G D vibration!

[Magicape]

I'm still getting a washboard like front end vibration around 80 M/Hr after new tires, perfect alignment, and three balances--balance is perfect.
Somewhere I read about "pre loading" the steering which solved the problem. Anybody know how this is done or adjusted? Talked to the local dealer and have an appointment next week but I have low expectations from them. Service manager told me that Ford does not warrentee for speeds above the speed limit when I told him it was worse at 80. I'm afaid they'll screw around with the alignment and balance and make things worse! The vibration is harmonic--coming and going every 1-2 seconds or so. Thanks for any input--Hank

[Magicape]

I'm still getting a washboard like front end vibration around 80 M/Hr after new tires, perfect alignment, and three balances--balance is perfect.
Somewhere I read about "pre loading" the steering which solved the problem. Anybody know how this is done or adjusted? Talked to the local dealer and have an appointment next week but I have low expectations from them. Service manager told me that Ford does not warrentee for speeds above the speed limit when I told him it was worse at 80. I'm afaid they'll screw around with the alignment and balance and make things worse! The vibration is harmonic--coming and going every 1-2 seconds or so. Thanks for any input--Hank
Maybe "washboard" is the wrong description--the steering wheel vibrates back and forth--feels just like a front tire out of balance, but not, and it's harmonic--

[Marauderjack]

Mine does the same damn thing!!!! :mad2: I have never gotten the ride out of the second set of tires that I got from the factory ones!!! :confused:

I have had mine balanced twice and on the machine they look fine...at 75-80 MPH the vibration comes and goes about every couple of seconds and sometimes goes away completely for 30 seconds or so??? :confused:

I think some of the guys have had them "Road Force" balanced which takes into account "hard spots" in the tires and treats them as a heavy spot...makes sense but nobody around here knows what I'm talking about!!! :bigcry:

Marauderjack :(

[Magicape]

Mine does the same damn thing!!!! :mad2: I have never gotten the ride out of the second set of tires that I got from the factory ones!!! :confused:

I have had mine balanced twice and on the machine they look fine...at 75-80 MPH the vibration comes and goes about every couple of seconds and sometimes goes away completely for 30 seconds or so??? :confused:

I think some of the guys have had them "Road Force" balanced which takes into account "hard spots" in the tires and treats them as a heavy spot...makes sense but nobody around here knows what I'm talking about!!! :bigcry:

Marauderjack :(I've heard about the road force balance. Basically, as I see it, with this suspension set up minor out of balance will be felt--but mine is dead nuts, and the curious thing is the harmonics--this would not happen with a normal balance problem--others have commented on it. Someone wrote about a dealer changing the "pre load" on the steering and the problem went away. I wonder if it has anything to do with the self adjusting steering feel dependent on speed?

[MERCMAN]

Had the same problem at 80 MPH. Got all 4 tires Road-Force balanced, had the alignment preformed to MARAUDER specs,(available here on the site). The vibration disappeared after that. Hope this helps. Be positive that the alignment is Marauder specs, NOT GM.

[Magicape]

Had the same problem at 80 MPH. Got all 4 tires Road-Force balanced, had the alignment preformed to MARAUDER specs,(available here on the site). The vibration disappeared after that. Hope this helps. Be positive that the alignment is Marauder specs, NOT GM.Could you feel the harmonics--the vibration coming and going? The alignment is Marauder spec.

[MERCMAN]

Could you feel the harmonics--the vibration coming and going? The alignment is Marauder spec.

The best way to describe it would be a vibration around 80, after that speed it would never completely diasappear, but it would "come and go". If that is what you are referring to as harmonics, then yes I felt it. The balance took care of it.

BTW didn't Alvin from the Chipmunks have a harmonics problem?? :rofl:

[Magicape]

The best way to describe it would be a vibration around 80, after that speed it would never completely diasappear, but it would "come and go". If that is what you are referring to as harmonics, then yes I felt it. The balance took care of it.

BTW didn't Alvin from the Chipmunks have a harmonics problem?? :rofl:OK, I give up. Have an apointment to road force balance Saturday am. I'll report results on Monday. Still can't rationalize why the harmonics and why a balance problem would cause that---???

[SergntMac]

OK, I give up. Have an apointment to road force balance Saturday am. I'll report results on Monday. Still can't rationalize why the harmonics and why a balance problem would cause that---???
Well, this seems to be the way it is with a full frame automobile with the performance profile of our suspension. It's a new design for the Panther beginning in '03, and every design has what somone could call a flaw, or side affect. On our MMs, even a rear tire out of balance will telegraph forward, and up into your hands, mirrors, and so on.

