Mufflers quiet but deadly?

[Rkammer]

I'd love to modify the exhaust to sound really hot but for my wife and my business I must maintain a low sound level. But, I wouldn't mind changing mufflers if it will add a few horses. Is there a muffler change that will give me some added power while still being relatively quiet. I don't mind a slightly mellow throaty tone but it must have absoluely no drone at any speed. Does such an animal exist?

[torinodan]

FOMOCO duel mode mufflers will help ya.

[DEFYANT]

FOMOCO duel mode mufflers will help ya.
Watch for my review coming soon. I will have my Kooks system w/ DM mufflers installed on Monday.

[HwyCruiser]

Yup, Dual Modes are on my short list.

[BK_GrandMarquis]

Yup, Dual Modes are on my short list.

Is there such a thing as a "short" list in our love of cars?

[rumble]

I'd love to modify the exhaust to sound really hot but for my wife and my business I must maintain a low sound level. But, I wouldn't mind changing mufflers if it will add a few horses. Is there a muffler change that will give me some added power while still being relatively quiet. I don't mind a slightly mellow throaty tone but it must have absoluely no drone at any speed. Does such an animal exist?

Have you considered electric cutouts?

[Rkammer]

Have you considered electric cutouts?
No, but you bring up a real possibility. Are they placed all the way up near the exhaust manifolds? Or after the first cats? Any idea on horsepower gains on a basically stock NA MM? Thanks for the idea.

[BillyGman]

Here's my .02.....cutouts are usually placed before the mufflers, and that will be pretty loud when they're opened up. Which is fine if that's what you want. And I've heard good things about dual mufflers, but be advised that no muffler change alone is going to give you any noticeable power gain on the street, because the biggest restrictions on our factory exhaust systems aren't the mufflers, but are the stock exhaust manifolds and the four restrictive cats that are on there, with the muffler pipes being necked down at one area to as little as a mere 2" diameter being a big factor also. The point being that by choosing different mufflers alone, you wouldn't be reducing the power robbing exhaust restrictions all that much.

[Gagfish]

I put 2 Borlas in place of the stock mufflers. Honestly, it is barely louder than stock, but has a really nice note when you get on the gas. While cruising you do not notice them. And I got 320 rear wheel torque with them and a dyno-tune.

[BillyGman]

And I got 320 rear wheel torque with them and a dyno-tune.Sure, but it could be misleading if you list your dyno #'s and muffler choice w/out listing your other mods. I'm sure that the Borla mufflers alone didn't get you to 320 rear wheel torque. what else did you do to the exhaust, and what about other modifications? Changing muffs alone isn't going to get him to 320 RWTQ.

[SergntMac]

I put 2 Borlas in place of the stock mufflers. Honestly, it is barely louder than stock, but has a really nice note when you get on the gas. While cruising you do not notice them. And I got 320 rear wheel torque with them and a dyno-tune.Whoa dude, let me double check this...You installed two Borla mufflers and got a dyno tune, and that produced 320 pounds of torque at the rear wheel? Nothing else right, no supercharger, gears, TC, UPD, nothing, just the Borlas and a dyno tune...OMG, this is fantastic! Who did the tuning?

[SergntMac]

Oh wait a minute...You're the dude with hyper G-Force meter, right?

[Gagfish]

It's got 4.10 gears, PI converter, 2 Borlas and a K&N drop in and was tuned by Jerry.

[SergntMac]

It's got 4.10 gears, PI converter, 2 Borlas and a K&N drop in and was tuned by Jerry.I just don't want RKammer to get the wrong impression. I know Jerry is the best in tuning there is, but 320 is still a lot of RWTQ for the mods your list here. You're a lucky dude, hope you're enjoying your MM.

[Gagfish]

Yes, it is an amazing torque number. My theory is that since I didn't open up the exhaust too much (headers, ect) which would reduce backpressure, I was able to gain gobs of torque. The trade off is I don't make the horsepower that other guys do with the headers since I'm at only 278. But with a tank like the Marauder I think I'd rather torque than horsepower to get off the line with.

