUOTE]

John, wouldn't that undercoating tar stuff stink up the inside of the car, like ...forever?

Thanks for the explination about the Dynomat stuff. I'll bet there's gonna be someone at a booth at Carlisle this weekend, and I'll look 'em up. I know the Cear Bra guys will be there. :)

[TooManyFords]

John, wouldn't that undercoating tar stuff stink up the inside of the car, like ...forever?
Don't know, I've never huffed undercoating before!

:rasta:

[SergntMac]

Don't know, I've never huffed undercoating before!

:rasta:

Hehehe...Makes great chaw, wanna bite?

Seriously...Great 411 on sound proofing, John, thanks. I do have one reservation on the undercoating material. Will this act like a glue with the carpeting?

[TooManyFords]

Hehehe...Makes great chaw, wanna bite?

Seriously...Great 411 on sound proofing, John, thanks. I do have one reservation on the undercoating material. Will this act like a glue with the carpeting?
My guess is that it would. But, thinking outside the box, I'd just wait for it to dry a bit and then cover it in Saran Wrap or some other generic plastic wrap to keep the carpet from sticking to it. In fact, this may just keep the smell down too as long as the wrap was sealed with tape or something.

Me, I'd get the Dynamat and know I got the good stuff. ;)

Cheers!

John

[Donny Carlson]

Now that I've read SergntMac's excellant explination of what's going on, I'll just go hide, someplace. :bricks:


Color me :o
:hide:
I was going to read it, really I was. But I have to be at work in about 10 hours, and I didn't want to have break off before getting to the end of the post.

[Muffrauder]

Dynomat, just ask TAF, his Rauder has a long set of Kooks an X pipe and Magnaflow mufflers and NO drone!! He also Dynomatted his dad's 05 F150 just before I installed a dual outlet Magnaflow and tail pipes on it. Bryan:banana2:

[Donny Carlson]

Dynomat, just ask TAF, his Rauder has a long set of Kooks an X pipe and Magnaflow mufflers and NO drone!! He also Dynomatted his dad's 05 F150 just before I installed a dual outlet Magnaflow and tail pipes on it. Bryan:banana2:
What he said.

By the way, all time best user name. :up: :up:

[SergntMac]

Dynomat, just ask TAF, his Rauder has a long set of Kooks an X pipe and Magnaflow mufflers and NO drone!! He also Dynomatted his dad's 05 F150 just before I installed a dual outlet Magnaflow and tail pipes on it. Bryan:banana2:
Agreed, which is why I suggested folks contact TAF. However, understand this. There will always be a drone, you won't escape that. You just need to prevent it from vibrating into the passenger cabin and becoming audible. Dynamat will cure this, no problem.

Donny...You're too much.

[Muffrauder]

It was nice meeting you today , we will give that MM of your's the hook up with the new headers, I'm so glad you didn't get the Kook's long tube. I did George's last week and it was not fun. Take care and if I don't see you tomorrow have a safe trip home. Bryan :bows:

[Glenn]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but fellows there is an another alternative to good sound and no real cabin drone. Ford Racing Cobra ceramic exhaust headers with Cobra Magnaflow hi-flow X-pipe (#93333) coupled to the OEM mufflers. You may lose 1-2 hp per muffler, but no cabin drone. The sound may not be real loud, but it is noticably louder then stock. Just some advice.

Glenn

[merc]

I have arrived after 10.5 hours of driving at Taf’’s shop (Grand Mufflers) at Marietta Ga. He is going to remove my rusty DR cobra manifolds and install a pair Ford Racing ceramic coated shorty headers. I explained the t exhaust tone problem, which I mentioned at the start of this tread. After reviewing all the recommendations on this tread I felt that insulating the car with Dynomat is the way to go, but I don’t have the green backs yet. Taf is now in possession of my car and credit card. He has not informed me of his plans, but fortunately I have a preset limit on that card.

[rocknrod]

..............install a pair Ford Racing ceramic coated shorty headers. ..........Hey bro, got a part number on those headers ?
Thanks,:D

[SergntMac]

I have arrived after 10.5 hours of driving at Taf’’s shop (Grand Mufflers) at Marietta Ga. He is going to remove my rusty DR cobra manifolds and install a pair Ford Racing ceramic coated shorty headers. I explained the t exhaust tone problem, which I mentioned at the start of this tread. After reviewing all the recommendations on this tread I felt that insulating the car with Dynomat is the way to go, but I don’t have the green backs yet. Taf is now in possession of my car and credit card. He has not informed me of his plans, but fortunately I have a preset limit on that card.
He he he...Gosh, I feel so helpful here, and in this thread too.

ack...You got me here, merc, big time! Hehehe, I love it! High five dude, you're the man!

Y'all have a safe drive home, K?

[Donny Carlson]

Hey bro, got a part number on those headers ?
Thanks,:D
<!--StartFragment --> Ford Racing Parts

M-9430-E465 Shorty Headers for 4.6L 4 valve

I bought mine over the counter at John Bleakley Ford about one year ago.

[Donny Carlson]

<!--StartFragment --> Ford Racing Parts

M-9430-E465 Shorty Headers for 4.6L 4 valve

I bought mine over the counter at John Bleakley Ford about one year ago.
You have two options for x pipe/cats.