Rack and pinion steering is by far the best design for our cars, yet it's side affect is that while you have a better feel for the road, you get more feedback from the road, and points in between you and the road. If you really come to need to adjust the rack, it's coverd by a '98 TSB on the Mark VIII, your dealer should be able to look it up.

[Pantherman]

[QUOTE=Magicape]I'm still getting a washboard like front end vibration around 80 M/Hr after new tires, perfect alignment, and three balances--balance is perfect.

Are you really sure you have perfect balance, or are you just trusting the techs output from an out of calibration machine. I doubt that low mesh load on your rack and pinion would cause anything as severe as what you describe. To cause the type harmonic interaction you mention, I think you would need multiple vibration sources coming in and out of phase. Assuming you do have perfect balance, one way this could happen would be to have an out of round tire and wheel combination on at least one front and one rear corner. Because of their different diameters, the front and rear wheels turn at different speeds. That means front and rear vibrations in the vertical plane would sometimes be additive and sometimes they would be trying to cancel each other out. If this is the problem, a good road force balance should catch it.

[David Morton]

So many misconceptions, so little time. *sigh*

The first law of automotive vibration says that ALL vibrations on cars are caused by things that are spinning. DOH! (Ga-aw-lee, Sargent Carter, I never woulda guessed it!) :D

Roadforce balancer. Sounds really high tech, right? Well it's not. It's a tire balancer that has a roadforce measuring attachment on it, and programming for the computer to use it. The new machine from Hunter now has a drum for the tire to roll against at slow speed. The tech moves it up against the tire and locks it in place and turns on the machine which then measures the resistance of the slow roll it induces to detect any hard spots in the tire. If there are any, the tire must be discarded! It will never be alright and there is no way to balance out the hard spot. This is a relatively rare condition, especially with these high dollar tires.

Out-of-round tire/wheel assembly. Ususally this is felt at a certain speed, 55-65 mph on most passenger car tires, provided they're properly balanced. Before it, smooth as glass, after it, still nothing. But at that certain speed, a steady continuous vibration (with one out-of-round tire). I've never had the occasion to see this in a low profile tire, but I suppose the speed for this type could be higher.

Vectoring is where the high spot of the tire is matched (aka, vectored) to the low spot of the rim. (If a tire or rim is out of specs, they must be replaced.) The new Hunter machine tells the tech where the high and low spots are, but he must dismount and remount the tire to match them up. More work. I always used to just find the low spot of the rim before I put the tire on and used the blue dot indication for the high spot of the tire (a DOT requirement) to vector mount. If your tires are not vectored properly, a R/F balancer will fix your problem, as well as check for a bad tire.

Harmonic vibration. This happens when something vibrates, perhaps not noticeably, at a frequency that causes some other component, like a steering wheel or column to vibrate noticeably, like a tuning fork. The steering wheel has a harmonic "sound", a specific frequency, that if slighly induced by a matching frequency, like from a tire or the engine, will cause it to "wake up" and vibrate. Adjusting the rack pre-load would change it's frequency as well, but it still would have to be something else (that's spinning) causing the "seed" vibration. That this vibration you have "comes and goes" tells me you have two things, each vibrating a little that converge at times adding up to a lot of vibration that comes and goes. This is called a harmonic convergence.

In the final analysis it sounds to me like you're getting a run-around by a tire shop that either doesn't know what it's doing or is trying to blow you off rather than fix their mistake.

Before you got the tires, no vibrations, right? Then right after you get the tires, this condition you describe all of the sudden appears and somebody's saying what?- the rack is bad? I'm sorry, why do new tires expose a bad rack? Go back to where you bought the tires and demand satisfaction. I cut my mechanics teeth on front-end alignments and tires and I have never seen alignments or steering components cause vibrations of any kind. Vibrations are always caused by round things that spin fast. Duh! Also, a tire balancer that is off it's calibration won't balance the tire, if the guy using it is using it properly. He should put the weights on and spin it again to check it. If the machine is off, it'll tell him that tire needs more weights, ad infinitum, and he'll know something's wrong with the machine. My guess is the tires aren't mounted right, given they've checked the balance and say it's right. Out-of-round wheel assemblies sounds likely.

Anyway the tires are the problem! And don't go to that dealership that says it doesn't warrantee for speeds in excess of the speed limit. A statement like that is just setting you up so they don't have to fix your problem. First off, you don't have to exceed the speed limit to properly install and balance tires designed to go 148 mph. If they vibrate at 80 or higher, they're not right at 65 either. You might not notice it on the car but the equipment they use to do the job ought to. Balancers go to 1/4 oz, some even measure tenths. It takes a lot more than that to shake the tire at 80. Mine goes 120 and is smooth as a baby's ass and I got mine installed at Firestone on a dinosaur of a tire balancer (not a roadforce machine) with the guy eye-balling the placement of the weights!

