WOT "Bog" ...... Cruise "Bucking"......

[Marauderjack]

Hey Folks.....

Dennis responded to my "Wot Bog" thread with a new SCT 9100 file to try in my 04 Marauder!!! :bows: Thanks Mr. Reinhart!!! :beer:

The program Dennis sent works much better with only a hint of WOT "Bog" which is probably related to alternator control?? :confused:

Dennis' program Locks the TC in 4th at 50 MPH (Ideal!!) and with O/D off it locks in 3rd at 40 MPH (Also very nice!!).......Problem is my car was bucking with the TC locked in 4th at about 1500 RPM's....Seemed like a slight misfire at constant speed that went away upon acceleration??? :mad: Pretty annoying around town but not as evident at highway speeds....2000 RPM's. :cool4:

I had replaced my NGK (TR6IX) plugs a month ago with another set but this time, at the direction of an NGK tech, gapped them at .050" (My first set was at factory setting of .035"). I wondered if the wider setting was causing this "Bucking" so I pulled them yesterday and set them at .040"......VOILA.....NO MORE BUCKING IN TC LOCK!!!!! :banana: BTW I couldn't feel it or hear it with the TC unlocked so it was ever so slight. :nono:

I wonder what the Densos are set at from the factory?? :confused: I had some for about 12K miles but upon hearing about someone having problems removed them and replaced with NGK's with a larger Iridium electrode!! ;)

Just thought I'd post this incase anyone else has this slight misfire condition!!??

Marauderjack :D

[Blackened300a]

Im Pretty sure my Densos were Gapped at .050 and the only issue I have is that the idle seems a bit choppy at times, but no hesitations

[Marauderjack]

It wasn't a hesitation but a minor miss!!! Only once every 10-15 seconds or so but very noticable!!!

Most "Non-Factory" tunes lock the TC 100% and any engine bucking or misfires are accentuated by this!! It is my understanding that "Stock" programs lock the TC in varying degrees allowing some slippage and making the misfires less noticable?? :confused:

I believe that .050" is too wide a gap for Iridium plugs since going to .040" eliminated the problem!! :cool:

BTW blower cars have spark gap recommendations of .035" to ensured good spark at elevated fuel and air volumes...I think?? :)

Marauderjack :D

[GreekGod]

Did you use anti-seize on the treads? Did you remove with a warm engine? I ask because I'm going to pull the plugs on my dad's '93 Gran Marquis and am wary of taking out the plug hole threads since we don't know the maintenance history and I wish to avoid having to Heli-coil them.
It wasn't a hesitation but a minor miss!!! Only once every 10-15 seconds or so but very noticable!!!

Most "Non-Factory" tunes lock the TC 100% and any engine bucking or misfires are accentuated by this!! It is my understanding that "Stock" programs lock the TC in varying degrees allowing some slippage and making the misfires less noticable?? :confused:

I believe that .050" is too wide a gap for Iridium plugs since going to .040" eliminated the problem!! :cool:

BTW blower cars have spark gap recommendations of .035" to ensured good spark at elevated fuel and air volumes...I think?? :)

Marauderjack :D

[Marauderjack]

All I use for aluminum heads is a dab of Hi-Temp silicone grease...snug them down good and that's it!! :beer: I have never torqued them and never had any issues with threads....mostly outboard motors over the years?? :bows:

Honestly there should be enough oil on the threads from the combustion process not to worry about it?? :confused:

Be sure to do it on a cold engine or you will bring threads out too!! :mad2: :argue:

Marauderjack :D

[RF Overlord]

Did you use anti-seize on the treads? Did you remove with a warm engine? GreekGod, do NOT attempt to remove the plugs from a warm engine, or you WILL become a heli-coil expert. Do it when cold ONLY! If one seems to bind up a little when you're removing it, just kind of work it back and forth (in and out?...up and down?) a little and it should eventually come out without damaging anything.

Another tip is to be sure you blow all the dirt and debris out of the spark plug wells BEFORE you remove them. You don't want that junk dropping down into the cylinders or getting stuck in the threads and creating a problem when you put the new ones in.

As far as using anti-seize, that seems to be a matter of debate. The factory does not use it, but many knowledgeable people say to do so...if you do, use it VERY SPARINGLY...just a tiny dab on the threads. You should also reduce the setting on your torque wrench by about 10% if you use anti-seize...you ARE going to use a torque wrench to install the new plugs, RIGHT?

