Exhaust Mod

[Reaper948]

It's really been quite a debate on what kind of exhaust we should slap onto our Marauders. But this post would express my personal opinion, not necessarily something that'd be welcomed by all. Don't get me wrong I love the look of those thick chrome pipes out the end of the Marauder and I'd love to keep it that way. However Ive been thinking about it and I'd really want more sound from my car, (as well as thinking about more power.)

The sound that's OEM, a deep smooth rumble. I'd really like a significantly louder, deeper, gurgle. I think we have a bit of gurgle already, it's just that for me it's not enough. With that, I'd love to keep the chrome pipes sticking out.

So anyone have any suggestions

[RF Overlord]

reap:

I'm by no means an exhaust system expert, but I think a "deep, smooth rumble" will be hard to get from a relatively small DOHC motor... the best you may be able to achieve will be a nice snarl a la the SALEEN Mustang, or something similar...

[Katmandu]

but I think a "deep, smooth rumble" will be hard to get from a relatively small DOHC motor...

Glasspaks! :eek:

No joke. I have a pair on my P71 and they sound GREAT!

NOT at all too loud or obnoxious as some might think!

If you keep the converters/resonators inplace, your car will still be legal and VERY tolerable with a set.

[CRUZTAKER]

I had glasspacks on my 73 Chevelle 396 (old hillbilly car), AND AT AGE 22, they never lasted more than a few months............

But BOY did I break the local sound barrier....err, ORDINANCE. :P:

[Katmandu]

I had glasspacks on my 73 Chevelle 396 (old hillbilly car), AND AT AGE 22, they never lasted more than a few months............

Roger that! :D

I've had these on this car for over a year now and they're still in good shape.

I'll go with Dynomax Super Turbos when it comes time for my Marauder.

[LincMercLover]

Got glass packs on the 66. I love the fact that you don't hear that car till it's already flown past ya! She sounds like a mean machine. Thinking about putting them on the Cougar (to tempt stupid kids my age into buying it). As for the MM, I don't think I'd go that extreme yet, that is not until I get my flame thrower kit... :D :flamer:

[looking97233]

here.

http://www.dynomax.com/ultrafloweld.stm

[martyo]

Ok everybody, if we all kick in a couple of $$, we can get LML his Flamethrowers for a reasonable price at this site: http://www.gotflames.net/flame_kits.htm

Given his hard work and dedication to this site, I think he is worth it! Anybody?

[SergntMac]

Well, hell, if it's sound you want, why not cut off the mufflers and tack in some straight pipe, let the resonators hold things down...Works for me.

Hey Marty, get me one of those flame thrower thingys, and I'll get you some dyno numbers by the end of the week. Would like to see a side by side cook-out, marshmallows vs. hot dogs, 0-cooked in under 5 seconds?

[martyo]

Frankly Sarge, I am a bit disappointed in your predictions for zero to cooked. I assume that you are calculating in this god awful winter weather that we have been having!

Well, it looks like my Chicago friends had a good ol' time in Chitown yesterday, eh?

[joflewbyu2]

i believe there is no gain to be had UNLESS YOU REPLACE THE PIPES OFF THE MANIFOLD THAT HAVE THE CATS IN IT. that is where the restriction is. now if RANDOM TECHNOLOGY would make a stainless steel down pipe with high flow cats like they do for my previous car - a GTP (3" t-304 stainless steel with high flow cat) i'd be game. that downpipe really woke up the gtp at high rpm - especially after i raised the booost from 8 psi to 11 psi (by smaller 3.4" pulley from the 3.8") and then added 2.5 high flow cat back exhaust.

[LincMercLover]

Originally posted by martyo
Ok everybody, if we all kick in a couple of $$, we can get LML his Flamethrowers for a reasonable price at this site: http://www.gotflames.net/flame_kits.htm

Given his hard work and dedication to this site, I think he is worth it! Anybody?

I'd do it, but look at the FAQ section. Gotta toss the CATS... (Something I'll do after my first inspection... :D (Shh...))

[jefferson-mo]

Hey Reap..........glasspacks=loss in horsepower...........

how 'bout gettin' the aftermarket Meg's tips that are the same as ours but no resonators........that's my plan(x-pipe, dynomax muffs and Meg's tips) so I can keep the original mufflers and tips in my garage for a rainy day...........:banana2:

[jefferson-mo]

what I meant was the hollow aftermarket tips and your stock mufflers should produce a better rumble I think......................

[joflewbyu2]

it's a myth!! there are no resonators in the oem MM megs tips. the pipe is a solid 2.25" inner pipe even thou the megs tips are 3". ONCE AGAIN THE PIPE IS SOLID. ABSOLUTELY NO LOUVERS IN THEM!! this is done as durability and fitment reason only. anyone have proof of any different, post pics to back it up.

