stallion tc question

[bigjon]

i have been reading a lot of posts reguarding the famed 9.5" stallion torque converter.

i currently have a 11.25" ford stocker. it is close to what came stock in the marauder. i have not had a dyno run to see my tq curves.

i was just wondering what y'all could recommend to me reguarding this awesome torque converter. should i go for it? street driveability? whick stall speed(estimated)? best programmer?

i think i am going to keep my car for a long time. so i just was wondering about this huge bang for the buck mod. i have posted questions on other boards, but no one has the 'reputation' with this mod that this board has.

also est. costs of install would be grateful. would i need a different flex plate?

any info would be grand!

[Blackened300a]

Some Guys who installed the Stallion have reported in previous posts a gain of up to 7 tenths in the 1/4. I Been pondering this mod for a while, I shall be keeping an eye on this thread for info

[huot5]

I have only heard good things about the MM's response with the TC. I am in the process of getting it done on my MM. I will try to post pics soon...there is quite a size AND construction differential between OEM and the PI TC.

[Blackened300a]

I have only heard good things about the MM's response with the TC. I am in the process of getting it done on my MM. I will try to post pics soon...there is quite a size AND construction differential between OEM and the PI TC.
I look forward to hearing what the difference in power and whats involved once its done!

[MarauderMark]

Welp i ran a 13.4 with the stock t/c and as soon as i added the pi stallion my 13.4 went to 12.4.:burn:.yea it's a good bang for the buck..:up:

[Big House]

WOW:baaa: Now is that the only thing you changed between runs, because if so it is a done deal.


Welp i ran a 13.4 with the stock t/c and as soon as i added the pi stallion my 13.4 went to 12.4.:burn:.yea it's a good bang for the buck..:up:

[bigjon]

bump..................

[Zack]

Make sure you buy a 3500 stall. The driveability is no different, but the get up and go is way better!

[stevengerard]

Make sure you buy a 3500 stall. The driveability is no different, but the get up and go is way better!


I have a 3500 and its great, though I know my mpg went down. Have no idea if my 1/4 went down.

[Tallboy]

Having driven and worked on a bunch of different MMs with various mods, I can tell you this: If it's the performance increase you're after, the stallion is worth every nickel, IMHO.

However, anyone who says the "driveability" is unchanged from stock, is lying.

Your call.

[stevengerard]

I wouldn't say "lying" but it wasn't that much of a difference, could I tell? oh yeah but its not as big of a change as it was on my TH400 backed 455.

I have a friend who owns a vette and said everyone was telling him the PI would negatively effect the around-town drivability, after driving mine he went out and bought one. - the PI that is.

[Blackened300a]

However, anyone who says the "driveability" is unchanged from stock, is lying.
Explain please.

[Tallboy]

I wouldn't say "lying" but it wasn't that much of a difference, could I tell? oh yeah but its not as big of a change as it was on my TH400 backed 455.

I have a friend who owns a vette and said everyone was telling him the PI would negatively effect the around-town drivability, after driving mine he went out and bought one. - the PI that is.I didn't say you were lying. I said if anyone said it's unchanged from stock. Whether or not the driveability is acceptable is in the eye of the beer-holder:) . I do not know anyone who has a stallion and doesn't love it!

[Tallboy]

Explain please.Kinda tough to do on the internet, but I'll try. When you go to a higher stall spped converter, and you're driving at lower "around town" speeds, it feels more like a "race car" in relation to engine rpm/shifting. You will definetly notice the difference, but it's a difference many people like/desire. I suggest you drive a similarly equipped car before making your purchase. Another good idea would be to talk to a vendor, Greg from F.I.T. comes to mind, and bounce some ideas/questions off him. Zack's advice on the 3500 stall speed is also sound. If lower ETs are your goal, this mod is hard to beat, dollar-wise.

[CRUZTAKER]

I can't explain how it works...but the PI S-3000 made one of the most radical changes in my cars behavior.

I am used to now, but that first week...oh my god, if I crushed it, it spun some 200 feet down the road and scared the crap out of me.

Drivability? Fine. You get used to it in a few days. And, you can fuss with lockups in tuning until you get it the way you want it.