Secondly, if he says something like that to a Marauder owner, you don't want to do business with him in the first place. Ask him if the initials F.O. mean anything to him. :D

[David Morton]

[QUOTE=Magicape]... To cause the type harmonic interaction you mention, I think you would need multiple vibration sources coming in and out of phase. ...Very good observation Pantherman. Do you suppose it could be TWO tires not properly mounted and/or balanced?

Too easy. :lol:

[TooManyFords]

I've had the same problem with my tires, even after having the fronts road-force balanced. I watched the tech at the machine and when the first tire came up "marginal" (but within specs) I knew I was in trouble. But what can you do? Tire Rack will only take the tire back if it fails. Marginal is ok in their book.

I will NEVER buy BFGs again. Period. So far thay have all failed in one way or another.

Again, this is my humble opinion and please don't flame me for it.

David, great 411 on tire balancing. My next set with the custom rims will be correct in every way.

Cheers

John

[Marauderjack]

Ahem...... :mad:

I have gone on several tire manufacturer's site and NOBODY makes these damn sizes...especially the rears!! :mad2:

I have even thought of putting the fronts in the rear and buying a bit smaller tire for the front to keep the TC and ABS happy but cannot find anything that will look good!! :argue:

I guess I could go to 17" CV Sport wheels and the options would be more numerous?? I wonder why Ford made this mess?? There had to be other options!! The BFG rears are crappy......end of story!! :(

Any ideas??

Marauderjack :shake:

[MM03MOK]

David - excellent information. Please feel free to copy to the Reviews section for further reference. Also add the correct Marauder alignment specs so we have a place to point folks for answers to these ever-popular questions. Thank you!!

[Magicape]

Wow, what a weath of good info!!!! Dave, thanks for spending so much time.

I'm pretty confident about the capability and intention of Cape Tire Service in Hyannis. They gladly rebalanced for me two times and offered to do the RF balance no charge. They've bent over backwards and I have the experience to know they know their stuff, so I might just pay them anyway if the RF does it! I'm beginning to think these tires have a generic problem.

Up to now I thought with the RF there was then corrective action, but as I read what Dave wrote, it just determines if the tires are good or ng--right? What's the standard that measures if they're in tolerance or not?

I've got a set of Cooper winter tires that are not too agressive on MM rims, and may go to the effort to put them on for a day as a comparison.

By the way, I've only had this car about three weeks and noticed the vibration with the original tires--the rears were worn almost to the tread gauge and the fronts had plenty of tread with the inside wear--this is why I bought new ones rather than waiting until the fall.

[David Morton]

David - excellent information. Please feel free to copy to the Reviews section for further reference. Also add the correct Marauder alignment specs so we have a place to point folks for answers to these ever-popular questions. Thank you!!How do I do that?

I've sent long exhaustive informational messages to several guys in PM's about my brakes and other stuff. I like sharing my factory training with the guys, I get so much more from this site than I give that I feel like I owe the guys something in return. (Nothing personal Logan but you have vendors here and I won't donate or pay dues to a site that has vendors)

Since there's no vendor here paying Logan to sell the KVRs, I try to respect the other one (Hi TAF!) so I've been keeping most of my advice on that topic to the PMs. Uh oh! Guess I'm gonna regret that comment, but I'm keeping it in because anybody that bought a Marauder has to be an all-right guy in my book, so we're like brothers.

And that goes for you too, BillyGman. Ya big galoot! :D

[David Morton]

...By the way, I've only had this car about three weeks and noticed the vibration with the original tires...Well well well. Now the plot thickens. With the new tires...

Did the vibration change? Speed when it occurs change? Harmonic convergence change? Violence of it change? If not, the tires are probably OK.

"Washboard" descriptions of vibrations I often found to be driveline oriented. This one's an SVT trained technicians' domain. How many miles? Any oil or grease on the engine/transmission mounts? Are the U-joints in good shape? Any damage to the propshaft itself?

Many questions unasked. This one's a job for...

...UNDERDOG! :rolleyes:

Hey wait a minute! You're that guy that called the shop and wanted me to tell him how to fix his car over the phone!

:lol:

God won't do it. Why should I try?

