Torqueing Bolts - Dry or Lubed ???

[MENINBLK]

I remember us having several discussions ranging from head bolts to lug nuts
and whether or not they should be lubricated before torqueing.

I ran across a website page by ARP (Automotive Racing Products)
that addresses different methods of Torqueing fasteners.
http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/fastener.html

The only way to know how a fastener should be torqued
is to follow the directions given in a shop manual.

[Petrograde]

Lubricated? :confused: I'm not sure if you'd get a true torque. I've never used it, but I have used primer or anti-seize compound when specified in the manual.

[metroplex]

Yep I read that, the only thing is the ARP guideline is basically for Grade 9 or higher bolts. If you follow those torque specs for a Grade 5 bolt, you can end up stretching or snapping off the bolt head due to over-torquing. Grade 5 Min tensile strenght <<<<< Grade 9/ARP min tensile strength.

I use anti-sieze as well. Engine oil doesn't usually stay long enough. It either dries up and cokes together in high temperature applications or just dries up. Anti-sieze seems to stay on.

The 23&P TM for the M16A2 rifle states to use moly disulfide grease on the threads of the upper receiver where you tighten the barrel nut. Anyone that has fired an AR-15 will know how hot that area gets and learns that the thermoset handguards are your friends!

[Shaft333]

It all depends on the bolt.
Some will be spec'd dry, others with motor oil, some with antiseize and even some with Loc-tite.

The manual is the way to go.

The Pontiac guys had an excellent chart for every bolt on the motors...

[Dennis Reinhart]

ARP has a torque sheet with there bolts and it depends on what you use such as oil or there pre lube packet as to what the final torque is

[Marauderjack]

What Dennis said!! :beer:

Also, remember to "chase" your threads with the proper size tap to make sure they are clean and free of any sealers or locking materials such a permatex or locktite!! ;)

This will give you as accurate a torque as you can get!! :banana2:

Marauderjack :rasta:

[fastblackmerc]

What Dennis said!! :beer:

Also, remember to "chase" your threads with the proper size tap to make sure they are clean and free of any sealers or locking materials such a permatex or locktite!! ;)

This will give you as accurate a torque as you can get!! :banana2:

Marauderjack :rasta:
What they ^^^^^^^^^^^^ said.

[metroplex]

I can just imagine some schmoe following the ARP sheet for regular Grade 5 bolts.

The ARP sheet lists minimum tensile strengths for the bolts FOR A REASON. You will overtorque regular Grade 5 bolts if you follow those specs on certain sized bolts.

The manual does not list the specs as being dry or lubed.

[prchrman]

Torque is actually set for obtaining the correct clamp pressure...bolt size and grade are given to withstand required tensile...most bolts are torqued dry but if the spec is set with some type of lube, sealer or locking agent then specific procedures must be followed to obtain correct torque, ie. clamp pressure...willie

[Dennis Reinhart]

I can just imagine some schmoe following the ARP sheet for regular Grade 5 bolts.

The ARP sheet lists minimum tensile strengths for the bolts FOR A REASON. You will overtorque regular Grade 5 bolts if you follow those specs on certain sized bolts.

The manual does not list the specs as being dry or lubed.
It is so easy to miss read the INTERNET, I may be misinterpreting your comment if so its no big deal, I do not think there are any SCHMOE here on this site, when I posted my comment about ARP, bolts that was exactly what I meant, I never meant any one should take a ARP torque value and apply it to a grade 8 bolt, with that being said even with a grade 8 bolt a little oil never hurts on the threads and as Jack said chasing threads can be a smart idea as well.

[MENINBLK]

If you read through the ARP article, they suggest torquing and removing the fastener several times
(at least 5 times) in order to mate the surfaces and achieve an accurate final torque.

I'm surprised none of you commented on that practice ???

I would thing do it this way would eliminate the need for retorqueing fasteners down the road...

[Shaft333]

I didn't read the article...
But that seems like a strange practice (torquing and loosening). I'm more familiar with stages of torque. Whereas on something like a cylinder head you would torque each bolt in the proper pattern a portion of the total torque... going back until each bolt is torqued appropriately.

[David Morton]

There's a manufacturer reccomendation for every bolt that requires torque. It includes oiled or not, use of LocTite, staged torque steps, torque + degrees and sequences as necessary. Follow those instructions and you can't go wrong guessing. Many times a bolt might take more torque, yes, but more isn't better because it might, say, crack the head or strip the threads!