BFGoodrich needs to HEAR US !!!

[MENINBLK]

I am thinking this...

FORD stopped buying BFGoodrich products because they own Firestone
and FORD has had many issues with Firestone products in the past.

Many FORDs are now equipped with Pirelli tires.

I think this may have upset BFGoodrich slightly, and they decided
that our tires aren't as important to them as they are to us.

So I've started a thread inquiring about the backorder/discontinuance of our tires.
BF Goodrich Forum (http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/bfgapp/servlet/Controller/site.forums.LoadMessages?discu ssion_id=.1dcedb91&topic_id=.1dce8370)

Please post on this thread and be vocal and firm, but please be tactful.
We want to express our needs, not our opinions...

Thanks,

[Rider90]

Looks like Darrel and I got ya covered...

Keep them coming folks!

[Tallboy]

When did Michelin/BFG buy Bridgestone/Firestone?:confused:

[ADE 1000]

I am thinking this...

FORD stopped buying BFGoodrich products because they own Firestone
and FORD has had many issues with Firestone products in the past.



Your theory is a bit flawed. BF Goodrich does not own Firestone. Bridgestone owns Firestone. BF Goodrich is owned by Michelin.

In any case, I think it is total BS that they discontinuing our stock size tire. I guess we will all have to switch to the KDW-2s.

[RR|Suki]

Your theory is a bit flawed. BF Goodrich does not own Firestone. Bridgestone owns Firestone. BF Goodrich is owned by Michelin.

In any case, I think it is total BS that they discontinuing our stock size tire. I guess we will all have to switch to the KDW-2s.
if you get 255/55 there are some good options... there are some that ar even cheaper, just my .02

[MENINBLK]

Your theory is a bit flawed. BF Goodrich does not own Firestone. Bridgestone owns Firestone. BF Goodrich is owned by Michelin.

In any case, I think it is total BS that they discontinuing our stock size tire. I guess we will all have to switch to the KDW-2s.

Okay, I know now that I have it a little backwards.
But looking over the tires of choice in my dealership,
Pirelli seems to be on about 80% of the Ford Vehicles.
The balance are wearing Contis or Eagles...

This makes it look like BFGoodrich lost a lot of FORD business.
And since this tire was only taken advantage of by our Marauder,
I guess BF Goodrich doesn't see the demand that 250,000 vehicles creates
when only 11,000 vehicles have a need for the tire.

And if there are other options, please let us know what they are...
I have been searching and I have found NONE...
KDW2 is NOT an option for me because it is not a good rain tire
and I won't drive my Marauder with my family in it, unless the tires
are as good as OEM or better.

If we can't get any answers through BF Goodrich,
my next letter goes to BILL FORD.

[Marc]

Isn't this more of a ford issue than BFG? If Ford moved its business away from BFG and BFG is the only one that made the tire, then shouldn't the new tire company Ford uses (Pirelli, Continental) start making the tire?

[ALF]

Goodyear makes tires that will fit your mauarders

[Smokie]

I have been searching and I have found NONE...
KDW2 is NOT an option for me because it is not a good rain tire
and I won't drive my Marauder with my family in it, unless the tires
are as good as OEM or better.Is this an opinion, or do you have data to support the above statement? When I researched the KDWS vs. the KDW-2, the latter was rated higher on wet roads.

If you have data to the contrary please share. Thanks.

[Bluerauder]

Please post on this thread and be vocal and firm, but please be tactful.
We want to express our needs, not our opinions...

Thanks,
Done. Posted to the thread .... also put the same comments/questions to the "Contact Us" page on the site.

[SergntMac]

Goodyear makes tires that will fit your mauardersSo does Pirelli, I'm on my third set.

I have a few thoughts to share, hold on as I apply some logic here.

IMHO...

One...The BFG/OEM tires we got on our MMs were not production tires for BFG before the MM came to be. There's no wear history, no "owner's comments" before our comments, no use index on other vehicles.

BFG produced a special tire, and in three sizes, just for the MM. Front size, rear size, and later, a "donut" spare. However, as we drove these "first edition" tires into the ground early, and complained to FMC about wear issues, we got replacement tires that BFG eventually paid for, and FMC didn't pay one cent. Who dumped who?

Behind this, FMC's premature production cut-off date for the MM robbed BFG of their anticipated production quota that may have kept our size/compound alive longer, by balancing BFGs investment vs. return index. But, that didn't happen, did it?

BFG was once promised a 15K unit production over 5 years. But, FMC cut it short, and produced only 11K units in three years, and just after most of us complained of short tire life. Yeah, some of us cried about cuts in MM production, but others enjoyed it. Nonetheless, BFG may have been cut off from their "break even" point, and decided that our size and compound, was a loser tire, given the short production and replacement "zone" BFG was left with.

Independently, BFG could do better for us, and they have, with the KDW2 tire. More size options which many of us have taken advantage of, and better compounds which drive better and live longer. The KDW2 is a better tire, and a tire designed by BFG based on how we drive our MMs, not FMC's speculation/expectation. The tire also works very well for other automobiles, which spreads BFGs production risk out and beyond the MM. No wonder it's 65-80 bucks cheaper than other brands in likewise size, and available.

Two...FMCs move to Pirelli as the OEM tire selection guarantees owner satisfaction in the first years of use. They grip like a bit*h and don't let go. But they also wear out beyond contemporary expectations. There will be some griping, moaning and bit*hing from '05 owners in a few months, for sure. But, until then, tire peace. Pirelli makes a lot of tires that fit FMC products right out of the box, and they have made them for many years, and without any necessary compound changes. This speaks of another concern.

Remember the days not so long ago, when tire warranty was separate from vehicle warranty? Well, IMHO, those days are back. Was a time when you bought a car, and got two warranty booklets in your owner's manual. One for the base car, and a second for the tires, maybe a third for the audio choice/option. This was how it was a while back, and it's this way again.

When you have a tire related problem, maybe a bad alignment, poor balance, or, possible out of round issue, you will hear "go to Pirelli, we are not responsible". Could be the "new" game, yes? Worked a few years ago, but the lawsuits over Firestone tires on Explorers (ETAL) changed all that.

