Blown oil pan and both valve cover gaskets blown

[LVMarauder]

You might ask how? I took my car down to the dealer because I thought it had an oil pan gasket leak. The service manager calls me back and says I have an oil pan, both valve covers and some other gasket blown and leaking oil. He says it because I installed a JLT intake and the PVC breather was actually a vacuum and very important in relieving pressure from the crackcase so the oil had no choice but to blow the gaskets out? Anyone else here/ now about this and not post it? thanks.

[Smokie]

You might ask how? I took my car down to the dealer because I thought it had an oil pan gasket leak. The service manager calls me back and says I have an oil pan, both valve covers and some other gasket blown and leaking oil. He says it because I installed a JLT intake and the PVC breather was actually a vacuum and very important in relieving pressure from the crackcase so the oil had no choice but to blow the gaskets out? Anyone else here/ now about this and not post it? thanks.The JLT intake tube doesn't change the vacuum your engine creates in the intake tube, if there was a crankcase ventilation problem, it would be caused by the PCV valve. Other have the JLT with no such problems, it is just another dealer blaming aftermarket parts for whatever goes wrong with car.

[torinodan]

The JLT intake tube doesn't change the vacuum your engine creates in the intake tube, if there was a crankcase ventilation problem, it would be caused by the PCV valve. Other have the JLT with no such problems, it is just another dealer blaming aftermarket parts for whatever goes wrong with car.I'm calling the same :bs: Did they show you the "BLOWN OUT" gaskets? I thought these were the reuseable ones that had a metal core in them that makes them reusable? Still sounds like :bs:

[Rider90]

Atleast they are only gaskets.

[grampaws]

The PCV system is required for emissions it vent crankcase fumes into the

intake to burn the fumes..if this system is plugged.pressures can build up
and blow gaskets..All engines are vented in some way to relieve this pressure.
If you have plugged or blocked of hese vents you would have created your
Leak problem..If you vented it properly to the intake from the rocker cover
and the PCV valve is still in place then it is the dealers problem and it should still
be warrantied...if the JLT intake is connected properly the vent hose should
be connected(all new intakes include the vent hose)..does this help??
unless you have purposely disabled and plugged these vents.the dealer is
full of it!!

[CRUZTAKER]

The JLT intake tube doesn't change the vacuum your engine creates in the intake tube, LV...clear something up for us first...

JLT did offer another part with their kit. A replacement pcv breather cap/filter. It was used if one deleted the hose from the intake tube to crankcase.

Did you do this? If so, they have a leg to stand on. There was a long discussion here about those old school shiney breather caps we once all used on the older carburated motors. The consensus concluded that we should likely not delete that hose from our intake tube to valve cover with one of these.

[torinodan]

LV...clear something up for us first...

JLT did offer another part with their kit. A replacement pcv breather cap/filter. It was used if one deleted the hose from the intake tube to crankcase.

Did you do this? If so, they have a leg to stand on. There was a long discussion here about those old school shiney breather caps we once all used on the older carburated motors. The consensus concluded that we should likely not delete that hose from our intake tube to valve cover with one of these.Now that is a real good question you got there?

[FordNut]

Did the pcv valve get removed? It is on the passenger side and connects between the intake manifold and the valve cover. If that's connected it doesn't matter (as far as crankcase pressure) where the other valve cover is connected (intake tube, breather, etc.). However, if the pcv valve is still connected and a breather is installed on the other side it can cause problems in that the engine is drawing in unmetered air (didn't go thru the MAF sensor).

BUT, since the intake tube is aftermarket, the dealer can blame it. Maybe it's BS but that's the way it is.

[Bradley G]

Get a second opinon, have the shop , show you what is leaking.
Have them write it down for you and report back.

[grampaws]

as long as there is a vent the crankcase pressures should not build up
enough to damage the gaskets..this vent is for air to enter the block..
the PCV valve side is vaccum to draw of the fumes and is not altered
by most CAI systems..the vent cap should relieve pressure if the PCV gets
plugged(unlikely and should still be warrantied)..As long as the install
followed the instructions its installation will not cause your problem..
wash engine snug up the cover bolts and drive for a couple of days
recheck and it will probably be loose bolts..might not even have to replace
any gaskets..Are they leaking or blown out??

LV...clear something up for us first...

JLT did offer another part with their kit. A replacement pcv breather cap/filter. It was used if one deleted the hose from the intake tube to crankcase.

Did you do this? If so, they have a leg to stand on. There was a long discussion here about those old school shiney breather caps we once all used on the older carburated motors. The consensus concluded that we should likely not delete that hose from our intake tube to valve cover with one of these.

