Engine died while doing 65mph

[Mongoose]

The first time this happened was about a week ago. I thought the engine had died because the check engine light came on for a split second along with the red passive alarm indicator but strangely enough the engine started running again with me doing nothing. It happened so quick, I didn't have time to assess the situation. At the time, I thought I had lost electrical power to the motor. :confused:

Tonite while cruising on the interstate, it happened again but this time the engine did not resume running. I managed to get stopped in the emergency lane, put it in park, turned the key off and then restarted the engine. When traffic cleared I stomped on it WOT to 85 without a hint of a problem. A few miles down the road after slowing to 65, I felt the car lunging slightly. A few seconds later, the engine died again. This time I threw it in neutral and restarted. :confused:

When I got off the interstate I stopped and took a peek under the hood but didn't see anything obvious like a loose MAF connector. It should be noted that I filled the gas tank this AM and the car sat until 6pm.

Possible causes? :banghead:
A)Bad fuel
B)Plugged fuel filter
C)Fuel pump failing
D)Fuel pressure regulator
E)Other
Anybody else experienced this one?

[hitchhiker]

Check your wiring harness near the wiper motor area on the driver's side firewall.

Early MM's had some chafing of the wiring harness there causing engine and transmision problems.

The routing of the wiring harness was refined later in production.

Regards,

David

[MM2004]

Charlie,

Did your beast idle OK?

I had a similar experience years ago that ended up being a fuel pump.

Couldn't keep up with the gas demands at hight speeds.

If you ever have problems getting to the plant, call me.

Mike,


The first time this happened was about a week ago. I thought the engine had died because the check engine light came on for a split second along with the red passive alarm indicator but strangely enough the engine started running again with me doing nothing. It happened so quick, I didn't have time to assess the situation. At the time, I thought I had lost electrical power to the motor. :confused:

Tonite while cruising on the interstate, it happened again but this time the engine did not resume running. I managed to get stopped in the emergency lane, put it in park, turned the key off and then restarted the engine. When traffic cleared I stomped on it WOT to 85 without a hint of a problem. A few miles down the road after slowing to 65, I felt the car lunging slightly. A few seconds later, the engine died again. This time I threw it in neutral and restarted. :confused:

When I got off the interstate I stopped and took a peek under the hood but didn't see anything obvious like a loose MAF connector. It should be noted that I filled the gas tank this AM and the car sat until 6pm.

Possible causes? :banghead:
A)Bad fuel
B)Plugged fuel filter
C)Fuel pump failing
D)Fuel pressure regulator
E)Other
Anybody else experienced this one?

[Mongoose]

Charlie,

Did your beast idle OK?

I had a similar experience years ago that ended up being a fuel pump.

Couldn't keep up with the gas demands at hight speeds.

If you ever have problems getting to the plant, call me.

Mike,
Thanks for the offer Mike
Idled OK @ 750rpm.
Pulling about 2000 rpm @ 65
I've got an extra capacity fuel filter on O'l Black so it shouldn't be starved I would think until WOT. I'm kind of leaning towards a problem with the fuel pressure sensor.
PS: Saw your better half at the plant tonite and said hi.

[MM2004]

Charlie,

Your situation sounds so much like what I experienced years ago it is frightening. I feel it is a fuel issue, IMHO. But wouldn't know where to start as todays engines are much more complex that my Windsor years ago.

After mine died, it would idle fine, rev up fine, and drive at high speeds without issue. Then it would die again, etc., etc. all the way from Louisville to Hilton Head. What a drive that was. :rolleyes:

Checked the fuel filter and was OK. Ended up replacing the fuel pump correcting the issue.

In your case, I hope it isn't that. Just sharing a story with you.

Keep us posted on your findings. Did you make it home OK?

Better half? I thought I was the better half. :)

Hmmm, . .

Mike.


Thanks for the offer Mike
Idled OK @ 750rpm.
Pulling about 2000 rpm @ 65
I've got an extra capacity fuel filter on O'l Black so it shouldn't be starved I would think until WOT. I'm kind of leaning towards a problem with the fuel pressure sensor.
PS: Saw your better half at the plant tonite and said hi.

[merc]

Thats funny that you started this tread. I was at Costco yesterday pumping gas and on my way out, a car at high speed crossed my path. I hit maximum brake and the engine stalled. It would not start, so I had to push the car out of the intersection. Once I was clear from traffic I attempted to start the car, but it didn’t start until the third attempt. I found this to to be very odd. Not exactly the problem you described , but some what similar.

[Big House]

Merc,


I have had this problem sort of also. When I start the Darkside up and put her in gear, the revs would drop and the engine would cut out. I put her in Park and try again and she fires right up. Has anyone else seen or had this happen?

House

[Mongoose]

After talking to a couple of local wrenches, another possibility could be the cam position sensor. On other vehicles it has taken about five stalls before the check engine light would stay on and a code could be downloaded. Anybody had any experience with that? And will one stall put a code in the ECM? :confused:

[jobrien8]

What turns on the "check engine" lite, is called a hard fault. This ends up in the "continuous" area when they detect the fault. In most instances this is a hardware failure (ie. EGR, ECT, etc..). If you have access to a Star II tester, you can find out what the problem is. If you don't have a "check engine" indication, the codes in either the "KOEO" or "KOER" diagnostics will help you with diagnosis. Have heard that Auto Zone will do this for free. Hope this is helpful.

