Lidio's 4.10 Alternative Auto Shifting Program.....

[Reaper948]

Something's up --

Well I had my Alternative Auto Tune program for 3.55s and 4.10s - I had to send my first Xcal2 back to Lidio bc it wasn't working. That turned out fine....

And the program for the 3.55s was sharp, faster, better, 120mph +....

SO i take my car to the dyno, Mike at Powerhouse automotive needs the Xcal2 to program my AF and what not... I tell him I want to retain my shifting points from Lidio's custom tune, and Everything else he can play with since the AF needs adjusting...... So I take the car out after everything's done.

(Hey alternative auto 4.10 guys out there! With Lidio's program are you punching it and smoking your tires? Because I'm definitely not.)

And the car just seems like it upshifts wayyyy to quickly and way to frequently in slow traffic. It performs pretty well under WOT, but regular drivability is completely different from the way it was when it was just Alternative Automotive's tune. Oh and the 3rd to 4th shift, its like 4th gear is completely powerless........ What do you guys think? How is Lidio's 4.10 program SUPPOSED to drive? *oh and the idle sometimes drops to 500 RPM**

[DEFYANT]

Sounds like your problem is with Mike, not Lidio. You let someone else mess with the tune and Lidio did something wrong???

Did I read this wrong?

[CRUZTAKER]

Powerhouse did my 4:10's as you well know. At the time, I was running a 3:55 program so everything was a mess. Dennis did my reprogram through the mail and all was well. To answer your question...NO...my car did not lay massive rubber at a dead punch. Gears and tune alone might break loose the rear occationally, but with nice treaded tires...less often. The upshifts are quicker driving slowly. Mine still does this to this day.

Lidio has since rewritten my entire program to accomodate many other changes I made, but the 4:10 gear part is pretty generic. Perhaps you need the files adjusted for shift points and pressures modified. The only trouble with this is that it is much more desireable to have Lid do this in person, with laptop in car, he at the drivers seat, and you in the passenger seat. It takes some fussing to get it just the way you like it in the end.

I think you should drive it a bit and get used to the new feeling. These changes ALWAYS take some getting used to. Afterall, you were very familiar with the way the car once behaved. This is a shocker to your senses....kinda like someone changing your favorite toilet paper. :P Good or bad, in the beginning,....work with it through the break in, and reaquaint your senses.

BTW: The sure bang break loose at every dead WOT....a 3000 stall converter. That's when things get really wierd, and a whole lot more reaquainting.

[CRUZTAKER]

Sounds like your problem is with Mike, not Lidio. You let someone else mess with the tune and Lidio did something wrong???

Did I read this wrong?
Mike is ok...albeit new with SCT tuning, he a Ford motorhead. He did work for me recommended by another vendor here.

An a/f tune does nothing to shift points and 4:10 programs.

[jstevens]

On light throttle, upshift to 2 happens quickly, 3 and 4 at 40mph.

On heavy throttle, it will not upshift to 2 until about 5-6000rpm.

No, it won't break'em loose very good so I will have to start investigating my
next mod.

[MarauderMark]

have Lid do this in person, with laptop in car, .
This is what i would say as well..

[MikesMerc]

On light throttle, upshift to 2 happens quickly, 3 and 4 at 40mph.

On heavy throttle, it will not upshift to 2 until about 5-6000rpm.


This is exactly what happens with 4.10 gears. Its normal.

[Reaper948]

Sounds like your problem is with Mike, not Lidio. You let someone else mess with the tune and Lidio did something wrong???

Did I read this wrong?

Dont get me wrong I wasn't blaming Lidio for anything -- I was just saying how I needed his original programming since it was lost.

[BillyGman]

Before my Marauder was supercharged, it never broke the tires loose from a mere dead punch of the gas pedal even with the 4.10's. That is until I got the 4.56's and the 3,000 RPM stall speed torque converter. So I agree with Cruztaker on that. With 4.10's and the factory stock stall speed on a N/A Marauder, you cannot expect to break the tires loose from a dead punch unless the tires are worn. With good rubber you won't do that on a consistent basis if at all (especially in the summer heat). Atleast not until you get the Precision Industries Stallion converter with the stall set at 3,000 RPM's. And with the higher stall speed along with the 4.10 gears the car should do that more frequently (although it wasn't frequent enough for me until I installed the 4.56's).