Third...Tires are petroleum products, are they not? "Poor oil, bad oil, no oil" will be reflected in tires, yes? Considering the price of an OPEC barrell today...Well, don't let me overload y'all. Just think about one and two, K?

Y'all want to protest the shortage of OEM tires, but ignore how y'all participated in that...Want your cake and eat it too, eh?

[johnfain]

The below from Goodyears website.


Goodyear makes tires that will fit your mauarders
The search results are based on the following criteria:
2003 MERCURY Marauder Standard Rear with a manufacturer's standard tire size of 245/55ZR18



We are sorry, but our Tire Selector could not find any tires with this size to fit your vehicle.


*MSRP - Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Because tire pricing and availability may vary, please contact or visit your local retailer for their specific offer.

RATING SCALE: Using the rating scale to distinguish between tires across different tire categories would be misleading. For example, utilizing the scale to compare a passenger tire to a performance tire would not generate an accurate comparison.

WARNING: Before you replace your tires, always consult the vehicle owner's manual and follow the vehicle manufacturer's replacement tire recommendations. If the vehicle owner's manual prohibits changing tire sizes, you must not change the size of the tire. Vehicle handling may be significantly affected by a change in tire size or type. When selecting tires that are different from the original equipment size, see a professional installer in order to make certain that proper clearance, load carrying capacity and inflation pressure is selected. Never exceed the maximum load capacity and inflation pressure listed on the sidewall of the tire. Always drive safely and obey all traffic laws. Avoid sudden, sharp turns or lane changes. Failure to follow this warning may result in loss of control of the vehicle, leading to an accident and serious injury or death.
Privacy Policy | Copyright | Contact Us

[MENINBLK]

Is this an opinion, or do you have data to support the above statement? When I researched the KDWS vs. the KDW-2, the latter was rated higher on wet roads.

If you have data to the contrary please share. Thanks.

If you 'SEARCH' MM.net you'll have all of the info you are 'SEARCHING' for...

[Directedby]

Did I really just waste this much time reading this thread?


:bs:

[MENINBLK]

So does Pirelli, I'm on my third set.

I have a few thoughts to share, hold on as I apply some logic here.

IMHO...

One...The BFG/OEM tires we got on our MMs were not production tires for BFG before the MM came to be. There's no wear history, no "owner's comments" before our comments, no use index on other vehicles.

BFG produced a special tire, and in three sizes, just for the MM. Front size, rear size, and later, a "donut" spare. However, as we drove these "first edition" tires into the ground early, and complained to FMC about wear issues, we got replacement tires that BFG eventually paid for, and FMC didn't pay one cent. Who dumped who?

Behind this, FMC's premature production cut-off date for the MM robbed BFG of their anticipated production quota that may have kept our size/compound alive longer, by balancing BFGs investment vs. return index. But, that didn't happen, did it?

BFG was once promised a 15K unit production over 5 years. But, FMC cut it short, and produced only 11K units in three years, and just after most of us complained of short tire life. Yeah, some of us cried about cuts in MM production, but others enjoyed it. Nonetheless, BFG may have been cut off from their "break even" point, and decided that our size and compound, was a loser tire, given the short production and replacement "zone" BFG was left with.

Independently, BFG could do better for us, and they have, with the KDW2 tire. More size options which many of us have taken advantage of, and better compounds which drive better and live longer. The KDW2 is a better tire, and a tire designed by BFG based on how we drive our MMs, not FMC's speculation/expectation. The tire also works very well for other automobiles, which spreads BFGs production risk out and beyond the MM. No wonder it's 65-80 bucks cheaper than other brands in likewise size, and available.

Two...FMCs move to Pirelli as the OEM tire selection guarantees owner satisfaction in the first years of use. They grip like a bit*h and don't let go. But they also wear out beyond contemporary expectations. There will be some griping, moaning and bit*hing from '05 owners in a few months, for sure. But, until then, tire peace. Pirelli makes a lot of tires that fit FMC products right out of the box, and they have made them for many years, and without any necessary compound changes. This speaks of another concern.

Remember the days not so long ago, when tire warranty was separate from vehicle warranty? Well, IMHO, those days are back. Was a time when you bought a car, and got two warranty booklets in your owner's manual. One for the base car, and a second for the tires, maybe a third for the audio choice/option. This was how it was a while back, and it's this way again.

When you have a tire related problem, maybe a bad alignment, poor balance, or, possible out of round issue, you will hear "go to Pirelli, we are not responsible". Could be the "new" game, yes? Worked a few years ago, but the lawsuits over Firestone tires on Explorers (ETAL) changed all that.

Third...Tires are petroleum products, are they not? "Poor oil, bad oil, no oil" will be reflected in tires, yes? Considering the price of an OPEC barrell today...Well, don't let me overload y'all. Just think about one and two, K?

Y'all want to protest the shortage of OEM tires, but ignore how y'all participated in that...Want your cake and eat it too, eh?

Do you want to help us or just rant ???

And why do you all CONTINUALLY talk about the Marauder
as if Ford was going to make ONE MILLION of them ???
The Marauder was a LIMITED PRODUCTION VEHICLE.
Get it in your HEAD already !!!
Elaina Ford even stated this in the very DVD that everyone wants a copy of.

Geese... Ya think someone may have paid a *little* attention ???

[de minimus]

if you get 255/55 there are some good options... there are some that ar even cheaper, just my .02
I sure this has been asked and I could search past threads, but, well I'm lazy....255/55's will fit the stock wheels?

[Rider90]

I sure this has been asked and I could search past threads, but, well I'm lazy....255/55's will fit the stock wheels?

Yep, check my gallery for pics of my install.

[Warpath]

Ford is driven by performance and cost - mostly the latter. If one tire manufacturer can produce a tire for less, Ford will switch. That is why Pirelli and Conti are used on most Fords now. If BFG can make a better tire and/or a less expensive tire, Ford will switch to it (assuming the business case works out). There is no brand loyalty anymore. The marketplace is way too competitive to be loyal.

[jabird56]

I don't know what the issue with some regarding the KDW2s in rain. I haven't had any problems with them here in Nebraska in rain up to including down pours. And oh by the way, I LOVE these KDW2s compared against the OEM KDWSs. The 2s handle better, ride better, and stick to the road like duct tape! And with the 55's in the back, the tire set is more agressive looking then the OEMs.