[Murader03]

Originally posted by joflewbyu2@aol.
it's a myth!! there are no resonators in the oem MM megs tips. the pipe is a solid 2.25" inner pipe even thou the megs tips are 3". ONCE AGAIN THE PIPE IS SOLID. ABSOLUTELY NO LOUVERS IN THEM!! this is done as durability and fitment reason only. anyone have proof of any different, post pics to back it up.

I can attest to the fact that the original production tips are baffeled., well in some way made so they have less noise. I purchased a set of the pre-production tips that were offered by one of the members back in December and had them installed. The production tips were almost twice the weight of the pre-production units and it indeed improve the sound when these were installed. It sounds like a different car altogether. I don't know if the Megs tips are with or without some process to quiet them down!

[TAF]

Hey Joflewbyu....

Check out this thread from several months ago. I think there is even a pic (albeit a drawing) describing the baffles. There are even some comments from someone who worked with the original MM "mule".

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=718&highlight=tips+baffle (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=718&highlight)

Did I do that right?

[Fourth Horseman]

We've been over this many times, and you've all heard my opinion before, but... the FlowMaster 40s on my MM sound awesome. Louder (but not too loud), and sound very nice. Like RF said above, it sounds a lot like a Saleen Mustang. It's quite aggressive. I get compliments on it alot. Coworkers have mentioned how nice my Marauder sounds, for instance.

I guess the best way to describe it is that it sounds very aggressive. It's a great tone.

Leave the chrome tips alone and just swap the mufflers, that's my recommendation.

[joflewbyu2]

i have seen the inside of the oem megs tips - there is indeed NO baffles nor lovers at all. don't believe me, look inside. better yet, get a coat hanger and scrape the inside to see if you can get it hung up on a louver/baffle. WON'T happen!! still don't believe me, take pics and posts them. talk is cheap, proof is real. i would take pics but don't have a digital camera. i am not disputing that there is a sound difference - there is. double walled tubing does quiet things down a bit as well as insulate heat from melting plastic bumpers - especially when the tips are stainless steel. polished stainless steel t304 gets real hot and retains heat. louvers, baffles and lost of horsepower is all rumours and myth, just like the marauder head air valve caps! somewhere - someone misused some words and mixed up center cap to valve cap.

[merc]

Forth Horseman is right, leave the chrome tips alone. Flowmasters have a good sound, but thier are other mufflers on the market.

[joflewbyu2]

i have seen the inside of the oem megs tips - there is indeed NO baffles nor lovers at all. don't believe me, look inside. better yet, get a coat hanger and scrape the inside to see if you can get it hung up on a louver/baffle. WON'T happen!! still don't believe me, take pics and posts them. talk is cheap, proof is real. i would take pics but don't have a digital camera. i am not disputing that there is a sound difference - there is. double walled tubing does quiet things down a bit as well as insulate heat from melting plastic bumpers - especially when the tips are stainless steel. polished stainless steel t304 gets real hot and retains heat. louvers, baffles and lost of horsepower is all rumours and myth, just like the marauder head air valve caps! somewhere - someone misused some words and mixed up center cap to valve cap.

[TAF]

Hey jo...no offense, but this was a post from someone who knows...

From Brian: 11/26/02

Jim has hit it pretty close to the mark. There is also a "cap" welded on at the end of the exhaust pipe extension, and some holes drilled in the exhaust pipe extension, creating the "baffle" that JFB refers to. No change in backpressure, as the extension just extends the diameter of the exhaust pipe for a few more inches into the tip.

The extension of the exhaust pipe into the tips was done starting with a later prototype phase of the Marauder to get rid of some VERY annoying airborn exhaust "modes" that existed in early prototypes without the tip extension and "baffles" - resonances where the long, cylindrical constant diameter of the tips set up a boom, much like a pipe organ in a church sets up a tone. That boom was right on top of a passenger cavity mode, and believe me, these resonances weren't sporty or performance sounding, just boomy. One of the worst modes was at 45mph in 4th gear - ~1800rpm if memory serves me (don't quote me on that one). So, when you were commuting on the surface street at 45mph, you had a difficult time carrying on a conversation, because you had an exhaust boom filling the passenger compartment - no thanks. The tip baffles have no major affect on overall sound level, they just break up the resonanant peaks.

Early prototypes had a much louder exhaust note than later Marauders because they had different innards in the muffler. There was definitely a louder exhaust note and more idle burble with the earlier mufflers...... Those early prototypes also didn't pass the legal passyby noise requirement tests that an OEM manufacturer has to meet..


__________________
Brian

[RF Overlord]

It's hard for an amateur to get pix of something way down inside such a small pipe, but I'll try...mine DO in fact have the "caps" that Brian mentioned...maybe joalphabet has an earlier set that didn't?