My only regret is that I even messed around with different gear ratios at all or with the higher stall speed, since I ended up supercharging the car. Had I known I was going to do that, I would've held off on the gear changes as well as the aftermarket torque converter. Atleast until I drove the car with the supercharger and 3.55 gears first. But sorry for getting off topic. It's just that for me, all of these things are kinda interrelated in a way. Your combination of mods are relavent in the longrun, and if at all possible, you should know where you're going with this mod thing, and in order to know that, you have to keep your expectations realistic.

At first, I didn't keep them realistic. I expected my Marauder to move so much better just with the gear change that it will feel completely different to drive on the street. But it just didn't. It was still sluggish off the line. But not anymore. In the high performance game, you only get what you pay for. Live and learn I guess. Please don't think that I'm being critical of you. I'm not. I'm merely trying to be of help by sharing with you what I learned from my Marauder modifications experience. Bottom line is these Marauders came with pretty small engines, and they're sluggish off the line.

If you want to "smoke the tires" from a dead punch as you've indicated, then you have to do something radical to the car. And let's face it, radical changes cost radical money. Nitrous oxide injection is the cheapest radical change you can make. however, there are negatives with that(such as having to fill that bottle all the time), just as there are trade-offs with everything.

[Reaper948]

Oh no, definitely not thinking you're being critical.

I just thought after I heard so many people say "WOW 4.10s are amazing" and learning about how dynotunes worked, I just expected a little more on the numbers sheet.

What I failed to mention, is how insanely quick my car is now :)........ I won't lie, I can def. hang with the germans (I already did before the 4.10s) and now in couple with the exhaust, not only does Louise Scream, she GOES....

I just have some gripes about how my car is acting - Guess I have to get used to it....

[Reaper948]

On light throttle, upshift to 2 happens quickly, 3 and 4 at 40mph.

On heavy throttle, it will not upshift to 2 until about 5-6000rpm.

No, it won't break'em loose very good so I will have to start investigating my
next mod.

But sometimes I just feel that when the car is in 2nd or 3rd gear, slowly cruising, the RPMs sit at 1100 and the car just completely seems like it's running on solar power... i dont know if anyone experienced that yet --

[BillyGman]

Oh no, definitely not thinking you're being critical.

I just thought after I heard so many people say "WOW 4.10s are amazing" and learning about how dynotunes worked, I just expected a little more on the numbers sheet.

...That's kinda why I went into all of that. I've always felt that many people here overemphasize the results from a 4.10 gear change. I've been there and done that, and i never thought it was anything to rave about. I'm not saying that it isn't a good bang for the buck, since it doesn't cost all that much to do a gear change anyway. But it just won't make your Marauder move off the line like a heavy car will with a bigger engine such as the old LT1 powered Impala SS cars do. For that kind of change, you need a power adder in yor Marauder (ie. Nitrous, S/Cer, Turbocharger).

However, keep in mind that while a gear change will add a little bit to the acceleration of a car, it doesn't do that by increasing power. It does that by allowing your engine to rev up faster in order to get it into it's higher power range. Therefore a gear change will not neccessarily change your dyno numbers anyway.

[Blackened300a]

I have to agree that the 4.10 gear change wasnt too exciting when I took the car out for the First time. No Tire Smoke from a Dead stop. My Tune Is from DR and He did a good Job keeping the the Shift Points with the 4.10's close to what they were with the factory program and 3.55's. However Lately I have Noticed that Its feeling like I installed a Manual Transmission and Im in too high a gear. Sometimes under Part throttle it feels like Im lugging and a little bit. As a goof I installed the Stock Program and with the 4.10's. It will throw 1st 2nd and 3rd in a matter of seconds under part throttle and really make the car lug considering I was in 3rd gear at 15mph! I have to call Dennis tomorrow and I shall keep you posted. Im Very sure its in the Tune that you are having your Shift issues

[CRUZTAKER]

.... I was just saying how I needed his original programming since it was lost.
What makes you think ANYTHING was LOST?

I tried to explain to you earlier that the program entry for a gear swap is just that...a simple entry change in one field. That's it...that's all it consists of.
If your speedo is correct...nothing changed regarding the gear choice field.

And to reiterate...gears don't make horsepower.

