Axle seals leaking, MM in shop now, opinions please

[wesman]

After a 3 day on track event I took off my right rear wheel and it was covered in oil inside the rim. I have taken it to a local shop and they say the axle seal is gone. They also say I should replace the bearings while its apart. Also they say the ebrake shoes are covered in oil so I should replace those too or else they could seize up ?!?!?! Anybody smell bulls**t? Car is up on the hoist now, looking at a sizeable bill.
Wesman.

[Tallboy]

If the brake lining material is soaked with gear oil, I'd replace 'em. I'm not sure if I believe the "locking up" story though. It's in the air, it's apart, might as well do it.

[RoyLPita]

See how much the full axle replacement kit is. You might be able to get ahold of Fast Ed at Fines Ford to find out. The kit includes both axle shafts, seals and bearings PLUS 3 bottles of fluid AND a tube of silicone for the cover. The only part that you need to buy seperately is the bottle of friction modifier.

The part # for the kit is 3W1Z-4A109-AA.

Keep us posted.

[jgc61sr2002]

After a 3 day on track event I took off my right rear wheel and it was covered in oil inside the rim. I have taken it to a local shop and they say the axle seal is gone. They also say I should replace the bearings while its apart. Also they say the ebrake shoes are covered in oil so I should replace those too or else they could seize up ?!?!?! Anybody smell bulls**t? Car is up on the hoist now, looking at a sizeable bill.
Wesman.


Is it still under warranty? If so have them button it up and return to the dealer.

[Mikeenh]

Article No. 05-5-5 : Rear axle shaft and or axle bearing premature wear - vehicles produced before 1/1/2003. Service kit 3W1Z-4A109-AA.

If this fits you Ford will replace no charge.

Had mine done at 35,000. They were in bad shape. Car was smoother & quieter after.

[Smokie]

There is a TSB on the Axle bearing problem....are you so far out of warranty?????????

[wesman]

Ok thanks guys. I will tell them just to put it back together and take it to the dealer. I don't know if they will go for it, given the amount of race parts on my car, but its worth a try.

[rayjay]

Repeat after me; I drove my grandmother to church last Sunday morning. Afterwards I was cleaning the wheels and found this mess, what is it?

[wesman]

Just checked my build date, its Feb 2003, guess I am paying for this one,:( .

[ckadiddle]

Huh? 36 months is Feb 03 to Feb 06. Unless you are over 36000 miles. Me, I have really crappy car karma. I bought the super duper ESP plan.

[BillyGman]

Huh? 36 months is Feb 03 to Feb 06. Unless you are over 36000 miles. According to post #5, that TSB only applies to Marauders that were built before 1/03

[Mad4Macs]

How do you check the build date? Both my axles were recently replaced (I had oil all over my rims) under ESP.

[wesman]

Its on the driver's door sticker. Mine is Feb 2003

[RoyLPita]

If you still have the leak, they will fix it, regardless of what parts are used.

[SergntMac]

Dude, what's up with this? Looking for warranty/TSB coverage on a race car?
Bull*****. You race the car, you fix it.

[wesman]

I am, Sarg.

[SergntMac]

I am, Sarg.Thank you,sir, my respect for you remains intact.

[wesman]

You are right, plus my dealer knows I am nuts. It hard to pretend you drive your grandma to church with a racing jack & slicks in the back seat. So far the bill is

seals for both sides, bearings for both sides, and ebrake shoes one side + synthetic fluid. But its not at a dealer, its at a local Firestone repair shop. First time dealing with them, just hope they are being straight with me.

[Joe Walsh]

You are right, plus my dealer knows I am nuts. It hard to pretend you drive your grandma to church with a racing jack & slicks in the back seat. So far the bill is

seals for both sides, bearings for both sides, and ebrake shoes one side + synthetic fluid. But its not at a dealer, its at a local Firestone repair shop. First time dealing with them, just hope they are being straight with me.