[TAF]

jo,

I'll give you that the godhead valvestem caps are the big "unicorn" of the site (along with the N.J. Landaeu topped Marauder)...

See my post on the other thread (Exhaust Mod) which includes a post from someone who I KNOW, knows the evolution of the tips. Or start another thread, if you'd like. LML hasn't had much to do lately...he can clean it up....

[beemer]

LOL Todd! All I can say is it would not surprise me at all to come upon a landau "blue hair special" Marauder. Usually these packages are used to dress up the low-end GS Marquis to help the dealer squeeze the elderly out of a couple bux more, LOL.

Best to all,

Paul:D

[RCSignals]

someone at coneengineering should be able to straighten this out

http://www.coneengineering.com

[CRUZTAKER]

OOOK,

I learned something today :)

[RF Overlord]

Good luck getting through to anyone who knows anything at Cone...last time I tried, none of their e-mail addresses were valid (kept bouncing back). When I finally got someone on the phone, they told me they don't make tips for the Marauder yet...!!! After persistent badgering, I was finally transferred to someone who admitted they do build them, and they're $100/set. I have the part number at work, I'll update this post tomorrow...(Marauder tips aren't on their web site)

[joflewbyu2]

you are correct. they extended the 2.25" pipe into the 24" x 3" megs tips to reduce the effect of the tip acting like a megaphone. the fact still is: THERE ARE NO BAFFLES NOR LOUVERS IN THE TIP.

[RF Overlord]

OK. If you say so.

[TAF]

jo,

I don't think I said there were baffles. I just tried to point you to a thread from 6 months ago were I knew this was covered, and I thought I remembered us getting a pretty complete and informative answer on the tips. This was in response to your response to Bob who actually purchased a set of pre-production tips....whatever, I'm exhausted!

I've been trying to catch up on all of Sarge's posts from last week while I was on vacation. WHEW! It's like reading "War & Peace"...great stuff though.

[Reaper948]

Originally posted by looking97233
here.

http://www.dynomax.com/ultrafloweld.stm

Which model is for our car?
The super turbos or the regular welded

they look crazy nice.....:D

[CRUZTAKER]

Originally posted by Reaper948
Which model is for our car?
they look crazy nice.....

PM Fourth....and let ME know Reap. I copied and printed his post. I think I will look for flowmasters down the road when the muffler warranty runs out. I love the aggressive sound of this auto..........


and turn up the MEGAPHONES baby:burnout:

[Reaper948]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Well, hell, if it's sound you want, why not cut off the mufflers and tack in some straight pipe, let the resonators hold things down...Works for me.


well, sound AND power

[Reaper948]

Originally posted by Fourth Horseman
We've been over this many times, and you've all heard my opinion before, but... the FlowMaster 40s on my MM sound awesome. Louder (but not too loud), and sound very nice. Like RF said above, it sounds a lot like a Saleen Mustang. It's quite aggressive. I get compliments on it alot. Coworkers have mentioned how nice my Marauder sounds, for instance.

I guess the best way to describe it is that it sounds very aggressive. It's a great tone.

Leave the chrome tips alone and just swap the mufflers, that's my recommendation.

That, Horseman, sounds awesome.....
any power advtg?....sorry i know nothing about exhausts

Yea I do wanna leave those tips alone, they look crazy from the side.....
But theyre so dirty and hard to clean....:rolleyes:

[Reaper948]

so many things to do

I think Fourth Horseman's Flowmaster answer seems the most promising.......

So whats the part number on them mufflers?

Is there a power increase at all?....

'Appreciate it!

[looking97233]

Originally posted by Reaper948
Which model is for our car?
The super turbos or the regular welded

they look crazy nice.....:D

You can get what ever ones you want, the welded stainless ones are, of course alot more expensive. I like the sound of the dynaflows. It is a matter of opinion though. I recomend you listen to cars with each kind. The flowmasters and the dynaflows both lower backpressure and perform about the same, the difference is they sound completely different. Find a good exhaust shop, Portland mufflier here in Portland, Or. is awesome. The first time I went in they had a lightning, a really old Porsche roadster, and a craftsman series race truck in thier bays. They do beautiful work.

[bozobill]

Last year I posted this to MAD-3R:

"I installed a pair of Flowmasters #42441. They were a few inches shorter than the stock cans. With the addition of a couple of SS pipe lengths the stock muffler length can be replicated. Adding longer pipe lengths to get the look you're asking about would move the exhaust pipe (and of course the MEG tips) but would also place the "axle hump" of the exhaust pipe too far rearward and probably allow the downslope of that "hump" to come in contact with the axle. Not good. Also it's critical to keep the exhaust pipe well away from the rubber boots on the airlift shocks."
In addition make certain that the stock geometry of the MEG tips is maintained. If they get just a little out of alignment, it sticks out like a sore thumb. The Flowmasters sure did it for me! The sound is strong and best of all, well behind the car at cruise!

