Beat by an SS

[Mrotterkila]

How many of you guys have raced against an Impala? Just to inform you I have raced 3 marauders and not one of them has beaten my SS, I have just under 300 hp, and 3:73 gears. Stock for stock it is very close, SS will beat a Marauder off the line up to about 60mph. After that the marauder will inch ahead for a little while, but eventually the SS will pass the marauder and keep on going. A stock SS will go about 160mph!! The only MOD that an SS really needs to beat a Marauder is gears!!! The maurader has a better ratio for racing than the SS, however throwing 3:73's into an SS will surely increase the ammount of rear bumper the Marauder Driver will be seeing!

Another point I should make about the SS is its LT-1 engine! This engine is much more upgradeable than the 4.6's in the marauders. A quick cam swap and some good exhaust mods the SS is over 300 horse, Spend another 6,000 on a ATI supercharger and some heads and you have a 11 second car, take the extra step throw in a small shot of Nitrous and you have a 1,300 hp 10 second SS!!!

[Menace]

But its still not a Marauder. The new king of the road.

[MMM2003]

Nice comeback "Menace" !

[sailsmen]

Curious about your SS. What year and VIN?

[gja]

Gears,chip,plugs and thermostat and the Merc is up your butt like a proctologist that just went postal....
And as far as 160, if you are nuts enough to race that high on the street you are a fool.
I have run several SS and many other cars. Some trounced me, most lost. Some lost by hairs, some needed binoculars to see my rear end.
Point is you have a car that is at LEAST 7 years old. I wanted a new car and after being a Chevy man for 20 + years they lost a customer.
They are building nothing I want, thank-you-very-much.

Most of the SSs' I have run I do have proof of stock/mod status. But I am bone stock and have beat my share.

I got beat by some cars that cost 50-100% more than mine, and could care less as you SHOULD get that level of performance when you come accross with that kind of cabbage.

So don't be surprised if some Merc start runnig past you in a big way.
Mine will, and more will as time goes on.
BTW, they get faster as the 4.6 breaks in and loosens up, so those guys you beat slowly at first will be a fond memory.

Oh, and the 160 MPH...well thats not valid, because a Marauder is limited by the factory computer to about 120something.
So if you want to be fair, lift your foot at 120 or only run against a chipped MM.

[WolfeBros]

Interesting.......most of the guys that come in here from the SS boards are pretty decent guys and seem to respect what we drive as well as their own ride. I guess he hasn't heard that we don't feed trolls here. :flamer:

[Mrotterkila]

Thats the thing!! I dont need a chip to do 160!! My car didnt come with a Governor! If I do the same mods to my car that you do to yours!! You wont be beating me!! I doubt very much your car will "trounce" mine, especially if it is stock!! The only thing that you guys have on the SS is gears!! I know of all kinds of conflicting reports of stock vs stock SS's and Marauders but every time I have raced one I have won!! And the thing about the gears, chip, and plugs, I doubt very much that the merc would be much faster with those mods (THAT I ALREADY HAVE!!!!) besides the chip which I dont need !!

[gja]

Well, the governor would be on an SS if it was made TODAY. Then you WOULD need the chip, just like us.
The c.a.f.e. laws and insurance rates made it a must so FoMoCo could get the car made without being stuffed into a penalty group for guzzlers and speeders. So that was actually a good move as it is an 'electronic' governor which is easily removed w/o mechanics.

Come to Long Island or wait for the ATCO Pennsylvania meets in the summer. I plan on attending and will 'put-up-or-shut-up'. End of story, my guess is I will cause a lot of hurt feelings on some SS owners that can prove they have no more done to their car than I do. SSs' were not that fast, either on paper or on the road. They are wonderful cars, but are not 'race-ready', friend.

[sailsmen]

SS is a nice car, whats your year and VIN?

I seriously looked at buying one new. Drove one and I was very impressed with the engine and straight line performance. My brother in law owned one and I always admire it.

My concern was the handling and long term how the chassis would hold up. I spoke with a few Police Officers who said compared to the Crown Vic the chassis flexed a lot and got real mushy after 50k miles.

I also owned a '97 Grand Marquis that flexed alot. The new Panther Platform is a dramatice improvement, you would never know it's the same car. I suggest you drive one. With the exception of the slow off the line acceleration you will be impressed with how the car drives, straight and around the turns!

[LincMercLover]

Originally posted by Mrotterkila
The maurader has a better ratio for racing than the SS, however throwing 3:73's into an SS will surely increase the ammount of rear bumper the Marauder Driver will be seeing!

Throw 4:10's in a MM and you're back where we started...