They are correct about the brake shoes.....if they got soaked with leaking gear oil, throw them in the trash.
I've heard of peopls 'hosing down' the shoes with BrakeClean fluid, but I wouldn't risk it...especially if you are going to race it!

[Krytin]

You know the bearings being replaced use the axle hub for the inner race. Make sure the axles are not damaged or you may experience a repeat failure.

[Mad4Macs]

Jun 2002 build date. No wonder I've had so many problems, I've got the effin' prototype!
:D

[Wires]

I also had a rear leak, after I had to pay for the kit installation. (mine was built in 2002, rear axle roared like a hellicopter) because the car was out of warranty. A few weeks later, I noticed oil on the wheel. I thought my calipers were leaking.

The Dealer that changed my axles, bearings, etc. put in a new seal, and I guess Ford got a nice bill for more oil, the seal, and labor to drain the rear and re-install.

[wesman]

Ok all is well, I got it back today. Bill was $700 CDN but it sure beats an axle failure and possible accident. They said they replaced the bearing on the passenger side only, seals both ends and ebrake shoes both ends. They said the drivers side bearings were fine. They said the passenger side axle is not perfect but they smoothed it out as best they could. Runs smooth and quiet.

[jgc61sr2002]

Ok thanks guys. I will tell them just to put it back together and take it to the dealer. I don't know if they will go for it, given the amount of race parts on my car, but its worth a try.


They probablly won't see them. :D You have nothing to loose but alot to gain. The dealer knows that there is a problem with the axels on Marauders built prior to 1/1/2003. Good Luck keep us posted.

[Marauderman]

Just found out in our meet today that L/M will replace mine under warranty due to TSB if within warranty--and it is--no questions asked---how I know-- we have a secret- inside members who are on the inside----so--for those still under warranty--and it don't matter if modded----go get a new axle....

[David Morton]

I hate threads like this. It's so hard fixing cars over the phone. Plus I'm too late to help you.

Screw the parking brake shoes! They aren't gonna lock up unless you put the parking brake on. DUH! If it was a warranty repair Ford wouldn't pay for new ones. They'll clean up fine with some soap/degreaser whatever cuts the oil because the shoe material is like a sponge and the soap will go right down inside and they'll be as good as new. Even if they were service brakes they'd be fine.

If somebody told me the axle bearings were bad, I'd want to see the axles first.

Check and see if the axle vent isn't plugged up with mud. If it is the seals will leak again. They leak when heat builds up air pressure inside the axle housing, and I've seen many leaking for this reason, especially if it's both sides leaking at the same time. Still the seals should be replaced when this happens, but most of the time I just replaced the seals and cleaned up the oil with Tide or Lemon Joy or whatever good soap was handy and water. Yup, soap and water. Does wonders.

Sorry to hear you're out $700. I post this for the next guy to avoid being scammed or over-serviced.

[Fourth Horseman]

Jun 2002 build date. No wonder I've had so many problems, I've got the effin' prototype!
:D

Same here, buddy. You name the early-build problems and we get them. :help: :lol:

[SergntMac]

I hate threads like this. It's so hard fixing cars over the phone. Plus I'm too late to help you.

Screw the parking brake shoes! They aren't gonna lock up unless you put the parking brake on. DUH! If it was a warranty repair Ford wouldn't pay for new ones. They'll clean up fine with some soap/degreaser whatever cuts the oil because the shoe material is like a sponge and the soap will go right down inside and they'll be as good as new. Even if they were service brakes they'd be fine.

If somebody told me the axle bearings were bad, I'd want to see the axles first.

Check and see if the axle vent isn't plugged up with mud. If it is the seals will leak again. They leak when heat builds up air pressure inside the axle housing, and I've seen many leaking for this reason, especially if it's both sides leaking at the same time. Still the seals should be replaced when this happens, but most of the time I just replaced the seals and cleaned up the oil with Tide or Lemon Joy or whatever good soap was handy and water. Yup, soap and water. Does wonders.