Jerry is amazing as I'm sure everyone knows. He did this program even before doing a baseline pull. Just the 1 pull to comfirm the tune was all it took.

[BillyGman]

Yes, it is an amazing torque number. My theory is that since I didn't open up the exhaust too much (headers, ect) which would reduce backpressure, I was able to gain gobs of torque. The trade off is I don't make the horsepower that other guys do with the headers since I'm at only 278. But with a tank like the Marauder I think I'd rather torque than horsepower to get off the line with.

Jerry is amazing as I'm sure everyone knows. He did this program even before doing a baseline pull. Just the 1 pull to comfirm the tune was all it took.And what about gas octane? Was this a race gas engine tune, or was that obtained with an ignition timning advance that can be safely run with 93 octane pump gas for daily street driving?

[rumble]

No, but you bring up a real possibility. Are they placed all the way up near the exhaust manifolds? Or after the first cats? Any idea on horsepower gains on a basically stock NA MM? Thanks for the idea.

My thought would be to place them in front of the cats (if
possible) and then plumb them back into the exhaust system
after the mufflers. Flip the switch and you're running basically
straight through exhaust, flip it back and then you're stock and
ready to be a businessman again. You can also simply plumb
them straight out the side too. TAF might be the go-to guy on this.

What ever you do to the mufflers though, without a "tune" you
won't notice much, if any, increase in performance.

I put Flowmasters 40's (loud) on mine and it sounds much better
but I didn't notice any improvement in performance. None.

[MarauderMarc]

I'd love to modify the exhaust to sound really hot but for my wife and my business I must maintain a low sound level. But, I wouldn't mind changing mufflers if it will add a few horses. Is there a muffler change that will give me some added power while still being relatively quiet. I don't mind a slightly mellow throaty tone but it must have absoluely no drone at any speed. Does such an animal exist?
There are many things tha you can do obviously. Heres what I did, I changed out my factory mufflers with Magnaflows and thats all (for now) I noticed a bit of a power gain and a lovely throat sound whenever I rev it. Definately sounds better than stock. The entire thing cost me 200.00 installed. Whatever route you take, though, I think you will be a happy camper. Anything is better than stock.

[Glenn]

I believe I may be only remaining member on the net with my particular exhaust set-up, but I am very pleased with it. It is the Ford Racing Cobra ceramic coated shortly headers and the Cobra hi-flow X-pipe and CATs from Magaflow (#93335 - requires a 4" extension) coupled to the OEM mufflers. It has a nice exhaust note (louder then stock) and no cabin drone. The combination with my other modest mods makes 287 RWHP and 306 RWTQ. It's just an alternative that works for me due to my business concerns and family.

Glenn :burnout:

[TooManyFords]

I've been reading this thread and see a lot of armchair dyno guessing...

I've -GOT- electric cutouts, a dual exhaust system and can run just straight cutouts. I gotta tell you, most of you are just a little bit right about what happens.

When I put the headers on and left the cutouts closed through the long exhaust to the rear I cut the 1/4 mile by .5 seconds. When I open the cutouts, I cut an -additional- .5 seconds. I lost a little bottom end, but again our engines don't stay below 3000 rpm for very long in a 1/4 romp, do they?

Any more questions, just ask away.

Cheers!

John

[Rkammer]

I've been reading this thread and see a lot of armchair dyno guessing...

I've -GOT- electric cutouts, a dual exhaust system and can run just straight cutouts. I gotta tell you, most of you are just a little bit right about what happens.

When I put the headers on and left the cutouts closed through the long exhaust to the rear I cut the 1/4 mile by .5 seconds. When I open the cutouts, I cut an -additional- .5 seconds. I lost a little bottom end, but again our engines don't stay below 3000 rpm for very long in a 1/4 romp, do they?