[GreekGod]

Thanks everyone for your help on this one! I couldn't remember if removal was best with a hot or a cold engine. My experience with BMW Boxer twins has made me very aware and cautious of aluminum cylinder heads. I know about using the antisieze sparringly as it is a conductor and should not be anywhere but on the threads above & outside of the chamber. I always try to use my Craftsman 'clicker' type inch pound torque wrench on sparkplugs.
GreekGod, do NOT attempt to remove the plugs from a warm engine, or you WILL become a heli-coil expert. Do it when cold ONLY! If one seems to bind up a little when you're removing it, just kind of work it back and forth (in and out?...up and down?) a little and it should eventually come out without damaging anything.

Another tip is to be sure you blow all the dirt and debris out of the spark plug wells BEFORE you remove them. You don't want that junk dropping down into the cylinders or getting stuck in the threads and creating a problem when you put the new ones in.

As far as using anti-seize, that seems to be a matter of debate. The factory does not use it, but many knowledgeable people say to do so...if you do, use it VERY SPARINGLY...just a tiny dab on the threads. You should also reduce the setting on your torque wrench by about 10% if you use anti-seize...you ARE going to use a torque wrench to install the new plugs, RIGHT?

[RF Overlord]

I know about using the antisieze sparringly. I always try to use my Craftsman 'clicker' type inch pound torque wrench on sparkplugs.:up: :rasta:

[Marauderjack]

Well.....I have been really critical of the TC lock and "Bucking" I have felt...and it is ever so slight but it is there at 50-55 MPH with the TC locked!!! :mad2: If I listen very closely the engine is not misfiring but it is doing some quick surging...I think?? :confused:

I have checked all the vacuum lines...bunches of them and no real way to see if they are leaking!! PCV is free and working.....I pulled off the line to the intake and Holy Crap....Mega-Vacuum and crazy motor reaction!!! :bows: Sorry!! :rolleyes: BTW...There are vacuum sensors all over the motor!!

I wonder if 40 PSI in the rears is just accentuating road conture and or driveline lash....At 70 MPH it is not detectable and mileage is still 23-24 MPG at 75-80 MPH so it can't be serious?? :confused:

Ideas...Group??

Marauderjack :o

[GreekGod]

I personally think 40 psi is NUTS! Sorry, but unless you are going up a ramp to drive on two wheels like a stunt driver, contact patch would certainly seem to be compromised by going more than 3 or 4 psi above recommended pressures. My sidewall says 44 psi max., but more is not always better.

[JACook]

I have never torqued them and never had any issues with threads....mostly outboard motors over the years?? You would do well to rethink the torque thing on your MM. Otherwise, commit this name to memory- "TimeSert".

[Marauderjack]

We have been around and around with the air pressure thing and 38-40 PSI will get you over 30K miles on the rears provided you don't spin them all the time....My car won't spin from a SS except in the rain!! :rolleyes:

My OEM rears lasted about 12K miles as I LOWERED pressure to try and save the centers (Conventional Wisdom) ...... These BFG's need more pressure to stabilize the sidewalls and prevent or minimize cetrifugal force at highway speeds from causing them to run on the centers......SECOND SET AT 40 PSI LASTED 34K MILES!!!!! :beer:

As for "Mr. Smarty" Cook......I have a torque (inch pound) wrench and can do the plugs either way...by hand or with the torque wrench I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM!!! 45 years of outboard motors, 5 Crown Vics and now the Marauder....So far, according to you, I've been lucky...I guess?? :bows:

Marauderjack :cool4:

[Dragcity]

O.K. I have my first official issue with the way my MM is running. I am at 25K and put on the GMS Coil Connectors and have developed this bucking at 1300 - 2000 RPM Seems to be in Lock-up under load conditions.

Now I know someone else has experienced this. Seems to happen when hot. Do I need cooler plugs ???????????

I've checked wire connections and all plugs are presently gapped at .054. Tighter gap ??????

I am doing a lot of H-way driving and need to address this tonight. I am running a tune, but does it w/factory settings as well. I have a feeling I am running a bit rich. There is more carbon on the tailpipes than I care to see.

I will clean out the throttle body with sensor safe spray when I address the plugs, but could use some help here, before I go chasing a ghost....

[RF Overlord]

Seems to happen when hot. Do I need cooler plugs ???????????Whether cooler plugs are appropriate has nothing to do with engine (coolant) temp. The heat range of a plug determines how rapidly it dissipates heat from the electrodes into the head. I suggest you check with your tune supplier to see whether he recommends cooler plugs with his tune (some do, some don't).
...does it w/factory settings as well. I have a feeling I am running a bit rich. There is more carbon on the tailpipes than I care to see.Well, being over-rich has its pluses and minuses...on the plus side, it's safer than being too lean. On the minus side, it reduces power, and can prematurely age your cats. You should probably have your A/F checked to be sure. Also, try cleaning your MAF with electronic contact cleaner, the kind that leaves no residue. As far as cleaning the TB, make sure you use a cleaner that specifies it's safe for coated throttle bodies.