But as Sarge suggests, you may want to hold off until Dennis finishes his exhaust system upgrades currently in the final design stages.

[RCSignals]

The contact I was given for there is Craig@coneengineering.com

Was also told the price from them was $99 plus $10 shipping.

[LincMercLover]

joflewbyu2@aol,

Don't make anymore work for me... You've stated what you believe to be truth. You know how people are around here. Unless you show another or post pics, then your words are about a meaningful as RF's physiatrist! Case and point, you said what you wanted, repeatedly. Now unless you can contribute MORE to this tread than just repeating your previous post, then don't post. If you do, I'll shut it down...

[joflewbyu2]

LincMercLover, with all do respect. you being the moderator should shut down other posts that have incorrect information instead of threatening me. at least my info is correct.

[Fourth Horseman]

Originally posted by merc
Forth Horseman is right, leave the chrome tips alone. Flowmasters have a good sound, but thier are other mufflers on the market.

Yup, I thought about going with MagnaFlows for example. I'd be interested to hear of other people's results with other brands of mufflers. I understand that the quality of sound is very subjective, but it'd still be nice to hear what people think of other brands.

[Logan]

Keep this thread focused without the crap pls.

[WolfeBros]

I have a pair of magnaflows scheduled to go on my car Thursday 3/13. I will be glad to report back then and let you know how they sound. My decision to install them was done soley because I wanted alittle more rumble and has nothing to do with performance.

[Fourth Horseman]

We really need to get that national Marauder get-together to happen. If for no other reason than so we can listen to each other's exhaust sounds. :D

[BODYMAN]

I'am all for that!!!

[Billatpro]

Well I'm just to Exhausted

[CRUZTAKER]

...........and 'CHOKED' up.


A national meet would work. That I would drive to. Somewhere nice.....like Dennis' place........

[MAD-3R]

Ok, I have taken the pics, and though I'm having trouble getting them to the web, I can not see any baffels or anything else. I think it would take a disection of the tips to know the facts. As of this time joalphbet@aol.com is correct.

[Murader03]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
Ok, I have taken the pics, and though I'm having trouble getting them to the web, I can not see any baffels or anything else. I think it would take a disection of the tips to know the facts. As of this time joalphbet@aol.com is correct.

This may be true. But, I can attest to the fact that there is a substantial weight difference between the pre-production tips and what came on the car. I can also attest to the fact, that the tips I now have on the car, bought from a member here as pre-production tips, do in fact increase the exhaust note to a more agressive tone.

[cyclone03]

fourthhorseman said,


If for no other reason than so we can listen to each other's exhaust sounds.

I don't think I want to listen to you guys' exhaust,at least not on the first day we get together.:help:

[prchrman]

Started a thread yesterday asking when the national meet in Texas...no replies...nada...zilc...nothin g...is it going to happen...who started that poll questionaire thing anywho...I am interested...but no info...

[MAD-3R]

I think the sound and weight differance may be from how long the inner pipe is. On the pre pruduction tips, the inner 2.5 pipe may only go in about an inch, where on the production ones it may go in 6 or 10 inches or more. This would acount for weight differance and sound.

[SergntMac]

Wow...talk about being pulled from pillar to post, this thread has gone around the world, twice! May I throw in my .20c?

I have my tolerances for ranting and raving, and I feel it's time to reset some known facts. My conclusions are based on facts available on this site by Sean Hyland Racing and Reinhart Automotive, as well as up close and personal examinations of the OEM system by two Chicago based pros, Genesis Racing Development (ricers) and Joe Cozzi, custom fabricator of systems for kit cars. Moreover, my thoughts here are specific to the MM, other applications have not been considered, and please, know the difference between a crank and a flywheel before you flame me? Okay...For N/A MMs, the bottom line, IMHO;

For those here concerned about performance, there is nothing for you to tweak on the OEM exhaust system at the present time. Nothing that is financially responsible that is. You can add turbo mufflers, but will gain nothing. You can add headers, and get maybe 5-10 HP, but they are custom builds right now, and too expensive for the for the gain they promise. Moreover, you can add both headers and turbo mufflers, and actually give up low end HP and TQ, on an N/A MM.

The factory cats are as free flowing as you will see anywhere on the street today, the inlets are 2.25 OD, and the outlets are 2.0 OD, there are four cats, two each side, with the O2 sensor between the cats. The customizers call for replacements with "hi-flow" cats in their kit projections, but that has more to do with relocation and fit issues, and OEM cats are not available for experiment. The performance of the OEM cats is not in question at the present time, and only once a MM is available to the designers, can a side by side comparasion tell us more. That is a work in progress, underway now at Reinhart's.