Okay, I know now that I have it a little backwards.
But looking over the tires of choice in my dealership,
Pirelli seems to be on about 80% of the Ford Vehicles.
The balance are wearing Contis or Eagles...

This makes it look like BFGoodrich lost a lot of FORD business.
And since this tire was only taken advantage of by our Marauder,
I guess BF Goodrich doesn't see the demand that 250,000 vehicles creates
when only 11,000 vehicles have a need for the tire.

And if there are other options, please let us know what they are...
I have been searching and I have found NONE...
KDW2 is NOT an option for me because it is not a good rain tire
and I won't drive my Marauder with my family in it, unless the tires
are as good as OEM or better.

If we can't get any answers through BF Goodrich,
my next letter goes to BILL FORD.

[johnfain]

Yep, check my gallery for pics of my install.

Do you need to reprogram the abs, etc...?

[de minimus]

Yep, check my gallery for pics of my install.
Thanks! you have way too many nice cars. Love the Model A.

[Directedby]

Do you want to help us or just rant ???

And why do you all CONTINUALLY talk about the Marauder
as if Ford was going to make ONE MILLION of them ???
The Marauder was a LIMITED PRODUCTION VEHICLE.
Get it in your HEAD already !!!
Elaina Ford even stated this in the very DVD that everyone wants a copy of.

Geese... Ya think someone may have paid a *little* attention ???


Uh..............




:stupid:

[Rider90]

Do you need to reprogram the abs, etc...?

Negative. No issues with Traction Control or ABS whatsoever.

[Rider90]

Thanks! you have way too many nice cars. Love the Model A.

The A is a 1935. A restoration from the 80's. It isn't ours, I was towing it for my dad's long-time friend. She is very old, her late husband restored it, and we come out every season to get it running and make sure everything is adjusted and in proper working order as it sees a few parades. Beautiful car.

Check out these stickers:
http://midwestpanthers.net/7.jpg
http://midwestpanthers.net/8.jpg

Sorry for the thread hi-jacking, carry on! Any further comments just send me a PM. We also have a 1919 Model T Depot Hack 1-Ton that is ours, in case you are into the oldies.

[jabird56]

Going from a 245/55/18 to a 255/55/18 widens your rear tire by .39 of an inch and enlarges your tire diameter by .43 of an inch or a radius of .21 of and inch.


I sure this has been asked and I could search past threads, but, well I'm lazy....255/55's will fit the stock wheels?

[maraudernkc]

Mac, very well put!


So does Pirelli, I'm on my third set.

I have a few thoughts to share, hold on as I apply some logic here.

IMHO...

One...The BFG/OEM tires we got on our MMs were not production tires for BFG before the MM came to be. There's no wear history, no "owner's comments" before our comments, no use index on other vehicles.

BFG produced a special tire, and in three sizes, just for the MM. Front size, rear size, and later, a "donut" spare. However, as we drove these "first edition" tires into the ground early, and complained to FMC about wear issues, we got replacement tires that BFG eventually paid for, and FMC didn't pay one cent. Who dumped who?

Behind this, FMC's premature production cut-off date for the MM robbed BFG of their anticipated production quota that may have kept our size/compound alive longer, by balancing BFGs investment vs. return index. But, that didn't happen, did it?

BFG was once promised a 15K unit production over 5 years. But, FMC cut it short, and produced only 11K units in three years, and just after most of us complained of short tire life. Yeah, some of us cried about cuts in MM production, but others enjoyed it. Nonetheless, BFG may have been cut off from their "break even" point, and decided that our size and compound, was a loser tire, given the short production and replacement "zone" BFG was left with.

Independently, BFG could do better for us, and they have, with the KDW2 tire. More size options which many of us have taken advantage of, and better compounds which drive better and live longer. The KDW2 is a better tire, and a tire designed by BFG based on how we drive our MMs, not FMC's speculation/expectation. The tire also works very well for other automobiles, which spreads BFGs production risk out and beyond the MM. No wonder it's 65-80 bucks cheaper than other brands in likewise size, and available.

Two...FMCs move to Pirelli as the OEM tire selection guarantees owner satisfaction in the first years of use. They grip like a bit*h and don't let go. But they also wear out beyond contemporary expectations. There will be some griping, moaning and bit*hing from '05 owners in a few months, for sure. But, until then, tire peace. Pirelli makes a lot of tires that fit FMC products right out of the box, and they have made them for many years, and without any necessary compound changes. This speaks of another concern.

Remember the days not so long ago, when tire warranty was separate from vehicle warranty? Well, IMHO, those days are back. Was a time when you bought a car, and got two warranty booklets in your owner's manual. One for the base car, and a second for the tires, maybe a third for the audio choice/option. This was how it was a while back, and it's this way again.

When you have a tire related problem, maybe a bad alignment, poor balance, or, possible out of round issue, you will hear "go to Pirelli, we are not responsible". Could be the "new" game, yes? Worked a few years ago, but the lawsuits over Firestone tires on Explorers (ETAL) changed all that.

Third...Tires are petroleum products, are they not? "Poor oil, bad oil, no oil" will be reflected in tires, yes? Considering the price of an OPEC barrell today...Well, don't let me overload y'all. Just think about one and two, K?

Y'all want to protest the shortage of OEM tires, but ignore how y'all participated in that...Want your cake and eat it too, eh?

[RR|Suki]

Mac, very well put!+1 there are better tires, better sizes, and sometimes the prices are better and if not close:D it's all good to me though, my stock rims look like they made the trip from the dealer to the shop before they were taken off... Hellloooooo winter wheels

[ADE 1000]

Do you want to help us or just rant ???

And why do you all CONTINUALLY talk about the Marauder
as if Ford was going to make ONE MILLION of them ???
The Marauder was a LIMITED PRODUCTION VEHICLE.
Get it in your HEAD already !!!
Elaina Ford even stated this in the very DVD that everyone wants a copy of.

Geese... Ya think someone may have paid a *little* attention ???

Part "one" of Macs post was spot on.

The term "limited production" means nothing unless a defined quantity follows it. For example, Ford has announced that they will only make 2500 GTs over three years. That is limited production. From what I recall, Ford estimated volumes for the Marauder would be 10,000 cars per year. We all know the final tally did not get close to this.