Any more questions, just ask away.

Cheers!JohnJohn, You mean you gained a full second in the 1/4 (which equates to about 100 HP) with just headers and open cutouts? Very impressive but difficult to accept without more info. Were the comparisons made with exactly the same conditions re: weather, launch technique, tires, fuel, other mods, etc. Can you expound? :confused:

[BillyGman]

John, You mean you gained a full second in the 1/4 (which equates to about 100 HP) with just headers and open cutouts? I'm sure that John will be glad to reply as soon as he can, but until he does, just let me add that I'm not so sure that a full second reduction in ET's neccessarily equates to a 100 HP gain. I know someone who added 106 HP to the wheels on his Marauder, and reduced his ET's by 1.6 seconds.(just a FYI). :)

[TooManyFords]

Looks like I'll have to recreate the image that goes with the post, but I documented this a couple years ago. The link located here (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showpost.php?p=77480&postcount=56) documented the upgrades and the performance improvements. I guess the header upgrade was .35 faster and not .5, but from the beginning of the mods till the cutouts I know I got more than a full second.

Anyway, I'll go grab my G-Timer and pull the data to make the image again in a few minutes.

And before any of you nay-sayers poo-poo the G-Timer, I documented that mine is dialed in to within .002 compared to a run through the traps at Cedar Falls Raceway. So, the graph was/is accurate and the improvements in performance are real.

As for HP increases, I did not dyno each run but only claim that the quicker times in the 1320 are correct. In fact, I don't remember what the graph said about HP increases so it is really irrelevent.

Cheers!

John

[Rkammer]

I'm sure that John will be glad to reply as soon as he can, but until he does, just let me add that I'm not so sure that a full second reduction in ET's neccessarily equates to a 100 HP gain. I know someone who added 106 HP to the wheels on his Marauder, and reduced his ET's by 1.6 seconds.(just a FYI). :)
Well, I guess we could argue that point for a long time and talk about flywheel vs rear wheel horsepower and stick shift vs auto trans. Also, there's the matter of repeatability of the testing criteria. However, all that being said, it's a pretty widely accepted axiom that for cars in the 3500 to 4000 lb range, 8-10 horsepower equates to about a one MPH difference in 1/4 mile trap speed. And, given good traction with cars running about 100 MPH through the traps, each MPH equates to about 1/10th second in E.T. So, a full second will equal 80 to 100 horsepower. That was the basis for my comment and it will work for street cars like ours almost every time.:)

[TooManyFords]

I recreated the chart for the old thread from the original data. The net reduction in 1/4 mile time with the headers and cutouts was .82 seconds. A .45 reduction from the Kooks and a .37 reduction on top of that by opening the cutouts. Runs were back to back at the same location and from the same starting point.

As always, YMMV.

Cheers!

John

[BillyGman]

, 8-10 horsepower equates to about a one MPH difference in 1/4 mile trap speed. And, given good traction with cars running about 100 MPH through the traps, each MPH equates to about 1/10th second in E.T. So, a full second will equal 80 to 100 horsepower. That was the basis for my comment and it will work for street cars like ours almost every time.:)Sorry Ray, but I never pay much attention to generalities like that, because they just don't always pan out since there are too many factors involved. That's like alot of guys on the SVT board are bent on comparing trap speeds, but you cannot claim that your car runs a better ET simply because your trap speed is better than someone else's who has a car that weighs the same as yours. It just doesn't always work that way.

It depends on many things such as where in the powerband your car is making most of it's torque increases, as well as rear end gearing, and even shift points. For instance, my car was running consistent 13.5's with a trap speed of 101 MPH before, and now it runs 12.0 ET's with a 114 MPH trap speed. But John's Marauder (aka "Jet") ran 117 MPH trap speeds also with 12.0 ET's at the same track on the same day. Both of us have the same rear tires, as well as the same car and same supercharger. However, we also have different rear end gear ratios, and different boost levels. The difference in boost pressures is 3 PSI. We ran against eachother side by side three times, and the two runs that our cars both hooked up good, my 60' and 330' times were considerably better than his, and his ET was only five hundreths of a second better than mine, despite the fact that his trap speed was 3 MPH faster.