The H pipe, is a CV/PI design carry over, redesinged for the MM, but still 2.0 OD and not mandrel bent. Here you could get some performance gains in a mandrel bent 2.25 OD H pipe, but, like the headers and cats, there is nothing available yet except custom builds, and they are more expensive than what the gains are worth. Be careful where your customizer places the H connection, misplaced, it could cause a deafening howl in the cabin.

H pipe or X pipe? This is a "tastes great, less filling" argument with the OEM MM system. Pick one, the differences between them are inconsequential. The custom builders lean both ways, it's more a matter of ideal fit than performance. Both pipes seem to give you what the other can, one may come to accomodate a complete system rebuild more than the other, we'll see?

Mufflers (and cats) are a special design from the manfacturer for LM (I forgot the name, but they are somewhere in Indiana, and a big OEM supplier, Walker maybe?) Problem is, the company is under license to LM and not allowed to disclose construction or provide replacement parts after market. You want a set for your CV/PI? Any LM parts counter will sell them, and they are pricey over turbo mufflers, so, why?

Ditto the Megs tips. The CONE web site is a stall, a jobber for the Megs folks. No 411 returned, no retail, no real answers. Our tips are not even listed in the inventory, and duplicating them without the resonator feature will be expensive. Again, you can get a set of something likewise fabricated, but for how much, and again, why? A few of you lucked out with some bootleg samples, God bless ya...

As for what is present inside the OEM tips, seems more a matter of words and definitions, step away from that discussion, it's wheel spinning circular argument that drains the spirit of this site.

So, while you light your torch to rip stuff out, remember that you can't replace OEM stuff easilly, or, cheaply. Of course, once you supercharge, this advice will change. It will also change once a "header to tailpipe" kit is released, and at an affordable and reasonable price for the possible 10-20 HP gain.

Now...For those of you who want to play with your sound, it's wide open, pick the noise that pleases you. I am tempted to pull the mufflers and run on resonators alone, just for the hell of it. But I also remember that this high winding small block will most likely squeal more than rumble, like my '68 Z/28 did with Hooker headers and OEM resonators. Against the deep throat of my '69 big block, the small block whinned more like a Formula 1/IRL Penske motor. Like I said, pick your noise, but don't throw out the OEM stuff. Cut nice, you may want to restore it.

BTW...It's my belief that Mensrea's killer KB-S 300A still has OEM exhaust, front to back. Seems to be okay with him, for the time being.

Whoops...Out of quarters, gotta run.

[Fourth Horseman]

Yeah, good advice on keeping the original stuff. I made sure the shop that did my muffler work made good clean cuts and then put the OEM mufflers in the trunk for me so I could save them. You just never know...

[gonzo50]

SergntMac always knows what to say and when to say it. Gotta love this guy. :scream:

[joflewbyu2]

SergntMac, www.ArvinMeritor.com is the oem exhaust supplier. bigger is not always better. too big and you lose the precious bottom end torque to get a little gain in top rpm which is limited on this car (6100 rpm redline, 6000 rpm WOT shift point, 6250 fuel shutoff) due to the torque converter not being able to handle the higher RPMs without throwing itself apart. dual 2.25" on a 302 hp engine is plenty big. once you get past 450 hp, upgrading should be looked at. changing muffler, x-pipe location or tips will effect the sound and drone. the oem mufflers do have a rubber attachment on each to cancel some drone and resonance as well as the tips being double walled.

[looking97233]

Sarge tells the truth here.

Going bigger will give up low end torque.

I asked my exhaust shop about the H pipe, they said they could do a really nice X pipe for it. They also said the X pipe would make the car quieter, add a little hp up top, but loose some down low.

I owned the cousin of the monster Sable, it was a 1998 Taurus SE Limited. 3.0L 24V DOHC, the little brother of our motor. My point, I increased the size of my exhaust, saw some gains up top, but the car fell right on its face down low. I had to have restriction plates installed in front of the muffliers to make it better.

[WolfeBros]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Like I said, pick your noise, but don't throw out the OEM stuff. Cut nice, you may want to restore it.

BTW...It's my belief that Mensrea's killer KB-S 300A still has OEM exhaust, front to back. Seems to be okay with him, for the time being.