[Bradley G]

I had the Harmonic shaking for several months,

I looked up and posted TSB's that I thought may help.
I was a test pilot for this issue, The dealer I purchaced from, tried the preload adjustment a few times, body mounts, several wheel Balance tries.They swaped wheels and tires from another new Marauder, for me to drive on and compare.
Ford authorized two new front tires under warranty, however , it was not until these new tires were Road force balanced till the issue was solved.
I have a very little bit of shaking now, but this is due to the inner tire wear for it does not have the rythm of the shake like before.
But because I proved the dealer was wrong, about my service history,(They would not help me with the revised alignment specs) They won't call me or e-mail me anymore!
They never could admit, :bs: a mistake.
Bradley G

[pops Glancy]

Hank:

I had the same basic problem with my car but after two different sets of front tires it was resolved I had recieved bad tires from goodrich both new sets were out of round and had belt shifting issues. I don't know how long you have had your car but the tire wear is a big problem I am on the my 6th set in 53,000 miles.

Geo:beer:




I'm still getting a washboard like front end vibration around 80 M/Hr after new tires, perfect alignment, and three balances--balance is perfect.
Somewhere I read about "pre loading" the steering which solved the problem. Anybody know how this is done or adjusted? Talked to the local dealer and have an appointment next week but I have low expectations from them. Service manager told me that Ford does not warrentee for speeds above the speed limit when I told him it was worse at 80. I'm afaid they'll screw around with the alignment and balance and make things worse! The vibration is harmonic--coming and going every 1-2 seconds or so. Thanks for any input--Hank

[Magicape]

Well well well. Now the plot thickens. With the new tires...

Did the vibration change? Speed when it occurs change? Harmonic convergence change? Violence of it change? If not, the tires are probably OK.

"Washboard" descriptions of vibrations I often found to be driveline oriented. This one's an SVT trained technicians' domain. How many miles? Any oil or grease on the engine/transmission mounts? Are the U-joints in good shape? Any damage to the propshaft itself?

Many questions unasked. This one's a job for...

...UNDERDOG! :rolleyes:

Hey wait a minute! You're that guy that called the shop and wanted me to tell him how to fix his car over the phone!

:lol:

God won't do it. Why should I try?
No, I never called you. Everything else seems fine, except I've not yet looked at the drive shaft but will. "Washboard" is probably the wrong description. Vibration in steering wheel only. I can see the corner of the hood fluttering and with high beams on you can see the vibration against highway signs. The car is about to turn 30K. I have a 1993 Volvo 965 that I bought as a total and rebuilt--it now has 205K--struts and shocks are Bilstien. Pushing on the front of the Volvo vs the MM the Volvo is much stiffer. There is no "bounce" to the MM but the front end seems soft--I wonder if better shocks would calm things down. Anyway, Saturday the RF balance and I go from there--tHANKs

[Magicape]

After reading all of this I just sent a friendly mail to BFG Engineering and Warrentee Departments, suggesting they read this thread--let's see if they reply--

[Magicape]

No, I never called you. Everything else seems fine, except I've not yet looked at the drive shaft but will. "Washboard" is probably the wrong description. Vibration in steering wheel only. I can see the corner of the hood fluttering and with high beams on you can see the vibration against highway signs. The car is about to turn 30K. I have a 1993 Volvo 965 that I bought as a total and rebuilt--it now has 205K--struts and shocks are Bilstien. Pushing on the front of the Volvo vs the MM the Volvo is much stiffer. There is no "bounce" to the MM but the front end seems soft--I wonder if better shocks would calm things down. Anyway, Saturday the RF balance and I go from there--tHANKs
Forgot to say--as soon as I had the problem with the original tires, and I'd only had the car for a few days, saw the inside front wear and immediatlly decided new tires and alignment were in order. I don't remember noticing the harmonics. Knew nothing about the cronic problem many others have had.

[MM03MOK]

How do I do that?

Done......

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/reviews/showproduct.php/product/31/sort/7/cat/18/page/1

[Magicape]

I had the Harmonic shaking for several months,

I looked up and posted TSB's that I thought may help.
I was a test pilot for this issue, The dealer I purchaced from, tried the preload adjustment a few times, body mounts, several wheel Balance tries.They swaped wheels and tires from another new Marauder, for me to drive on and compare.
Ford authorized two new front tires under warranty, however , it was not until these new tires were Road force balanced till the issue was solved.
I have a very little bit of shaking now, but this is due to the inner tire wear for it does not have the rythm of the shake like before.
But because I proved the dealer was wrong, about my service history,(They would not help me with the revised alignment specs) They won't call me or e-mail me anymore!
They never could admit, :bs: a mistake.
Bradley GLooks like that if there were a poll or vote as to what the solution should be the RF balance would win hands down--

[MM03MOK]

Looks like that if there were a poll or vote as to what the solution should be the RF balance would win hands down--Hank - it certainly made a difference in our car. Lighthouse Ford used the RFB and found that the brand new BFG had a hard spot. Cape & Islands Tire replaced the tire without issue.