By far my favorite mod, hands down.

[Tallboy]

the PI S-3000 made one of the most radical changes in my cars behavior.

I am used to now, but that first week...oh my god, if I crushed it, it spun some 200 feet down the road and scared the crap out of me.

Drivability? Fine. You get used to it in a few days. And, you can fuss with lockups in tuning until you get it the way you want it.

By far my favorite mod, hands down.
A perfect explanation and universal repsonse from everyone I know who has one. Thanks, Cruz!:beer:

[sailsmen]

I have 25K on mine and love it. There is occasionaly a less than smooth shift.

If I wanted a smooth car I would have bought my Grandmothers Caddy!

Zack is right no difference in the 3,000 vs 3,500 stall, except with the 3,500 you will have a serious traction problem!

[valleyman]

I have about 12k on mine and my MM is a daily driver, most of it around town. I love mine. Like others said, it takes about a day or so to get used to it. How does it change the driveability? Well, if you're used to driving with a beverage between your legs the stock shifts won't get any on ya'. With the Stallion the 1-2 shift will slop whatever is in your can (or glass) all over your lap and up to your breastbone if you keep your foot in the throttle. And it WILL snap yor head back onto the headrest if you keep your foot in it. :burnout:

[maraudernkc]

Zack, is right. I have have had both.


Make sure you buy a 3500 stall. The driveability is no different, but the get up and go is way better!

[TooManyFords]

I agree with everyone here. I got the 3500 and these rear tires are not long for this world... Just make sure you find a competent install shop who isn't afraid of a little rubber mallet to tap it on. The go on tight!

Cheers!

John

[BillyGman]

I went with the Stallion converter which was before I ever thought that I'd end up supercharging the car. If you ever go with the Trilogy supercharger, you won't need anything but the stock torque converter with the stock stall speed, however, if you go with a centrifugal supercharger, then you're going to need the 3,500 stall speed. So just keep that in mind.


You might also want to keep in mind that most experts will tell you that the higher that you go with the stall speed, the harder it is on your transmission because of the potential heat it can create. It's very likely that someone will have a problem with these things that I'm stating in this post, and will jump back in here to debate this, but I have no intention of debating it. It just isn't worth it, so if that happens, just send me a PM and I can tell you something more specific about this. I chose a 3,000 RPM stall speed, which I haven't had any problems with, and my transmission is still bone stock, and has 31,000 miles on it. When my car was N/A, the Stallion converter gave me a .70 second reduction in my quartermile ET's. Not bad for a $800 investment.

[ckadiddle]

I can't explain how it works...but the PI S-3000 made one of the most radical changes in my cars behavior.

I am used to now, but that first week...oh my god, if I crushed it, it spun some 200 feet down the road and scared the crap out of me.

Drivability? Fine. You get used to it in a few days. And, you can fuss with lockups in tuning until you get it the way you want it.

By far my favorite mod, hands down.
Hmmmm.... I better start saving up for one of those...

[duhtroll]

I'm reviving this thread to ask a question -

The 3000 vs. 3500 - I have heard many tell that the 3000 is a waste of time and I should go with the 3500.

Will this not do the following:

1) Burn more gas (can deal with this)
2) Be more jumpy in around-town driving (maybe can deal with this in tuning)
3) Increase tranny temps more than I want?

My mods are modest - 4.10s, tune, exhaust, stat/plugs and now I am wanting the Stallion. I am torn between the 3000 and 3500. I will not be S/C this car until the stock engine is shot, and then it will be a rebuild. (This is my daily driver and I will continue to use it as such for the near future - when I get a new DD I will turn this into a project car)

I do NOT want to burn the tranny up with this mod, and I know the 3000 has been listed as "safe" by the leading folks on this board.

Can I be just as safe with the 3500? In other words, wisdom way back when announced that 2800 was the limit before you got into temp problems. Then it was discovered that 3000 was not producing higher temps people thought it would.

Have we now progressed to the point where we have learned the 3500 is not causing problems with temps?