*EDIT* Before cleaning your MAF, disconnect the negative cable from the battery and reconnect it when you're done, to allow the PCM to adapt.

[TripleTransAm]

May be related or may not be... the Marauder (and possibly other 4.6s) tends to behave oddly at 1500 RPM. It appears to be fuel-cutoff related, since I can reproduce this by keeping the transmission in a lower gear such as 3rd while decelerating... at 1500 RPM the engine will begin to surge wildly. Judging by the exhaust note, it appears to be the fuel supply kicking back in after being in cutoff mode during the deceleration.

Perhaps this behaviour is more noticeable (and objectionable) with new tranny programmings that keep the TCC locked even when lifting off the gas pedal completely. So the fuel supply kicking back in and out at 1500 would definitely be more noticeable with a held-locked converter. In my case, it's only noticeable through the exhaust note and the tachometer, since I have the stock calibrations on both my Marauders.

This may not be 100% of what has been experienced in this thread, but may account for some others who experience the bucking in a more pronounced fashion at 1500 with modified TCC schedules.

[DEFYANT]

If you turn the steering wheel at low RPM, the engine will surge to provide the PS the power it needs.

Could this be what you are referring too?

[Dragcity]

Defyant,

No, it happens while driving, for example:

I am cruising along at 40 MPH. I gently depress the accelerator and the bucking/repeated hesitation/chugging begins. This happens all the time betweem the 1300 to 2000 RPM range. To get it to stop, I have to accelerate harder to exceed 2100 R's.

This is new, and consistant. I am quite trouble about it and need to a look into it tonight. The MAF sensor may be the culprit, but I will examine all avenues. I am reasonably sure it is and easy fix. Just looking for some direction from those who have experienced this. I hate to bring it in to the dealer. I am a little paranoid about them poking around.

Thanks for your help.

[Marauderjack]

Assuming your MAF sensor is clean and the TPS is OK I would almost bet that one of the coils is intermittantly bad.....Dealers can check them for you.

Mine drove me nutso for about a year until I got the GMS connectors...Problem solved!!:beer:

Did you get all of the connectors seated well....I don't know how you could miss with them but there is always a possibility?? Also, what plugs are you running??

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Dragcity]

Stock plugs. I cleaned and checked the gap when I installed the coil connectors.

One of my plugs was under water, that one may be bad ?? The Coil cover must have had a bad seal in the back, the passenger side near the firewall plug shaft was filled with water. Blew it out before removing the plug.

Sounds like I need to throw new plugs at it (Give me a brand and Part # please) , clean the MAF , Clean the TB and might as well throw a new air filter at it too.

If that doesn't do the trick, it's off to the dealer for warranty work I guess.

Any other suggestions?

[Marauderjack]

You know my #4 plug has had water around it as well....I cannot see where it comes from but the aluminum is corroded!!:argue:

I would almost bet that the coil on that plug is bad especially if you had water in the plug hole.

If your car is under warranty I'd put the stock tune in and get the dealer to check the ignition for you. I have 2 new coils that I bought and replaced mine 2 at a time to see if I could track the bad one down but it ended up being the connectors!!:beer: I could send you one to try if you like??

Also, is the connection on the plug that was under water clean now??:confused:

Marauderjack:pimp:

[Dragcity]

Yessir, All clean and a thin coat of dielectric.

The water comes in where the wiring harness comes into the coil pack assy. I used RTV Blue to seal it up. I'll see tonight how that worked out. Roads have been mesys up here.

Thanks for the offer on the coil pack. If my attempts fail, I will have the dealer do their thing. I will take off the new coil connectors and reinstall the pen springs. I don't want any of their crap. Not to mention, they would probably replace them with stock, ya' think....

Have we had a problem with coil packs going?

Thanks.

[Marauderjack]

Yes Sir....

Coil on plug (COP) has been an ongoing problem with Ford but not as bad as wires were!!?? I think the coils are overheating from where they live plus heat generated by high resistance from poor connections with the springy dingies!!:down: :shake:

My dealer says he can test and diagnose bad coils in a few minutes...May be worth you while to do it even though it is a pain in the rear!!:argue:

Believe me I know what you are going through with the "Phantom Missfire"!!!:help:

Good Luck!!

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Dragcity]

Thanks for the help.

Can't I just stick my finger in the boot to see if I get a good Zap? Yow....Yow....Yow....Yow....

[Marauderjack]

Sure You Can.....Just be sure someone videos you while you do it!!!:D :lol:

[jgc61sr2002]

Sounds like an electrical problem. IMO. Possible missfire.