[DEFYANT]

I learned the hard way.

I bought the JLT with the little breather A/F thing. My car ran like ***** because the unmetered air situation mentioned above. I promptly modded the JLT to accept the PCV hose.

If you modified the crank case vent system (..to keep the oil out of the intake?) you may be stuck.

[FordNut]

If our guessing about the pcv system being bypassed is correct, I would suggest getting the car back and re-connecting the pcv system properly to see if the leakage stops. Putting vacuum back on the crankcase may solve the leakage problem. Clean up the engine really well just to see. If the leakage doesn't stop, put all the stock stuff back on and take it to a different dealer (assuming the car is still under warranty AND the current dealer doesn't void the warranty for you).

[SergntMac]

Wow...The coincidence here is spooky! I'm working on problem right now!

Everyone who went to Gainsville last Saturday, got a chance to see what a screwed up PCV system looks like on a race track. Everyone there, including track officials, thought I blew my engine in the traps. Clouds of smoke, and a tiny tiny squirt of oil out of the valve cover. Not enough to call a leak, but enough to light up when it hits hot pipes. Under normal crankcase pressure, nothing to look at, nothing to trace, but at 6200 RPM/120MPH, a waterfall...

It's fixed now (I think), but the cause is completely my fault. About a month ago, Zack and I changed over from a blow through MAF, to a suck through. This left the driver's side PCV hose with no place to go, and taking the advice of a professional Ford wrench and seasoned race car builder, I attached a simple PCV valve to a push in breather (yes, like the old days) and let her rip.

Over the 1100 mile trip to FL., I needed to add one quart of oil. I should have taken a hint here, but I didn't. Just before going to the track at Gainsville, I changed the oil and filter, and didn't clean the frame as good as I thought.

I wanted my first pass down the track to be a "street trim" pass, street tires, pump gas and tune. I knew I would go nowhere fast in ETs, but I wanted this index anyway. First pass, 14.10/110 MPH, this MM comes on very strong with proper traction. At the timing shack, I got pulled down by officials. After some discussion, I returned to my pit and some of y'all came over and wondered if I blew something. All I could do is shrug, everything seemed fine.

More discussion with officials and I went off to clean my engine bay, the residue of my oil change indicated I was blowing oil on the track, in "their not so humble opinion." That done, back to the water box, still in street trim.

I wanted to see what was happening, and I asked Claude (Carfixer) to pilot. He did several burnouts for the officials, no leaks, no smoke. Claude went on to make a pass, and we all saw it. Tons of smoke coming blowing out of the car when Claude got up off the throttle in the traps. Serious smoke, blown engine looking smoke.

Found a drop of oil on the frame which suggests a pin hole leak that could become a water hose leak under crankcase pressure. Numbers wiped, nothing I could do about it until I get home. I lost a quart of oil somewhere in this, and used another quart on the way home. The following Tuesday, Zack and I attacked this with another plan.

The breather wasn't breathing at all, I used a cheap aftermarket PCV valve, not the suggested Ford FV-111 for supercharged engines. My second error was relying on the crankcase pressure to vent on it's own. It does not, not very well anyway. So, we routed a 3/8" hose from the driver's side vent, around the back of the engine and into the upper intake manifold. Then we added a vent to the intake elbow before the supercharger, and routed the passenger PCV here, again with 3/8" hose. Now, instead of just letting the crankcase vent, I'm sucking gasses out.

We also completed a leak-down test to see if there was any damage, or other concerns causing, or, resulting in this "blue smoke at shut down" problem. Everything seems okay, all I can do is monitor from here.

I had a JLT intake on my MM for a while, I wasn't pleased with it. But, I recall that there are several ways to install it, depending on your particular MM. I suppose LV could have made decisions similar to my choices, and that could blow gaskets if left unattended. OTOH, I'm not full of trust for dealership wrenches, the advice I took came from one, and look what it got me.

[Warpath]

We got into this last time. So, I'll only state that if you are supercharged and keep the stock PCV system, check it occasionally for oil build up. There are some Mustang owners who have experienced the supercharger sucking oil out through the PCV hoses (or they have more blow by). Perhaps MM oil baffling is better.

[MENINBLK]

Would the Steeda Oil Separater kit help this problem out ?