Thanks!
-A

[juno]

If you are concerned about the temps, a tranny cooler is an inexpensive mod well worth the peace of mind. The install is not technicallly difficult, though a little bit of a PITA.
My cooler and new pan went in last weekend. My PI 3000 stall heavy stator is going in today. :banana: :banana: :banana:

Edit- Note: I ordered it for a 3000 rpm stall at 450+ rwhp, hence the heavier stator.

[Todd]

I'm reviving this thread to ask a question -

The 3000 vs. 3500 - I have heard many tell that the 3000 is a waste of time and I should go with the 3500.

Will this not do the following:

1) Burn more gas (can deal with this)
2) Be more jumpy in around-town driving (maybe can deal with this in tuning)
3) Increase tranny temps more than I want?

My mods are modest - 4.10s, tune, exhaust, stat/plugs and now I am wanting the Stallion. I am torn between the 3000 and 3500. I will not be S/C this car until the stock engine is shot, and then it will be a rebuild. (This is my daily driver and I will continue to use it as such for the near future - when I get a new DD I will turn this into a project car)

I do NOT want to burn the tranny up with this mod, and I know the 3000 has been listed as "safe" by the leading folks on this board.

Can I be just as safe with the 3500? In other words, wisdom way back when announced that 2800 was the limit before you got into temp problems. Then it was discovered that 3000 was not producing higher temps people thought it would.

Have we now progressed to the point where we have learned the 3500 is not causing problems with temps?

Thanks!
-A


I can tell you from experience that there isnt much of a difference between the 3000 and 3500 as far as driveability is concerned.

I have a 3000 PI from my car when I first bought it. I ran that for the first 8+months. Having never driven a car with a stall converter higher than stockers I found it a good upgrade.

I ended up buying another converter from PI. This time one with some special upgrades due to my turbo charger and the torque it makes. I didnt notice much of a difference at all between the 3k and 3.5k as far as gar mileage OR in-town driving.

I did however notice slightly higher tranny temps. But not by much. About a 20 degree increase.


I actually sent my 3500 back to lower the stall to bring in more load for the turbo spool to come in harder. I just got it back so I have yet to drive it with the newest stall.


I do have my original 3000 stall for sale if anyone is interested. Just pm me.

[sabtaj1]

Todd I want you TC. PM sent

[TooManyFords]

Andrew, my car should be done by this weekend. I'll let you drive it with the 3500 TC and you can see for yourself.

Cheers

John

[duhtroll]

Awesome - gimme a call when it's done.

When does our track open again? Prolly the weekend I'm in Canada.

[salter]

I have installed PI TC's in 4 cars, #1 94 Impala SS supercharged, #2 87 Vette w 383 stroker, #4 99 Ram Air WS6 Trans Am, # 5 03 Marauder..Other than gears it is the best mod you can do for increased performance BAR NONE!!!! PERIOD!!!! Even if you keep stock gears.. PI make the smallest and best TC available..there are cheaper ones out there but I wouldnt use anything but a PI.

[duhtroll]

I'm sold on the PI - all I need is:

Will the 3500 stall give me a problem with tranny temps?

I can live with the "driveability" changes. I just need to know I'm not gonna fry anything!

-A

[Leadfoot281]

TC stall speeds will vary. The same converter in a heavy car is going to stall at a different speed as it will in a light car.

Also torque will affect stall speeds. That's why a stock converter would be fine in a Trilogy car. The TC should be matched to your opperating RPM/powerband/gears.

My stock TC is annoying enough IMO. But it also happens to be perfect for my stock Marauders total lack of low end torque. If I found myself with a ton of low end torque, I'd get 4:10's and call it good. With higher RPM HP, I'd go with a 3500 RPM stall, 4:10- 4:56's and deal with the milage.

[Todd]

I'm sold on the PI - all I need is:

Will the 3500 stall give me a problem with tranny temps?

I can live with the "driveability" changes. I just need to know I'm not gonna fry anything!

-A


I have Dennis Reinharts tranny cooler which is a big unit. I believe it is for RV's originally. But my temps with the 3500 stall only got up to about 150 degrees from an in pan pickup. With the 3000 stall the highest I ever saw it was about 130.