[Dragcity]

Well, I cleaned the TB and MAF sensor, checked all the COP connections and was expecting a fine 90 mile ride to work today. No such luck. Same problem. :mad2:

I will search for the right plugs locally this evening.

Do we all agree I should go one range cooler? :confused:

[RF Overlord]

Do we all agree I should go one range cooler?No, we don't. Did you contact your tune provider like I suggested? Installing cooler plugs where they aren't recommended can result in fouling problems. The electrodes need to be at the right temperature to keep deposits from forming.

Cooler plugs in and of themselves will NOT make the car run any better, get better gas mileage, or have any other observable gain. Their sole benefit is to help prevent pre-ignition when used with an aggressive tune. I'm not saying cooler plugs won't be beneficial in your case, only that they shouldn't be used unless the tune requires them.

[Dragcity]

Allright, allright. Thanks Dad. I'll call Dennis. I want to order a Proguard anyway.

Called the dealer and they said they'd do new plugs under warranty for me. Nice guys. I may go with Iridium though, the right temp as recommended by my tuner....

Thank You !

[SergntMac]

I don't think a "cooler" plug is an answer here, but new plugs may help you run this down.

I had the bucking too, but it was transient, intermitent. It went away altogether when I added the Granatelli COP connectors. You prolly have a bad coil pack, but could have a bad plug too, and plugs are cheaper to experiment with, yes?

[Dragcity]

After talking with my sevice guy at the dealer it's likely a plug. He said I'd probably get a light if it was a coil.

I e-mailed Dennis to help me out w/plugs.

I thank you all for all the chat. Guess I'm a little thick with this plug thing. It seemed easier in the old days. Maybe I just got lucky.

[wchain]

Motorcraft ­ AGSF32WM $3.00 each/free ground shipping, or you can try your McParts store as well.

[Dragcity]

As promissed, I am giving everyone the resolve to my "missing" issue.

Finally got to the dealer today. As posted by others here, I arrived with a box of donuts and bag of bagles and went for a ride with the mechanic. He asked if I was sure it was a miss and said it might be the transmission. We hit 45 and were cruising and he accelerated slowly, and said, that's a miss allright.

Sure enough, #4 coil and plug were repalced and deemed bad. Tech was surprised the Check Engine light did not show. Had the passenger seat leather re-attached undrneath as well. All warranty.

Nice bunch of folks at Culligan Lincoln Mercury.

I'm on the road again...

[rayjay]

As promissed, I am giving everyone the resolve to my "missing" issue.

Finally got to the dealer today. As posted by others here, I arrived with a box of donuts and bag of bagles and went for a ride with the mechanic. He asked if I was sure it was a miss and said it might be the transmission. We hit 45 and were cruising and he accelerated slowly, and said, that's a miss allright.

Sure enough, #4 coil and plug were repalced and deemed bad. Tech was surprised the Check Engine light did not show. Had the passenger seat leather re-attached undrneath as well. All warranty.

Nice bunch of folks at Culligan Lincoln Mercury.

I'm on the road again...

Joe, surprised they did not blame your GMS COP connectors.

[Dragcity]

Rayajay,

Funny you should ask that. I saw the Tech at Church this morning (he and his Family belong to the same parish) and he asked how the Marauder was. I said it was great and he went on to say how he and all the other techs were checking out the wires and were totally impressed with the upgrade.

They really are a great bunch up there. It is in a hoity-toity area and the dealership prides themselves it exceptional service. It's funny how they have TimBits for the customers, but nothing for their Techs. I'll take care of that...

Turns out I used to Drag-race with one of the Service Writers. He was commenting on how the hell I got such cool plates "DRAGCITY" and as I was telling the long story, he takes out some pics of a '72 Nova 'Jolly Olly Orange' from way back when and I say " I used to see you race all the time. He asks what I ran and said "holy *****, That was the fastest steeter I ever saw, big ash lead sled to boot" Good times. We'll be doin some racing in the future.

He wants me to go for the Blower. He said to let them build up the bottom end first though. It was a good day.

I was going to put the "springy-thingys" back in but thought, how could these Super Duty connectors void a warranty?

[Marauderjack]

Hey Joe....

Maybe the water in the #4 hole killed the coil??:help:

Everyone should remove the passenger side coil cover and inspect for leaks!!:shake:

Glad you got 'er fixed Joe!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[SergntMac]

Congrats on the resolution.

[rayjay]

Joe, its a good having a mod friendly dealer. My selling dealer was not, but my local FLM dealer is. They also know what a Marauder is as they've sold a few. They have a beautiful 03 Blk 300A on the lot with 18k now just waiting to be adopted. Wife will need a car soon, :D