[Magicape]

I just got a mail from BFG telling me they were not having problems with their tires and the MM. I replied and said that they may not be having problems but their customers are! Maybe we should organize a cruise to Akron and circle their headquarters until we get results--

[Magicape]

Problem solved! Saturday we did the RFB. One rear rim was out a bit but not too bad and I had an extra. About half the vibration was gone and no harmonics. Sunday I dis-assembled both front wheel assemblies and really cleaned the mating surfaces up. Found one caliper hub with a high spot that I was able to dress up, and--vola! Thanks all for your imput--

[RF Overlord]

So I guess this means you'll be keeping the car after all? Marsha will be relieved... :lol:

[SergntMac]

Since there's no vendor here paying Logan to sell the KVRs, I try to respect the other one (Hi TAF!) so I've been keeping most of my advice on that topic to the PMs.
Doesn't Dennis Reinhart sell KVR brake kits?

[Logan]

How do I do that?

I've sent long exhaustive informational messages to several guys in PM's about my brakes and other stuff. I like sharing my factory training with the guys, I get so much more from this site than I give that I feel like I owe the guys something in return. (Nothing personal Logan but you have vendors here and I won't donate or pay dues to a site that has vendors)

Since there's no vendor here paying Logan to sell the KVRs
Reinhart Automotive is a KVR reseller.

PM's are no different than any other form of communication on this site. If you're using the PM System to circumvent vendor rules on this site, well, that's going to be just as frowned upon. Do we check the PM system for violations? Generally speaking, Nope. But thanks for letting me know.

As for your quip about vendor support, do what you want, you're right in saying that the vendor support pays the basic bills, it does, albeit barely. We don't demand the users support the site and never have.

Those who support the site do so because they appreciate the value of the resource. Every penny received gets re-invested in the site, I've got nothing to be ashamed about.

[Bradley G]

The resoruces here are endless!

I do support where I can!:o :twocents:
Glad you were able to fix your car quickly!
Manufactures are not going to admit to having a problem, unless thier hand is burning!:flamer:
Bradley G

Problem solved! Saturday we did the RFB. One rear rim was out a bit but not too bad and I had an extra. About half the vibration was gone and no harmonics. Sunday I dis-assembled both front wheel assemblies and really cleaned the mating surfaces up. Found one caliper hub with a high spot that I was able to dress up, and--vola! Thanks all for your imput--

[Magicape]

So I guess this means you'll be keeping the car after all? Marsha will be relieved... :lol:I'm so happy I might get a second one--

[MM03MOK]

I'm so happy I might get a second one--A silver one, perchance? ;)

[David Morton]

Reinhart Automotive is a KVR reseller.

PM's are no different than any other form of communication on this site. If you're using the PM System to circumvent vendor rules on this site, well, that's going to be just as frowned upon. Do we check the PM system for violations? Generally speaking, Nope. But thanks for letting me know.

As for your quip about vendor support, do what you want, you're right in saying that the vendor support pays the basic bills, it does, albeit barely. We don't demand the users support the site and never have.

Those who support the site do so because they appreciate the value of the resource. Every penny received gets re-invested in the site, I've got nothing to be ashamed about.I stand corrected. I got mine on a "group buy" Dennis ran last year and misunderstood.

I do appreciate your site and think you should be proud of your service to our community of owners of this very special car. My policy of not donating to vendor supported sites is just that, a policy, and I personally think you should be making money from it. That you say you aren't is testimony of your service to the guys here and to that I say...

Everbody! Three cheers for Logan!

Hip hip, hooray!

Hip hip, hooray!

Hip hip, hooray!

:D

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

My MM has the front end shimmy too. It's been re aligned several times to my specs, no change. New tires, new wheels ($$$$$$$$$), several road force balances later, still shimmies if you get it at just the right speed. And it's cyclic. The only thing that has stayed constant is the type of tire -- the really super awful KDWs. It's gotta be these horrible tires. Since I have a tuner I am going to break down and buy a matched set of 4 good quality tires at some point. The not-that-old replacement rear KDWs are wearing at an alarming rate w/ highway only driving, no burnouts, no blasting off w/ them. I think they are made out of recycled, compressed, ... well never mind what I think.

G-dammit.

[RF Overlord]

VEB, why don't you tell us how you really feel about the tires? :D

What pressure are you running in the rears? It's been found that using the Ford-recommended pressure causes the middles to wear at an elevated rate. You need to increase (that's right, increase) the pressure to 38 or more to even the wear. Apparently the tire "balloons" at highway speeds...this phenomenon has even been corroborated on the BFG web site.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I set everything at 30 or 32 cold. Are you talking about 38 hot, or 38 cold?