It is certain that BFG and any other supplier for Marauder specfic parts was screwed on tooling amortization and other costs by the much shorter than expected production life of the Marauder.

[1stMerc]

So does Pirelli, I'm on my third set.

I have a few thoughts to share, hold on as I apply some logic here.

IMHO...

One...The BFG/OEM tires we got on our MMs were not production tires for BFG before the MM came to be. There's no wear history, no "owner's comments" before our comments, no use index on other vehicles.

BFG produced a special tire, and in three sizes, just for the MM. Front size, rear size, and later, a "donut" spare. However, as we drove these "first edition" tires into the ground early, and complained to FMC about wear issues, we got replacement tires that BFG eventually paid for, and FMC didn't pay one cent. Who dumped who?

Behind this, FMC's premature production cut-off date for the MM robbed BFG of their anticipated production quota that may have kept our size/compound alive longer, by balancing BFGs investment vs. return index. But, that didn't happen, did it?

BFG was once promised a 15K unit production over 5 years. But, FMC cut it short, and produced only 11K units in three years, and just after most of us complained of short tire life. Yeah, some of us cried about cuts in MM production, but others enjoyed it. Nonetheless, BFG may have been cut off from their "break even" point, and decided that our size and compound, was a loser tire, given the short production and replacement "zone" BFG was left with.

Independently, BFG could do better for us, and they have, with the KDW2 tire. More size options which many of us have taken advantage of, and better compounds which drive better and live longer. The KDW2 is a better tire, and a tire designed by BFG based on how we drive our MMs, not FMC's speculation/expectation. The tire also works very well for other automobiles, which spreads BFGs production risk out and beyond the MM. No wonder it's 65-80 bucks cheaper than other brands in likewise size, and available.

Two...FMCs move to Pirelli as the OEM tire selection guarantees owner satisfaction in the first years of use. They grip like a bit*h and don't let go. But they also wear out beyond contemporary expectations. There will be some griping, moaning and bit*hing from '05 owners in a few months, for sure. But, until then, tire peace. Pirelli makes a lot of tires that fit FMC products right out of the box, and they have made them for many years, and without any necessary compound changes. This speaks of another concern.

Remember the days not so long ago, when tire warranty was separate from vehicle warranty? Well, IMHO, those days are back. Was a time when you bought a car, and got two warranty booklets in your owner's manual. One for the base car, and a second for the tires, maybe a third for the audio choice/option. This was how it was a while back, and it's this way again.

When you have a tire related problem, maybe a bad alignment, poor balance, or, possible out of round issue, you will hear "go to Pirelli, we are not responsible". Could be the "new" game, yes? Worked a few years ago, but the lawsuits over Firestone tires on Explorers (ETAL) changed all that.

Third...Tires are petroleum products, are they not? "Poor oil, bad oil, no oil" will be reflected in tires, yes? Considering the price of an OPEC barrell today...Well, don't let me overload y'all. Just think about one and two, K?

Y'all want to protest the shortage of OEM tires, but ignore how y'all participated in that...Want your cake and eat it too, eh?

Totally logical.
Mr. Mac you are a wise man.

[Bluerauder]

Third...Tires are petroleum products, are they not? "Poor oil, bad oil, no oil" will be reflected in tires, yes? Considering the price of an OPEC barrell today...Well, don't let me overload y'all. Just think about one and two, K?
And all this time I thought tires were made from rubber that came from rubber trees !!! :rolleyes:


Y'all want to protest the shortage of OEM tires, but ignore how y'all participated in that...Want your cake and eat it too, eh?

Yes !!! :cake: :food: :rofl:

[rookie1]

It is certain that BFG and any other supplier for Marauder specfic parts was screwed on tooling amortization and other costs by the much shorter than expected production life of the Marauder.


Typically, Big3 production contracts/Purchase Orders have clauses in them to cover tooling costs if vehicle production is halted b4 a certain minimum is reached.

[Smokie]

If you 'SEARCH' MM.net you'll have all of the info you are 'SEARCHING' for...This is what I found:
KDW2 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17775&highlight=kdw2)

And again from the exact same person:
OEMS (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15858&highlight=kdw2)

Are you basing your opinion on this or did I miss something, I am being sincere, I also happen to care about my family when they ride in my car. So if you have something specific, please share facts. Thank you.

[THE_INTERCEPTOR]

I don't know guys, I kinda like it. Me personally, I would never drive it, but it is a nice looking car. Plus, stock vs stock, it would probably take a Marauder, and would definitely take my Vic. :(

But for what you would pay for the Hemi model, why not just pick up a brand new LX Sport or a slightly used Marauder.....and blow it. :) :D

[Rider90]

This is what I found:
KDW2 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17775&highlight=kdw2)

And again from the exact same person:
OEMS (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15858&highlight=kdw2)

Are you basing your opinion on this or did I miss something, I am being sincere, I also happen to care about my family when they ride in my car. So if you have something specific, please share facts. Thank you.

lol, I guess I just need aquatreads and I'll shut-up :D

Thinking of each scenerio, when the OEMs were slippin' & sliding and when the KDW2s showed what they could do, I think the OEMS were still worse than the KDW2. The thread about KDW2 = Horrible in Rain was based on a entrance to the highway that when seen in daytime, is nearly black with oil and crud all over it. The OEMs handled this turn better than the KDW2s in this situation. I discussed a similar peice with SergntMac, in person, and he told me about the rudder effect and now I had a full understanding.

Although at one time I was disapointed in the stock BFG tires in the rain along with the newer tread BFGs, I now appreciate how the newer tread BFGs handle in the rain above the stock BFG tires. My front tires are wearing very well at 20k so I will not be replacing them soon, although part of me wants to so I could feel this grip on all fours.

[Smokie]

lol, I guess I just need aquatreads and I'll shut-up :D

Thinking of each scenerio, when the OEMs were slippin' & sliding and when the KDW2s showed what they could do, I think the OEMS were still worse than the KDW2. The thread about KDW2 = Horrible in Rain was based on a entrance to the highway that when seen in daytime, is nearly black with oil and crud all over it. The OEMs handled this turn better than the KDW2s in this situation. I discussed a similar peice with SergntMac, in person, and he told me about the rudder effect and now I had a full understanding.