Well fellows here is my $400 and .02 C worth. Truer words may not have ever been spoken than what the Sarge said above. I just had the 18" Magnaflows installed. I was after alittle more agressive sound and not a performance enhancement. Well.......the dang 18" Magnaflows are quieter.....yes quieter than the stock system. I admit there is alittle bit more of a deeper tone but at about 1/3 or so less the sound than before. I was being alittle conservative with the 18" but thats what the muffler guy recommended as well. So in a nut shell.....I would take the $400 and put it in my back pocket before I would make this change. I am now thinking about going back and getting the 14" mufflers and hope I like that better. I found Logan's post last night and saw he basically went thru the same process. Wish I had found it before I ordered the 18's. Oh well ......live and learn guys. The best part of your exhaust system may well be whats already there......until someone engineers the right after market performance system for the car. If I put the 14's on I will post again. In the meantime maybe the others will burn in and get alittle more aggressive over time.

[Macon Marauder]

Originally posted by WolfeBros
Well fellows here is my $400 and .02 C worth. Truer words may not have ever been spoken than what the Sarge said above. I just had the 18" Magnaflows installed. I was after alittle more agressive sound and not a performance enhancement. Well.......the dang 18" Magnaflows are quieter.....yes quieter than the stock system. I admit there is alittle bit more of a deeper tone but at about 1/3 or so less the sound than before. I was being alittle conservative with the 18" but thats what the muffler guy recommended as well. So in a nut shell.....I would take the $400 and put it in my back pocket before I would make this change. I am now thinking about going back and getting the 14" mufflers and hope I like that better. I found Logan's post last night and saw he basically went thru the same process. Wish I had found it before I ordered the 18's. Oh well ......live and learn guys. The best part of your exhaust system may well be whats already there......until someone engineers the right after market performance system for the car. If I put the 14's on I will post again. In the meantime maybe the others will burn in and get alittle more aggressive over time.

Dude! Sorry to hear. But thanks for blazing that trail. I like the way mine sounds even more now!:)

[WolfeBros]

You are more than welcome. Thats what is great about this board. You hear about what works, and you hear about what doesn't. If we all pay attention you can save some money and avoid the mistakes others have made. When the right system comes out......I will make the change. :rolleyes:

And this is not to diss the Flowmasters that FourthHorseman likes or the 14" that Logan said he liked. For the time being I am just not throwing any more money at it. Thats not to say I won't later......:D
Their solution might be the perfect answer.

[Fourth Horseman]

I don't really know all that much about muffler technology, but my understanding was that the MagnaFlows have some kind of a filler material in them to help soak up sound. Is that the case?

The thing about the FlowMasters is that there is no filler. If you look at a cut open FlowMaster it's just a series of 'baffles' designed to adjust harmonics, I guess. Perhaps this is why the FlowMasters are louder than the MagnaFlows you tried?

As I said, I don't know, just looking for an explaination why the FlowMasters are louder and your new MagnaFlows are not. *shrug*

[WolfeBros]

I'm not sure either Fourth Horseman. The custom shop I went to had both brands. I do know that the guy was afraid of making the car too loud. This was the first Marauder that he had seen. I will say that this was the first time I have been under the car. The LM boys did a good job on exhaust and suspension IMHO.

[Murader03]

Be cautious with the Flow Masters. Our cars aren't much different from Mustangs engine wise, and they create a drone about 2000-2500 rpm on the 'stangs. Don't know what they will do with the MM.

[marauder1]

I have the Flow masters and yes they do have the drone between 2000-2500 but, everyone comments on how good it sounds. I just stay out of that RPM range as much as possible.

[looking97233]

Okay,

This one http://www.dynomax.com/ultrafloss.stm
or this one, http://www.dynomax.com/ultrafloweld.stm
but, not this one,
http://www.dynomax.com/superturbo.stm

[looking97233]

pics of each

[looking97233]

other one

[WolfeBros]

Thanks for the 411 guys. I am usually in that 2000 - 2500 rpm range and definitely do not want that drone. Logan suggested the 14" round Magnaflows as he had tried both the 18" and 14" ovals and they were not as aggressive as he wanted either.

[Fourth Horseman]

Yeah, there is a bit of a drone, but I pass through it really quickly. Crusing down the interstate at ~2200 RPM to ~2500 RPM I never hear it. It's only when accelerating away from a light.

The drone is very minor and not at all harsh. Perhaps the larger size of the car has something to do with that.

I don't find it annoying at all, but it's probably a good idea to hear it for yourself before taking the plunge.

[CRUZTAKER]

WOW, keep talkin' guys. I'm soakin' it all in.

[bozobill]

Fourth: My 40's never produced an irritating drone at cruiing speeds either. What anyone on the fence may want to do is opt for the Flowmaster 50 Series. Supposed to be quieter. By the time I got to 9000 miles, the 40"s were LOUD!

[SergntMac]

Well, guys...here's news, but not great news.

The OEM Megs tips...They are resonators. True, and truly, resonators, "mini-mufflers" if you will. The tips do "process" exhaust flow, and add a quieting affect to the exhaust tone. How do I know?