Your SS is running on old OBDII technology. So computer controlled governors were no existant. We still have OBDII ports, but with a PCM and ECC that control/monitor ALOT more. That, mated with CAFE laws restrict the car to 120 for $$$ reasons. I have reason to believe a MM will do 160 with your SS partner, that is if you find another person stupid enouph to go that high...

Let me heath a little warning to you. I would read over the Term/Conditions of this site. You've posted 4 times, all 4 posts "bashing" the MM. You're intitled to what you say is "truth," but tread lightly my friend. Not only will you have MM owners, but you'll also have SS owners on your ass for being one. CONTRIBUTE to the site, your account will remain. You're under CLOSE watch right now. Just fair warning...

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Mrotterkila
You wont be beating me!! I doubt very much your car will "trounce" mine, especially if it is stock!!


And this will, in some way, result in some sort of deeper meaning to your life? Have you looked around you lately and seen what the world is like? Why would not being 'trounced' guarantee anyone some sort of immortality or amnesty from all of life's ugly little surprises?

Time to peek out from the drug haze and have a reality check: cars are just a fun hobby. There's always someone faster than you, just depends on how much money you want to spend.

[gja]

Hey Triple,
An old friend of mine has a WS6, what a great car...and nice to look at too
They stopped making them WAY too soon.
I really loved the Blackbird edition, but was just too expensive at the time for me.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by LincMercLover

Your SS is running on old OBDII technology. So computer controlled governors were no existant. We still have OBDII ports, but with a PCM and ECC that control/monitor ALOT more. That, mated with CAFE laws restrict the car to 120 for $$$ reasons. I have reason to believe a MM will do 160 with your SS partner, that is if you find another person stupid enouph to go that high...


I've got to disagree on a few points.

The Impala SS ran on OBD-I for most of its life, as I believe GM only switched over to OBD-II starting in 1996. Nonetheless, not all OBD-II systems are functionally equivalent, as supposedly the LS1 OBD-II PCM is a behemoth compared to the LT1 OBD-II computer (something along the lines of 4Meg versus 512k or something similar).

As for speed limiters, they've been around for many years. The Grand Nationals were all limited to 124 mph or something like that, mostly due to aerodynamics. As for the MM's limits, didn't I read that this was because of some harmonics in the driveline at higher speeds? This makes sense since the MM sits at a slight rake with front lowered and rear raised... this is bound to result in an awkward pinion angle, which in a GM F-Body is guaranteed to result in driveline harmonics.

160 in a MM? Consider that the aerodynamic F-body w/ LS1 pulls 162mph (limited) and 175mph unlimited (witnessed in person at a gov't test track near here). My WS6 has dyno'ed 310 hp at the rear wheels when stock. Would the much heavier and less aerodynamic MM be able to pull 160 mph stock, w/o limiter? I doubt it. But I do believe 130-140 mph is attainable. And I strongly doubt the Impala will do any more (look at the power curves and gearing and you'll see why).

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by gja
Hey Triple,
An old friend of mine has a WS6, what a great car...and nice to look at too
They stopped making them WAY too soon.
I really loved the Blackbird edition, but was just too expensive at the time for me.


Thanks for the kind words. My WS6 (also black) was to be my winter car (to keep the GTA safely off the road during winters) but when I saw it being built (a benefit of living 30 minutes away from the plant as well as the ASC facility where the WS6s were converted), I couldn't bear to see it suffer.

As usual, GM stops making cars when it seems they finally get it right. Look at the Fiero. The Impala SS was finally equipped with a console shifter at the very end. The F-body was getting to be a very economical yet brutally powerful car. It would have been fun to have a little battle going on between Ford and Chevy in the large car market, especially in the muscle niche market. But alas, Chevy walked away. Right now there isn't a car in GM's lineup that gets me anywhere near somewhat excited, so it's 'no sale' for the General.

By the way, anyone else find these SS vs. MM debates a little tiresome? I mean, the SS has been gone for... 6 years or so? The MM is a brand new car. By the same token, should we be then comparing the MM with 1965 Pontiac 2+2s with 421 Tripower 4-speeds? If so, I think I should add that I think my buddy's 1969 427 Parisienne would kick major MM butt!

:rolleyes:

[LincMercLover]

I didn't know GM started OBDII in 1996, since OBDII was around since what, 1992? Still, like you said yourself, the integrity of the new and old OBDII systems has come a long way.

And yes, speed/rev limiters have been around for many of years. Hell, my 66 has one. Old "grate" on the top of the head weaved in with the rockers/springs. Isn't a new concept at all, no. But the means of doing it is.