Although at one time I was disapointed in the stock BFG tires in the rain along with the newer tread BFGs, I now appreciate how the newer tread BFGs handle in the rain above the stock BFG tires. My front tires are wearing very well at 20k so I will not be replacing them soon, although part of me wants to so I could feel this grip on all fours.Rider, don't shut up.:) I appreciate your candor and the fact you wrote about what happened to you. It is always better to know. Sharing information is what this club is all about. When I asked MENINBLK if his statement in regards to the safety of the KDW2 was based on tire ratings or data I was being sincere in asking. I have found no review or rating info about the KDW2 that was negative or suggested an inferior tire.

It may be he don't like the tire based on what you wrote, and it's ok, no harm no foul. Since I do have the KDW2 on my car I was concerned about his statement and what he knew about the tire that made him feel that way.

[SergntMac]

And all this time I thought tires were made from rubber that came from rubber trees.Here ya go Blue, read up?

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/recycling/awareness/facts/tires/rubberis.htm

Hate to see a friend lost in the dark, ya know?

[metroplex]

I would have recommended 17" wheels and tires, but Private Mac would want me to go and buy a Marauder first before posting in his holy presence. :bs:

There are a LOT of better tires offered in the 17" size, but hopefully more tire makers will start to produce good tires in the 18" size, and not just summer tires.

Me? I'm considering BFG All-Terrain T/A KOs... ah, the simplicity of finding tires for 16" wheels. :P

[mcb26]

I don't know what the issue with some regarding the KDW2s in rain. I haven't had any problems with them here in Nebraska in rain up to including down pours. And oh by the way, I LOVE these KDW2s compared against the OEM KDWSs. The 2s handle better, ride better, and stick to the road like duct tape! And with the 55's in the back, the tire set is more agressive looking then the OEMs.
I agree I'm running 255 2's on the rear and slightly warn oem s's on the front.It's a lot better in the rain.

[SergntMac]

I would have recommended 17" wheels and tires, but Private Mac would want me to go and buy a Marauder first before posting in his holy presence. :bs:Up...No cuts, y'all need to get back in line Charlie, and wait your turn.

Ummm...Say dude, you're kinda mezzdupthere, ain'tcha...

Sad.

Hope you feel better soon.

[MENINBLK]

Hello All,

I received an email from Cy 'TireRack' this morning...


Thank you for your inquiry.

The rear KDWS's have not been discontinued but are temporarily out of production.

If an item is out of stock and on order, we'll get 1 of the 3 responses from the manufacturer when we ask "When will get the item?"

1) IN-TRANSIT for a given date. This means the items have shipped from the manufacturer to us, we have a tracking number and are expecting on the given date.

2) ESTIMATED for a given date. This means the manufacturer is estimating that they will ship the tires so that they arrive by or on the given date.

3)BACKORDERED with the manufacturer unable to give us any estimate on when they tires will ship to us. Since the manufacturer is unable to give any estimate, it may be weeks or months before the items are available. Based on previous supply problems with a given manufacturer, we can make an educated guess on when the items will ship to us.

In all above situations we will remain in contact with the manufacturer and get periodic updates.

Your rear tires are Backordered.

My educated guess based on when we last received them, and our past history is with this manufacturer and/or item that we will receive is 2+ months.

If we stay with the stock sizes there are no other tires available. If we stay with the stock front size and run a "custom" size of 255/55-18 in the rear then we have a few more options to look at.

For a good combination of wet grip, dry grip and overall performance consider the KDW2's would be a decent choice as it performed well in the comparison tests we've done,see:


http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testResultsModel.jsp?tireMake= BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+T%2FA+KDW+2


Since the KDW2 is a Ultra High Performance summer tire, under cold and wet conditions it may not be quite as good as the KDWS
because the KDW2 is optimized for warmer temperatures.

Also we're assuming that other Marauder drivers have run 255/55-18's in the rear without a rubbing and/or traction control problem.

Thank you.

So all of you in WARMER climates can run your KDW2 fine.
I'm stuck here in NY. When the temps start dropping in October and November
I'll still need KDWS on my Marauder until I change into my snow shoes...

[MENINBLK]

Here is an interesting quote from the link that Cy provided to me...


Depending on size, g-Force T/A KDW Version 1 tires will remain available, however they should not be mixed with Version 2 tires.

So I give Kudos to whomever told us to wear either/or but not mixed... :up:

[Smokie]

Hello All,

I received an email from Cy 'TireRack' this morning...



So all of you in WARMER climates can run your KDW2 fine.
I'm stuck here in NY. When the temps start dropping in October and November
I'll still need KDWS on my Marauder until I change into my snow shoes...Thank you for the link, very good info, specially the graphs.
Seems like the KDW2 is a perfect choice for my climate, Totally superior performance....I better not go to New York in the winter I guess....:D

[SergntMac]

So all of you in WARMER climates can run your KDW2 fine.
I'm stuck here in NY. When the temps start dropping in October and November I'll still need KDWS on my Marauder until I change into my snow shoes.There's always this tire, should suit your needs just fine. Good prices, decent sizes, maximized for rain/wet climates. What more can you ask for?

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/findTireProductCategoryDetailB rnd.do?rcz=60655&rc=ILCINT&tpc=MTAHZH&tp=Passenger%2FPerformance


So I give Kudos to whomever told us to wear either/or but not mixed... :up:That was me, and my "rudder effect" explanation to Rider90. It's a principle I have believed in since my early motorcycle days, don't mix tire brands or tread designs. Thank you for the comments, and you're welcome.

[STLR FN]

Just one problem with the KDW NT; no 245/55 or 255/55, so back to square one; Ford left us with a tire size(245/55) that is not to desireable to anyone else but us Marauder owners.I'll most likely make the switch to a 255/55/18 and go from there.

[SergntMac]

Just one problem with the KDW NT; no 245/55 or 255/55, so back to square one; Ford left us with a tire size(245/55) that is not to desireable to anyone else but us Marauder owners.I'll most likely make the switch to a 255/55/18 and go from there.Why are you so focused on one particular size? There are six tires on this page that will work on our MM, not disrupt ABS/TC systems, and maintain the OEM rake. Get a little creative, use their onboard calculator to check your figures, and new tires are a piece of cake.