Now I never ran my car at the track. The previous owner said on the track he saw the 3000 converter hit 150. Which is 20 higher than I ever saw.

But with a decent cooler you should have NO problems!!! I would definitely run a aftermarket cooler with a higher stall. Especially a 3500+.



Just as a side note..... PI will do one free stall change with your converter. All you have to do is send it back. When they get it they will ask you a number of questions to determine what changes they need to make. Including vehicle weight, hp and torque expectations, rpm you shift at, and some other stuff.

[GA-Marauder]

I'm reviving this thread to ask a question -

The 3000 vs. 3500 - I have heard many tell that the 3000 is a waste of time and I should go with the 3500.

Will this not do the following:

1) Burn more gas (can deal with this)
2) Be more jumpy in around-town driving (maybe can deal with this in tuning)
3) Increase tranny temps more than I want?

My mods are modest - 4.10s, tune, exhaust, stat/plugs and now I am wanting the Stallion. I am torn between the 3000 and 3500. I will not be S/C this car until the stock engine is shot, and then it will be a rebuild. (This is my daily driver and I will continue to use it as such for the near future - when I get a new DD I will turn this into a project car)

I do NOT want to burn the tranny up with this mod, and I know the 3000 has been listed as "safe" by the leading folks on this board.

Can I be just as safe with the 3500? In other words, wisdom way back when announced that 2800 was the limit before you got into temp problems. Then it was discovered that 3000 was not producing higher temps people thought it would.

Have we now progressed to the point where we have learned the 3500 is not causing problems with temps?

Thanks!
-A

I have the 3000, and can say without a doubt it was not a waste of money, and was the single best mod I have done yet. I believe the .7 sec reduction in 1/4 et is a very good investment. Good luck.:beer:

[sabtaj1]

well thanks guys. you sold me on buying a stall. GETTER-DONE!!!!!

[Blackened300a]

Great, I knew all along I wanted a T/C now Im dead set on picking one up.
The Question of going with a 3500 stall verses a 3000 stall hasnt been answered.
Some of you have knocked off .07 tenths from your 1/4 mile times with the 3000 stall.
Will the 3500 stall knock off more??
If Not, Whats the advantage by risking the tranny with the 3500 stall??

[duhtroll]

Exactly my question - I'll save a tenth if I don't have to worry about temp.


Great, I knew all along I wanted a T/C now Im dead set on picking one up.
The Question of going with a 3500 stall verses a 3000 stall hasnt been answered.
Some of you have knocked off .07 tenths from your 1.4 mile times with the 3000 stall.
Will the 3500 stall knock off more??
If Not, Whats the advantage by risking the tranny with the 3500 stall??

[MarauderMark]

WOW:baaa: Now is that the only thing you changed between runs, because if so it is a done deal.
I'm sorry i didnt answer sooner as i just saw your reply toady..Yes that was the only thing i did change and i got a whole second faster..:D

[mpearce]

If you guys read Zacks post, and read BillyGMans post, both of them suggest their opinion of which converter is best. What everyone has to do is decide where they want their own car to end up in time.

Are you getting a blower? Or staying N/A? If you get a blower, are you getting a Vortech, Procharger, or Trilogy, or a turbo? IMO, this power adder question is the most important. If you get a 3500 stall t/c for a N/A car, and it stays N/A than thats fine. A 3500 stall obviously works well with the Vortech, Procharger, Turbo folks. A 3500 with a Trilogy probably isn't the best idea.

Rear end gears also come into play here as well. Have you all changed to 4:10's, or 4:30's, or maybe 4:56's? All you need to do is look at Billy's burnout videos to see what a 3000 stall t/c with the Trilogy blower will do to a dead punch launch.

Then you have your "driveability" folks. Some people want their MM to feel like it did when it was stock off the showroom floor. Others want immediate jumpy power, with their engine in the higher revs right off the bat. It's all preference. IMO you can't reccommend a single stall universal t/c for everyone. Everyones opinions are different, everyones ideas of how they want their car is different. Just take some of these ideas into consideration before you chose your stall speed.