I spent the afternoon with John Cozzi, a local Chicago exhaust system pro, and former 1/4 mile hero. Chief wrench on the "We Haul" and "High Chaparell" cars years ago, today John builds custom exhaust for street rods and kit cars, while not running his Midas shops. Local to me, this guy knows his stuff.

We carefully removed the OEM mufflers, and fit a section of straight pipe in their place. John's custom straight pipe is smoothly flared from the 2" OD H pipe, to the 2.25" OD exhaust pipe, a sleek conversion into the mandrel bent OEM exhaust pipe, and on from there to the Megs tips.

Sealed up nicely and now depending on Megs resonators only, the tips prove themselves to be doing their resonator quieting job. The car is barely, but technically, still street legal at idle, under casual "laid-back" acceleration, up to local cruising speeds. Once you spank the b**ch, all sound bets are off.

Like I thought, the MM 281 CID small block winds and whines like a high screaming banshee, like one of those Lotus motors from Indy..."wing, wing, wing"...Ugh! Not the down low grrrrumble that fits the image of a big, black, broad, bada**, heavy muscle car I (and you) want to hear, eh?

No cabin drone to speak of, only lightly detectable from behind the wheel. But, like passing gas, we only wonder what other hear, yes?

From the curb, any spectator would search aimlessly for a crying baby in an out of control stroller as you leave a stop light with an urgent need to leave rightnow. Moreover, John's expectation, is that the OEM tips will "wear thin." Wear thin, or, comfortable to our ears, but wear nonetheless. Wear from burn out, like glass packs, meaning that they will loose their effectivness over time. Not necessarilly getting louder, as we have noticed this in our "break in" discussions, but wearing thin just the same.

However, when you leave the resonators to do it all on their own, you wear them thin very early, and much sooner, they will come to create, or, allow, a wind down "blap, blap, blap," on any exit ramp, or, in all deceleration from high RPM.

Before you think this is cool, John believes this blap will come to burn out the tips, then the cats, and O2 sensors, and then exhaust valves, and in that order. Like a virus, it will crawl forward, and eat what is next.

His closing comment as I drove away for a few days of street tests..."most expensive Honda V6 I ever heard." Ouch!

Next Tuesday, (if y'all can wait that long), John will be pulling the straight pipes for something John has in mind. I begged him for a hint, he only smiled and said "go on now, this was you're idea, come back Tuesday, it's my turn." So, I went...I go, and I will be going back Tuesday. This sound sucks.

Until then, straight pipe is not an option. If you still have the OEM Megs tips, they are true, and truely...resonators. Let's not say anything here before then, to close this thread, k?

[WolfeBros]

Interesting post as usual Sarge and timely for me. I called and talked to my exhaust guy yesterday. I told him I liked the tone of the new 18" Magnaflows but that they were quieter than stock and not what I was after. I talked to him today and told him I was ready to try 14" Magnaflows. He said he had been thinking about it and wondered why I didn't just change the exhaust tips and get rid of those resonators. I asked him how he knew they were resonators and he told me he could tell by the way they narrowed down looking into the throat of the tip. He said the SS guys all use the 18" Magnaflows and like the sound and the output level. I am trying to contact that outfit in Houston that sells the exact Marauder tips without the resonators in them. So it sounds (not a pun) like the right muffler w/o the dang resonators MAY provide the sound I am after. I will keep this thread posted on progress as well. In the meantime guys......don't cut off your mufflers.

[joflewbyu2]

SergntMac, glad you experimented with what i wanted to do. i thought just replacing the mufflers with straight pipes would sound good and deep, GUESS NOT - huh! really love the megs tip's quality and looks and would hate to get rid of them. originally wanted to go the expensive route (approx. $780 shipped) for an all t304 stainless steel borla system but decided not to after falling in love with the meg's tips. **** ! now what?

[LincMercLover]

Just something to back-up Sarge's statement, and for a reminder for those who want to do this:

http://www.innovativeinterceptors.com/index/products.html

Item #INT02X

They also have the origanals, and look-a-likes.

[WolfeBros]

I am trying to order the tips without resonators from ^^above^^
mentioned supplier. No phone number and very slow to respond to emails. I am anxious to try these tips for sound improvement and will report back results.

[WolfeBros]

I just talked to Cone Engineering the folks that make Meg tips.
I have a part number and a price for OEM type Marauder tips without internal resonators. They are currently out of stock but expect to have them in by the end of the week. I have ordered a pair. If you all will wait I will report back on quality, build, sound ect..... I do not want to break any site rules since they are not a supporting vendor, anyone wanting p/n & price can PM me or you can contact them directly at www.coneengineering.com

[TAF]

Thanks Wolfe. I'm VERY interested in your findings...

[martyo]

Wolfe: Let us now about the removal and install procedures as well.