[Bluerauder]

Done. Posted to the thread .... also put the same comments/questions to the "Contact Us" page on the site.
OK gang .... here is the reponse that I received by e-mail from BFG. The bold highlight is my addition. My question specifically asked about the KDWS.


We apologize we do not have the tires available for your Mercury Marauder at
this time. We are the only manufacturer that makes the tire size for your
vehicle. We are going to reintroduce both sizes of tires. The 245/55ZR18
is currently on back order. BFGoodrich has plans to put tires back into
production the end of July with stock available in August.

Again we apologize that we do not have the tires available for your vehicle.

Thank you for your interest in our BFGoodrich brand tires.

If you have additional questions, please respond to this email
or you may call us at 1-877-788-8899 (toll-free) between
8:30AM and 6:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday to allow
one of our Consumer Relations Representatives to assist you.

Michelin North America
Consumer Relations Department

[STLR FN]

Then you need to tell us that in your post. Most of us are looking for 245 replacements. Yes there are other sizes available but did you mention to use the tire size calculator. Ummmm no. I also stated in my post that I was going to a 255/55, so I'm not focused on one size.
Why are you so focused on one particular size? There are six tires on this page that will work on our MM, not disrupt ABS/TC systems, and maintain the OEM rake. Get a little creative, use their onboard calculator to check your figures, and new tires are a piece of cake.
***This post is in response to what is in bold type in your response.***

[GreekGod]

I worked at a stamping/welding/assembly plant that made the (very expensive I'm told) vacuum motors for hidden headlights on old Corvettes. We would get an order about once a year to set up a run for a certain number of them. I believe GM owned the tooling and we merely stored it for them and made repairs when necessary.
Typically, Big3 production contracts/Purchase Orders have clauses in them to cover tooling costs if vehicle production is halted b4 a certain minimum is reached.

[mdmarauder]

For me I just think the 255-55 looks way too "chunky" on the back. But I am picky. I wish there was another option in the exact stock size.

[FastMerc]

Well here is the info I recieved from a tire dealer and my cousin who is a service manager at a Mercury dealer.NO distribution warehouses have any in the US,AND NO PLANS FOR PRODUCTION SOON.My cousin found a set at a tire dealership and is having them sent in,stock replacements.After that who knows,but ive got a set for another 20,000 miles.:)

[ckadiddle]

Oh Boy, another tire thread! We have been driving the last couple weeks in very rainy Florida conditions with no problems on KDW2s. They seem at least as good in the rain/wet conditions as the OEM tires. The OEMs had given us no problems in the rain, either. Also keep in mind this is on a completely stock Marauder. As far as buying tires, I did extensive web research of various web sites and makes. Called a couple local stores. My decision was mainly financial. BFGs were less expensive than the other brands I found. And, if I bought BFGs, I wanted the updated tread design.

[SergntMac]

Then you need to tell us that in your post. Most of us are looking for 245 replacements. Yes there are other sizes available but did you mention to use the tire size calculator. Ummmm no. I also stated in my post that I was going to a 255/55, so I'm not focused on one size.
***This post is in response to what is in bold type in your response.***I am totally confused by your reply. Nothing in my post was in bold. There are many options for you in tire size, this is all I am trying to point out. But you say it's my fault I didn't tell you to use the calculation feature?. Man-oh-man, that's messed up.

Good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for soon.

[Bluerauder]

Well here is the info I recieved from a tire dealer and my cousin who is a service manager at a Mercury dealer.NO distribution warehouses have any in the US,AND NO PLANS FOR PRODUCTION SOON.
That ain't what I am hearing from the BFG people. :rolleyes:

BFGoodrich has plans to put tires back into
production the end of July with stock available in August.

[STLR FN]

Mac,
I put the bold face in your reply hence my response. Understand now???

I am totally confused by your reply. Nothing in my post was in bold. There are many options for you in tire size, this is all I am trying to point out. But you say it's my fault I didn't tell you to use the calculation feature?. Man-oh-man, that's messed up.

Good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for soon.

[MENINBLK]

Why are you so focused on one particular size? There are six tires on this page that will work on our MM, not disrupt ABS/TC systems, and maintain the OEM rake. Get a little creative, use their onboard calculator to check your figures, and new tires are a piece of cake.

You need to check the LOAD RATINGS also.
They must be equivalent to the KDWS or better.

[MENINBLK]

Here is a post from the BFGoodrich link that I asked all of you to post at...



Charles,
Thank you for bringing this unusual situation to our attention. I will immediately look into the current inventory situation, future production schedule and supply issue when I get into work tomorrow and post a reply. I am unaware of any plan to discontinue these two KDWS O.E. fitments (front and rear). The KDWS is a current product tire with no plans for phase out to my knowledge.

It looks like we succeeded in getting some attention here!
Thanks for all of you that posted.

[Warpath]

I worked at a stamping/welding/assembly plant that made the (very expensive I'm told) vacuum motors for hidden headlights on old Corvettes. We would get an order about once a year to set up a run for a certain number of them. I believe GM owned the tooling and we merely stored it for them and made repairs when necessary.

IF these tires are no longer in production and BFG keeps the tooling around for short term, infrequent runs, expect the cost of the tires to sky rocket. High volume keeps prices down. Low volume drives prices up.

[SergntMac]

Mac,
I put the bold face in your reply hence my response. Understand now???Nope.

You need to check the LOAD RATINGS also.
They must be equivalent to the KDWS or better.Well, good luck there my friend. Load ratings over 100 among passenger car sport tires is rare. If you're going to hold to this "equal or better" standard, you'll never find a replacement tire. The 103 (1900 lbs.) rating of the OEM rear tire is overkill, most likely a presumption that L/M would permit higher tow capacity than came to be. Unless you happen to be towing, which isn't supported over 1500 Lbs., any load rating in the 90's is more than adequate and surely safe.

The fronts, where the car is the heaviest, and suffers the most punishment from braking and traction, are only 97 (1600 lbs.) rated, what gives? I would expect differently, nonetheless, of all ten tires sizes available in the KDWS design, 9 are below 100 load rating, only one is 101.

[MENINBLK]

IF these tires are no longer in production and BFG keeps the tooling around for short term, infrequent runs, expect the cost of the tires to sky rocket. High volume keeps prices down. Low volume drives prices up.