I will be getting the 9.5" stallion 3000 at the end of May. I am currently N/A and will remain so for the rest of this season. When the blower goes in sometime next year, more than likely, it'll be a roots blower...then the 3000 stall along with my 4.10's should be more than enough launching power at the track. The real test will be if my drag radials hook at the track. Hope this helps someone. When my 3000 goes in in May, I'll do pics, some video, and some before and after comparisons.

-Mat

[StevenJ]

Hmmmm.... I better start saving up for one of those...

The install is another $300 roughly and you have to have your car retuned or else the torque convertor won't lock up right.

[duhtroll]

My question is not about recommendations.

My question is about transmission temps primarily, but since we're on recommendations...

I have dug up my old dyno chart. The peak HP is at ~5200 RPM (260 at the wheels)

The peak torque is at ~4250 RPMs (280)

This does not count the DR exhaust system I put on as I have not dynoed the car since then. I am thinking I may tune the car again to get full effects out of the Stallion and the exhaust I did once I put the TC on.

However, from the chart I have it seems the TQ really begins to climb ~3300 RPM while the HP is very even increase from ~1600-5200.

Therefore, I am to conclude that a 3200 stall is ideal? 3000? 3500 seems a bit much given the power I have shown.

-A

[duhtroll]

Others have disagreed. Not flaming you, but I've been reading along and a few folks at least have not retuned anything and have had the TC work well. I'm looking at a tune anyway, but I'm not sure it's a must.


The install is another $300 roughly and you have to have your car retuned or else the torque convertor won't lock up right.

[mpearce]

Others have disagreed. Not flaming you, but I've been reading along and a few folks at least have not retuned anything and have had the TC work well. I'm looking at a tune anyway, but I'm not sure it's a must.

Talk to CRUZTAKER, he's N/A and has a 3000 stall t/c. He had to get things with his tune "tweaked" IIRC...so send him a PM. I have personally driven his car and it's quite aggressive. I like the way it drives around town, and I personally have made a run in his car...low 13.40's with my 285lb a$$. Pretty impressive to say the least.

-Mat

[BLMMCO]

ok guys....I also want to make the TC switch...my problem is I live in Colorado Springs ,Co. I haven't been able to find anyone here that I can take my MM in for a re-tune. I have talked to Lidio and he is unable to make up a tune also. Why?....elevation!!! 6500ft. Are there any high altitude marauder owners? :help: Seems like us high altitude guys are screwed when it comes to these mods.

[BillyGman]

When I got the Stallion converter for me Marauder (which was before I S/Ced it) I didn't have to get a new chip nor the chip I had re-burned for another tune.

[SergntMac]

Excellent post -Mat!

Just a reminder that PI make a "triple plate" version of the Stallion for the over 450+ RWHP club. I have one, and after three years of heavy abuse, and it's in fine shape. If you know for sure you're going to remain N/A, it's overkill. But, we're now seeing the HP/TQ benchmark being pushed over the 500+ line, and IMHO, a single plate will have some longevity issues that kind of power.

[MarauderMark]

Excellent post -Mat!

Just a reminder that PI make a "triple plate" version of the Stallion for the over 450+ RWHP club. I have one, and after three years of heavy abuse, and it's in fine shape. If you know for sure you're going to remain N/A, it's overkill. But, we're now seeing the HP/TQ benchmark being pushed over the 500+ line, and IMHO, a single plate will have some longevity issues that kind of power.
Great! More money to spend..:( :D

[Marauder.45]

Great thread guys,

I am on the same track, and was going to post a question that was hopefully going to get these responses.

I still didn't see the differences between 3000, 3200, and 3500.

I have K&N CAI, Full kooks 2.5, 4.10s, Metcos, and ADDCOs. I'd like to go S/C one day, but with the way Wifey is talking, that may be at least a full season, maybe 2. And if I do go S/C, I'd go DR Vortech, because he has earned my business.

I also didn't see a MPG difference listed. Any response on that?

My mechanic leans to the 3200, any reasons to talk him out of it?

[BillyGman]

My mechanic leans to the 3200, any reasons to talk him out of it? The more stall speed, the more potential for your transmission to get hotter. A good aftermarket trans fluid cooler is probably a good idea with stall speeds over 3,000.