Do the pullies and such as I suggested. Then you will see more gain.

[Sully008]

I have the Alternative Auto tune w/4.10 gears and I can get the tires to break loose on a cool day. I don't think I could on a warm summer day. At first I thought there was something weird with the shifts compared to the 3.55 tune, so I sent Lidio back my Xcal and had it checked out. He reloaded the tunes and sent it back.

At part throttle, the car will shift quicker into second than before, same with the 2/3 shift. I've learned to adjust to this new shift program, and I'm not concerned anymore. I think that's the way it is supposed to be. With more throttle, the shifts firm up, and at WOT, the 1/2 shift will break the tires loose.

As for the next mods, probably the PI converter, pullies/intake spacer in that order. I unfortunately won't be S/C'd in the near future. So in the meantime, I'm going to maximize my N/A as much as I can, without breaking the bank.

[BillyGman]

I unfortunately won't be S/C'd in the near future. .LOL.....that's funny, becausae that's exactly what I once said about my Marauder. :)

[Sully008]

LOL.....that's funny, becausae that's exactly what I once said about my Marauder. :)
I know, I know, unfortunately, it's true. My next major purchase is a house. So right now I'm saving up for that down payment. No expensive go fast goodies for the Marauder just yet.:(

[BillyGman]

I know, I know, unfortunately, it's true. My next major purchase is a house. .:(Hey, that's good news Mike. And for more than one reason too, because being able to use the mortgage interest as a tax write-off has enabled me to get back tax returns every year that are sizeable enough to buy a lot of go-fast goodies for my Marauder (as well as some interesting firearms). :D When I was renting, I couldn't afford things like that.

[Glenn]

I have learned from this net and experience that the best combination with 4:10s are UDPs (first) and then the gears and PI 3000 TC. This combination made a huge difference in my MM and it seems to leap off the line for such a big car. I am still impressed with these mods. The TC is in my mind an absolutely necessary mod to complement the gears. The JLT has also helped and I have grown to really like the sound. The whole combination works very well together. In regards to shifting, my tunes with Jerry have made it very driveable in all conditions. It pulls hard in all gears.

Glenn

[Reaper948]

I figured the HP wouldn't change on the car, just the way the car revved up, I guess I was just expecting more from the dynotune --

I think the problem i have with this shifting is that it upshifts too soon... I'll be cruising at 30 mph in 3rd gear and a quarter throttle, you all know how that could be.....It doesn't feel like it's in the best of shifting there. Everything else is great though, now that the revvs are up, the exhaust gets louder quicker :) and I'm not even going to tell you how crazy it is for a kid my age. Cruz and Billy know.


Pulleys are next.

[Svashtar]

LOL.....that's funny, because that's exactly what I once said about my Marauder. :)
Believe me Billy, I have spent way more than the cost of an S/C on my car, and if I could legally have one on in this State it would be there. I would settle for an exhaust upgrade as well, but that's not legal either. Going to have to wait until the next minute after I move out of the PRK, and then I will have it on as fast as I can write the check!

[Lidio]

Something's up --

Well I had my Alternative Auto Tune program for 3.55s and 4.10s - I had to send my first Xcal2 back to Lidio bc it wasn't working. That turned out fine....

And the program for the 3.55s was sharp, faster, better, 120mph +....

SO i take my car to the dyno, Mike at Powerhouse automotive needs the Xcal2 to program my AF and what not... I tell him I want to retain my shifting points from Lidio's custom tune, and Everything else he can play with since the AF needs adjusting...... So I take the car out after everything's done.

(Hey alternative auto 4.10 guys out there! With Lidio's program are you punching it and smoking your tires? Because I'm definitely not.)

And the car just seems like it upshifts wayyyy to quickly and way to frequently in slow traffic. It performs pretty well under WOT, but regular drivability is completely different from the way it was when it was just Alternative Automotive's tune. Oh and the 3rd to 4th shift, its like 4th gear is completely powerless........ What do you guys think? How is Lidio's 4.10 program SUPPOSED to drive? *oh and the idle sometimes drops to 500 RPM**





First off if your MM is mostly stock with just bolt ons and some other very minor things… the A/F didn’t need any tweaking what so ever at WOT. The only reason other tuners may have felt that it needed to be tweaked is that they’re using a tail pipe type sensor most likley, not the type we use that requires a new o2 provision in the exhaust as close to the manifold or header as possible or use a stock o2 fitting, which I don’t like to do for drivability reasons. I found that MM’s with very little done to them still maintain the stock A/F at WOT which is about 13 to 1 and is fine.