[Rkammer]

Sorry Ray, but I never pay much attention to generalities like that, because they just don't always pan out since there are too many factors involved. That's like alot of guys on the SVT board are bent on comparing trap speeds, but you cannot claim that your car runs a better ET simply because your trap speed is better than someone else's who has a car that weighs the same as yours. It just doesn't always work that way.

It depends on many things such as where in the powerband your car is making most of it's torque increases, as well as rear end gearing, and even shift points. For instance, my car was running consistent 13.5's with a trap speed of 101 MPH before, and now it runs 12.0 ET's with a 114 MPH trap speed. But John's Marauder (aka "Jet") ran 117 MPH trap speeds also with 12.0 ET's at the same track on the same day. Both of us have the same rear tires, as well as the same car and same supercharger. However, we also have different rear end gear ratios, and different boost levels. The difference in boost pressures is 3 PSI. We ran against eachother side by side three times, and the two runs that our cars both hooked up good, my 60' and 330' times were considerably better than his, and his ET was only five hundreths of a second better than mine, despite the fact that his trap speed was 3 MPH faster.
Maybe that's were our experiences differ. I've spent the past 20 years racing muscle Buicks, first the big block cars and then the turbo cars. However, the big block cars as well as the turbo cars all have the same gearing and almost the same weight. About 3600-3800 lbs and always 3.42 gears from the factory. So, given similiar traction these cars will almost always abide by the 10 Horsepower = 1MPH = .1sec ET rule. It's not a hard rule but works 90% of the time. Perhaps now that I'm into 4200 lb cars with many different gear ratios both normally aspirated as well as blown the rules will have more variables. Thanks for your thoughts. :)

[younga1]

My only performance mod. to date is a pair of Borla XP Pro mufflers. These came off of my 2000 Crown Vic. Somewhat disappointed with the sound on the MM but then remembered the Megs have the resonator.

Now, after a few thousand miles, the sound is a welcome change to my CV. It sounds good under full throttle but mild when your foot isn't in it. Best of all, the deep resonation that they generated on the CV which gave my daughter a headache every time she got in the car is not there on my MM.

Not a significant power cange just from feel until about 3500 RPM. Then it seems to pull a little bit harder.

K&N FIPK due in the mail this week. Hope it is worth the $$

[BillyGman]

Maybe that's were our experiences differ. I've spent the past 20 years racing muscle Buicks, first the big block cars and then the turbo cars. However, the big block cars as well as the turbo cars all have the same gearing and almost the same weight. About 3600-3800 lbs and always 3.42 gears from the factory. So, given similiar traction these cars will almost always abide by the 10 Horsepower = 1MPH = .1sec ET rule. It's not a hard rule but works 90% of the time. Perhaps now that I'm into 4200 lb cars with many different gear ratios both normally aspirated as well as blown the rules will have more variables. Thanks for your thoughts. :)I think you have a good point there Ray. With two cars pitted against eachother, having the same weight, similar torque curves, and the the same ring & pinion ratios, things are more predictable due to less variables. Thanks for your input. Back to our regularly schedueled programming. :D

[Marauder]

I put 2 Borlas in place of the stock mufflers. Honestly, it is barely louder than stock, but has a really nice note when you get on the gas. While cruising you do not notice them. And I got 320 rear wheel torque with them and a dyno-tune.

So did I....idle sounds only a bit louder and when you get on the gas, you hear it a bit but it isn't annoying.