[David Morton]

If our guessing about the pcv system being bypassed is correct, I would suggest getting the car back and re-connecting the pcv system properly to see if the leakage stops. Putting vacuum back on the crankcase may solve the leakage problem. Clean up the engine really well just to see. If the leakage doesn't stop, put all the stock stuff back on and take it to a different dealer (assuming the car is still under warranty AND the current dealer doesn't void the warranty for you).Fordnut has some good advice here. Clean 'er up after you fix it (Spray on some Simple Green and hose 'er off) and then spray some Dr. Scholls foot powder directly on the suspected leak areas. Even a slow leak will show up fairly quickly making the powder turn dark.

Leak tracing powder bought at auto parts store- $8

Foot powder bought at Walgreens- $2 (and it leaves a fresh clean scent.) :lol:

[Warpath]

It should on N/A engines. I'm not sure about S/C engines. If Steeda's claims are true, then it will on s/c engines too.

I bought Steeda's kit but then changed my mind. The passenger head PCV would be attached to the s/c intake and the drivers head attached to the intake hat through a pcv valve. PCV system works by drawing air from the intake tubing into the passenger head, through the block, out the drivers head, and into the intake hat. There is a vacuum in the intake and the intake tubing (on a N/A engine) is at atmospheric pressure. I wasn't sure whether the s/c intake was at a lower than crancase and still suck out oil at times. So, I left in the breathers.

The Steeda kit only contains an oil seperator, some rubber tubing, and some platic fitings. You run the seperator in series between the hat and pcv valve. You could get the parts from Home Depot for cheaper probably.

[DirtyDog]

If there is enough pressure inside the engine to blow a casket, the dip stick is going to come out also. Just my opion.

[SergntMac]

Tried some real world testing on my rearrangement of hoses and valves. So far, so good. Took my MM out on my "private track" and wound her up to 6200 RPM in 3rd gear, and got out of the throttle as I would on the race track. Nothing, no blue smoke that I could see, and surely not anything near the smoke at Gainsville. Fingers crossed, I hope this is the cure.

[grampaws]

This can happen and has!


If there is enough pressure inside the engine to blow a casket, the dip stick is going to come out also. Just my opion.

[DirtyDog]

This can happen and has!

I'm only speaking of this engine, not engines in general. Our dip sticks have an air tight seal, under pressure it will come out.

[grampaws]

Main seal,rocker covers and oil pans are most susceptable to

damage..but most often the oil dipsticks will pop out...my experience
with large desiel engine is the dipsticks will pop out and have been
known to completely dissappear..of course usually a major fault with
the engine such as a hole in a piston or bad rings blowing compressed
air into the crankcase..and more common on boosted engines IE turbos/S/C's.
In this case I would suspect loose bolts..rather than excess crankcase
pressure..It is possible to have a build up of pressure to blow out the
gaskets. I believe it unlikely if the pcv system if functioning and it would
likely pop the dipstick before the gaskets fail..

[CRUZTAKER]

LV never replied....I wonder why?

[Pat]

LV Marauder, where are you???

Lot's of help, advice, questions on the thread, shows we are very interested in your problem. You asked, the membership responded, additional info was requested, the ball is in your court.

[GreekGod]

Thought I'd mention my long-ago dipstick experience-my 428 was pushing the dipstick up. It was caused by excess valvestem clearance allowing combustion to leak into the crankcase and pressurize it. A few years ago the aluminum PI intake manifold started leaking exhaust gas into the crankcase account the exhaust crossover corroded out/eaten away. Not likely experiences with a 4.6 MM but just shows the kind of troubles that can occur that are never mentioned in a shop manual (or with aftermarket mods).

[LVMarauder]

I've been busy with school so I havent had time to check on this thread. But to clear some things up.

The oil dipstick has never popped out and the overal leaking effect doesnt cuase a stading pools but more of a constant slow drip over time.I also did not use my nitrous system yet, I was waiting to get this leak fixed first. I did buy the optional filter breather that goes over the drivers side head back side that once connected the PCV tube. The tube has been on there the whole time. They never showed me anything blown apart. I am geting my stock parts shipped back. And I am going to modify the intake to accept the OEM tube, clean up the engine and pray the gaskets miraculously reseal. If not ill take it to a dealer in Vegas, my service manager in SB seems real mellow so I dont think he red flagged me. Ill update again after I get the tube in and steam clean the engine

[BillyGman]

Both Cruztaker, and FordNut have good and applicable points here, and I suggest you listen to what they've told you. I'm not sure that I fully understand your description of this intake set-up, and exactly how it alters the PCV system. However, what I can tell you for certain is that I've learned the hard way with another car I used to have that you cannot delete the PCV set-up, nor replace it with a breather (if that's what you did).