Sorry to hear you're out $700. I post this for the next guy to avoid being scammed or over-serviced.Even when the next guy in line is deeply involved in off road racing too?

[Tallboy]

I'm with the Sarge on this one. You don't want to take a chance on a road-racer. Besides, soap on your brake shoes? Friction material like a sponge? They'll soak up all that soap! Then what happens if they get wet? You're gonna have bubbles coming out of your rear wheels and you'll look like an idiot!

[RoyLPita]

Jun 2002 build date. No wonder I've had so many problems, I've got the effin' prototype!
:D

43 Prototype MMs were built between the end of 1/02 to 3/02. One of them belongs to a member here. HIs MM had the rear end o/h'd 3 times.

[metroplex]

43 Prototype MMs were built between the end of 1/02 to 3/02. One of them belongs to a member here. HIs MM had the rear end o/h'd 3 times.
A real life Ford beta tester? Can I have his autograph? :coolman: :help::D

[BLMMCO]

Save some and do it yourself...not a hard job

[Dennis Reinhart]

After a 3 day on track event I took off my right rear wheel and it was covered in oil inside the rim. I have taken it to a local shop and they say the axle seal is gone. They also say I should replace the bearings while its apart. Also they say the ebrake shoes are covered in oil so I should replace those too or else they could seize up ?!?!?! Anybody smell bulls**t? Car is up on the hoist now, looking at a sizeable bill.
Wesman.
I would say it is a bad axle there is a TSB for this and there is a complete kit for this fix that includes two new axles bearings and seals as well as fluid

[David Morton]

I'm sorry guys. If you don't think soap sounds good, by all means don't pay attention to my 20 years experience, buy new shoes. Forget that the heat will destroy those soap molecules and turn them to ash, it's what you think that counts!

Don't listen to a 47 year old fart that has hundreds of brake jobs out there without a single comeback. Who the hell is he? Soap and water? That's just too low-tech.

Self-taught mechanics, jeezis! Why do I even try?

[TooManyFords]

Just FYI David, I was with ya on your advice! ;)
Cheers!

John

[wesman]

I appreciate all the advice guys! Due to the timing of this failure I needed to get it fixed right away, and by a shop I don't really trust. As it was they kept it over night Friday and most of Saturday.

And speaking of comebacks, its back there this morning for a crappy Ebrake adjustment - it wouldn't hold the car in D on a flat surface!

David - thanks we need techs here!

[Tallboy]

I'm sorry guys. If you don't think soap sounds good, by all means don't pay attention to my 20 years experience, buy new shoes. Forget that the heat will destroy those soap molecules and turn them to ash, it's what you think that counts!

Don't listen to a 47 year old fart that has hundreds of brake jobs out there without a single comeback. Who the hell is he? Soap and water? That's just too low-tech.

Self-taught mechanics, jeezis! Why do I even try?I was joking about the soap bubbles. But, since you've mentioned it, I copied the following from the Raybestos Brake Website.
Read line 5...

OF BRAKE SYSTEM COMPONENTS
1. Before pulling the wheels, check each for endplay. This step will indicate to you any problems with seals and bearing cup wear problems.
2. Inspect all shoes for even wear. If all shoes are not worn evenly, there will be failed or misadjusted components that will need to be corrected before replacing the brake shoes.
3. Inspect lining surface for heat checking. If heat checking is present, this will be an indication of excessive heat. It can indicate that one wheel is doing more work than it is designed to do. It can also identify when the improper friction material is used in the lining effort. This can also indicate overloading, excessive heat or improper friction selection. All of these items should be checked.
4. Check the wear across each shoe. An uneven pattern or excessive grooves can indicate the drums need replacing. An uneven pattern can also indicate a bent spider or Bellmouthed drum.
5. Inspect lining surface for oil or grease. NEVER reuse a grease- or oil-soaked brake lining or shoe. Grease and oil on the friction material will cause the lining to glaze and not do its share of the braking


Apparently, you know more about brakes than Raybestos! Kudos!:beer:

[wesman]

Ok got my car back today at lunch. It was parked facing a busy road in Toronto (Yonge Street) and pedestrians were staring I noticed. It was parked so close to a vette I had to jump in through the window. Someone walking by made a too much NASCAR remark. E brake works great now.