If BFG produces tires, like the company I work for produces computer hardware,
then your assumption is wrong.

Some manufacturers simply don't have the bandwidth necessary
to produce every single product they make simultaneously.
So they tend to rotate the production of various products
and build enough for a foreseeable forecast.
If the build forecast is TOO AGRESSIVE, then the manufacturer sits on a huge inventory
that doesn't sell and they have to mark down the inventory
in order for the product to sell, and then the manufacturer loses its profit margin.
If the manufacturer tends to be TOO CONSERVATIVE in its build forecast,
then shortages, as we are experiencing, result and the manufacturer stands to
lose sales, and that can affect the manufacturer's sales of the product overall.

This is simple marketing/production strategy, not Supply and Demand...
Inventories have a much larger impact today, on corporate stocks
then supply and demand do.
I've learnd this over the last 10 years, watching our Corporate stock take a huge beating
and watching the investment firms continue to beat us up on inventory...

So in my opinion, I don't think we will see a hike in price
simply because that would place this tire in a different pricing category
where you would find products that are much higher in quality
and performance, and that would definitely cause BFG to lose
a LARGER number of sales for this tire.

[STLR FN]

Ok then:beer:
Nope.
Well, good luck there my friend. Load ratings over 100 among passenger car sport tires is rare. If you're going to hold to this "equal or better" standard, you'll never find a replacement tire. The 103 (1900 lbs.) rating of the OEM rear tire is overkill, most likely a presumption that L/M would permit higher tow capacity than came to be. Unless you happen to be towing, which isn't supported over 1500 Lbs., any load rating in the 90's is more than adequate and surely safe.

The fronts, where the car is the heaviest, and suffers the most punishment from braking and traction, are only 97 (1600 lbs.) rated, what gives? I would expect differently, nonetheless, of all ten tires sizes available in the KDWS design, 9 are below 100 load rating, only one is 101.

[wesman]

Opinion: stock tires stink, my dollars are going elsewhere

Opinion: Rider90 your Harley Davidson truck is awesome!

[Rider90]

Opinion: Rider90 your Harley Davidson truck is awesome!

It was a very nice, and very fast truck. I miss it. The monthly payment was too steep for me after 11 months, I grew weary of making the payment and having this look after opening my wallet: :dunno: That is the truck I traded in for the Marauder.

[FastMerc]

Found a set at a Conrads,my dealer recieved them.Had them installed yesterday.Now I am set for another 20,000 miles.We shall see what the future holds for the production of this tire?

[MENINBLK]

Just another update...



***RE: RE: RE: RE: BFG g-Force KDWS availability
by TireNerd2
July 15, 2005 9:25PM

Pete and Charles,
The 245/55ZR18 g-Force KDWS O.E. Marauder rear tire you guys need is indeed back ordered.
We have arranged rush production. We will begin a new production run of the 245/55ZR18 on July 25th.
We ran out sooner than usual. The Marauder platform seems to use twice as many rears as it does fronts.
Anyway, we do have inventory for the fronts = 235/50ZR18 which are also currently in stock at the Tire Rack.
We will make plenty of rears for the Marauder real soon and sell them out immediately to fill back orders.
Please hang on for a little longer and we will meet your needs as requested.
Thank you very much for your bringing this to our attention.
To be clear, BFG has no intention to cease producing the Marauder front and rear sizes.

TireNerd2

Here is the *OFFICIAL* BF Goodrich answer....
They are coming !!!

[Tallboy]

Thanks for all your effort on this one, Pete!:beer:

[Bluerauder]

Thanks for all your effort on this one, Pete!:beer:
Yeah, thanks for the idea and for setting up the BFG thread !!! :D

[BruteForce]

The Marauder platform seems to use twice as many rears as it does fronts.

He he. I wonder why that is? :D :burnout: :burnout:

[BillyGman]

"The Marauder platform seems to use twice as many rears as it does fronts."


That is bizarre....something must be done about this!!!:eek:

[wesman]

My backs are fine, my fronts are toast from a racy alignment at 34,000 miles. I corded one on the highway the other day and 3 cops stopped to 'help'. I'm glad they did - it seems like every car is doing 95mph when you are standing on the side of the road.

[Warpath]

Load ratings over 100 among passenger car sport tires is rare. If you're going to hold to this "equal or better" standard, you'll never find a replacement tire. The 103 (1900 lbs.) rating of the OEM rear tire is overkill, most likely a presumption that L/M would permit higher tow capacity than came to be. Unless you happen to be towing, which isn't supported over 1500 Lbs., any load rating in the 90's is more than adequate and surely safe.

It could likely be that Ford sized the tire for looks and performance and the load rating fell where it did. In other words, for that size tire and performance, 103 load rating is normal. They may not have had a need for a rating that high.


If BFG produces tires, like the company I work for produces computer hardware,
then your assumption is wrong.

Some manufacturers simply don't have the bandwidth necessary
to produce every single product they make simultaneously.
So they tend to rotate the production of various products
and build enough for a foreseeable forecast.
If the build forecast is TOO AGRESSIVE, then the manufacturer sits on a huge inventory
that doesn't sell and they have to mark down the inventory
in order for the product to sell, and then the manufacturer loses its profit margin.
If the manufacturer tends to be TOO CONSERVATIVE in its build forecast,
then shortages, as we are experiencing, result and the manufacturer stands to
lose sales, and that can affect the manufacturer's sales of the product overall.

This is simple marketing/production strategy, not Supply and Demand...
Inventories have a much larger impact today, on corporate stocks
then supply and demand do.
I've learnd this over the last 10 years, watching our Corporate stock take a huge beating
and watching the investment firms continue to beat us up on inventory...

So in my opinion, I don't think we will see a hike in price
simply because that would place this tire in a different pricing category
where you would find products that are much higher in quality
and performance, and that would definitely cause BFG to lose
a LARGER number of sales for this tire.