Many guys think that as long as you have a breather on the valve covers, that excess pressure will not be built up in the crankcase( I once bought into that theory too), but that just is NOT true. There needs to be a vacume in the crankcase in order to avoid pressure build up. Merely venting it, is NOT enough. I had a Vette that I tried using breathers on instead of the PCV valve, and despite having a breather on each valve cover, I kept on blowing the rear intake manifold gasket. I replaced it myself twice because of oil leaking out of it, and at first I couldn't figure out why that was happening. Until someone told me about the need for the PCV valve to avoid that problem. So as soon as I put the PCV valve back on the valve cover (with the breather left on the other valve cover), and hooked the PCV hose to a vacume source in order to create a vacume in the engine while it was running, the problem vanished.

CONCLUSION: breathers are NOT enough to prevent gaskets from being blown from excessive crankcase pressures. You need to have a vacume source to draw out the pressure from the crankcase. Simply venting the crankcase is NOT enough.

[grampaws]

I did check the dipstick..and after a couple of days of not checking

it, the dipstick rubber sticks and would not necessarily
in this case pop out..
before leaking past the gaskets..I do agree with billygman the PCV
valve and vaccum is necessary to reduce CC pessures...But I do
know of many engines with breather caps (PCV vacuum side still
connected) that don't have this problem...a free flowing vent cap
and maintaining the Vaccum PCV valve is important to the SEAL life
on the engine..He has correctly stated using 'only' a vent cap will
cause gasket problems..

[Warpath]

I did check the dipstick..and after a couple of days of not checking

it, the dipstick rubber sticks and would not necessarily
in this case pop out..
before leaking past the gaskets..I do agree with billygman the PCV
valve and vaccum is necessary to reduce CC pessures...But I do
know of many engines with breather caps (PCV vacuum side still
connected) that don't have this problem...a free flowing vent cap
and maintaining the Vaccum PCV valve is important to the SEAL life
on the engine..He has correctly stated using 'only' a vent cap will
cause gasket problems..

If I understand your post correctly, you're stating its OK to hook one head to the intake through the PCV and the other to a breather. It is in fact not OK to do so since unmetered air will be drawn into the intake through the CC and lean out the engine.

We went through these discussion previously. So, I won't reiterate everything discussed and since I'm not an expert myself. But, I've had advice from engine builders stating that it is bad not to have breathers since the oil drawn from the heads will decrease octane and lead to detonation. I've had other engine builders tell me they don't like them, but, they're not detrimental if done correctly. I've read plenty of posts of Mustang owners running breathers for a long time without any problems other than odor. So, my advice is to leave it in and check it constantly for oil build up. If you find it, switch to an oil seperator or breathers.

[David Morton]

PCV was the first emissions device required by the federal government and the manufacturers squealed like stuck pigs all the way till passage, said it would cost jobs and increase the cost of the cars. Vents were oiling up the engine compartments but some higher end cars had "road draft" tubes that took the oily vapors down to the road under the engine.

What the consumers got instead was a cleaner environment and a longer lasting engine. The oily vapors keep the intake valve stems, top piston rings and upper cylinders lubricated better. Anybody that wants to delete the PCV or modify it to put on neat looking vent breathers doesn't fully understand what they're losing and the problems they are creating. Vent breathers let unfiltered air enter the engine when the PCV is left on so if you want sand in your PCV equipped engine, put on a nice chrome breather from Dummit Racing.

The PCV is a win-win emissions device. Nobody loses except the Devil, so don't mess with it!

[wsmylie]

Well said David!:bows:... BTW, I remember the old road draft tubes your talking about my friend. Turned into nasty, greasy/dirty affairs once the car started to get some mileage on it. t
PCV was the first emissions device required by the federal government and the manufacturers squealed like stuck pigs all the way till passage, said it would cost jobs and increase the cost of the cars. Vents were oiling up the engine compartments but some higher end cars had "road draft" tubes that took the oily vapors down to the road under the engine.

What the consumers got instead was a cleaner environment and a longer lasting engine. The oily vapors keep the intake valve stems, top piston rings and upper cylinders lubricated better. Anybody that wants to delete the PCV or modify it to put on neat looking vent breathers doesn't fully understand what they're losing and the problems they are creating. Vent breathers let unfiltered air enter the engine when the PCV is left on so if you want sand in your PCV equipped engine, put on a nice chrome breather from Dummit Racing.

The PCV is a win-win emissions device. Nobody loses except the Devil, so don't mess with it!