Secondly theirs no way your other dyno tuner guy made only one or two changes to the tune that came with your Xcal with out loosing or totally over writing the tune that was originally supplied with your Xcal.
The only way he could have made minor tweaks to the existing tune in the Xcal would have been if he created the tune in the first place and kept it in his data base or if some how he could dump the contents of an Xcal and then save the file to his laptop and then proceed to manipulate the file/tune that was supplied in the Xcal.

If he was able to dump the tune or read the tune in the Xcal which I doubt, then SCT has supplied him with some thing that all other SCT dealers (including myself) do not have and are not supposed to have from my under standing. I would say that the tune you’ve now ended up with is some thing completely different then the one that was in the Xcal when you got it new and this would explain why the trans shifting characteristics are different.

I own and operate a chassis dyno all day long and the tune that we’ve developed for N/A MM’s fixes a lot of stock tuning shortcomings and flaws in a few places pretty good. But to say that you need a dyno tune to really optimize a MM to really get the most out of it is an exaggeration. The A/F isn’t gona make that big of a deal going from lets say 12.5 to 1 or as lean as 13.5 to 1 at WOT. So once this is set which it is OK stock… really all you need to do is push the ignition timing as far as you can with your locally avaible fuels. And detonation can’t be heard real well on a chassis dyno any way unless its blatantly severe and grossly over advanced timing and a very quite car. And I don’t put much stock in the knock sensors if that’s what your tuner looked at.

If your happy with your new tune… great. Other wise if there are some carterisitcs that you prefer about your old tune, you‘ll need to return it for a reburn.



Thanks

[Reaper948]

First off if your MM is mostly stock with just bolt ons and some other very minor things… the A/F didn’t need any tweaking what so ever at WOT. The only reason other tuners may have felt that it needed to be tweaked is that they’re using a tail pipe type sensor most likley, not the type we use that requires a new o2 provision in the exhaust as close to the manifold or header as possible or use a stock o2 fitting, which I don’t like to do for drivability reasons. I found that MM’s with very little done to them still maintain the stock A/F at WOT which is about 13 to 1 and is fine.

Secondly theirs no way your other dyno tuner guy made only one or two changes to the tune that came with your Xcal with out loosing or totally over writing the tune that was originally supplied with your Xcal.
The only way he could have made minor tweaks to the existing tune in the Xcal would have been if he created the tune in the first place and kept it in his data base or if some how he could dump the contents of an Xcal and then save the file to his laptop and then proceed to manipulate the file/tune that was supplied in the Xcal.

If he was able to dump the tune or read the tune in the Xcal which I doubt, then SCT has supplied him with some thing that all other SCT dealers (including myself) do not have and are not supposed to have from my under standing. I would say that the tune you’ve now ended up with is some thing completely different then the one that was in the Xcal when you got it new and this would explain why the trans shifting characteristics are different.

I own and operate a chassis dyno all day long and the tune that we’ve developed for N/A MM’s fixes a lot of stock tuning shortcomings and flaws in a few places pretty good. But to say that you need a dyno tune to really optimize a MM to really get the most out of it is an exaggeration. The A/F isn’t gona make that big of a deal going from lets say 12.5 to 1 or as lean as 13.5 to 1 at WOT. So once this is set which it is OK stock… really all you need to do is push the ignition timing as far as you can with your locally avaible fuels. And detonation can’t be heard real well on a chassis dyno any way unless its blatantly severe and grossly over advanced timing and a very quite car. And I don’t put much stock in the knock sensors if that’s what your tuner looked at.

If your happy with your new tune… great. Other wise if there are some carterisitcs that you prefer about your old tune, you‘ll need to return it for a reburn.
Thanks

...The only reason I asked for the AF tune was because I had put in the JLT intake. I remember you telling me there was no point in tuning the AF with just the exhaust - but I kept hearing about AF tuning bringing out more power because they wanted to optimize their new intakes, so I wanted it. But I don't know how your program will work with that new AF if I send it to you to reburn my xcal. (?)