[Dennis Reinhart]

We just started Steve's stage 1 and stage 2 upgrade today and guess what both axles were leaking I replaced them along wit the bearings and seals you can see the wear marks and pitting on the OEM axleshttp://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/newaxile.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/oemaxile.jpg

[David Morton]

Tallboy, did you ever figure Raybestos is selling brake parts and that maybe they would rather say replace than say clean?
They only said "never reuse an oil soaked lining" and to that statement, I agree. Clean it first. I've done it hundreds of times and never had a problem, performance complaint or comeback.

How many brake jobs have you done Tallboy? Are you a certified ASE Master Tech?

Good luck with your life boy. Your skill at pissing off people that can maybe help you someday is gonna call for all the luck you can get.

[Tallboy]

Tallboy, did you ever figure Raybestos is selling brake parts and that maybe they would rather say replace than say clean?
They only said "never reuse an oil soaked lining" and to that statement, I agree. Clean it first. I've done it hundreds of times and never had a problem, performance complaint or comeback.

How many brake jobs have you done Tallboy? Are you a certified ASE Master Tech?

Good luck with your life boy. Your skill at pissing off people that can maybe help you someday is gonna call for all the luck you can get.
The man asked for opinions, and I gave mine. I didn't get personal or contradict anyone's opinions. I've only done about a dozen brake jobs in my life.

BTW, you have a PM.

[Fourth Horseman]

:grouphug:

[David Morton]

Boy, you don't even read your own posts.

You have been trying to prove me wrong and I don't really care anyways. I've stated my experience and if you want to show off your googlewhacking skills to try to keep your ego up in front of these guys, have at it.

Rookies reading Hot Rod magazines. I've seen a few of you guys try working at real factory repair facilities and you're always too damn smart to be teachable. Reminds me of the guy dropping a Chevy 350 into a Monte Carlo on an short block job with the valve covers still off. He wanted to adjust the valves on the engine while it was running cause he read about it in a race car magazine. :lol:

You go get those books boy and bone up real good.

And I read your PM. Why would I waste my time driving to Venice to "find" you? I don't get that pissed, life's too short. I just noted that if you have to do this with me, chances are there's a lot of people you do this with so real friends are gonna be hard to find and keep.

For a guy like you.

[carfixer]

David, you are way off base. You turned someone's opinion into a personal attack, which is unneccessary. Tallboy simply stated his opinion and then backed it up with a Raybestos opinion, which I happen to agree with. I don't usually join pissing matches but think you are being a little harsh.

And BTW, your statement: "Your skill at pissing off people that can maybe help you someday is gonna call for all the luck you can get." is meaningless, I'm the only one who touches a wrench to his car. :)

[Tallboy]

Boy, you don't even read your own posts.

You have been trying to prove me wrong and I don't really care anyways. I've stated my experience and if you want to show off your googlewhacking skills to try to keep your ego up in front of these guys, have at it.

Rookies reading Hot Rod magazines. I've seen a few of you guys try working at real factory repair facilities and you're always too damn smart to be teachable. Reminds me of the guy dropping a Chevy 350 into a Monte Carlo on an short block job with the valve covers still off. He wanted to adjust the valves on the engine while it was running cause he read about it in a race car magazine. :lol:

You go get those books boy and bone up real good.