[grampaws]

I am obviously not clear on my description..the PCV valve must be maintained
it does meter the air from the rocker cover to the intake manifold and it is correct
un metered air will lean out fuel Mixture causing detonation(pinging) problems..therefore running as though the octane was lower...
The PCV valve and connections to the intake/manifold must remain funtional..
this is located on the Passenger side rocker cover..
The drivers side rocker cover can use a vent cap to draw in fresh air..or in certain instances relieve excess CC pressure..The cap must contain a filter and must be cleaned regularly..
Air will pass from the drivers side rocker cover down to the crankcase and back up to the passenger side rocker cover...air/fumes pass through the
metered PCV valve into the intake manifold and burned with the
normal fuel/air mixture..This is a typical PCV system used since the
late 70's
Using just a breather will cause fumes and odor under the hood.And will cause engine damage IE gaskets if it becomes plugged..removing the PCV valve and
plugging the Vaccum lines will lead to an altered fuel mixture and can affect
CC pressures..Plugging both the PCV (pass side)and the breather (Drivers
side) is and absolute NO NO!!and will damage the engine and seals..
In short the CC must be Vented. How is up to the individual and the Emissions
Standards set out for New vehicles...


If I understand your post correctly, you're stating its OK to hook one head to the intake through the PCV and the other to a breather. It is in fact not OK to do so since unmetered air will be drawn into the intake through the CC and lean out the engine.
We went through these discussion previously. So, I won't reiterate everything discussed and since I'm not an expert myself. But, I've had advice from engine builders stating that it is bad not to have breathers since the oil drawn from the heads will decrease octane and lead to detonation. I've had other engine builders tell me they don't like them, but, they're not detrimental if done correctly. I've read plenty of posts of Mustang owners running breathers for a long time without any problems other than odor. So, my advice is to leave it in and check it constantly for oil build up. If you find it, switch to an oil seperator or breathers.

[David Morton]

Not trying to be argumentative Grampaws but I don't see why anybody wants to open up the can of worms you're talking about unless they're ill informed or are so enamored of an old fashioned breather that they want all that extra hassle. I'm posting this further clarification so others don't make the mistake it's beginning to look like you have. If you haven't done this mod (putting a PCV vent on your valve cover), fine, but if you have, try not to take offense. Be teachable and learn from a Master Tech that's been to the factory schools that know the whole system because they designed it. Restore the original function of your PCV system.

Ours and most cars' PCV systems' vents come from already well filtered air taken from in-between the MAF sensor (so MAF can have an accurate account of all the air going into the engine) and the throttle body, through a long enough pipe to condense most of the oily vapors and return that oil back to the engine. Even a new engine puffs out more blow-by than the PCV valve can take in under certain conditions. If you gotta chrome something, chrome the pipe! Don't try to re-engineer so you can have a modern engine with an old-fashioned breather hat sticking out of your valve cover. The last thing you want is oily vapors puffing out inside the engine compartment. These vapors will accelerate the deterioration of the belt and hoses, even in small amounts.

That plus the air going into Dummit Racings' cool chrome high-tech filtered vent is unmetered by the MAF sensor! And before you ask, yes, the factory tune assumes the PCV system is letting in air that has been metered by the MAF sensor, as well as a calculated amount of blow-by gases. I wish to reiterate what Warpath stated, in another way, so it can't be misunderstood. A breather lets in air that has not been metered by the MAF sensor and the factory tune assumes it has.

The only drawback to our system is that the throttle body can get dirty from that puffing over time because the tube isn't long enough, but that isn't a major hassle. Just take the intake tube off at the throttle body every 20,000 or so and clean the throttle body. Carb cleaner works well, just give it time to evaporate before you button it up.

Any amount of explaining won't convince me I should do any modifications to the PCV system on my car, except the one I mentioned. And I recommend to anybody that has, to look at this information and ask themselves if they really want unmetered air going into their engine and sometimes oily vapors condensing inside their engine bay. If you can smell an oily odor, some damage is being done.

Excuse the rant if you will. I suppose Bret Farve gets a little peeved when some fan gives him his advice about football when it's obvious to Bret the guy is just an armchair quarterback that thinks he knows everything about football. This is an ill-advised mod in my learned opinion.