I'd still have to say a MM could pull at least close to 160. Adjust the rear end height, have a suitable driveshaft, chip, etc... Retain those 3.55's. Hell, Sarge is "certified" for 120 I think it was at red line with OD off. Red line in that OD with a 3.55 and all that mentioned above, you'd be close I believe. Gotta remember, we have OHC motors, which absolutely sing at high RPM's, where as an old push rod motor gets crazy at those numbers.

[CRUZTAKER]

Originally posted by Mrotterkila
My car didnt come with a Governor!

I wish my STATE didn't come with a governer :stupid:


While rolling down a 4 lane thorofare;

The SS owner I met a few days back was near my age, 35-40, and a successfull bussiness man (aparently). We traded conversation while coasting at 2 mph taking up both lanes on a 2-laner while traffic went around us in the turning lane. No race here. We both paid compliments, and I offered him a run at the next light. He kindly declined and said he was turning into the next drive. I told him that I had been waiting for a REAL Impala to goof with.......He replied with, "I want to trade it in".
I holler from the passenger window as he turns off, "Get a Marauder!".
He grins, and no more needed to be said.

Tommorow at lunch, I find that beautifull impala, ...........and put a big 'ol POKE welcome card on the windshield!

:burnout: maybe next time, maybe next time a KID!

[WolfeBros]

If I recall we have had at least two believable posts on here of guys with chips getting past the 140 on the speedo. I believe one had the improved driveshaft and the other did not. I won't be trying it anytime soon but I definitely believe it is obtainable especially with the 3:55's. And we did see a picture of what the factory driveshaft will do to the tailshaft seal at those speeds.......ouch !!

[nomad]

Yup, it'll do 140.
Maybe even 152, if you believe your county deputies.
140 plus BEFORE it shifts into 4th.
Ummm, not me of course, but I do know it's been "certified" to 152.

[TAF]

I have seen "the dark side" of 140 several times...(4-5)

Yes, that is with chip, 4:10s and driveshaft...

Hop in, I know just the road to do it at...and as I've posted before...at 140, she is smooooooooth.

[sailsmen]

I remember reading in one of the major car mags that they tested a Police Interceptor CV with the standard 4.6 and the top speed was in the 130+mph range.

[WolfeBros]

AHA.............SO IT WAS YOU TWO !!!!!!!! :lol:

[sailsmen]

with the 4.10's do you hit redline in od before you hit 140?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
Isn't a new concept at all, no. But the means of doing it is.

Actually, same technique, or variations thereof. At the desired speed limit, the ECM/PCM/whatever will either cut spark (older systems, early 80s?) or cut fuel (late 80s?). Same with rev limiters... I believe all these limiters have been available since the first computer controlled hipo cars started showing up in the 80s. I'd like to know more about the 'grate' speed limiter, I'm only familiar with the tranny-governor types of early speed limiters.

As for the 160 top end, I have to admit I was referring to a bone-stock car, not a modded one. Even considering the 4.6l DOHC being a good top end motor, 4th is still an overdrive and torque is only multiplied by .7 or whatever the ratio is. And aero resistance increases at faster rates (square) once speeds get that high. I'll easily believe 140 or slightly higher, but I'm fairly certain it will take a chip to get more.

Regardless, it's a concept I don't like discussing. Topping out at 160 versus 140 just means you've got 20 mph more of kinetic energy to dissipate through your relatively soft mass of flesh should one suddenly come into contact with a stationary object like a wall or tree.

[TAF]

Just after...I don't hold for long. It's AMAZING how quickly she climbs from 100-130+...a little bit of plateau as you head into the "peg"...but, she still climbs.

My nerves usually get to me by then, and it's time to back her down.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by sailsmen
with the 4.10's do you hit redline in od before you hit 140?

When I calculated the road speed versus RPM, I thought it did.

[Marauderman]

Todd- I know what u mean--had my bone stock to 125 and felt the nerves tingling alittle--but --damn it was fun----

[sailsmen]

I have had cars with a rev limiter in the rotor cap that grounded out at redline.

The fastest I have been in a car for any length of time was 145 mph in a modified Porsche 928. The car felt fine but things were going by in a blurr. My judgement got the better part of me and I backed off. The area I live in is not suited to high speed driving.

[TAF]

"telephone poles start lookin like a picket fence"

Hey Tom!

[Marauderman]

Yeah--those cars do come up fast don't they

[vaderv]

To me much like the 97 SHO I had this car doesnt feel right until at least 80 mph. The SHO would go well into the mid 100s and this car still has plenty of room at 120 well at least it feels like she does. Damned limiters. ; )

[WolfeBros]

Originally posted by toddalanfisher
Hop in, I know just the road to do it at...and as I've posted before...at 140, she is smooooooooth.