And I read your PM. Why would I waste my time driving to Venice to "find" you? I don't get that pissed, life's too short. I just noted that if you have to do this with me, chances are there's a lot of people you do this with so real friends are gonna be hard to find and keep.

For a guy like you.I accept your apology.

[SergntMac]

Rookies reading Hot Rod magazines. I've seen a few of you guys try working at real factory repair facilities and you're always too damn smart to be teachable. Reminds me of the guy dropping a Chevy 350 into a Monte Carlo on an short block job with the valve covers still off. He wanted to adjust the valves on the engine while it was running cause he read about it in a race car magazine.
I see your point here, David, as that which says "a little information can be a dangerous thing." I agree, and it's problematic for me from time to time too.

The upside of a forum like this, is that we can express our questions, and get help (sometimes professional help) in determining a resolution for a problem. The downside, is that we cannot control how our advice and guidance is understood, or, put into play by the reader. You're not replying to just one confused soul, but to evceryone in the world who may be checking in.

I'm not looking to hijack this thread, or, point fingers at others, but I need an example.

Every once in a while, someone here will mention that they drive full time on drag radials, which is a tire designed and intended for competition use only on a closed track, hopefully by a skilled driver too. Drag radials are produced almost legally bald and constructed with soft compounds that maximize traction on dry pavement. They are dangerous in the rain for the exactly these same reasons, and most manfacturers say so with much attention. Most.

However, because someone here says they drive on them everywhere with no problem, someone else reading this will try that too. My point is, is that if we are going to post our advice, this advice should be responsible, and we should be aware that the reader will try to do the same stuff we do, or, at times, do us one better. You know the syndrome, "if one is good, two is better", yes? Imagine the sad sack who installs drag radials on all four corners because in some racing environments, this is done. But, what happens when it drizzles on a sunny day while he's out running to the store...Imagine.

BTW, this isn't about drag radials, it's about the advice. I have serious reservations about "top speed" and street racing "kill stories" and I wince every once-in-awhile when I read what others post. We need to temper our advice with common sense, and not our common sense, but with anticipation of the reader's common sense.

You're a lifetime skilled wrench, David, I am a lifetime skilled cop. WE know what we are doing in our own specialities, and we know the parameters of our advice. But, what is the reader reading? Do you think you get my point?

If so, your advice on washing down oiled soaked brake shoes with soap is not responsible advice. It may be a trick that works for you, but it's not the kind of advice or guidance that you should dispense here. There are too many ways it can be misunderstood, and within the context of this thread, your advice should have been to spend the two bits on fresh shoes.

LOL...I can see some Hot Rod reading kid somewhere pulling his disc brake pads and soaking them in Joy because they squeek. Now, if you want to craft a post on exactly how to do this, how it works, and what to expect, I may feel differently. Educate us all? However, the manner in which you presented your advice in this thread, made me wince once again.

I'm with the Sarge on this one. You don't want to take a chance on a road-racer. Besides, soap on your brake shoes? Friction material like a sponge? They'll soak up all that soap! Then what happens if they get wet? You're gonna have bubbles coming out of your rear wheels and you'll look like an idiot!
Maybe it could have been said differently, but TallBoy is right. 100 percent right. Considering the cost of the brake material, and the way this particular Marauder is driven in competition events (which do race in the rain), buy new shoes.

You slapped him around once for his post, David, time to let him up. TallBoy was only stating his opinion of your suggestion, and I agree with him. Now you know why.

[MM03MOK]

After a 3 day on track event I took off my right rear wheel and it was covered in oil inside the rim. I have taken it to a local shop and they say the axle seal is gone. They also say I should replace the bearings while its apart. Also they say the ebrake shoes are covered in oil so I should replace those too or else they could seize up ?!?!?! Anybody smell bulls**t? Car is up on the hoist now, looking at a sizeable bill.
Wesman.Just a reminder of wesman's request for opinions, and that's what he has received.

New brake linings or soap. YRMV

o·pin·ion (http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-phttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifyhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifn) n.