[grampaws]

I welcome your input..I have not and have no intention of using
a breather cap.I did not recommend using one and never have..
my intention was to relay mods will alter the fuel mixture delivered
to the engine..AND plugging or removing these components can have
detrimental effect on the engine...
I did say..
The PCV valve and connections to the intake/manifold must remain funtional..
The original thread was to discuss damage caused by crankcase pressures
built up because of altered PCV systems and not all the fuel/air metering
issues caused by altering this system...
"If you gotta chrome something, chrome the pipe! "
Chroming rubber what a interesting Idea!
Bret farve (whoever he is!!)..:rolleyes:

[GreekGod]

I too was a little confused by an apparent conflicting statement:"The drivers side rocker cover can use a vent cap to draw in fresh air..or in certain instances relieve excess CC pressure..The cap must contain a filter and must be cleaned regularly.." which seemed to recomend a mod to an MM system.

[David Morton]

Yup, Greek God, I was thinking the same thing.

And grampaws, I guess you must feel stung by my post. Since you try to make others think I'm stupid enough to mean to chrome a piece of rubber instead of the implied reference to the topic of replacing something with a chromed item, hence getting a chromed piece of pipe, I guess you must think I owe you an apology.

[grampaws]

stung not likely...just how something reads is not necessarily..

how it is intended.Its an open forum and anyone with an ounce of
intelligence will sort out the relevant details...missunderstandings
are common here...sort of like diagnosing a car over the phone...
Even if this thread gets someone to investigate the consequences
before throwing away some pipe that looks insignificant.
This thread has served its purpose..
Thanks for the input..

[GreekGod]

We must be very careful, specific, and detailed when talking about modifications, especially engine, chassis, emissions, and other such critical engineering issues. Swapping out the factory speakers, not such a big deal. When Mr. Morton critiques a posting in great detail it helps clarify the confusion. I'm always reminded of the sayings : "the more I learn, the more I find out I don't know" and (A Clint Eastwood charactor) : "a man's got to know his limits". A developed, proven chassis like our Panther platform has been so (relatively) well evolved it is difficult to "improve" it without screwing something up. Witness the resent postings on lowering the rear ride hight for "better" cornering and handling. A MM was lowered so far it was riding on the rubber bumpstops! Sure, it stayed level on the high speed corners, but the ride grew a little harsh. If those same corners had a washboard surface, that MM could have wheel-hopped or bounced out of control. A big danger of mods is the "re-inventing the wheel" syndrome. I have a little experience working on Fords. My "progression" goes something like this: 1959 Galaxie, 1961 Ford 4dr, 1962 Sunliner, 1963 Galaxie, 1965 Custom 4dr, 1967 LTD, 1968 F100, 1966 XL, 1979 F150 4x4, 1983 Fairmont, 1985 Crown Vic, 1996 Contour, 1993 Gran Marquis, and now my 2003 MM. They have all, from my viewpoint, been progressively better built and easier to work on. It's interesting (when working on them) to compare the 1993 Gran Marquis to the 2003 MM and see how they figured out how to improve the same platform in the 10 year span without going outside the original design boundaries. That is one reason I prefer the American/Euro design philosophy of "developing" as opposed to the (typically) Asian style of "designing" with a clean sheet of paper.

[David Morton]

Glad you're not upset grampaws. Perhaps you were just making a funny.


BTW, Bret Favre is the corect speling of the name of the grate quaturback cheezhed. Wiscounsen? Grean Bey? Pakers?

:lol:

[grampaws]

Not really a funny but pointing out how it reads was not

how it was intended...sometimes the best of intentions can
lost with a simple oversight..
As I have no interest in baseball,hockey,football or wrestling
The name has no meaning to me..

[Dave Compson]

So.... Dave..(lvmarauder) did you ever get your car fixed? Is everything ok now?

[LVMarauder]

So.... Dave..(lvmarauder) did you ever get your car fixed? Is everything ok now?

I got my PCV tube a few days ago, still need to drill a whole into the JLT tube so it will accept one end. Then ill pulg the other end back in OEM style, seal with something. Wash it and see if the leak goes away.

[RF Overlord]

As I have no interest in baseball,hockey,football or wrestlingGeez...I thought I was the only living American male who didn't care about those sports...nice to know I've got company. :D

[GreekGod]

Professional wrestling is real.