[MENINBLK]

Here's my .02.....cutouts are usually placed before the mufflers, and that will be pretty loud when they're opened up. Which is fine if that's what you want. And I've heard good things about dual mufflers, but be advised that no muffler change alone is going to give you any noticeable power gain on the street, because the biggest restrictions on our factory exhaust systems aren't the mufflers, but are the stock exhaust manifolds and the four restrictive cats that are on there, with the muffler pipes being necked down at one area to as little as a mere 2" diameter being a big factor also. The point being that by choosing different mufflers alone, you wouldn't be reducing the power robbing exhaust restrictions all that much.

Billy,

I'll agree with you on the OEM Exhaust Manifolds,
but the cats aren't as restrictive as you claim.

Taking out the OEM cats and replacing them with
High Flow cats will only net you about 2 - 4 HP.
Of course you can't use the OEM Cats with an aftermarket exhaust
so no one is going to be able to actually try them out and see
how much restriction actually exists.

Cats have come a long way since 1973.
They are mainly there to insure a complete burn of fuel,
and to retain heat in the exhaust within the confines
of the head, exh manifold and cat.
After the cat, the pipe size is the largest restriction.

[2003 MIB]

My thought would be to place them in front of the cats (if
possible) and then plumb them back into the exhaust system
after the mufflers. Flip the switch and you're running basically
straight through exhaust, flip it back and then you're stock and
ready to be a businessman again. You can also simply plumb
them straight out the side too. TAF might be the go-to guy on this.

What ever you do to the mufflers though, without a "tune" you
won't notice much, if any, increase in performance.

I put Flowmasters 40's (loud) on mine and it sounds much better
but I didn't notice any improvement in performance. None.
Aren't exhaust cutouts are illegal in Texas. I've seen a neat set up like you describe in an ad inthe back of Hot Rod. I like the idea but state inspection might be a challenge.

[2003 MIB]

Aren't exhaust cutouts are illegal in Texas? I've seen a neat set up like you describe in an ad inthe back of Hot Rod. I like the idea but state inspection might be a challenge.
I stand corrected!!!!! Cool!
<DIR>

<DIR>Straight from the inspection instructions:



If the vehicle is equipped with lake pipes or similar devices, such pipes or devices must be securely plated and bolted or capped.




</DIR></DIR>

[BillyGman]

Billy,

I'll agree with you on the OEM Exhaust Manifolds,
but the cats aren't as restrictive as you claim.

Taking out the OEM cats and replacing them with
High Flow cats will only net you about 2 - 4 HP.
. Well, I must admit that I was surprised to see how restrictive looking even the aftermarket "hi'flow" cats looked before I put them in. They have what looks like a screen on both ends that have very tiny holes. Holes that are so small that they look as though they can very easily be clogged up with carbon deposties over time. But I can't help but to think that having two cats, instead of the the four factory ones, is still an improvement.

I also believe that removing the cats all together w/out replacing them would offer some performance gains, because of how restrictive they look, and because the late model Mustangs I've heard driven by guys who i work with which are run without any cats are quite a bit louder even though they're running mufflers.

But I dunno much about running computer controlled late model cars w/out cats. I know that there are some type of electrical parts available that replace the secondary oxygen sensors, that can be installed to prevent the computer from throwing a code while not having any cats, howver, I guess a person has to consider the hassle and extra expense that would be involved if they decided to keep their car for a number of years, and then had to re-install the cats later on in order to pass emissions tests.

[Architect]

There are many things tha you can do obviously. Heres what I did, I changed out my factory mufflers with Magnaflows and thats all (for now) I noticed a bit of a power gain and a lovely throat sound whenever I rev it. Definately sounds better than stock. The entire thing cost me 200.00 installed. Whatever route you take, though, I think you will be a happy camper. Anything is better than stock.I know this is a tough question...but...how much louder are they over the stock set-up?
I want just a little more sound when driving under "normal conditions", but no drumming or droning when on the highway...http://www.mercurymarauder.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif
Thanks for taking time to answer back....http://www.mercurymarauder.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
architect