1 is to buy the "direct fit" Magnaflow cats/xpipe and have an extension welded behind the cats to clear the cross members (4").

2 is to also buy the direct fit Magnaflow cats/x pipe, but have TAF's shop make up the custom x pipe instead of welding in the extension.

Either way, you'll have an awesome exhaust and definite HP gain.

[GA-Marauder]

I have arrived after 10.5 hours of driving at Taf’’s shop (Grand Mufflers) at Marietta Ga. He is going to remove my rusty DR cobra manifolds and install a pair Ford Racing ceramic coated shorty headers. I explained the t exhaust tone problem, which I mentioned at the start of this tread. After reviewing all the recommendations on this tread I felt that insulating the car with Dynomat is the way to go, but I don’t have the green backs yet. Taf is now in possession of my car and credit card. He has not informed me of his plans, but fortunately I have a preset limit on that card.
Saw your car there today! Spoke to TAF about the Dynamat, the scoop is that to do the entire bottom from trunk to front, it takes about 2 bulk packages of Dynamat. Each package contains 9 sheets and covers about 39 square feet. As far as weight goes, according to the website www.sounddomain.com (http://www.sounddomain.com), each package has a shipping weight of 30 pounds. So if you did the whole enchilida, and used every bit of the packages, you'd add about 60 pounds give or take. TAF's car has it, and has a very quiet cabin, even with the Kooks and Magnaflows, no drone. I'm seriously considering it, and just plan on going on a diet to compensate.:bs:

[merc]

It was nice meeting you today , we will give that MM of your's the hook up with the new headers, I'm so glad you didn't get the Kook's long tube. I did George's last week and it was not fun. Take care and if I don't see you tomorrow have a safe trip home. Bryan :bows:

Hello Bryan and welcome to the M.M.net. You guys have a great shop and a very friendly crew. I look forward to seeing how you pimped my exhaust.
:pimp:

[dflynn5]

I had this installed in a 99 Mustang GT and it made a significant difference. Not enough for me to live with the car tho. The roadnoise on freeways was the no.1 reason I sold it.

[dflynn5]

SergntMac.

That was a great post. Can you do another one for Intake?

[merc]

The exhaust is done. I have re-moved the DR cobra manifolds and modified the x-pipe. The aluminum coated 4' pipe was replace with 409 stainless steel. The old Mac Pathflow mufflers were dropped for Magnaflows. All exhaust pipes are now level and pure stainless from front to rear. The sound is fantastic, and the workmanship is grade A. I will have dyno numbers Saturday night.

[GA-Marauder]

The exhaust is done. I have re-moved the DR cobra manifolds and modified the x-pipe. The aluminum coated 4' pipe was replace with 409 stainless steel. The old Mac Pathflow mufflers were dropped for Magnaflows. All exhaust pipes are now level and pure stainless from front to rear. The sound is fantastic, and the workmanship is grade A. I will have dyno numbers Saturday night.
TAF/Grand Muffler does great work..I concur!:D Let us know what your gains are. I saw your car up on the lift, what a mess the old setup was, I'm sure you will be pleased with the results.:beer:

[Donny Carlson]

The exhaust is done. I have re-moved the DR cobra manifolds and modified the x-pipe. The aluminum coated 4' pipe was replace with 409 stainless steel. The old Mac Pathflow mufflers were dropped for Magnaflows. All exhaust pipes are now level and pure stainless from front to rear. The sound is fantastic, and the workmanship is grade A. I will have dyno numbers Saturday night.
Those Ford Racing shorty headers are nice, aren't they? I never fail to get comments about them when I show the engine bay to admirers. Even Steve Babcock commented on them when he saw them. Enjoy!

[merc]

Well I am almost home, and I have been ripping up the Southern interest state highways. The exhaust new exhaust system is great. One Trucker commented on the CB "Damm those pipe are sweet, you scared the sh** out of me when you passed, what type of motor is in that thing". Reply: “ It’s a Mercury Briggs and Stratton".

[MarauderMark]

Nice job :up: Can't wait to see and hear it..

[Lowndex]

http://www.dynamat.com/

The most effective way to reduce road, engine and all external noise sources is to install Dynamat in your floor boards and door panels. Now, if you have someone do the installation, you are looking at $600-1200.00 to remove your seats and carpet, install the Dynamat and re-install your seats and carpet. And you better go somewhere they have done the work many times (a top rated car stereo shop in your area). Else, you will get saggy carpet.

The door panels are no a problem, but do require a technicican (or yourself) that is gentle on removing the door panels. Get a 16 year-old who jerks the door panels off and the clips are ruined and must be replaced.

My friend spent $1200.00 installing Dynamat Xtreme in his floor boards and door panels in his 2000 Ford Mustang, which allows too much road noise in the cabon. When he was done, the interior sounded as quiet as your Daddy's Buick. Well, except when the suoercharger kicked in - hehehehe...

[KillJoy]

This is an alternative to Dynamat. Equal to, if not better quality, at a MUCH better price:

http://www.edesignaudio.com/category.php?type=damp

KillJoy

PS - POST 200!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ckadiddle]

Excellent writeup, Mac. Thanks for taking the time to type it all in. Very informative and pretty much understandable by non-gearheads like me.