[Warpath]

We must be very careful, specific, and detailed when talking about modifications, especially engine, chassis, emissions, and other such critical engineering issues. Swapping out the factory speakers, not such a big deal. When Mr. Morton critiques a posting in great detail it helps clarify the confusion. I'm always reminded of the sayings : "the more I learn, the more I find out I don't know" and (A Clint Eastwood charactor) : "a man's got to know his limits". A developed, proven chassis like our Panther platform has been so (relatively) well evolved it is difficult to "improve" it without screwing something up. Witness the resent postings on lowering the rear ride hight for "better" cornering and handling. A MM was lowered so far it was riding on the rubber bumpstops! Sure, it stayed level on the high speed corners, but the ride grew a little harsh. If those same corners had a washboard surface, that MM could have wheel-hopped or bounced out of control. A big danger of mods is the "re-inventing the wheel" syndrome. I have a little experience working on Fords. My "progression" goes something like this: 1959 Galaxie, 1961 Ford 4dr, 1962 Sunliner, 1963 Galaxie, 1965 Custom 4dr, 1967 LTD, 1968 F100, 1966 XL, 1979 F150 4x4, 1983 Fairmont, 1985 Crown Vic, 1996 Contour, 1993 Gran Marquis, and now my 2003 MM. They have all, from my viewpoint, been progressively better built and easier to work on. It's interesting (when working on them) to compare the 1993 Gran Marquis to the 2003 MM and see how they figured out how to improve the same platform in the 10 year span without going outside the original design boundaries. That is one reason I prefer the American/Euro design philosophy of "developing" as opposed to the (typically) Asian style of "designing" with a clean sheet of paper.

Well put. If you look under the "Asian" vehicles, you will find a lot of simularitites between their vehicles. That is one reason why they can produce less expensive vehicles. They are very good at communizing parts which saves money and very good at making engineering compromizes where most customers won't notice. Most of their vehicles are MacPherson strut in the front.

[Marauderjack]

All very interesting especially since I am about to do a S/Cer install!!:beer:

The PCV valve Mac speaks of (FV-111) is evidently a Ford part but I cannot find one searching parts by number on several sites!!!:mad2:

Anyone have the original application so I can order one??:confused:

Thanks!!

Marauderjack:burnout:

[FordNut]

All very interesting especially since I am about to do a S/Cer install!!:beer:

The PCV valve Mac speaks of (FV-111) is evidently a Ford part but I cannot find one searching parts by number on several sites!!!:mad2:

Anyone have the original application so I can order one??:confused:

Thanks!!

Marauderjack:burnout:
Not FV-111, it's EV-111, part number E0TZ-6A666-A

[grampaws]

autos/computers/my Puppies and the females what else is there??
Funny! the Wife and Daughter Know more about those
sports than I do..It's good to know there is someone else
out there..

Geez...I thought I was the only living American male who didn't care about those sports...nice to know I've got company. :D

[Marauderjack]

Thanks Brian.....

Do you have any idea what the original application is for the EV-111?? I looked it up at Rock Auto Parts.com and they have it but no photo!!

Is it a grommet type or one that may plug into the existing place on our cars??

Marauderjack:D

[BillyGman]

I've merely read the first page of this thread because we've all been into this topic before in other threads. But all is I want to add here, is that there shouldn't be a problem with oil leaks merely because a Marauder is S/Ced (as somebody in this thread has mentioned a concern about).

I've put 26,000 miles on my Marauder since I installed the Trilogy S/Cer, and I've never had any problems with gasket failures nor oil leaks yet. And I drive the car real hard on a daily basis. I'm into the boost every day. Aside from that, I also want to add, that if the oil was leaking from the valve covers as well as from the oil pan, something was definately going on with the crankcase pressure building up due to improper pressure relief. And having reuseable gaskets has nothing to do with that. If the crankcase pressure is excessive, then the oil will push through gaskets regardless of what type they are, or what they're made of. The pressure build-up will take the path of least resistence, and gasket seals offer less resistence than cylinder walls do. So I wouldn't be too quick to claim that the dealer is wrong.

Whether an engine is carbureted or fuel injected, you either need a PCV valve at work, or valve cover vents that are plumbed to one way check valves that have been welded into exhaust header collectors like the racers do. Unless it was stricly a trailer queen quartermile car that wasn't used for street driving at all. That would be the only way you can get away with just a breather and nothing else, and still be assured of avoiding excessive pressure build-up in the crankcase. And that goes for N/A engines as well as S/Ced engines.

[SergntMac]

Not FV-111, it's EV-111, part number E0TZ-6A666-A Yep, that's correct, my bad too. Sorry I didn't catch this myself.

I've merely read the first page of this thread because we've all been into this topic before in other threads. But all is I want to add here, is that there shouldn't be a problem with oil leaks merely because a Marauder is S/Ced (as somebody in this thread has mentioned a concern about). You're correct, shouldn't be oil leaks anywhere, but I do have one concern still growing, and I continue to monitor conditions.