I'm in the auto industry and whenever the volume goes down, cost has always risen. Part of the reason is limited run time as you stated. Suppliers try to balance inventory and number of production runs. Its takes valuable time to change over tools. So, they make a lot of inventory to reduce the number of change overs. In my experience, some manufacturers make up to a year of stock. Keeping that stock on hand costs money as you stated. Secondly, most of the tooling and production costs are ammoritized into the piece price. So, they will need to charge more if the volume is reduced. Lastly, low volume parts sometimes become a pain to produce compared to the high volume, high profit products and the manufacturer will charge more to make it worth their effort.

[MENINBLK]

I'm in the auto industry and whenever the volume goes down, cost has always risen. Part of the reason is limited run time as you stated. Suppliers try to balance inventory and number of production runs. Its takes valuable time to change over tools. So, they make a lot of inventory to reduce the number of change overs. In my experience, some manufacturers make up to a year of stock. Keeping that stock on hand costs money as you stated. Secondly, most of the tooling and production costs are ammoritized into the piece price. So, they will need to charge more if the volume is reduced. Lastly, low volume parts sometimes become a pain to produce compared to the high volume, high profit products and the manufacturer will charge more to make it worth their effort.

You forgot...
This is already calculated into the price of the tire.
Since BFG made LESS than they were expected to sell, they will have to make MORE to satisfy demand.
So since the next run is going to fill backorders and make surplus inventory,
the price of the tire should stay about the same or less.
We will only know for sure in August.

[Warpath]

Its all moot at this point since they will still be making them. I didn't forget. My comments were considering that the volume would change. In other words, 20,000 vehicles a year down to 8,000. Ammoritization occurs over a certain time period regardless of volume normally. Since volume would decrease, they need to ammoratize more into the piece price.

[STLR FN]

Found these for a winter tire for those of us that live in the snow belt. They come in a 255/55 and a 235/50.

http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tirebrand=Hankook&tiremodel=Icebear+W300


and had to laugh at this:

http://www.1010tires.com/TireReviews/BFGoodrich_G-Force_TA_KDWS_tire_reviews3.ht ml

[johnfain]

Negative. No issues with Traction Control or ABS whatsoever.

Thanks Rider90.
:pimp:

[MENINBLK]

Found these for a winter tire for those of us that live in the snow belt. They come in a 255/55 and a 235/50.

These are good if you plan on swapping snows between
old and new summer tires.
Some of us opted for 16"/17" wheels and winter tires.
It makes changing shoes much easier.

Winter tires generally perform better if they are narrower.
Wider tires tend to sit on the snow instead of break it up.

[STLR FN]

I only wish you could've seen me in my Monte when I had 245/50/16 in the winter, no problems. That was when I lived in PA. :D
These are good if you plan on swapping snows between
old and new summer tires.
Some of us opted for 16"/17" wheels and winter tires.
It makes changing shoes much easier.

Winter tires generally perform better if they are narrower.
Wider tires tend to sit on the snow instead of break it up.

[MENINBLK]

Just in case anyone doubted Mac's response on mixing KDWS and KDW2,
here is a reply from Cy @ Tirerack...



Mr. Romano,

2 255/55-18 rears would be $277, but then we're mixing all-season and
summer tires,
which could make the car "push" in dry conditions and make the rear end
loose in cold, wet conditions.

[Mongoose]

This tire issue is one reason I went with the widened wheels for the rear and eliminated half of the tire availability issue. Without a doubt the Goodyear Eagles hook up better than the OEM tires and last longer on the rear. The size I run has virtually the same OD as the BFG's which maintains the stock front/rear diameter ratio. I'm still looking for a suitable substitution for the fronts even to the point of modifying the front wheels. As far as any message to the powers to be at BFG, this is what happens when you don't pay enough attention to your customer base. :twocents:

[Smokie]

Just in case anyone doubted Mac's response on mixing KDWS and KDW2,
here is a reply from Cy @ Tirerack...Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Cy

Mr. Romano,

2 255/55-18 rears would be $277, but then we're mixing all-season and
summer tires,
which could make the car "push" in dry conditions and make the rear end
loose in cold, wet conditions.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The highlighted statement above about pushing in dry conditions, what does that mean? Since the rear tires push the car, how is this different kind of push measured or felt on dry pavement? Does the driver feel this push? or this a theoretical statement? Thanks.

[RR|Suki]

it means in conditions where the rear tires are optimal the fronts will lose the traction first, I'm sure you can imagine from there :D




Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Cy


Mr. Romano,

2 255/55-18 rears would be $277, but then we're mixing all-season and
summer tires,
which could make the car "push" in dry conditions and make the rear end
loose in cold, wet conditions.



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The highlighted statement above about pushing in dry conditions, what does that mean? Since the rear tires push the car, how is this different kind of push measured or felt on dry pavement? Does the driver feel this push? or this a theoretical statement? Thanks.

[Warpath]

Push = understeer. You turn the steering wheel but the vehicle want to go straight or turn at a larger radius.

Loose = oversteer. The back end swings out in a turn. It more likely happens in snow, wet pavement, too much throttle, etc.

[RR|Suki]

indeed go lock your fronts and try to turn, you lose traction in the front, and still have it in the rear, and the car won't want to turn.

[cyled]

So... has anybody tried using the fronts 235/50/18 on all four corners or the backs 255/55/18 (versus the stock) on all four corners? I am not that concerned with keeping the stock tire look as much as being able to rotate the frek'n tires to get better wear out of them.

I know that the computer will need to be calibrated...

[BillyGman]

So... has anybody tried using the fronts 235/50/18 on all four corners or the backs 255/55/18 (versus the stock) on all four corners? I am not that concerned with keeping the stock tire look as much as being able to rotate the frek'n tires to get better wear out of them.

I know that the computer will need to be calibrated...I've put the backs on the fronts, but they're P245/55/18, and not P255's. I dunno about P255's on the front. If my memory serves me right, I think that MAC once stated that he tried the P255's on the front, and they rubbed the fenders a bit. BTW, I don't have traction control on my Marauder, so I'm not sure if the P245's beingput on the front would be an issue if your car does have traction control.

[cyled]

Thanks for info! I have an early model (6/2002) 300a without traction control as well. Did you have to recalibrate the speed'o? Any issues with ABS?

[X369]

Got this e mail from BFG today:

The 245/55ZR18 G-Force T/A KDWS is in production now and
tires are being shipped to Distribution Centers and to tire dealers.
We anticipate all backorders being caught in approximately
2 weeks. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Ron