[pantheroc]

I had a sensor go bad producing the same symptom, I think it may have been the cam shaft pos sensor.

The rpms and power would just drop and all of a sudden kick back in, with a hard kick recovery. (can't fully describe, felt like a real hard shift).

Anyhow, I'll try finding my repair paperwork to confirm the sensor.

The check engine light did NOT come on. Then I think it finally came on with a P0320.

Found the paperwork: They replaced the "Crank Position Sensor" 1W7Z 6C315 AB.
Here's a link:
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=1876

[Mongoose]

What turns on the "check engine" lite, is called a hard fault. This ends up in the "continuous" area when they detect the fault. In most instances this is a hardware failure (ie. EGR, ECT, etc..). If you have access to a Star II tester, you can find out what the problem is. If you don't have a "check engine" indication, the codes in either the "KOEO" or "KOER" diagnostics will help you with diagnosis. Have heard that Auto Zone will do this for free. Hope this is helpful.
I had heard that about Auto Zone but it was my understanding that they would only do it if the "check engine" light was on.

After my previous post, I did some more checking in the Helms Manual and agree with Pantheroc that the crank sensor could also be the problem. Hope to get it checked out this week.

I've driven about 250 miles since the last incident with no hint of a problem which again makes me now lean toward an intermittent sensor issue.

[DeadVic]

It could be a bad coil pack too. We had this problem with our Navigator and it took a couple months for the stealership to find it. same symptoms.

[grampaws]

Had GM stall several times for no apparent reason and restart

immediately after..found dirty battery terminals..No codes...
unlikely but worth inspection..

[Mongoose]

Monday I had a friend at Autozone read the codes. Had a P0457-gas cap loose or seal defective and a P0755-transmission solenoid B malfunction. I checked for loose external electrical connections on the transmission and found none. I did find the heated O2 sensor loose on the right side exhaust pipe and tightened it. Condition has occured several times since.

Today I purchased a Actron CP9145 Scanner and cleared the codes. I'll update again as soon as the condition re-occurs.

QUESTION: If the transmission solenoid malfunctions (by telling the transmission to shift to a lower gear at too high of a speed), could it cause the ECM to anticipate an over-rev condition and therefore shut the engine down? :confused:

[merc]

Monday I had a friend at Autozone read the codes. Had a P0457-gas cap loose or seal defective and a P0755-transmission solenoid B malfunction. I checked for loose external electrical connections on the transmission and found none. I did find the heated O2 sensor loose on the right side exhaust pipe and tightened it. Condition has occured several times since.

Today I purchased a Actron CP9145 Scanner and cleared the codes. I'll update again as soon as the condition re-occurs.

QUESTION: If the transmission solenoid malfunctions (by telling the transmission to shift to a lower gear at too high of a speed), could it cause the ECM to anticipate an over-rev condition and therefore shut the engine down? :confused:

Please let me know how the Actron CP9145 works, because I have this item on my short list. I was able to resolve my check engine light and stall by replacing the fuel filter.

[GodOSpeed]

I'd check your chip to see if it is all the way in. I had a simalar issue and found mine was loose. Throw a little strip of duct tape on her and you should be good. :up:

[Mongoose]

I'd check your chip to see if it is all the way in. I had a simalar issue and found mine was loose. Throw a little strip of duct tape on her and you should be good. :up:
Happened again tonite again on the interstate. Had the scanner plugged in but no code was recorded. :confused:
I was planning to check the chip installation like GodOSpeed recommended. Will do that in the AM and post an update. If the problem is not there, I guess the next thing to do is replace the crank position sensor, the cam position sensor, and then probably the fuel filter. Scanner did show all other operating parameters were OK as far as I could tell.

Merc, as far as I can tell, the scanner does exactly what it's designed to do.

[grampaws]

No codes would suggest fuel pump!...fuel pressure gage

might be in order..pump may be over heating and cutting out.
replacing relay and/or circuit breaker ...simply swapping relays
might help. mark original relay and see if new circuit develops a
fault..

[pantheroc]

Did your RPM gauge drop rapidly on the highway then spring back to life? The camshaft speed sensor did that to me. If not it could be one of the other items mentioned in this thread.

[David Morton]

If I had a nickel for every time I've been asked for the "easy fix" over the phone...

I don't remember ever reading a service manual that didn't tell you in the preliminary checks section to make sure you had a good battery and that all the wires, connections and grounds were in good condition. Too often I've seen techs just put the "code checker" on the car, find no codes and then just "ship it out" with a "no problem found" cop out. Sad to say it's the system that's a dinosaur of the forties, those Chilton time guides that pay x.x hours for replacing the water pump that makes for lazy minds when it comes to modern technology.

Check for the chafing harness hitchhiker mentioned. Mines a 2004 and it was stretched over the back corner of left side valve cover and was already showing signs of wear at 500 miles, I nipped that one in the bud with a heat shield sock. I'd do that first since it's a known problem. If that ain't it, look for bad grounds or wires.