I have two rules I never break......
# 1 I do not ride on the back of motorcycles.
#2 I do not ride in cars as a passenger at 140 MPH.

But thanks for the invite Todd. :D

[nomad]

Quote"The area I live in is not suited to high speed driving"
NO area is really suited to excessive speed.
My few trips into warp speed were on deserted roads with spotters placed 1 mile ahead and tailers behind.
The 152 run was on a closed airport runway.
BTW, the 152 was at 5700 RPM in 4th gear. [Ran out of road/nerve]

[TAF]

I didn't say you had to be a passenger, Wolfe...Hell, I'll throw you the keys!

couple people on here would be glad to verify that fact...

[WolfeBros]

As I suspected all along you are a generous man my friend. :bows:
Or heck just throw the keys to RF and we can watch and have a brew.......:beer:

[TAF]

I said YOU could have the keys....not HIM....you crazy??!!!

Listen, I don't think we should talk about this anymore. I've done it a few times, it's not very smart to do it, I was just replying to a post about whether it could do it, yada, yada,yada.

[LincMercLover]

ME FIRST ME FIRST! :D

Wise man Todd!

Sorry RF... :lol:

[WolfeBros]

I said you were generous.....not stupid !! :lol:

Sorry RF.....you werent here to defend yourself. :D

[sailsmen]

There is a story behind that 928. The first one was originally from Puerto Rico. Bought in NYC and drove it back. A contractor tore up a concrete drive way on a commerical street and dumped it in the street to pour the new driveway. Well on a dark/rainy nite the 928 went over all that concrete, turns out so did a lot of other cars that nite. Fortunately the damage was only cosmetic.

The dealer was pushing for a total because he figured he would get a sale on another one since they were slow to move. The insurance adjuster got scared because the parts are incredibly expensive on that car and went along with the total.

A local well known Porsche tuner sold his black market European 928. He got it in by having the underhood decals printed up and pasted them under the hood with a letter on Porsche letter head that the car was US legal. He gave me a ride after dropping the car off at his shop and I noticed we were being followed by two guys, they pulled along side and exchanged "terse pleasantries". He then tells me those are 2 under cover cops that keep tabs on him.

I had always heard rumors about him so this prompted me to make some enquiries. He was convicted for the illegal importation and beat trafficing in stolen car charges.

When the 928 got some miles on it and parts were looking real expensive it was traded for an interest in a wildcat well that hit paydirt called jackass field. The WSJ did an interest story on it as one of the last wildcat wells. Well it only hit paydirt for the operator who was described as "a good opreator but not sophisticated financially". Come to find out that means he is a crook.

Thats where I lost track of the car.

[mad man]

Lets all go to a track and see. I think everyone has cabbin fever. I know the impala guys around here want to race how about the next mm meeting in chicago is at union grove WI around may and the guys from WI or any ware else can join in:D :D Let the games begin

[BeaSStMaster]

Originally posted by sailsmen
SS is a nice car, whats your year and VIN?

My concern was the handling and long term how the chassis would hold up. I spoke with a few Police Officers who said compared to the Crown Vic the chassis flexed a lot and got real mushy after 50k miles.

I can only speak for mine, but it's held up very well. My 1996 Impala SS has 159,794 miles on it (today) and has carried me in style for 7 years (yesterday) as a daily driver and around the country. No drag racing or autocross, but I've experience 118 on 40 in Chesterfield Valley. (LML knows about what I speak)

;)

[LincMercLover]

Hehehe... :nono: :D

[MAD-3R]

He;;, I've bounced off my Govener 3 times now. Chip goes in this weekend

[MMM2003]

Mad Man -

More details please on the Meet in Union Groove, WI for us Cheeseheads please !

[Wags]

Just to clarify this, the '96 Impala does have a limiter. The fuel will shut off at about 5600, which is about 155 mph. The stock gears that came with it were 3.08's. The car will boogie up to 140 without any problems. With mine it was as follows: 80mph@2100, 100mph@3000, 125@4000, 140@5000. That's as fast as I ever had it. It was rock solid until getting over 125mph, then it was a little loose. Also, you can't compare 7yr. old technology to now. They are BOTH fine cars. Haven't we beat this subject to death already? People should have actual track results before saying "Mine is faster than yours". Also, while I'm ranting, I feel that a race is just that, a race at a drag strip. Not on the street from stoplight to stoplight, or on the highway where both cars are already moving, but a strip, with a tree, in a controlled setting.