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof:
A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert.
“The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion.” (Elizabeth Drew)

[Krytin]

I see your point here, David, as that which says "a little information can be a dangerous thing." I agree, and it's problematic for me from time to time too.

The upside of a forum like this, is that we can express our questions, and get help (sometimes professional help) in determining a resolution for a problem. The downside, is that we cannot control how our advice and guidance is understood, or, put into play by the reader. You're not replying to just one confused soul, but to evceryone in the world who may be checking in.

I'm not looking to hijack this thread, or, point fingers at others, but I need an example.

Every once in a while, someone here will mention that they drive full time on drag radials, which is a tire designed and intended for competition use only on a closed track, hopefully by a skilled driver too. Drag radials are produced almost legally bald and constructed with soft compounds that maximize traction on dry pavement. They are dangerous in the rain for the exactly these same reasons, and most manfacturers say so with much attention. Most.

However, because someone here says they drive on them everywhere with no problem, someone else reading this will try that too. My point is, is that if we are going to post our advice, this advice should be responsible, and we should be aware that the reader will try to do the same stuff we do, or, at times, do us one better. You know the syndrome, "if one is good, two is better", yes? Imagine the sad sack who installs drag radials on all four corners because in some racing environments, this is done. But, what happens when it drizzles on a sunny day while he's out running to the store...Imagine.

BTW, this isn't about drag radials, it's about the advice. I have serious reservations about "top speed" and street racing "kill stories" and I wince every once-in-awhile when I read what others post. We need to temper our advice with common sense, and not our common sense, but with anticipation of the reader's common sense.

You're a lifetime skilled wrench, David, I am a lifetime skilled cop. WE know what we are doing in our own specialities, and we know the parameters of our advice. But, what is the reader reading? Do you think you get my point?

If so, your advice on washing down oiled soaked brake shoes with soap is not responsible advice. It may be a trick that works for you, but it's not the kind of advice or guidance that you should dispense here. There are too many ways it can be misunderstood, and within the context of this thread, your advice should have been to spend the two bits on fresh shoes.

LOL...I can see some Hot Rod reading kid somewhere pulling his disc brake pads and soaking them in Joy because they squeek. Now, if you want to craft a post on exactly how to do this, how it works, and what to expect, I may feel differently. Educate us all? However, the manner in which you presented your advice in this thread, made me wince once again.

Maybe it could have been said differently, but TallBoy is right. 100 percent right. Considering the cost of the brake material, and the way this particular Marauder is driven in competition events (which do race in the rain), buy new shoes.

You slapped him around once for his post David, time to let him up. TallBoy was only stating his opinion of your suggestion, and I agree with him. Now you know why.
While I agree - IMHO - that the brake shoes should be replaced, they Are not used UNLESS you apply the PARKING BRAKE!

[MENINBLK]

As Krytin stated, and I will also, you guys are fighting over EMERGENCY BRAKE PADS.

They don't get HOT because they don't get used like Hydraulic brakes do.

If they are oil soaked, they won't hold your car, whether applied or not.

BTW, Oil AND Soap are both LUBRICANTS.
Gee, I wonder what both of you were thinking.

And YES, I have an ASE Master Technician Certificate.
I earned it the very first year that ASE Testing was conducted.

And if you emergency brake doesn't hold, you can adjust it for FREE,
and you can adjust it without leaving the driver's seat of the vehicle.
All you need to do is depress the Emergency Brake pedal and release
about 10 times. When you apply it on the 11th time it should hold.
Doing this will tighten the adjustment screw between the Emergency
brake shoes, bringing the shoes closer to the inside of the drum.

I have found that I need to do this at least once a month
for my Emergency Brake to work properly, and to continue working.