My concern is for the sucking force of a centrifugal blower at WOT, which seems to be a bit more aggressive than just acting as a vacume driven vent. WOT may indeed overpower the PCV valve on this side, and it's an OEM spec valve here, not the EV-111 from early Cobras and T-Bird supercoupes. Could be that 14-16 PSI of boost is sucking oil from the crankcase here, and mixing it with the air fuel charge after the MAF function, in WOT conditions. If this is the case, there is a fix for it.

[BillyGman]

Yep, that's correct, my bad too. Sorry I didn't catch this myself.
You're correct, shouldn't be oil leaks anywhere, but I do have one concern still growing, and I continue to monitor conditions.

My concern is for the sucking force of a centrifugal blower at WOT, which seems to be a bit more aggressive than just acting as a vacume driven vent. WOT may indeed overpower the PCV valve on this side, and it's an OEM spec valve here, not the EV-111 from early Cobras and T-Bird supercoupes. Could be that 14-16 PSI of boost is sucking oil from the crankcase here, and mixing it with the air fuel charge after the MAF function, in WOT conditions. If this is the case, there is a fix for it.Maybe for people who are running that much boost pressure (14-16 PSI) it would be better to do what some drag race car owners do....eliminate the PCV valve, and use a vent on each valave cover with a hose on each one that goes to a one way check valve that's welded into each header collector. that will relieve the pressure in the crankcase, and create a vacume. They sell those one way valves for the header collectors in Summit racing, and I believe that they also come with the hoses and the valve cover vents all together as a kit. If anyone is interested, I can supply a link, but again, I don't think it would be needed unless you're running atleast 14 PSI of boost pressure.

[DEFYANT]

So this is basically a problem for the centrifical S/Cer system since the intake manifold is presurized with boost where it was designed to be vacuum... correct?

Unless you run the PCV to a point in front of the blower, you could presurize the PCV system and force boost into the crank case... correct?

Is that what the PVC "EV-111, part number E0TZ-6A666-A" would prevent?

[BillyGman]

So this is basically a problem for the centrifical S/Cer system since the intake manifold is presurized with boost where it was designed to be vacuum... correct?

But the intake manifold is presurized with boost on the Roots type Trilogy system too, and I haven't ever had any problems, so I think that it must have more to do with the amount of boost pressure you're running rather than the type of Supercharger you choose. That's why I mentioned before that if you're running 14 LBS of boost or more, perhaps this becomes an issue.

[Warpath]

I share Mac's concerns. Normally, the PCV system on the intake tubing side is essentially always at atmospheric pressure. The other side - valve side - is between vacuum and atmospheric on a N/A engine. Therefore, the air in the crank case always travels from the tubing through the case through the valve and into the intake except at WOT where pressure on both sides is essentially equal. However, a blower with the PCV system attached to the intake of the S/C, I'm concerned that when boost builds, oil is sucked out and through the S/C since that side of the S/C will be in a vacuum. That is an assumption which I never proved out yet. But, I put in breathers to prevent the oil from being sucked in.

[DEFYANT]

But the intake manifold is presurized with boost on the Roots type Trilogy system too, and I haven't ever had any problems, so I think that it must have more to do with the amount of boost pressure you're running rather than the type of Supercharger you choose. That's why I mentioned before that if you're running 14 LBS of boost or more, perhaps this becomes an issue.

The Roots system (our system) plumbs the vacuum lines to the vacuum side of the S/Cer.

The Centrificals use the stock upper intake, an area originally designed to be a vacuum, and force boost into it. With a presurized intake, could the PVC system fail and force the boost into the crank case through the left cam cover?

[TooManyFords]

Depends on the kit. The FIT ProChargers also plumb both sides to the vacuum side of the S/C and plug the upper intake.

I can see why too!

john

[Warpath]

The Roots system (our system) plumbs the vacuum lines to the vacuum side of the S/Cer.

The Centrificals use the stock upper intake, an area originally designed to be a vacuum, and force boost into it. With a presurized intake, could the PVC system fail and force the boost into the crank case through the left cam cover?

Yes, but I think the air would travel passed the PVC through the case and into the S/C intake. So, I don't think it would be presurized now that I think about it. It may still blow oil into the intake though.

[LVMarauder]

Here is an update for everyone. I succesfully made the repair a few weeks ago. The leak is not fixed, however, it is about 10% of what it used to be. Im still going to have to get the engine out and replace the gaskets before I use my Zex Kit but at least it will make it tell im back in Vegas at the dealer.

I've never said anything about JLT up to this point ( i think ) but they really need to address and stress how critical the PCV tube is so no one else has to do what I did.