I am still getting rid of them shortly. These are not the first BFGs that could not be road force balanced to not shake. I went through 2 sets of BFG traction TA's on another car after going through the same mess -buying new alloy wheels at like $300/piece, roadforcing, aligning every couple months, etc, still having the steering pulse at speed.

[Local Boy]

38 cold...(front & rears)

Works great!

ALOHA

[Marauderjack]

38 cold...(front & rears)

Works great!

ALOHA

Correction.....works "better"!!!:rolleyes: You will get better wear out of very crappy tires!!!:shake:

The pulsing vibration at highway speeds drove me crazy......Nitto NT-555's DO NOT have this vibration and wear 3X better than the BFG's!!!

I really wish the folks at Ford had thought more about numerous tire options rather than the ONE the came up with.....but if that's the only complaint I have about the car....I really can't complain!!!:beer:

Marauderjack:D

[Pantherman]

Two things can be responsible for detectable vibration--input and sensitivity. We usually attack input and forget sensitivity. If you are convinced your rotating stuff is round and balanced, you may want to look at sensitivity (loose steering rack/shaft/column, suspension, instrument panel or grounded body mounts).

[RF Overlord]

I set everything at 30 or 32 cold. Are you talking about 38 hot, or 38 cold?38 cold.

30 or 32 cold is too low. Even Ford realised this and raised the recommended pressure from 32 to 35 for the '04s. It took a while for us to figure out that even 35 was too little for the rears. Those "in the know" normally run 38-40, some even more, but I find the ride becomes unacceptable above 38. I keep the fronts at 35.

[Bluerauder]

Those "in the know" normally run 38-40, some even more, but I find the ride becomes unacceptable above 38. I keep the fronts at 35.
Me too. 35 psi front and 38 psi rear.

Even the Road Force Balance can be botched up. My last set of front tires was mounted about 18 months ago. A day after the new front tires were balanced, I had to take a trip up to Baltimore (about 200 miles round trip). Along the way, I noticed a vibration right at the 75-80 MPH mark.

Upon returning, I called the dealer and told them it wasn't right and took it in for a rebalance. Something wasn't done correctly the first time around or it threw one of the sticky weights because the rim wasn't cleaned properly before applying them. I guess most people don't notice, don't care, or won't say anything about it. I am not one of those people.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yeah I was personally there when the tires were road forced all times, it's not the balance that is a problem. I also personally rechecked them on a machine that I have use of. If a shop won't let me watch the tech, I go somewhere else. These rims are too expensive to leave alone.

[Blackened300a]

Vibrations drive me crazy and I do everything I can to track them down and eliminate them. Heres my list of vibrations and what the causes were..

I installed 4.10s and had a vibration 45mph-80mph.
Cause- The rear rotor was frozen onto the axle and I had to use a hammer to remove it, This damaged the rotor. I replaced all 4 rotors and the vibration went away.

I installed new tires and even after balancing I had a subtle vibration at highway speeds
Cause- The yo yo who replaced the tires and balanced them didnt do a great job scraping the adhesive off where the old weights were on the rims. I cleaned the insides of the rims very carefully and had them re-balanced. There was a couple ounce difference on all rims. After the re-balance the vibration went away.

For no reason what so ever a vibration started from 35-50 MPH range
Cause- Balance weight flew off. Had tire rebalanced and vibration went away.

I replaced sway bars and had a vibration around 75-85MPH
Cause- Driver side sway bar end link loosened up. I tightened everything up again and the vibration has gone away.

So far so good.

[lifespeed]

My MM has the front end shimmy too. It's been re aligned several times to my specs, no change. New tires, new wheels ($$$$$$$$$), several road force balances later, still shimmies if you get it at just the right speed. And it's cyclic. The only thing that has stayed constant is the type of tire -- the really super awful KDWs. It's gotta be these horrible tires. Since I have a tuner I am going to break down and buy a matched set of 4 good quality tires at some point. The not-that-old replacement rear KDWs are wearing at an alarming rate w/ highway only driving, no burnouts, no blasting off w/ them. I think they are made out of recycled, compressed, ... well never mind what I think.

G-dammit.

All the high-speed tire and wheel info has been good. But if you can't get that vibration to go away and you're sure you're tires/wheels are round/balanced don't forget to look for slop in your tie rods and steering rack.