I bought my Stallion converter directly from Precision Industries (the manufacture). At the time their tech guy told me that they didn't recommend going over 3,000 RPM's with the stall speed for street driven Marauders, so 3,000 is what I went with, and have had it there for a couple years now. However, since then someone has swayed them to change their practice of giving that advice to their Marauder customers ( I'll leave it at that).

Oh, BTW, if you plan on a centrifugal S/Cer some day like you've stated, then a 3,500 RPM stall speed is probably better. It seems like most of the centrifugal guys are choosing that lately for their Marauders. Since I have a roots S/Cer on my Marauder, the 3,000 RPM stall speed that I have is just fine, and might even be a little more than needed. But I've left it the way it is because the car takes off just fine and the driveability hasn't been effected even for daily driving to work and back.

[Marauder.45]

I bought my Stallion converter directly from Precision Industries (the manufacture). At the time their tech guy told me that they didn't recommend going over 3,000 RPM's with the stall speed for street driven Marauders, so 3,000 is what I went with, and have had it there for a couple years now. However, since then someone has swayed them to change their practice of giving that advice to their Marauder customers ( I'll leave it at that).

Oh, BTW, if you plan on a centrifugal S/Cer some day like you've stated, then a 3,500 RPM stall speed is probably better. It seems like most of the centrifugal guys are choosing that lately for their Marauders..

So, PI has changed their tune as far as recommended. 3500 is good to go now.

Let me see if my thinking is correct. If staying NA, 3500 is good to go. If going centrifugal, 3500 is good to go. Good for either. But a tranny cooler is a safe play.

If 3000, roots is better. No cooler needed.

No drivability difference noticeable between the 2. No real difference in 1/4 mile time.

[duhtroll]

I went with 3200 and I am staying NA. Also am putting on a trany cooler while I'm at it. It will be safer all the way around, and I'll still see the gains in ET.

-A


Great thread guys,

I am on the same track, and was going to post a question that was hopefully going to get these responses.

I still didn't see the differences between 3000, 3200, and 3500.

I have K&N CAI, Full kooks 2.5, 4.10s, Metcos, and ADDCOs. I'd like to go S/C one day, but with the way Wifey is talking, that may be at least a full season, maybe 2. And if I do go S/C, I'd go DR Vortech, because he has earned my business.

I also didn't see a MPG difference listed. Any response on that?

My mechanic leans to the 3200, any reasons to talk him out of it?

[Mike M]

I went with the 3500 and yes it made a big change!
The car is instantly into the powerband of the engine...it wakes it up!
It is probably the best bang for the buck!

[Marauder.45]

Is there a MPG difference?
Any Stats?

This is a for a Daily Driver, that I want to get in the 13s.:banana2:

[duhtroll]

There could be a drop in MPG, yes.

That is exactly what I am doing - getting a daily driver into the 13s



Is there a MPG difference?
Any Stats?

This is a for a Daily Driver, that I want to get in the 13s.:banana2:

[SergntMac]

Between the increase in torque multiplication, and the reduction of parasitic drag in the powertrain, logic says you should see gains in MPG.

Logic also says "no way,dude", because you won't keep your foot out of it.

[duhtroll]

That's kinda what I meant, although I did not know why. I just knew my in town MPG was going to suffer. :)


Between the increase in torque multiplication, and the reduction of parasitic drag in the powertrain, logic says you should see gains in MPG.

Logic also says "no way,dude", because you won't keep your foot out of it.

[shakes_26]

My Stallion 3K is up for sale, it has about 8K miles on it. Perfect condition, check the classy-fieds.

[Blackened300a]

My Stallion 3K is up for sale, it has about 8K miles on it. Perfect condition, check the classy-fieds.

Im in Talks with you about taking this off your hands

[BillyGman]

When I purchased the stallion converter, the car was still N/A and with that, 4.56 gears, and Kooks long tube headers, the car ran consistently in the 13's. In fact I also ran five 13.5 ET's with it in the cold weather one day. With 4.10 gears, headers, aftermarket hi-flow cats, and atleast a 3,000 RPM stall speed, you should be well into the 13's no problem.