Just my .02 OK, I'm done....

Wags

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Mrotterkila
How many of you guys have raced against an Impala? Just to inform you I have raced 3 marauders and not one of them has beaten my SS, I have just under 300 hp, and 3:73 gears. Stock for stock it is very close, SS will beat a Marauder off the line up to about 60mph. After that the marauder will inch ahead for a little while, but eventually the SS will pass the marauder and keep on going. A stock SS will go about 160mph!! The only MOD that an SS really needs to beat a Marauder is gears!!! The maurader has a better ratio for racing than the SS, however throwing 3:73's into an SS will surely increase the ammount of rear bumper the Marauder Driver will be seeing! Another point I should make about the SS is its LT-1 engine! This engine is much more upgradeable than the 4.6's in the marauders. A quick cam swap and some good exhaust mods the SS is over 300 horse, Spend another 6,000 on a ATI supercharger and some heads and you have a 11 second car, take the extra step throw in a small shot of Nitrous and you have a 1,300 hp 10 second SS!

Yo, guys...Hold on one moment, okay? I'd like to add something to this "discussion," as it seems to be.

Before I do, I have to say that this has been a great thread, lots of emotions, brainstorming, a dab of confession, and a lot of loyalty, all shared by MM owners and supporters. Bravo! An MM owner is not someone to take on, or, take lightly. We're not easy, or, casual, about our cars. I loved every post and I think it's a shame that this thread got burried in the "story" forum.

OTOH, I think that is exactly where Mrotterkila wanted to post, "off the beaten path." He baited us and we took his bait. What he didn't expect, is that our discussion would be more enjoyable to us as MM owners, than to him as a troll starting his troll s**t. That said...

Mrotterkila...blow it out your ass, eh? I wouldn't waste my time in a race against your sorry ss, because I know I will win. Pull up next to me at any stop light and I'll smile, wave, maybe acknowledge that we both love muscle cars, and calmly drive away. Race you? Nah...Not interested, because I know I need to defeat an ss as bad as I need to beat a CTA bus. And, so do you.

If Marauders and Impalas were people, you would be the overweight 50ish brush salesman with a bad rug, begging the 20ish pert and petite secretary to meet him for a cocktail after work. Problem is, this secretary isn't interested in any May/December affair. Got that? If you believe you have raced and beaten a MM, better go shave your knuckles, eh?

The only MMs you have "raced" are races in your own mind. Truth be known, it was probably just an MM owner who was trying to get into an upcomming turn lane, ASAP. Just one of us in a hurry, and you (again) plop yourself in our path, overaged and unruly bogart that you are. When getting through traffic is my real goal, only thing I can do about an old "whale" is to drop back and swing around your backside. That does not make it a race, or a win, k? You're were just in my way, and I have more important things to do with my life, than wonder if your ss has a center console or not. Your Impala ss was a slug from the first off the production line, but I do agree that it was the fastest and quickest of all slugs available, back then.

If I got stuff to do, places to get to, things to get done now, and you find me at a stop light, please do not think my urgency to change lanes is an invitation to race. Please be polite and let me get over to the left, or, right, which ever it may be, and let me get to my business?

BTW, your "whale" emits an obnoxious odor under WOT, and some blue smoke as well. Please try to make my journey around your backside as least insulting as possible. And for gawd sake, please give up your pursuit of the "old town whore" role, your blue hair, arthritic joints, and stale breath do not show honor and respect ot this classic muscle car. Your ss is old, worn, tired and...done. It was never well planned from the jump, and (as it has been noted here) only got better for it's own funeral.

Get with the new age in automotive performance, pal, or be content to live inside the illusion you have painted for yourself. Your choice, ether way, just stay out of my turn lane, k?

ss beats an MM...Jeeze, go figure...

The 10W30 Geritol must really ****** the owner's brain, eh?

[beemer]

One word for Sarge's post: WOW :cool:

Best,

Paul:D

[TAF]

Sarge....

I'll drink to that!

:beer:

[Slowpoke]

sarge took the words right out of my mouth...

[WolfeBros]

:bows:

[Bigdogjim]

Sarge I was just thinking the same thing? :lol:
Ps: Nice write! Your a pro! :beer:
Big Dog

[BigMerc]

He needs to change his name to SUSAN after the smacking he just got from sarge

[LincMercLover]

***Screetch... CRASH! BOOM! (Just like in Directedby's movie)***

And I think we're done here.

[Logan]

ENOUGH. Move on. I already addressed this once HERE (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2038).

That being said, subsequent posts from mrotterkila have resulted in the account being deactivated.

Anyone has an issue, PM or email me.