I read here somewhere that the frame to chassis ground was left loose on some of these cars. Many times those bolts or nuts get torqued down at the factory and the ground works fine for a while, but it's just touching because the bolt was cross-threaded. I fixed an Astro van once that had 60,000 miles on it with no problems and it had a crossed-up harness ground that was three threads away from tight, the eyelet was just hanging on the threads. All of a sudden at 60k the transmission was in and out of gear and the radio was too! Intermittent and no codes found. I got a nasty look from the shop foreman for not "overhauling" the elecronic transmission. He might have been thinking the shop lost $1500 but I sleep good.

So check your grounds, all of them. It's time consuming but better than throwing parts at it. If you have a bad fuel pump, a pressure guage will show that. Cam and crank sensors set codes. But I haven't seen the computer yet that can tell it's grounds are bad.

[Mongoose]

Did your RPM gauge drop rapidly on the highway then spring back to life? The camshaft speed sensor did that to me. If not it could be one of the other items mentioned in this thread.
That's pretty close to what happened. The instrument panel lit up just like I had turned the key off. I've had several different scenarios happen. On one occasion the PAL blinked rapidly. On a couple of others the engine just died while idling in Park. Another time after accelerating from a stop, the green O/D lamp started flashing (O/D was not disabled) and wouldn't stop when I pushed the O/D button several times (no other symptoms and after I had already read the P0755 code). I stopped the car, turned the engine off and restarted normally to reset.

I've checked all the wiring harnesses and connectors under the hood but found no obvious problems. Will recheck them again.

Thanks for your input gang.

[grampaws]

David is right sometimes a thorough inspection can turn up a simple

fault..Electrical connections and grounds..under the car..rubbing wires
etc..As posted earlier simply cleaning battery terminals in a car can eleviate
many problems..many techs do frequently rely on code readers more
than the good old basics ..clean and tighten connections and coat them
to protect them from future corrosion...good point Dave..:beer:

[Mongoose]

I didn't have an opportunity to do any more extensive checking before going to work last nite. After leaving the house and driving about 20 miles, the gremlins paid another visit just as I got on the interstate. This time however 4 codes were flashed:
1) P0750 SHIFT SOLENOID A MALFUNCTION
2) P0755 SHIFT SOLENOID B MALFUNCTION
3) P0135 SENSOR HEATER CIRCUIT MALFUNCTION BANK 1 SENSOR 1
4) P0155 SENSOR HEATER CIRCUIT MALFUNCTION BANK 2 SENSOR 1

The PID data was frozen with the P0755 code.
TROUB CODE 0755
RPM 1816
COOLANT 190
LT FTRM1 -5.5
ST FTRM1 -4.7
LT FTRM2 -5.5
ST FTRM2 -3.9
MPH 59
FUEL PRESSURE 59psi
FUEL SYS 1 CLSD

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there hadn't been no rhyme or reason as to the conditions when the gremlins rear their little ugly heads. I know I've read somewhere that a chip problem can make a car do all kind of goofy things. That being the case, this morning I pulled the PCM, removed the SCT chip, lightly cleaned the contact surfaces with ScotchBrite, reinstalled chip this time with a piece of cardboard underneath for support and duct tape over the chip to stabilize. I also cleaned the battery terminals while I had them off. I've driven about 75 miles since under varying conditions including WOT but still haven't heard from the gremlins. :sweat:

[jfclancy]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there hadn't been no rhyme or reason as to the conditions when the gremlins rear their little ugly heads. I know I've read somewhere that a chip problem can make a car do all kind of goofy things. That being the case, this morning I pulled the PCM, removed the SCT chip, lightly cleaned the contact surfaces with ScotchBrite, reinstalled chip this time with a piece of cardboard underneath for support and duct tape over the chip to stabilize. I also cleaned the battery terminals while I had them off. I've driven about 75 miles since under varying conditions including WOT but still haven't heard from the gremlins. :sweat:[/QUOTE]

well hope it stays fixed... scotch brite seems a bit harsh to clean contacts a pencil eraser ar some contact cleaner may save some of the coating on the chip legs. also some duct tape has metal in the coating may cause a problem
well sounds like a good MacIver fix just throwing out a little hint from 40 years working on electronics. Hope you have whipped it into submisson.

Joe Clancy :beer: :beer:

[Mongoose]

well hope it stays fixed... scotch brite seems a bit harsh to clean contacts a pencil eraser ar some contact cleaner may save some of the coating on the chip legs. also some duct tape has metal in the coating may cause a problem
well sounds like a good MacIver fix just throwing out a little hint from 40 years working on electronics. Hope you have whipped it into submisson.

Joe Clancy :beer: :beer:
I just remembered where I read it. It was in the FAQ section under "How to install a chip". I used an very fine grade and lightly rubbed the contact surfaces 3-4 times. 142 miles and still no gremlins. Lookin' good! ;)

[Mongoose]

Over 500 miles since the chip contact surfaces cleaned and no problems experienced. In conclusion, if your MM starts doing goofy things and you have a chip, check it first. ;)