[TopCat]

I also agree. An oil-soaked brake shoe should be replaced. Oil softens the friction material, reducing effectiveness. Brake shoes are cheap-don't take the chance.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I also agree. An oil-soaked brake shoe should be replaced. Oil softens the friction material, reducing effectiveness. Brake shoes are cheap-don't take the chance.
There are no brake shoes on the rear of the Marauder, there are parking brake shoes and normally you can clean them up with brake clean, and they are expensive to replace. But I do agree with you if you have axile seals leaking on a drum brake system the shoes should be replaced.

[David Morton]

I did not apologize to you, boy, for your sophomoric threats in your PM. Nor do I expect you to see how your comments here have been insulting, but hey, I'm not suprised. Coming from someone that announces in public (in a round about way) that others are idiots like you did, it's par for the course.

Yes, I gave this advice as my personal experience, and especially because we were talking about parking brake shoes I felt that there wasn't any safety issue of any concern. My advice was about the parking brake shoes! I added in a later post that I've done this on service brakes to to relay my experience that this works well, but don't expect anybody to do this if they don't choose to.

Good advice Dennis, for us. But you run a car repair business and perhaps you should always replace any shoes in an oil-leak situation for purposes of indemnification. Raybestos can defend their product better in court than you can defend your clean-up job! Always bear in mind that people will wreck cars and look for somebody else to blame. The times I have cleaned-up oil messes in the past have never been times any lawyer could go into court and say, "he didn't clean up the oil good enough." Mostly it's been times oil was spilled on the shoes in the shop, never when I was replacing a leaking oil seal on a repair order. This is the main reason Raybestos says replace rather than clean.

Claude, stick with Tallboy. He needs somebody too. You will do well in this world. I like your attitude and wish you the best.

MENINBLK, thanks for the experience with the mechanism of the adjusters. I use my parking brakes regularly as is my habit. I developed it as part of the shutdown routine (turn key, take off seatbelt, apply parking brake) because it does two things. First and foremost it protects the transmission in case someone should bump me in a parking lot and second it keeps the cable freed-up, which needs periodic lubrication and stays lubed up better the more you use it. Now I find it does a third, keeps the things adjusted. Thanks!

I'm off to Kentucky for my grand-uncle (and Grand Mason) Jimmy's funeral. First road trip since I got Quicksilver and I'll let you guys know what my mileage is with the Diablosport tune when I get back.

[TopCat]

I hate threads like this. It's so hard fixing cars over the phone. Plus I'm too late to help you.

Screw the parking brake shoes! They aren't gonna lock up unless you put the parking brake on. DUH! If it was a warranty repair Ford wouldn't pay for new ones. They'll clean up fine with some soap/degreaser whatever cuts the oil because the shoe material is like a sponge and the soap will go right down inside and they'll be as good as new. Even if they were service brakes they'd be fine.

Looks to me like you're contradicting your own posts. You were way wrong to give this advice, or attack TallBoy. You owe this forum and TallBoy an apology.

[Dennis Reinhart]

David I respect you as I do any one on this site, I am not attacking you, any thing I have said in this thread was never directed to-wards you. I thought I was giving use full information especially when I posted the pictures of the bad axles. I am not going to get drawn into a pissing contest, and I am not saying you are are trying to do this, what I am saying is this thread has turned into one for what ever reason, how many times do you use the parking brake, not much. As I said if this was a rear brake car I always change the shoes because there used to stop the car. I always change wheel cylinders and calipers in pairs.

Parking brake shoes are not meant to STOP a car there meant to hold it in place on a incline, there not meant to be used when the wheels are rotating, if parking brake shoes have a slight amount of oil on them on a 2003 car with less than 20 K on the clock I will use brake clean unless you the owner specify change the shoes out, which the cost of the shoes alone will be about 100.00. plus the additional labor. So again as a shop owner since 1987 I always look out for my customers, especially on a safety issue.

[RF Overlord]

This has gone on long enough. While I respect the knowledge and experience you both have, you need to take this pissing contest elsewhere.