Lifespeed

[hbarrett]

I have had the steering wheel vibrations since about 20k miles, just after I realigned to the "carfixer alighment spec", nothing before that. I blamed the somewhat worn original tires, and bought all new tires from the dealer, made no difference. The Ford service tech was brought in from Virginia to diagnose the problem, and he decided to replace three of the four wheels, no change. I had the alignment checked at three different alignment shops, and road force balanced at least six times at four tire shops (in two states), no change. Recently had the dealer try the TB for the rack preload adjustment, no change. By the way, the TB is for a body bushing torgue adjustment, not steering rack preload. That is a diffent type of service notice for MMs built within a certain time period. I have spent hundreds of dollars chasing this problem, and nothing solves it. I called customer service for BFG, but they refused to discuss it, suggested that only a tire dealer could determine if it's the tires, but the reality is that they can't understand the problem either. One time I spoke with Dennis Rinehart about it, and he suggest a lightweight driveshaft - more hundreds of dollars. I am beginning to believe that the BFG tires are absolutely no good, and likely, they are the culprit, but what can we do?
After reading all of this I just sent a friendly mail to BFG Engineering and Warrentee Departments, suggesting they read this thread--let's see if they reply--

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

hbarret, I am (slightly) comforted that I am not the only one who has spent a fortune chasing the minor high speed vibe on this car. The driveshaft is not the issue at 60 mph, w/ the vibration in the steering only and not the body. You will feel a driveshaft vibe (which I've had before w/ balance problems) in the chassis as well as the steering.

I will report back once I toss the KDWs for something better

[Marauderjack]

BFG tires ARE the problem!!!!:argue::mad2:

Get some different tires and see!!!:beer:

[RF Overlord]

BFG tires ARE the problemI've had 2 sets of stock BFGs on The Blackbird and no vibrations to speak of.

...or maybe I'm just not hyper-picky.

I did have a steering wheel vibration when Phoebe was first acquired. Turned out the Pirelli Direzionale tires on the front were swapped L/R. I put them so they rotated in the correct direction and the vibration was gone.

[Bowman9]

I thought I might be the only one with this problem too.
My stock tires from the factory were perfectly fine no problems.
But when I replaced them with the same BFG's after they wore out that is when my problem started. Some where around 70 to 80 mph the front end wants to shimmy a little, like a strong wind is trying to blow my car off the road. I had them rebalanced with no real changes.

So from what I am reading here it might be the brand of tires, I guess next time around I will be trying a different brand and go with a 255/50-18 in the rear in place of a 245/50-18, only a minor difference in height.

[Marauderjack]

I've had 2 sets of stock BFGs on The Blackbird and no vibrations to speak of.

...or maybe I'm just not hyper-picky.

I did have a steering wheel vibration when Phoebe was first acquired. Turned out the Pirelli Direzionale tires on the front were swapped L/R. I put them so they rotated in the correct direction and the vibration was gone.


If you spend hours at highway speeds driving on different surfaces.....what you think was surface feedback all of a sudden gets on your nerves and you realize it is the darn pulsing minor vibration!!!:mad2:

I had it with all replacement BFG's and do not have it with the Nittos...so I think it is the BFG's??:confused:

It's funny how these little irritations always seem to manifest themselves at THE SPEED YOU WANT TO GO!!!!:argue:

Marauderjack:cool:

[burt ragio]

I have had the same vibration through the steiring wheel from day one after driveing off the dealers lot. I to chalked it up at the time thinking a wheel weight fell off and needed to be rebalanced. I went through the same as many other marauder owners have in trying to chase the problem and found no satifactory results. Cleaned wheel hubs, rebalanced three times with RF, torque mounted wheels, checked alienment. I to have come to the conclusion in agreement the culprit is the OEM BFG tires. In the spring a will try another brand since the rears are running thin. To bad since the front tires still have some miles left.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yeah when you road force the tires and wheels are measured for out of round, that is not it. I am going to end up taking off a set of front KDWs w/ 2k miles on them but that is life. I am almost tempted to change wheel size because of tire availability. If the stock wheels didn't look so damn good, I would downsize to 17s for better availability.

[Bowman9]

I was considering 17" rims too, if I can't find an all season 255/55-18 (or equal) to replace the BHG's

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

If I could find a bolt on set of 17s that looked close to our wheels, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I know the new body style Mustangs have a bulgy 5 spoke that is "torque thrust" -style, that isn't all that dissimilar to our wheels, in that it's 5 spoke and bright polished / clear coated. I don't know if they are 17s or 18s though. I know going down to a 17 will induce more sidewall flex, but honestly, sidewall flex from a slightly taller tire on a 4200 lb boat with so much body roll from the stock suspension, is not going to be the limiting factor for handling by a long shot.

CRAP, here are the wheels I was thinking of: http://www.lakeshorewheelandtire.com/wheels/3648.JPG

Also 18x8.5s, so that wouldn't help me. Dammit!