[Murader03]

Originally posted by WolfeBros
I am trying to order the tips without resonators from ^^above^^
mentioned supplier. No phone number and very slow to respond to emails. I am anxious to try these tips for sound improvement and will report back results.

Wolfe, You might want to go to LM and get a set of hangers. They won't come with the required hangers installed, at least the pre-production tips I got didn't have them. Yours might! I can attest that you'll like the sound. The install was straight forward. The orginals were cut off at the begining of the tip, and the new ones welded in. The hangers were welded onto the tips after they were installed on the car to ensure correct clearance.

[WolfeBros]

Thanks Murader03.....thats pretty much how my exhaust guy hung the mufflers as well. Cut the hangers and reused them by welding them on. I will let you guys know how it works out. The darn things were backordered. Somebody is putting them on !!

[Katmandu]

Suggestion....

What if someone could set up a site that has "Sound Bytes" for different exhaust configurations.

That way, folks could hear the different combos and make a more informed decision on which way to go.

[TAF]

What if someone could set up a site that has "Sound Bytes"

I don't think I want to hear the "sound bites" that some might post...

:lol:

Seriously...ALL the more reason for us to plan a meet somewhere this summer...

[LincMercLover]

I think a CV guy posted a bite of his somewhere on here... You'd have to search.

[SergntMac]

Just an update on my exhaust project...

John Cozzi hooked me up with a real nice exhaust system, and for a reasonable price as well. I'll explain more later today, when I get back from the dyno with some performance numbers. John and I have a side bet going on his theory, he believes I'll make HP and TQ with my new stuff, I do not, so, tune later and watch me eat crow. I'll probably start a new thread because this thread is getting very long, but I'll post a link here too.

[WolfeBros]

I can't wait to hear what Sarge is up to. (no pun intended):D

[SergntMac]

Well folks, I got more news. Not bad news, not good news, more like no news. Kept my noon appointment for today at the dyno, and after my 75 mile drive way out there, I'm told that the dyno is down because the tech that runs it, called in sick. Jeeze...You would think they could have given me a call, eh? Bet they would have called me, and billed me too, had I become sick and not given them the courtesy...Sorry, will keep you posted.

[WolfeBros]

Opps.....thought I was going crazy.....already posted on this in another thread.....nevermind

[SergntMac]

If you're reading this, y'all got to look up Wolfe's post about MM tips from MEGS. The man did his homework alright, and we're all going to benefit from that. ^5 Wolfe, nice work.

I promised to report back here with the 411 on my exhaust mods, and with a dyno report on performance gains. Sorry, I won't be able to produce that. The war in Iraq, has me on high alert, 12 hour shifts and cancelled days off. Haven't seen my desk in a week now, and I won't be getting away soon. The testing will have to wait.

What I can report on, is my new exhaust system. John Cozzi put this together for me, and while I have no expectations of any performance gain, he does. John believes the OEM exhaust system is about perfect for most of us, but it lacks a respectful muscle car tone. We discussed the brand name turbo mufflers and specs, and found them mostly alike, generic, with the decision falling to brand loyalty, or, personal preferrences. Then John showed me the RaVin Z55. (P/N 554201)

www.goravin.com

I suppose the Z55 is also just another generic turbo muffler, but what I do like about RaVin, is that they have tested their product against others for maximum air flow (expressed in CFM), and that test shows the RaVin to be superior. Ummm...okay, that is what is important here, right? Free flowing air? So, I bought them. At least, RaVin has done some testing, and posted the numbers. Other MFG sites do not post tests, but they do make a lot of enticing promises.

One set installed, $297.00, including tax. Your price may vary due to local labor rates. Now, how do they sound? Well, just like the audio sample at the site, more throaty at idle, and under 2500 RPM. Louder than OEM, yes, but not overpowering. I suppose that if you are inclined to want more tone from your MM, you will like what these mufflers sound like. BTW, powder coated black too.

I then road tested the install for cabin drone or hum, and have little to report. The Z55s are their loudest at idle and under normal acceleration up to 2500 RPM. Under WOT and in the higher RPMs, the 4.6 motor noise overpowers the exhaust. Rap them off lightly at a stop light and people notice, I'm getting a few more grins and thumbs up, without being pushy or threatening. Again, John swears on his mother's grave, that I should see more HP and TQ, but in the single digits. That's cool, I'll take them, but I'll wait until I can prove it, because my seat-of-the-pants meter isn't registering much of a change. For the money, the tone is surely worth it, more Hp and TQ would be a freebie now. Ohhh...Where can you get them?

Any Midas Muffler shop.

[martyo]

Sarge and others: By any chance, does anyone have the p/n for the hangers for the tips or is Wolfe's approach of cutting them off the old ones the way to go?