[airborne_mp84]

I'm still getting a washboard like front end vibration around 80 M/Hr after new tires, perfect alignment, and three balances--balance is perfect.
Somewhere I read about "pre loading" the steering which solved the problem. Anybody know how this is done or adjusted? Talked to the local dealer and have an appointment next week but I have low expectations from them. Service manager told me that Ford does not warrentee for speeds above the speed limit when I told him it was worse at 80. I'm afaid they'll screw around with the alignment and balance and make things worse! The vibration is harmonic--coming and going every 1-2 seconds or so. Thanks for any input--Hanki had a 02 cv p71 and had the same problem check out your front wheel bearings

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I changed out the front wheel bearings on the MM, which didn't change anything. The first thing dealers seem to change is front wheel bearings for any type of noise/vibration issue. I have yet to see that actually be the problem. Especially for these guys who have had the vibe since "day one". It's not a wear part causing it if the car came from the factory doing the high speed shake. I'd bet anything mine did.

My shaking is minimal and pretty easy to ignore most of the time. What seems to make it worse is if the car has been sitting a long time -- the shaking seems to be worse the first few highway miles. This tells me it's a pretty sure bet the KDWs are the problem.

[lifespeed]

Darn, I need a new set of fronts on mine. I have had good luck with BFG KDWS in the past, that they were 255/50/17, and mounted on a '97 with recirculating ball steering, not rack and pinion.

I think I'll try a set of the KDWS at my local America's Tire. If they vibrate, I guess one of the other options would be those $200 Goodyear F1s. Anybody try these?

[Paul]

I too have the harmonic vibration at 75-80 mph. Thought it was one of my rims being slightly out of round. I have the stock BFG's on.

I have not tried the GY F1's, but would like to hear what others think of them.

[lifespeed]

I just got a new set of the BFG KDWS put on the front. They work like a dream, and I still have the factory toed-out alignment. I've got to fix that soon. I do like negative camber, though, and still plan to run -0.5 degrees. IMHO, it is the toe out that is mostly responsible for the wear anyway.

I have only had the new tires for one day, but that should be enough time to notice a wheel-related vibration.

Lifespeed

[ryanstickney1]

:bigcry:Sorry to start up this thread again, but best to keep warning others of the vibration in the TIRES. Just replaced the fronts and started to vibrate at all speeds. Next day got the road force balance. Found out one tire was already way off balance so the tire was re-vectored on the rim. Balance re-done, seemed fine until....70-75 mph. WTF!!! I am convinced that BFGs are the worst. Every set I have owned on other cars have vibrated or wobbled. You would think I'd have learned. No BFGs next time.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I had a set of BFG Traction TA's that ran out and shook no matter how many times I had them re-indexed using a road force machine. I sent a few back and ended up picking the "best" out of 6 tires, but they were never right. They would especially flumplumplumplump for the first few miles cold. The run out of the wheels was perfect and the tires were not round.

It's not just bfg's though. My dad got 2 sets of 4 Goodyear Eagle GA's 225/60/16's a few years apart, that did the same thing, and had to be swapped out one at a time until he got tires that did not run out. Flumplumplumplump

Not fun.

With 7,000 miles on my front KDWs, driving highway cruising only (no corner carving!), and with a near zero camber, zero toe alignment, I have already worn about 25% off the tires (even all the way across the tread). Awesome.

[sicilianmarquis]

have them check for rim runout, maybe one of your rims are bent

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

If you're talking to me about my previous experiences, we always checked runout and the rims were all perfect.

[lifespeed]

It sounds like a few of you have had bad experiences with BFG tires. I had a bad experience with out-of-round Goodyear gatorbacks many years ago. Haven't bought Goodyear tires since then.

I think it is safe to say that you can get bum tires from anybody. All you can do is hold them to their promise to sell good rubber and make them swap you out for another set until they get it right.

I got a 0 toe, -0.5 camber alignment a months ago. It really helped the road feel and harsh feedback into the steering wheel from bumps. Still no bad vibes or bad wear from the BFG KDWS tires.

[ryanstickney1]

Well I went back to the tire store for a re-balance. Both new fronts were way out, possibly threw a couple of weights. Drove away and as soon as I hit the highway, vibration started at 65. Not happy, I went back and the manager started all over with another road force balance. The right front was asking for a bunch of weight and eventually balanced to 0.0. Drove away and as of right now, the car rides like it was new. The manager has ordered a new right front for me and has done a good job trying to fix the problem. Its the TIRES and takes patients and knowledge from the guy working the balancer to fix it.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yep. W/ my BFG Traction TA's we had to rebalance several times on a road force machine, and send a few tires back for replacement, to get the car to not shake. I never though I'd have to d*ck around with tires so much just to get a car to drive down the highway and not shake.